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You probably don't want to hear this but I always thought that fragon fof was the problem not the mass. Atleast there is an explanation for the high mass, but then explain how these "stick to the ground" boots can go like speedy gonzarlous? Remove FoF, and suddenly fragons aren't quite so unkillable. For one thing, they would no longer be able to send a single fragon squad to the quiet side of your base and destroy all your shit, in between dancing an assumed 1 unit trying to melee them.
#52
I think with Fire Dragons, it's a combination of things:
high health
armour type
Fleet of Foot
huge mass
high damage
Granted they have short range but all the rest in combination overcompensates for it.
I'm probably going to be reworking Fleet of Foot in general at some point.
How does this sound?
Fleet of Foot change to timed ability, duration 8 seconds, recharge time 45 seconds
Dark Reapers, Rangers and Fire Dragons Fleet of Foot increases speed to 20 instead of 24 (from 16)
EDIT:
Download Soulstorm version 1.2 here or here
Download Dark Crusade version 1.1 here or here
Last edited by corncobman; 12th Feb 09 at 6:48 PM.
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1.) Does the mod incoporate bugfixes (ie Maktaka's bugfix mod for stuff that isn't changed for balance purposes?)
2.) Do they work in the campaign?
Originally Posted by chelovek_veliki
I think you are over nerfing Eldar a bit, we need to concentrate on the important thing. Nerfing Tau (or maybe DE, but I haven't played them so much). But seriously I think fleet of foot should last perhaps 10 seconds, with a 30 second cool down (20 seconds between bursts), that would drastically reduce their mobility yet it would still be available often enough.
#55
@Riotlung
1) yes Maktaka's Bugfix mod is included.
2) should do, the Eldar stronghold AI crash still exists as it uses the DoW Skirmish AI.
@bman3k
probably but the Eldar changes probably need to be tested in order to find good values to use.
Tau may still be overpowered, but I'm not sure what to change for them.
Dark Eldar I feel doesn't need that many changes.
Nerfing Tau, eh. How about removing Infantry Heavy High armor with Improved Metallurgy for the Fire Warriors?
Other than that, you can also edit the range upgrades to be slightly lower, but that can be sensitive to some.
I think most of the ideas are quite good.
so to keep this discussion ongoing and because I was bored, I made my own adjustments
I did not change that much, but simply un-nerf eldar a bit, kept the Vehicle caps for the T4 tanks (except Tau) and tweaked the necron solution.
Eldar:
Dark Reaper health reduce by 50
Fire Dragon mass reduce from 90 to 50, 55 for exarch
Avatar pop bonuses reduced to 3/3, make Avatar buildable even with full pop
Bonesinger cost increase from 45 to 50, teleport distance reduce
Ranger Infiltration requires Soul Shrine
Warp Spider health reduce significantly from 615 to 415
Enhanced Reinforced Armour research upgrades armour to heavy high
Nightwing increase damage to infantry
Fire Prism health decrease from 5285 to 4285
Webway Gate no longer counts in Annihilation
Harlequin Kiss splash damage reduce from 200 to 150
Fleet of Foot change to timed ability, duration 8 seconds, recharge time 45 seconds
Dark Reapers, Rangers and Fire Dragons Fleet of Foot changes speed to 20 instead of 24 (from 16)
Space Marines:
Sergeants build time reduce from 30 seconds to 20 seconds
Skull Probe infiltration research remove, make Skull Probe infiltrate automatically
Plasma Gun damage increase
Terminator Flamer max damage increase from 32 to 35, min damage increase from 5 to 20
Orks:
Nob Squad leader made separate from the Slugga/Shoota Nob Leader, damage improved, mass increased.
Squiggoth Big Shoota FOTM penalty reduced from 0.35 to 0.25 (25% FOTM accuracy)
Squiggoth Zzzap Gun FOTM penalty reduced from 0.6 to 0.4 (35% FOTM accuracy)
Imperial Guard:
Basilisk Eartshaker cannon slow effect, lesser effect than the whirlwind.
Assassin infiltrate automatically, remove research
Reduce Guardsmen Plasma Gun damage slightly
Guardsmen Plasma Gun damage decrease from 34/54 to 28/48
Assassin accuracy increase from 80% to 100%, damage decrease from 1100/1400 to 860/1060
Marauder bomb abilities recharge reduce by 1/2 effectiveness reduce by 1/2
Necrons:
Monolith cost reduce to 400 for the second and 600 for the third.
Get-back up squad radius increase from 20 to 30
Necron warriors health +35 per monolith addon
Tomb Spyder range weapon accuracy / damage increase
Dark Eldar:
Warrior range increase by 1
Dais of Destruction, increase dark skythe damage 400 - 500
Souls on death last longer
Souls from Slave Chamber take longer to build
Screams of the Damned soul cost increase from 60 to 80
Piercing Vision soul cost decrease from 40 to 25
Gruesome display addon detect infiltrated units
Raider cap cost reduce from 3 to 2
Reaver Jetbike reduce damage to commanders
Raven increase damage to infantry
Raven require Tier 2, Short Circuit ability require Tier 3
Hellion health reduced from 550 to 500
Tau:
Increase Greater Knarloc speed and turn rate slightly
Barracuda weapons damage spread out more evenly, total damage reduce slightly
Fire Warrior leader cap to 1 each
decrease fire warrior health - 10
increased skyray rate of fire 5 -> 6
decrease firewarrior dmg upgrade 30% to 25%
Hammerhead cap cost increased from 3 to 4
Krootox cap cost increased from 3 to 4
Chaos:
Decrease Hell Talon health by 500
Cultist Grenade Launcher set up time
Chaos Marine Infiltration move to tier 4
Plasma Gun damage decrease
Bloodthirster regenerates health in combat instead of only in melee
Bloodthirster damage to buildings reduced significantly
Sisters of Battle:
Servitor Sabotage require tier 2
Immolator build time reduce from 55 to 35 seconds
Lightning Fighter increase damage to heavy infantry
War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
Why is plasma gun damage for IG guardsmen reduced?They already die horribly fast and they cost tons to arm not to mention the time.
I didn"t see something overpowered with guardsmen plasma the way it was=> good damage on a fragile platform.
I wish relic would have done a last balance patch.Those people turned away from their old faithfull elder son the minute the second child is born.Thats just shamefull
Keep up the good work though.
#59
You may have a point there.
I dunno, I don't really have a concrete reason for doing it I suppose. Maybe I could tweak the vehicles in some way as that's where their main strength lies.
Lower mass for Fire Dragons will not suddenly make them useless. That is an Eldar fanboy myth perpetuated despite its origin (WA bug) having been fixed years ago.
#61
Should I reduce the sight range of Tau Pathfinders / Devilfish?
50 seems to be a bit extreme to me.
But there is a strategy revolving around it.In its current in this patch if the Tau was alright it wouldn"t be such a big thing.
And secondly devilfish is very fragile if it cant spot the enemy headon it would be conserved tuna fish in no minutes.
so let me get this straight... they werent imbalanced in WA, but they are now, because a bug which did not effect them (in wa, due to mass) is now fixed. logic anyone?Lower mass for Fire Dragons will not suddenly make them useless. That is an Eldar fanboy myth perpetuated despite its origin (WA bug) having been fixed years ago.
Originally posted by OmegaDestroyer, about Necrons in SS:
If you like the Necrons, you'll be disappointed. They aren't one of the strongest races anymore. They didn't get hit by a nerfbat or anything; a truck carrying a bunch of nerfbats accidentally crashed into a restored monolith
SS is a very different game from WA, mind.
For example, you won't get Hellfire spammed in SS, but it was a popular thing to do in WA
(in SS you get Vyper spam instead, which does exactly the same thing, but is cheaper and more mobile).
Last edited by KotCR; 3rd Mar 09 at 5:55 PM.
#65
No, that's not at all what he's talking about. In Winter Assault Fire Dragons were bugged and tended to ignore manual attack orders or units that were within range. This meant they had to spend an inordinate amount of time under enemy fire before they'd finally figure out they needed to shoot at enemy targets. To compensate, Relic made them impossible to knock down before they finally fixed the bug. However, once the bug was fixed, their mass was not restored, leaving us with the perfectly deadly but still unshakable Fire Dragons we have today.so let me get this straight... they werent imbalanced in WA, but they are now, because a bug which did not effect them (in wa, due to mass) is now fixed. logic anyone?
oh thanks for clearing that out. sorry for my ignorance.
Hum.. I thought that whole "Grav stabalizer" thing was a lil werid..
No changes to Assult Space Marines or Predator?
Last edited by Sesshyru; 11th Mar 09 at 8:00 AM.
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