Orks

[Jester Desu]

I'm struggling against Orks a bit.. mainly because I never really play against them. Clever use of a platform can usually see me owning most of the map and being ahead at the end of tier 1, but come tier 2 I get my ass handed to me by things running through my supression and I haven't found the greatest of tactics to counter... tier 3 is already lost by the time i reach it (if ever)

I wanna hear some of your tactics against massed slugga/shooter with tankbustas behind them. Is falcon a better choice than WL usually? Are Banshee an okay choice, considering they wont often be under punishing fire from much? How about tier 3? Does prism cannon get many shots off before being zerged usually?

[Sin Fang Bous]

D-Cannons and Prisms do really well against Orks from my experiences, but you've GOT to keep an eye on them or else they'll get swarmed. Orks tend to swarm together and hang out in big groups, and one or two shots from a DC or a FP will do some hurt.

But, yeah, I have problems with Orks too. I just tried playing with them for a few games and won all my matches. I used Nob and went around blowing up their generators and stabbing commanders

btw, not playing Eldar makes me realize just how hurting Eldar are right now.

[Brenil]

Are Banshee an okay choice, considering they wont often be under punishing fire from much? How about tier 3? Does prism cannon get many shots off before being zerged usually?

Banshees are good against Orks only if you have the Farseer in support. The Farseer's melee reduction aura, her buffs like Fortune, Guide, and Doom allow Banshees to utterly annihilate Sluggas in Tier 1 with the Farseer in direct support.

The problem with Orks is the very early game of map control. Sluggas are very fast when they lock onto a target and even when using Fleet of Foot they will nip at your Guardians' heels and cause casualities if you try and spirit yourself away. Where Orks falter is in their inability to diversify their army. They almost always go Sluggas, Shootas (usually just one squad), Stikkabombas, and then Tankbustas in Tier 2 with a Deff Dread or Wartrukk in support.

If you can survive the first three minutes against Orks you'll do well, otherwise you'll get overwhelmed early.

Here's a recent replay from 1vs1 ladder with myself as the Farseer against a Warboss (the toughest match-up hero for Eldar, in my experience), it illustrates my points well enough.

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=217478

In this match-up I tried to do my Banshees tactic but screwed up on the targetting for Fortune, which lead to their demise. What this flob shows is the importance of buffing Banshees against Orks, because if you don't, they're not even worth getting.

In Tier 2 and beyond, the key to victory are upgraded Banshees (preferably with Farseer buffs), a Falcon, and two or three Guardian squads. The Levitation Blade for the Farseer might be more useful in this instance than the Doomspear because of Orks keeness on mobbing up, thus making them perfect targets for mass Levitation. Tankbustas are pretty easy to deal with while using a Falcon because of their relevent short range and inaccuracy, usually meaning the Ork mob must screen for them, thus soaking damage from the Falcon and its support.

Once you get to Tier 3, a Fire Prism and shielded Falcon annihilates Orks wholesame. The Falcon, with support, can beat a Looted Tank no problem while a Fire Prism (or D-Cannon) will disrupt the entire horde itself. Couple this with Timestop armor and Eldritch Storm and you can seriously destroy a Tier 3 Ork army in a matter of seconds as Eldar.

[Jester Desu]

I use warlock generally, who kicks the warboss's ass when used with that shield lock thing. Tier 1 isn't an issue either because I manage to scare them off with platforms and guardians.

It's from tier 2 on I start to lose it... in my last game I just spammed wraithlords for lack of any better ideas! I can see how aoe units would rape them tier 3, but by then i've usually totally lost the map all but a small corner.

I reckon i'll go with the falcon in support of my supression units and perhaps a squad of rangers too... mass microing for me lol.

[Brenil]

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=217749

There's another replay against Orks who is using a Warboss. This replay demostrates the effectiveness of Banshees against Slugga-mass. It is using the Farseer again, but perhaps it may assist or give you some ideas.

The Falcon is definately a better choice against Orks due to how ineffective Tankbustas are at targetting it as opposed to the Wraithlord.

I reckon i'll go with the falcon in support of my supression units and perhaps a squad of rangers too... mass microing for me lol.

That's a bit redundant. I'm not too fond of Platforms against Orks namely because of Stikkabombas and WAAAGH, which breaks suppression. Rangers on the other hand are fine against them because of suppression when needed (and before WAAGH) and their high one target damage on low hitpoint Orks.

Also practice your plasma grenading, learn the art of spike-grenade retreating and you'll hurt Orks bad.

[Jester Desu]

Thanks for all the feedback Brenil By spike grenading do you mean nading at your feet then running away?

Keep the tips coming if anyone else has some... I reckon rangers are a dead cert against Orks... it's just I tend to get mine killed a lot lol.

[Brenil]

Grenade spiking is planting the plasma grenade at your feet against melee units and then hitting retreat immediately afterward, yes. It works wonders against Orks and Tyranids (the latter especially). Unfortunately some kind of bug or something appears every once and awhile where your grenadier gets knocked down and the entire squad stops, getting beat on, and wait for the grenadier to throw the grenade. If he dies, then the entire squad just kind of... sits there, unless you tell them to retreat a second time. Its a frustrating bug to an otherwise very useful tactic.

As for Rangers, just keep them at their max range behind your hero and Guardians, they'll stay alive quite easily unless jumped by teleport/jump troops, then you just FoF and retreat.

[Jester Desu]

Cheers again Brenil.

I just checked the forums and read back over your psot "da boyz, help" seems back then (all of a week ago lol) i was struggling against orks in tier 1! Now i cracked that it's tier 2, so expect a continuation post once i've mastered that lol.

[Oakwarrior]

Go for Falcons, they're definitely better than Wraithlords since tankbustas eat those. Falcons outrange any decent AV that the Orks have and if you manage to get 2 Falcons (1 falcon 1 banshee works great too), then you've basically won.

[Aokin]

when using the Warlock there is very little reason to challenge the Warboss, I rarely see the Mech Orc, however the Kommando might warrant opportune attention In most circumstances prioritise infantry, as it is very easy for the Warlock to engage Orc squads, exact a toll and when needed make away. Although the Champion Robe is quite useful for avoiding damage, the Immolater blade provides immediate results. Both are useful additions but I recommend only one in the early phase according to what is seen best for the given battle.

on the last point if you are using Shurikens with a Warlock then in all likelihood the Warp Gauntlets are also being selected. For which mana availability and usage needs to be rightly considered, there is often a use, but always casting will limit availability where full effect might be best accomplished. Reserving enough mana for Warp Throw is a practical, if (obviously) not strict, rule.

haha "Spammed Wraithlords" my understanding is that if you have the resources then you can 'spam' Falcons but never Wraithlords. A second Wraithlord would be very powerful at some points of a game and yet both are by themselves relatively weak. Once the first Wraithlord becomes available the next critical step is to determine what units will be used to follow in and support when an attack is made.

the Wraithlord is the front of a dedicated strike, the Warlock will be just ahead as a type of shock unit to spot, draw initial fire and Warp the furthermost or densest collection of anti-vehicle infantry. Performed correctly the Wraithlord will be closing on another group of anti-vehicle infantry, Shurikens will be setting up and Guardians will be launching a grenade towards the closest cluster (potential knockdown).

as tactics go, there is a necessary requirement of exchanging damage, the Wraithlord will take fire, the central aim is to minimise overall levels. In turn the Wraithlord will lead-in Eldar units more typically associated with attacking and moving, and once effectively placed in combat excel against a range of possible army designs during the early mid-game stage. Beyond this point the same tactic can be applied but the requirements become increasingly convoluted.

practice in public team games, the opportunity is there, even at the average level a mass of anti-vehicle can dispatch Wraithlords easily So it is a good place to learn how to coordinate a number of units into numerous firefights.

basically, if you are not sure what units best match a scenario go Falcon, the Falcon is much better as both an all purpose and self-contained selection.

lastly I would recommend trialling the Cloak of Shadows with Banshees, my results have been much better than expected, admittedly I am unsure what is happening to make the combination work so well so far. It might be that other players are overestimating the effect, whatever may be the case I recommend playing with cloaked Banshees for a week or so to assess their potential.

[eskimo]

Get two guardians a shuri cat and warlock with throw ability.

Hide guardian behind tree or somthing let orks rush! Throw all orks against wall nade them and BOOM as they get up! Luckily their annimation ends by the time the nade goes off so BOOM! then charge lock into shootas and your usual spells and firey burning one.

In second level I normally drop a falcon but only for reinforcing as those dam tank HUNTERS eat them when you have to micro 4 guard squads a lock and a falcon.

Don't forget when your opponent retreats follow up on power plants cause you don't wanna see those dam canz!!! Eldar AT = rubbish... im 1v1

[Brenil]

Eldar AT = rubbish!

Uh... what?

Brightlances are hardly rubbish AV, infact three shots from a Brightlance kills almost any vehicle and it has extreme range, that's not even counting when it is guided by a Farseer.

Wraithlords do fair AV damage with their Brightlance upgrade and do massive melee AV damage (they beat Deff Dreads soundly in 1vs1 melee combat).

Falcons do fair AV damage all around and are durable and easy to keep alive with micro. You can kite a Deff Dread to the ends of the Earth.

D-Cannons annihilate basically everything, including vehicles.

Fire Prisms with Focus Beam do very decent AV damage and with their splash beam do AoE AV (and AI) damage.

Then there's the Haywire grenades which are just awesome, the only bad thing is they come with those shitty Warp Spiders attached to them.

Eldar AV is very good, it just requires finesse and foresight. Brightlances are the best bet in a pinch, but hardly the only one.

[Jester Desu]

Jeez, let's not get into THIS one again

[Sin Fang Bous]

I just went up against a few Orks in a few 3v3 matches and got steamrolled. I just can't deal with the numbers. The Warboss will get to my FS and guardians before my Shuriken has time to get out and will tie up my guardians while 2-3 squads of sluggas just completely own the guardians and my FS.

I mean, what the hell am I supposed to do...?

[eskimo]

@ Braenil
Okay let me re do that one. Eldar AT in 1v1 not good.
The lance is unfortunitly easy to flank and the mek boy/kommando can easily dislodge them with grenade port.. you know the drill.

As for falcon. Deff dreads in pairs can kill falcon on majority jungle maps due to trees adding obstacles. but okay. Yes kitting does work beautifully I my self have killed alot of Dreads but its so hard to micro a falcon while dropping grenades on the floor from hordes of orks smacking you + casting warlock powers.

D-cannons = late game. I admitedly don't look to much into late game but same problem against mek and commando.

Prisms have a long charge time Which I personally dislike ALOT! But admitedly yes those do work against orks.. as for Warp spiders... they just die to easily... can't bear using them but yes they have their Niche times.

sorry for saying the bad Anti v thing... noticed its really touchy on this forum... Sorry Brae

[Aokin]

I think the issue with Eldar anti-vehicle options is not so much the lack of response to vehicles, but rather the linearity of these options. Almost all other selections from alternate armies are of use against infantry. The consequences can reverberate particularly at the later stages where Eldar vehicles become a vital component to their own counters.

once Warp Spiders are appropriately balanced Eldar strategy will be that much more influential.