Star Wars: Imperial R&D

[Evenflow]

yyyyeeeessss!!!

*rubs hands in anticipation*

I can't tell you how happy I am that I can play it today, seeing as I work most of the day tommorow and can't try it out until I get home!

[evillejedi]

heh I could upload it now if you don't mind the imp factory ship changing colors randomly. probably gonna be another hour or so.

[Evenflow]

Heh, I noticed the white/gray Imp Factory ship in some of your newer screenshots, I always thought that it was just a placeholder for the Rebel mothership until you come out with a new model for the Rebels.

Let's see... I have to go to work tommorow at 9 AM, I need atleast 3 hours of sleep, soooo...... yeah, I'll propably wait for it instead of sleeping!

[evillejedi]

okay currently uploading, I'll post the link here, but you should go to the webpage cause I may have additional information

first off some of the things that you have to know

TURN OFF NLIPS, this is what causes the 'huge ship' problems, it's a pain to fix because basically I have to manually disable it on a ship by ship basis, just turn the option off in the game menu and be done with it. :-p

since a lot of new stuff was added, it is not optimized. so expect LAG in large battles. the unit caps now work correctly, the destroyer and frigate options only allow ships of said class and lower. the other options scale as they would in the normal game. The AI goes nuts on unlimited or even large, so be careful.

some ships weren't included in this release. Rest assured the only thing that has been completely axed is the super capital scaffolding and it's evil lagging ways. the ships that are missing were either placeholders and therefore really ugly, or were giving me grief either through collison or crash issues.

Due to the work needed to get stuff imported through maya (all the fighters and corvettes from before) some of the lower detail textures aren't mapped correctly (TIE's for example) this will get fixed once proper LODs are generated.

after sunday I'll be out of the country all next week so Dragon45 will try to answer any questions you have. Hopefully any horrible issues I missed will be either nonexistant or found in time to get fixed.

Some rebel ships have been added, however they are not very well balanced with the imperials yet. thanks to Zeelich and Gank for providing the assault frigate, bulk cruiser, DX-9 and action IV.

the executor should be very well behaved for everything except hyperspace, there may be some collision issues occasioanlly, but it works pretty well. The vengence may behave strangely, but it didn't seem horrible.

the rebels require a resource controller to operate, make sure you keep one around at all times.

icons didn't make this release, their creation is very time consuming. when I come back from vacation both icons and unit AI will recieve top priority.

[Evenflow]

Great, just in time as I'm running out of coffee pretty fast here.
How long does it take to upload?

[evillejedi]

fixed, the website link worked btw this was just copy-pasted wrong

BETA V0.2

[Kinjiss]

Download link don't work for me. Says that the file isnt found, when I try to download with DAP. Or when I click on it, it just opens a new window and says the page cannot be found, yatta yatta yatta. Please help oh great and powerful, eviljedi.

--Kinjiss

Edit: Nevermind, works now. HURRAH! HUZZAH FOR EVILJEDI! HUZZAH! HUZZAH!

[Evenflow]

Hmmmm.... tried it out, it's.... different to say the least. I have to be honest with you Evillejedi: you butchered the ISDII texturing pretty bad, don't know, it looked just fine before, now the ISDII turns black if you zoom out and the textures are all messed up. The most maddening thing is that the ISDI model is just fine....

Is that what you mean by optimizing? I thought that was just for the just-textured new ships. Anyway, just wanted to wish you the best on your vacation, you've certainly earned it!

P.S: did you make the SSD smaller? Feels like it for some reason...

[Dragon45]

You're right about the scale, its WAY off, due to engine limitations.

[evillejedi]

the weird texturing on the ISD II is because of the engines stupid lighting. the texture is actually fine undearneath. I still haven't found a fix for this, considering the allegiance is the same mesh as the ISD II and has adjustments and looks perfectly fine. the VSD's have the same problem. \

though it does look like the weapon collision meshes are weird on the factory ship and ISD II, doesn't seem to effect gameplay though.

SSD is the same model, just cut into pieces so it doesn't screw up the collision modelling, it probably looks smaller because it has a real texture on it. before it had what could be considered dazzle camoflage which breaks up the outline of the ship.

[Evenflow]

Well, I have one question for you really: what is the difference between the ISDI and ISDII? I know in the EU the ISDII has more turbolasers and better shields/hull, but how does that translate into the game? Since the ISDI looks perfectly fine, I think I'll build those instead of the ISDII's until the texturing is fixed, but I don't want to get totally wupped in the game by the Rebels.

Speaking of Rebels.... those MonCals are VICIOUS. One Cruiser took out three of my ISDIIs all by itself!! I wish I could see the look on people's faces who said the big ships were too powerfull!

[evillejedi]

yeah the AI loves its MC-90's

ISD I in game is faster, has more ions and smaller guns, more for pursuit
ISD II is slower and heavy guns more for big combat

the AI seems to like the ISD I better at this moment so the ISD II might get a stat boost in the future

[NonameXK5]

Well good improvement on the ships. Rebels very laggy espicallt the MC liberty and X wings but u have to zoom in on an X wing to get lag. Mapping issues still a problem with Enforcer.Good job on improving the mod but in the next release see if u can cut the polys on the Rebel Crusiers and fighters actually see if u can cut polys on all ships.Keep up the good work.

[Deathbunny]

I'd just as soon have him leave the ships the way they are. It's a little chunky here and there on my comp, but it's really pretty, and that's more fun for me.

[Evenflow]

I think he said that the Rebel ships have textures that are unoptimized, I know what that means because two versions ago the game was laggy as hell if you had any more than five Star Destroyers, new version came out and the game was very smooth. Try playing an game using the Empire but no Rebels, the game is much smoother because the Imperial textures are better optimized or something like that, but then put Rebels in and it lags like hell.

Other observations I noticed: (Please give your opinion on this as well)

MonCal cruisers are too overpowered. Granted I understand the need to have something be able to have a fighting chance against a SSD, but the problem is you've done it at the expense of every other Imperial ship out there. You need about 3 ISDII's to take down one MonCal, it really shouldn't be that way. The best (and most logical) solution would be to give the Rebels a ship that is equivalent to an SSD. I know they don't really have anything like that, but for gameplay purposes I think it's the most straightforward way to overcome the balancing issue without making half the Imperial units nigh useless. You know.... you took out a huge cruiser for the Empire in this release.... I don't exactly remember it's name but you built was as big as the Sovereign, I forgot it's name, anyway if you add a tail to that it could look like a Dauntless Cruiser a bit, you can make that the Rebels equivalent to the SSD, same power, same price, everything, and then bring the MonCals back to ISD and ISDII levels to balance out the game more, worth a thought if you don't want to make up a whole new ships for the Rebels. What do you think?

[evillejedi]

one of the issues is that early mon cals are really horrid. but latter stuff like the MC-90 and MC-104 are much better than Imp ships so it will be a balance issues that I have to work on. also the website warns that you are going to get lag, and yes the rebel ships are the main culprts mainly because the game is forced to use the same high detail mesh at no zoom and full map zoom. it will get improved like evenflow said.

[Evenflow]

Real horrid?

I think you misunderstood, I was complaining that the early MonCals like the MC80B are much better than the Imp ships. I mean, look at the stats for the MC80C:

150speed/12,914 Firepower/607,600 shields

For the Imperial Star Destroyer II:

200 Speed/5,834 firepower/153,600 shields.

Even Allegiance is no match:

220/18847/373,400

I see what you're trying to do, you're building the game from the ground up with the SSD as the balancing standard, but you do so at the expense of pretty much ALL Imperial ships, who tend to be much more expensive than thier Rebel counterparts and much, much weaker. I really think you should consider an SSD-equivalent for the Rebels. Does'nt have to be as big but just as strong.

EDIT: Wait... MC-104? Is that in this release or the next?

[atomiccow]

i found a bug with the imperial light enforcer, and interdicter cruiser. when you zoom in on the ship, it gets smaller, when you zoom out it gets bigger. has anyone else seen that.

[Falleen9]

I have a bug the game CTD's after about a half an hour 45 mins of play.

[Dragon45]

atomiccow: There is a box under Options that says "Enable NLIPs". Make sure this box is NOT checked. If the problem persists, then please say so.

Falleen9: Please give teh conditions and suhc as to what you were doing before the game crashed.

[Bromma_Herman]

Hows the Figthers?

I can see it before me....

Three squads of Y-wings heading for a ISD, releasing torpedoes and evading the fire. Then, a squad of TIE Interceptor come out of nowhere and begin to wreck havoc on the Y-Wings. Then Luke Skywalker and Rouge Squadron (Elite Interceptors any1 :jest: )
move in and save the day by blasting the TIE:s into space dust.

EDIT: Actually I got a 56k modem so I just dreaming. Can any1 tell me how this mod is?

[Mr Orc]

I seem to have a problem with sound. I don't get any sound (inc music) in the game or main menu. But if i quit i have sound again so i would think that the problem lies with the mod somewhere. Although i was not sure what to do with the shortcuts so i put them in a sum folder but they work fine.

[Evenflow]

How is this MOD?

Well, it's better than anything Lucasarts every put out that doesn't involve lightsabers or piloting TIE fighters in space, I'll tell you that much.

It's an excellent MOD, I think you should try downloading it even on a 56K, from what I understand there seems to be quite a few people on here with 56K also and they've managed.

[NonameXK5]

Yeah i have 56k so i've managed since the begining of the mod.

[backstab]

Nice work jedi ive got the death star done but for some reason i cant add it to your mod maps cus they have a diff code than hw2 ones i play it on normal hw2 and ppl r like WOW it fires and everything I hope i dont need to remake the thing cus the texturing was MURDER! itll be ready for the release so we can play with it wen your ready!

[NonameXK5]

Death Star?! woo now what are we gonna use agenst it?

[Evenflow]

Death Star huh? Can you take a screenshot and post it here?

[BrettMan]

I want. Does it have the superlaser?

[NonameXK5]

I just noticed a bug when the schimta bomber or however u spell fires it torpedos the torpedos hit the bombers when fired the torpedos might be to slow or something but i just noticed it.The other bombers i think are fine but u should in the speed or the torpedos so they dont hit the bombers.

[Evenflow]

I just noticed a bug, it's called FIGHTERS. Seriously, all this time I spent wondering why my game would crash for no reason turns out to be fighter related. Here's the deal: if you build more than, say, 10 Squadrons of fighters, the game WILL crash. Not maybe, not possibly, but WILL, I just tested this beyond dispute, games that were rock solid before I loaded them all and tried building lots of fighters (mostly Defenders and Scimitars), and the game just freezes when the enemy attacks.

Unless it's something to do with my particular system, I think that is what has been giving me problems all along. My advice is to avoid using fighters until we're not in beta anymore and stick with a fleet of Lancer frigates for you anti-starfighter needs. Frigates and above you can get with your cruisers and destroyers.

[Deathbunny]

I think it's your system. I've had a full flight of defenders tangle with enemy x-wing squadrons. If there's a problem, it's related to hitting the wall on fighter production and then trying to restart--I'm not sure if it is the production, or the cap, or something that happens when production is locked, but it's in that neighborhood.

Noname: It's 'Scimitar', pronounced 'sih mih tar' and it's a kind of sword that was invented (I think) in the middle-east. http://www.brightblades.com/iberia23.html
the scimitar is the one on the right.

I'm not trying to make fun of you--just trying to help out. I always think it's more fun to know what the names of stuff mean.

[Kaze-Kami]

Hi. New to the forums I am. Just a teency little question. You may have heard of Star Wars: Total Anihillation. Its a mod for Total Anihillation. The mod is very good, and capable of running off the demo of the game just fine.
I was wondering, would this mod every be able to work off the demo of HW2, or is it just a never to be fulfilled dream o' mine?

[Falleen9]

playing the game and it ctds i was hyperspacing some x-wings.

[Evenflow]

No, it doesn't work with the demo, I tried that. You need the full game and then to patch it to version 1.1 as soon as you get it for this MOD to work.

[Kaze-Kami]

Dont mean to be rude, but would it not be possible to include those files not included with the demo that are needed for this outstanding looking mod? Or would that unfortunately be some sort of copyright problem?

If it is.....well, bugger.

If it aint, I REALLY hope ye can see it in yer hearts to stick those few extra files in.

(Come on, ye know ye want tae )

[Sortsiam]

If anyone is having problems with fighters slowing down your system , I suggest you check your options and make sure you have shadows disabled.

[Falleen9]

Do you guys have a server to play this mod on i'd like to play against a human.

[NonameXK5]

LOL thxs alot Bunny i feel like a dumbs*** now thx lol jk but i dont get crashs when fighters are built over 10.

Ok i found some bugs all the capitol size ships are a bit more laggy so are fighters every fighter Rebel Imperail alike there laggy most of the lag comes if u zoom in.
I found a bug in lasers, say your ISD's or SSD is firing at another ship well when it goes into hyperspace the lasers seem to follow the ship even when its in hyperspace once it gets out of hyperspace the lasers hit it.
In the next release try to reduce polys and find some more staff if you can to help you with the lag issues.Also the mole miners are laggy if u zoom into em.

[spacemoose]

Here are some quick battle results:

8 ISD IIs
30 sq. TIE
3 sq. TIE Interceptor
2 sq. TIE Advanced
5 sq. TIE Bomber
1 Neb B

vs

5 MC90 Defiance
8 sq. X-Wing

Survivors:

3 MC90s (1 @ 70%)
7 sq. X-Wing (all ~ 30%)

The total cost of the Imperials was 118818.
The total cost of the Rebels was 89375.

Loss for Imperials was 118818.
Loss for Rebels was effectively 52341.

I know you haven't balanced the Rebels yet, I'm just giving you some numbers.

Do you know what your balancing scheme is going to be? Cause it kinda sounds like you are planning for the Rebels to have better fighters and destroyers, which would really give them an advantage early in the game.

Man was that fun to watch. Swarms of TIEs coming at the X-wings; and MAN did they get slaughtered. Heh heh.

[Sortsiam]

That just doesn't sound quite right. The Mon Cal destroyers may have better shields, but their firepower should be low enough to put them at the same or lower level as the Imperial destroyers. Unless the destroyer advantage is meant to make up for the inability of the New Republic to create anything comparable to the Super Star Destroyer. God I love that thing:flamer:.

[AsterXiphos]

Rebel fighters are supposed to have the advantage over early TIE's, aren't they? 'Course, then the Defenders come in and own the place . . .

Also, I always got the impression that the Imps had a "cheaper, but more" attitude about their ships. Kinda like a cookiecutter. Don't know why I thought that, maybe because the destroyers are all built on the same design . . . same with the TIE's. Makes for great part compatability between ships.

That way, there's no, "Hey, I can't seem to find any parts for a '75 VSD II, model IMP8765, Nebula Edition."

[Sortsiam]

Lol that's true. But in the books the Mon Cal ships never seem to have the kind of advantage over Imp Star Destroyers that they do in the mod. I guess I'm just a by-the-book kinda guy, but then I don't like discontinuities or major gaps. Having everything the way it should be all the time just comforts me in this ever-changing world.

[Assassin X]

Please forgive me stupidness here because im probably missing somthing but...

THIS MOD IS UBER LAGGY!!!! If i try to look at any ship my game goes down to like 0.000000001 FPS unless i look away. With bigger ships i cant even have them onm screen.

My specs are Win Xp, Radeon 9800, 512 ram.

WTF??? BTW BEST MOD EVER!!!!

[backstab]

I dont have a screenshot on the net to add a hyper link .How do i robust from my computer i just got a badass one with it firing lol

[Evenflow]

OK, here's the deal with MonCals and ISDs:

There is nothing in the "canon" Rebel/Republic fleet that is a match for an Imperial Star Destroyer, I or II, EXCEPT for the Republic Star Destroyer, which showed up briefly in the Yevethan trilogy of novels, which itself is set 12 years after ROTJ ends. So 12 years after Endor, and the Rebels STILL don't have anything to match a ISD in terms of firepower, shields, or hull strength.

Now, I am tempted to add the Mon Remonda (MC80B) and it's successor, the MC90, as just as powerfull if not more so. After all, in the Wraith books the Mon Remonda made 2-3 passes at Zsinj's Super Star Destroyer and was STILL functional, and Zsinj seemed to sweat bullets whenever the Mon Remonda came around. If it can go up against a SSD, then it sure as hell can go up against an ISD. But, if you were to just look at the specs, it sure doesn't seem like it.

So here's what I suggest Evillejedi do, and please people comment on this: Rebels should have a clear advantage in Starfighters and Frigates, the Assault Frigate should be able to wipe the floor with any Imperial frigate the Imps can make, and Rebel fighters like the E-Wing, K-Wing, and X-Wing should be better than thier Imperial equivalents (TIE Defender, Scimitar Bomber, and TIE In/Interceptor respectively).

Now when it comes to destroyers there's the little problem of the Super Star Destroyer and to a lesser extent the Vengeance (which looks amazing in the MOD btw, kudos to Evillejedi), they're really powerfull and can decimate 20 Mon Cal cruisers without losing half thier energy. What I propose is very simple:

MC-90 = ISDI/ISDII.
All other Rebel cruisers have same shields as ISDs but less powerfull , which is somewhat accurate.

So what about the SSD/Vengeance?

Republic Star Destroyer = Vengeance.

Really, I have the RPG book and the Republic Star Destroyer is supposed to be REALLY powerfull, it's slightly more compact than the Imperial class ships but it states that it is FIVE TIMES more powerfull than an ISD. That could be the Rebels answer to the SSD, given that it's also supported by maybe 2-3 MonCal cruisers.

The point is to make the MOD realistic to the establised Star Wars mythos: Imps are all about brute force and overwhelming numbers, churning out TIE's cheaply and in large numbers. Rebels are more strategic and in a way technological (MonCal's overlapping shilds, for example), with superior starfighters and better modified frigates and corvettes.

So what do you guys think?

[AsterXiphos]

Hmmm . . . I love the idea of giving the Rebs a large advantage in fighter and frigate classes. I have a harder time with the cruisers and destroyers, though. I agree that the MonCals are purty dang weak compared to an ISD . . . but then again, let's think about this. There really wasn't a balance in the Star Wars Universe. There's a reason the Imps had the Rebs on the run . . . their destroyers were stronger, and they could produce fighters quickly and cheaply. I agree with allowing one MonCal (maybe the MC-90) to be equal or just barely stronger than the ISD/II, with all of the others (we've gotta have more, I love those things) able to take VSD's, etc. As for the SSD, I like the idea of a Bulwark . . . provided it's modelled better than Star Wars: Rebellion had it, and better than anywhere else I've seen. Good luck, Eville!

[rgreat]

Simple and probably best solution:
Make ships with 'historically' right hull/shieled/firepower.
Price can make all things ballanced easy.

[Dslguy14]

you should make Yuuzhan Vong ships, too.

YV ships are the ones that fire plasma. All other SW ships fire directed laser energy weapons, not magnetically contained plasma. Remmeber Tibiana gas?

[Evenflow]

Yeah, but price doesn't mean jacksquat when playing with RU injection, which is what 99% of the people I know play with anyway. To qoute my best friend:

"I just want to blow some **** up, not collect a bunch of rocks"

Anyway, Bulwark or Republic Star Destroyer hardly matters, it's just that you're right: the Bulwark looks like ass in Rebellion, the Dauntless Cruiser looks cool, but looks a lot like most MonCal cruisers, so I don't think he should use that.

In the end we agree on one thing: give the Rebels something close to the SSD in power. Doesn't exactly have to be that big either.

EDIT: Oh, you also said that the MonCals should be weaker than the ISDs, not equal. Well, you could do that, but if that happens most people would just skip the Rebel destroyers all together and just stick with the frigates and the fighters, especially the CPU (from what I understand he looks at the overall "value" of each unit to decide what to build in each class). I tend to favor the epic, drawn out battles that result from fleets of gigantic capital ships slugging it out rather than a Star Destroyer shooting frantically at little fighters you can't even see and frigates that are a tenth it's size.

[rgreat]

Ok, resource injection (e.g. unlimited money).
I dont play with it becouse it hurt startegy options, but ok.

500 ru = 1 second of production.

ISD - 50000 ru - 100 seconds.
MC80 - 30000 ru - 60 seconds.

See the point ?