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Questions regarding "Holy Terra"

  1. #1

    Questions regarding "Holy Terra"

    Well, I am certainly asking a lot of questions on these forums, but then again, I was only just a fan of 40k a few weeks ago.

    So my (patriotic) friend immediately demanded the political situation of Earth when I told him about the Warhammer universe. You know, the Imperium, Emperor, bad-asses...the good stuff.

    I told him that Earth's name is now Holy Terra, and that it's the Warhammer equivilant of Coruscant. Before he could ask what I knew he was gonna ask (does the U.S.A. still exist?) I told him it's called Warhammer 40,000 for a reason. Maybe...takes place 40,000+ years in the future maybe? Oh, I dunno.

    But really, I do have a few questions that he brought up and I'm actually interested in knowing.

    1.Are there any good pictures of "Holy Terra" or the surface of it? Surely 41,000 years must have had SOME impact on the planet.

    2. Are the continents even visible anymore? What happened to the oceans? (I think I know what happened to the oceans, since Terra's classified as a "Hive World")

    3. How is Terra defended? Specificailly, how well-defended is it?

    4. Sigh...just for the sake of satisfying my friend here...do any certain (cough USA) 21st century nations still have any mark on Terra? (Yeah, right)

  2. #2
    As far as I know, the oceans are no more. They got polluted to high heaven and boiled away in various wars.
    The continent edges are vaguely visible as areas of higher building concentration.
    And Terra is the best defended world in the galaxy, the moon is a fortress I believe, and I *think* I've heard that Saturn is a fortress world too...I'm not big on the defenses of Terra, or anything much actually, but that's what I know/think off the top of my head
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  3. #3

  4. #4
    Member Stingra's Avatar
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    The best view I've ever seen of Terra is from the opening cinematic of Firewarrior, in which is was shiny and brown with a bright grid system on it.

    http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Holy_Terra
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  5. #5
    Internet Nomad Brenil's Avatar
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    1.Are there any good pictures of "Holy Terra" or the surface of it? Surely 41,000 years must have had SOME impact on the planet.

    2. Are the continents even visible anymore? What happened to the oceans? (I think I know what happened to the oceans, since Terra's classified as a "Hive World")

    3. How is Terra defended? Specificailly, how well-defended is it?

    4. Sigh...just for the sake of satisfying my friend here...do any certain (cough USA) 21st century nations still have any mark on Terra? (Yeah, right
    1) Seeing as it has already been answered, I'll skip this one.

    2) No, the continents aren't really distinguishable as such anymore, given that twenty-five thousand years of off and on again conflict, several enviromental disasters, and natural (or forced) geological movement and erosion, have ravaged Terra beyond our recognition. The most visible parts of Terra in the forty-second millenium are the hives and of course the enormous Imperial Palace (which in of itself covers all of former Britain and most of Europe). The Horus Hersey also did vast damage to the planet and more or less annihilated most of the pacific continents (including a large mass of Asia).

    The oceans are a different story, it is mentioned within the Horus Hersey novels that the oceans were gone before the Horus Hersey, therefore it is likely that thousands of years of nuclear war tore the planet to pieces long before Horus did. The oceans long since evapored and the landscape is a blighted horribly, devoid of much weather (understandably, since there is no more water) and lacking on oxygen (this goes hand in hand with a blighted landscape, no water, and no trees means no air). However, the process of 'hiving' the planet makes Terra very livable and now the majority of the planet is covered in unimaginably vast metropolises.

    3) Terra itself isn't a fortress world, yet the solar system itself is. The entire home system of Terra (Sol) is a fortress system from its outer dwarf planets to its inner solar system. Luna (our moon) is a fortress world itself and is the last line of defense for Terra. Also, Battlefleet Solar serves very little purpose other than protecting the solar system (whereas other battlefleets patrol entire sectors or subsectors). Every habitable planet (and most are in the forty-second millenium) in the solar system is dedicated to military production, protection, or research. Therefore, to get to Terra you must burn the entire solar system to get there.

    4) No, the United States of America is long dead in the forty-second millenium. According to fluff, most recognizable nations ceased to exist as we understand them during or before the Dark Age of Technology.
    Last edited by Brenil; 4th Feb 09 at 4:44 PM.

  6. Tabletop Senior Member  #6
    Fluffy Necromancer Andkat's Avatar
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    Also, Battlefield Solar serves very little purpose other than protecting the solar system (whereas other battlefields patrol entire sectors or subsectors). Every habitable planet (and most are in the forty-second millenium) in the solar system is dedicated to military production, protection, or research. Therefore, to get to Terra you must burn the entire solar system to get there.
    Battlefleet Solar operates throughout the entirety of the Segmentum Solar, just as with any other Imperial battlefleet. Solar high command is located in SoL, with Luna and Mars constituting enormously important manufacturing and maintenance facilities for the battlefleet. However, it is not exclusively dedicated to the defense of the system.

    However, Terra is guarded by a very significant concentration of Imperial warships from Battlefleet Solar, the formidable and technologically advanced fleets of Mars, the greatest and most revered of all Forgeworlds, the devastating and ancient defensive facilities of Mars (including many potent relics of the Dark Age of Technology) and Terra, the vast Skiitari Legions and prodigious Titans of Mars, the elite Grey Knights and the fleets and armies of the Ordo Malleus (whom are all based in the moons of Saturn and while generally active throughout the Imperium, will maintain some significant presence in their secret base of operations at any give point, meaning that some Ordo Malleus assets would be available to defend Terra in the event of the assault), the elite Custodian Guard and the nigh-impenetrable Imperial Palace, and a vast array of lesser forces arrayed on Terra (the Convent Prioris of the Adepta Sororitas is based on Terra, although most of its Battle-Sisters are deployed elsewhere in the Imperium, the Scholastia Psykana maintains its most important facilities on Terra, and the world itself would be host to a very considerable PDF and various security and persecution agencies).


    The SoL system itself contains the most sacred and critical worlds of the two great Imperial faiths (the Cult Imperialis and the Priesthood of Mars), vast and enormously important industrial facilities on Luna and Mars, a vast array of essential representatives, high officers, and masters of the great Imperial institutions as well as those of various influential noble houses (including the primary residences of the greatest of the Navis Nobilitate), the Senatorum Imperialis, the Astronomican that is so essential to the continued operation and stability of the Imperium, the most critical facilities of the Ordo Malleus, and a myriad of other Imperial assets of considerable importance and value, so it is should not be particularly surprising that it is the single best defended system in the Imperium.
    If you feel that a Backstory thread or post deserves a sticky, then please post your recommendation in the List of Useful Threads Thread. Backstory & Fluff Forum Rules.

  7. #7
    Internet Nomad Brenil's Avatar
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    I think you emphasied the wrong part. I said Battlefield instead of Battlefleet and I stand corrected on Battlefleet Solar.

  8. #8
    Member The_Guardman's Avatar
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    In addition, as all of their brothers, the Imperial Fist chapter fight all across the Imperium, but they are honored to call their home of operation Holy Terra. They are the only chapter granted such highest honor, and they will run to its defense if needed.

    And no, no 21th century state, country or kingdom is survived after 38,000 years. There is just one reign on Earth, and it is the Imperium.
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  9. #9
    http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page

    This site is great for gathering info on WH40K, although its not dedicated entirely to the backstory, it depicts the tabletop game alot.
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  10. #10
    In my day, we made our OWN war Robert Frazer's Avatar
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    DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr, there's no need to post links to the Lexcianum - we're well capable of answering questions here as well, you know.

    U.N. Spacey - if it's any consolation to your friend, while the U.S.A. doesn't survive as a political entity the landscape itself apparently enjoys some prominence, albeit not through any direct succession from the United States - in the Horus Heresy novels a number of socially eminent characters hail from "Merica" so she seems to be a bastion of high society amongst the literati (several remembrancers have backgrounds of performing in the "parlours of Merica"), aristocracy and nobility. From descriptions I gather the impression that the environment plays on the themes of New England WASPs.
    Last edited by Robert Frazer; 4th Feb 09 at 9:31 PM.
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  11. #11
    If the whole surface of the planet is city scape where do people get things like water... and oxygen?

  12. #12
    Internet Nomad Brenil's Avatar
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    Imported, except for oxygen, which I'm sure they have a process to supply the hives or somehow thickened the atmosphere.

    All hive worlds in the Imperium typically need to have their goods imported from argri-worlds which sole purpose is to produce provisions for these empty husk worlds that support a massive population.

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    Knight of the Order Dark Watcher's Avatar
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    Water, I would guess, is harvested from vast recyc-&-processing installations.

  14. #14
    Member pgarfunkle's Avatar
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    I thought the Imperial Palace was located in the Himalayas.
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  15. #15
    In my day, we made our OWN war Robert Frazer's Avatar
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    No, you're thinking of the choir of the Astronomicon, pgarfunkle - as was said earlier in the thread, the Imperial Palace has historically been situated on the British Isles and Europe.

    The picture has been confused in recent years because Dan Abnett, in his short story "The Lightning Tower" (published as a novelette along with the Graham McNeill story "The Dark King", with Night Haunter as a subject, at Games Day in 2007; it's now available as an audiobook), infuriatingly disregarded two decades' worth of precedent on this point and decided to put the "Golden Palace" - the Emperor's pre-Siege residence - in the Indian subcontinent. The two conflicting points could be reconciled by saying that the Golden Palace and the Imperial Palace are two different institutions, with the Golden Palace despoiled by too much blood and bad memories during the Siege to countenance enthroning the Ascended Emperor there; alternatively the Codex-level sources have to take precedence over a novelist and Abnett's remark just be thrown out as factually wrong.
    Last edited by Robert Frazer; 10th Feb 09 at 9:05 AM.

  16. #16
    essential representatives, high officers, and masters of the great Imperial institutions as well as those of various influential noble houses (including the primary residences of the greatest of the Navis Nobilitate), the Senatorum Imperialis, the Astronomican that is so essential to the continued operation and stability of the Imperium, the most critical facilities of the Ordo Malleus, and a myriad of other Imperial assets of considerable importance and value, so it is should not be particularly surprising that it is the single best defended system in the Imperium.
    beside that, also the emperor of mankind is on terra... just to make sure we dont forget anyone

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    Member Kalamain's Avatar
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    As a small aside....Isn't the Golden Throne actually situated where the GW HQ is in England (Not sure exactly where it is)?

    I seem to remember reading that as very unnofficial though....

    Also.
    @Andkat
    Not to be picky or rude or anything...But why do you put 'SoL'?
    Is it a typo? You normally don't make such mistakes but you did it twice. I'm wondering if I have made a mistake!
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  18. #18
    Wasn't it the Emperors Gene labs that were supposed to be buried within the Himalayas?

  19. #19
    The Emperor's gene labs were on the Moon, the Astronomicon in the Himilayas, and the Golden Throne somewhere in Europe, is what I think I've heard.

  20. #20
    The golden throne takes up much of eurpe, if i recall and can be seen from space.
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  21. #21
    Member DougyM's Avatar
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    No... the palace takes up much of Europe and can be seen from space.

    The throne is supposed to be in the middle of the Palace in England.

  22. #22
    Yeah thats what i meant the Palace that holds the golden throne lol

    Which the golden throne it self is hanging over two doors to a webway.

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    Fluffy Necromancer Andkat's Avatar
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    The Inner Sanctum of the Imperial Palace, within which is located the Emperor himself, is situated directly upon the former location of Nottingham, UK, which coincides with the location of GWI's own headquarters.


    trikky: Yeah, I'm not really sure how I missed that. It should be "Sol".

  24. #24
    Member Green Tide's Avatar
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    Say... if Terra itself is a Tomb World of the Necrons? Would something stop the 'Crons from easily wiping out critical places like the Astronomican or in the direst case, the Golden Throne

  25. #25
    Member DougyM's Avatar
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    Well for a start theres no Tomb on Terra.

    Secondly, even if there was... then Terra itself has the Custodes, Titans, the Imperial Fists, numerous weapons platforms in orbit that probably could redirect their fire as a sort of directed orbital bombardment.

    Not to mention the billions of PDF and the countless other humans who would most likely take up arms in order to protect the God Emperor.

    Not to mention the Emperor himself, hes quite capable of defending himself/the IoM with extreme prejudice...

    He could quite easily just turn X number of the piglrims on Terra into saints as he has done in the past, the last recorded saint single handedly destroying a chaos Baneblade tank with only a power sword.


    In short... No.

  26. #26
    Member Green Tide's Avatar
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    How do you know that there's not a Necron Tomb City under Terra? Have you been there, or are you one of GW "Loremasters"?

    Also, Necron Tombships can pop out in any corner of the galaxy, an entire Necron fleet could be in Terra in a blink, greatly damaging, if not destroying, Terra itself. And let's not forget that the Void Dragon may be under Mars, which is relatively near Terra.

    And IF there is (which is highly improbable, yet it is possible) a Necron City in Terra, the Necrons can just pop anywhere on there, via their phase technology. Let's remember that Necron scout ships have easily bypassed Terra's defences, just think if a fully fledged Necron Tombfleet teleported right in front of Terra...

  27. #27
    Internet Nomad Brenil's Avatar
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    How do you know that there's not a Necron Tomb City under Terra?
    Because almost every planet that is a tomb world is a barren wasteland or other assorted uninhabitable rock. The few tomb worlds that are actually livable (usually by Imperial science, not nature), are found quite quickly once researchers, diggers, or what have you begin to scour the planet for one reason or the next.

    Necron tombs in of themselves aren't hard to find once you're on the planet, it's just finding the planet itself is the hard part.

  28. #28
    Are not the Imperial Fists still based on Terra?

  29. #29
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    There is no tomb world on Terra. Mars on the other hand...
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  30. #30
    Internet Nomad Brenil's Avatar
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    Are not the Imperial Fists still based on Terra?
    In essence, yes, but in practicality, no. Their 'base' is their massive fortress-monastery Phalanx, which roams around the galaxy. Yet their stated 'home' is Terra at heart, even if they're rarely if ever there anymore.

  31. #31
    In the first Ragnar book there are indications of deep mistrust of Space Marines (albiet among commoners not the literati or mobile society groups like the HLoT, navigators et cetera) on Terra. They did (the heretics at least) do a lot of damage.

  32. #32
    Thanks, Brenil.

  33. #33
    Yeah if there was a tomb on terra then it would been found, perhaps even woken. But no there no tomb since they would already try to destroy the crons that would live in it.

    I have a question, are there bums on terra, for some reason i don't beleive there would be a single bum, since they may get thrown into the pdf.

  34. Forum Subscriber  #34
    Member Kalamain's Avatar
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    There are hives on Terra....So I don't see why there would NOT be lower class citizens (Did you see me bypass the word there? )

    They are probably better 'secured' but they would exist. If you think for a second that even on Terra there would not be class distintions and crappy jobs to be done then you would have to have a much better view of humanity than I do.

    I seem to remember that with the vast hives that exist, there are levels of civilisation that simply 'Do Not Exist' to the 'Illuminati' It was in one of the books I read. possibly a Ciaphas Cain novel....Not sure.

  35. #35
    Merica was where the ancient metropolis of Nova Yoruk resided.

  36. #36
    Internet Nomad Brenil's Avatar
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    In the first Ragnar book there are indications of deep mistrust of Space Marines (albiet among commoners not the literati or mobile society groups like the HLoT, navigators et cetera) on Terra. They did (the heretics at least) do a lot of damage.
    Oh God, do not let things from Space Wolf influence you on fluff matters. That entire shtick where a bunch of crew members attack two Astartes with pipe wrenches and blow torches was a complete load of garbage and degraded thinking on the part of the crew (and by extention the writer, William King).

    (Yes, I'm aware of the undercurrent as to why this occured, but the comment from Ragnar was completely off-base.)

    In general, no, people do not mistrust Astartes, they fear them. There is an awe-struck quality of seeing an Astartes that most Imperial citizens have, but that feeling of awe is only equalled by the fear. Most people in the forty-second millenium are not actively aware of the Horus Hersey. To them it either doesn't exist or it is an obscure reference similar to Lucifier being thrown from heaven. It's a religious moment more than an actual history one. However, learned and high class individuals know slightly more (depending on their rank and file or association, how much), but the general population see things as religious dogma and myths; similar to how they view Astartes. Even on Terra, the event is held in much of a mythical quality and while many people there conceed that the Siege of Terra occured, it is much like the flood of Noah from the bible, an obscure tradegy veiled in religious subtext. Citizens of Terra certainly wouldn't mistrust Astartes based on the idea that traitors besieged their planet, after all, were there not the mighty defenders of the Emperor that ultimately (in their view) defeated the traitors, daemons, and heretics? Astartes are widely viewed as the Emperor's personal divine sons and the traitors as the fallen ones.

    As such, Astartes are seen as mythical figures, the Emperor's Angels as they're commonly called, and when encountered in real life (which most citizens will never see one), there is a jaw-dropping, bowel-loosening, and deeply religious experience that most loyal Imperial citizens will feel. Those who are disloyal and not completely batshit insane, will cower to near inaction at the sight of the Emperor's judgement made manifest.
    Last edited by Brenil; 14th Feb 09 at 5:32 PM.

  37. #37
    How do you know that there's not a Necron Tomb City under Terra? Have you been there, or are you one of GW "Loremasters"?

    Also, Necron Tombships can pop out in any corner of the galaxy, an entire Necron fleet could be in Terra in a blink, greatly damaging, if not destroying, Terra itself. And let's not forget that the Void Dragon may be under Mars, which is relatively near Terra.

    And IF there is (which is highly improbable, yet it is possible) a Necron City in Terra, the Necrons can just pop anywhere on there, via their phase technology. Let's remember that Necron scout ships have easily bypassed Terra's defences, just think if a fully fledged Necron Tombfleet teleported right in front of Terra...
    Those would be some very, very, very unlucky necron.

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  38. #38
    Member Saberdark's Avatar
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    Oh God, do not let things from Space Wolf influence you on fluff matters. That entire shtick where a bunch of crew members attack two Astartes with pipe wrenches and blow torches was a complete load of garbage and degraded thinking on the part of the crew (and by extention the writer, William King).

    (Yes, I'm aware of the undercurrent as to why this occured, but the comment from Ragnar was completely off-base.)
    Are you sure, because

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  39. #39
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    Necrons on Terra (from Horus Heresy book: 'Mechanicum')

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  40. #40
    Shyguy, the emperor kicked the dragon's injured tin can butt, then imprisoned the thing on Mars. If there were necron on Terra before the C'Tan came the Emperor would have been capable of eliminating them. For that matter the necron would poop themselves if they had to go up against custodes.

    Tomb worlds are tomb worlds because the necron scoured them of life to avoid having enslavers drop in for lunch while they slept away the interregnum between the war in heaven and now (40k), meaning Terra is not a tomb world.

    brenil:

    if you think space marines are regarded across the IoM in a good light think again.

    They are called the Angels of DEATH for a good reason, and its not just because its printed on their business cards.

  41. #41
    TheWarrior
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    And there's a reason why in his post he said they were "feared" across the imperium.

    Also, if you had bothered to read ShyGuy's post fully, you would have realized he never said the Void Dragon brought Necrons with him to Earth.

  42. #42
    In Mechanicum, did they drop all ambiguity about how the alien structures on Mars were maybe, probably, possibly maybe not the tomb of the Void Dragon?

    So, Terra has the Golden Throne and the Imperial Palace, the Astronomicon, lots of shrines, and lots of offices. Luna has many defensive batteries and the secret lab where the Primarchs and the Space Marines where created. Mars is the capital world of the Adeptus Mechanicus and greatest forge world. Titan is the home of the Grey Knights. Jupiter has lots of shipyards, according to Lexicanum.
    A lesser known fact is about Ganymede, a moon of Jupiter. After an explosion caused by some sort of experiment in warp travel, Ganymede was completely quarantined. There's a demon world in the Sol system!

    Is there any fluff on the rest of the solar system?
    Last edited by DrChristmas3K1; 19th Feb 09 at 4:45 PM.

  43. Tabletop Senior Member  #43
    Fluffy Necromancer Andkat's Avatar
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    Saturn's moons contain much more than just the homeworld of the Grey Knights. Indeed, it is on Saturn's moons that the Ordo Malleus is itself based, maintaining a secret empire from which it coordinates its operations, maintains its key assets, and conducts its highest deliberations. Mimas is an Ordo Malleus Inquisitorial Prison World, intended for the most dangerous, tainted, and repugnant of captives and fugitives, Enceladus is host to the palaces and facilities of the great Lords of the Ordo Malleus and the Ordo Malleus Grand Council, on Tethys is located the Librarium Daemonica, a vast repository of forbidden occult lore, and on Iapetus the Ordo Malleus maintains a considerable fleet base, used by the personal and requisitioned vessels of the Ordo Malleus as well as those retained by the Grey Knights.

  44. #44
    How 'bout Mercury & Venus? Are they devoid of life? Or were they somehow terraformed? The sun's probably too intense, at that range.

  45. #45
    me:

    "If there were necron on Terra before the C'Tan came the Emperor would have been capable of eliminating them. For that matter the necron would poop themselves if they had to go up against custodes."

    You: the warrior
    And there's a reason why in his post he said they were "feared" across the imperium.

    Also, if you had bothered to read ShyGuy's post fully, you would have realized he never said the Void Dragon brought Necrons with him to Earth.
    How the hell do you get that i said he said necrons came with the dragon from that? Read my post before you shoot off your idiot cannon.

  46. #46
    TheWarrior
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    And ShyGuy never said anyting of the sort either, which is what I was commenting on in my post. Nice try, do play again Dear Love.

  47. #47
    Member DougyM's Avatar
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    Long reply to the post aimed at me earlier by Green Tide...


  48. #48
    Member Zenoth's Avatar
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    Is a position or point in physical space that something occupies.
    Necrons have to be annihilated to an atomic level to be effectively destroyed (atomized), with no chance of any remnants or tinniest fragments and particles being teleported away from orbit or battle wherever it occurred to some nearby or pre-defined (before the assault is given) Tomb World and/or within a Monolith for entire reconstitution of the "body" of the machine itself.

    The Necrons are virtually invincible, and if they ever did spawn on Holly Terra's surface then atomizing an entire Necron army, certainly by using weapons of mass destruction (on a level that we wouldn't be able to imagine with our current technology) then Holly Terra would probably do much more damage by trying to annihilate the present Necrons than the amount of "damage" done to the Necrons themselves. There's a reason why no one goes to fight against the Necrons on purpose, they are the ones who come to you unless you find them before they do and you think you have a "chance".

    I'm not sure how it's been dealt with before, but I would assume that when a new planet is discovered and researches are done on its surface and its underground only to find a Necron Tomb with hundreds of millions of dormant Warriors or other forms of Necron machines they don't necessarily just say "well... let's just be quiet for a couple of thousands of years so we have time to build up on this new planet before they wake up and destroy everything we built in thousands of generations only to see it vaporized in Gauss fireworks within a day".

    The point is if the Necrons did send an invasion force on Holly Terra then I'm simply unsure of how long the Imperial Palace's shield would hold, even if it does effectively stop Necrons attempting to simply teleport themselves in front of the Throne itself before actually starting the battle on the surface. In other words, Necrons appearing en-masse on Holly Terra's orbit is an end story as much as the Orks uniting is one and as much as the final Tyranids invasion of the Milky Way is one as well. You just don't want something like that to happen.

  49. #49
    It takes time for them to repair the damage done though. And the Titan legions housed on nearby Mars would pose a serious threat assuming the Necrons don't have complete air superiority (in space, I mean). I think there are specialised teams for taking out Tombs in Tomb worlds.

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    You will see me again at the Gates of Saint Romanos...

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    Versus threads are not permissible on these forums. This rule extends to those thread that deal with planetary-scale invasions and racial conflicts. While evaluating the likelihood of a planet being a Tomb World, evaluating Necron logistics, etc. is fine when on-topic, speculating on the outcome of a hypothetical conflict involving a vast number of situational factors and unknowns is not.

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