Wolf Lords MOD - In Need of An Animator!

**Mephistoned** · 18th May 09 6:00 AM

Yes I may need to look at the legs again, it's been mentioned by others, though I think they look skinnier than they are in that heavily shadowed render. I often revisit models and tamper though. Spent most of Sunday inside the mouths of the grey wolf and Wolf of Fenris, rearranging the teeth, as I was not happy with the effect as was, and the original model had the mouth quite wrong. Trouble always is deciding what pose to set the wolf face in, as a snarling wolf looks very different from a more placid wolf and although I would love to animate the face in game, the retracting of gums, shortening of muzzle etc, just isn't practical. Might be able to do something with the ears though.

Possessed is not a bad comparison, and the arms are from possessed marines, though I have altered them more since.

**Uncle Benny** · 18th May 09 6:29 AM

Originally Posted by Chaplain261

Dogs of War, has some good werewolfs in it.

Do you mean Dog Soldiers? I'm assuming you just have Winterdyne's mod on your mind...

OT: Anyone who hasn't seen Dog Soldiers, you simply must. Marvelous!

**gerberman** · 18th May 09 7:38 AM

They need to be more human like... I cannot look at them seriously as anything like what they are supposed to represent. Having humans warp so significantly toward animal like features is just weird... Your talking about a complete restructuring of musculoskeletal features which as much as this is WH40K and outrageous to the core, this is a step too far..!!

**Mephistoned** · 18th May 09 8:22 AM

A step too far even for WH40K? You flatter me Gerb! But in truth, they're just werewolves, and a fairly classical representation of werewolves at that.

Hey ho. I guess if that's a step too far for you then you're REALLY not going to like the Little Red Riding Hood relic unit we had planned for T4...

**gerberman** · 18th May 09 8:42 AM

Hey man, woe be to those who underestimate Little Girl Red.

**Mephistoned** · 18th May 09 8:44 AM

You should see the blast radius of her apple grenades. Kaboomski.

**Chaplain261** · 18th May 09 1:45 PM

davisbe, thanks for the correction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaplain261
Dogs of War, has some good werewolfs in it.
Do you mean Dog Soldiers? I'm assuming you just have Winterdyne's mod on your mind...
OT: Anyone who hasn't seen Dog Soldiers, you simply must. Marvelous!

And yes it is a great movie I also suggest you all see it, especially if you want to see some good werewolfes.

**Mephistoned** · 18th May 09 9:20 PM

Dog soldiers. Ha - I've seen it. Silly but fun. But yes the werewolves were pretty good - no denying that. Anyway that's kind of the direction I'm aiming in + power armour fragments obviously.

There's a new Wolf Man movie coming out this year I believe - which fits more into GW's original concept for the Wulfen. Problem is the facial layout for a Wolf Man is not that different from a normal Space Wolf. Ragnar will look very savage facially - hence my desire to do something more with the Wulfen so that they are clearly the uber relic unit they deserve to be.

**Richter** · 19th May 09 4:53 AM

Not like this? Wulfen

**Mephistoned** · 19th May 09 1:19 PM

Sorry man - just doesn't do it for me.

**Chaplain261** · 19th May 09 2:26 PM

Yeah looks like the Beast/Prince in Beauty in the Beast, but with power armor. JK, but yeah doesn't do it for me either, good to hear your going in another direction. Good luck.

**Fallen Angel Ez** · 19th May 09 2:44 PM

I own the DVD of dog soldiers, you just want space marines with feral looks really. Oh and claws....

**Mephistoned** · 19th May 09 11:36 PM

We'll probably see GW go in a new direction with them at some point too - they often redesign collections with time, though not always for the best. Anyone see those AWFUL Tyranid with the skinny Carnifex? Someone had a really bad day at GW HQ hahahah. Thankfully they were swiftly replaced with something far superior.s

**Chaplain261** · 20th May 09 2:16 PM

Well not just as a were wolf, but like Mephistoned says, with bits of power armor on different parts of the Wulfen's body.

**Mephistoned** · 22nd May 09 2:09 AM

Be interesting to see how they work ingame. Individually they're not very impressive as relic units go, but since you can potentially have up to five of them... collectively they might equal a Greater Knarloc for melee output, though they are nowhere near as tough.

**fuggles** · 22nd May 09 2:33 AM

I rather imagine that they will work as PSM's, no?

**potemkis** · 22nd May 09 9:49 AM

Awesome models! Can't wait to see them with SW textures though- they look a little odd with the Blood Ravens textures and wolfie bitz lol

**Mephistoned** · 22nd May 09 10:40 AM

Yes the Wulfen are pretty similar to possessed - but nastier, and individual models - so almost characters in a sense. They cause fear too - rather like flayed ones.

Yeah I would ALSO like to see them with textures. But I'm still learning the arcane art of unwrapping from various disparate sources, so I could REALLY use a tutor to give me a few pointers. so if anyone fancies giving up a little of their time - we will have SW textures in no time. I really should PM that mentor list.

Anyway am on a roll with the models at the moment so I'll keep doing modelling for the time being. Have also emailed a few people in the community on model requests - hoping for a response soon so I don't have to reinvent the wheel. Nothing like standing on the shoulders of giants. Big love goes out to the C2C team - they're the men!

**Lleman** · 22nd May 09 11:04 AM

the Wulfen are pretty similar to possessed - but nastier, and individual models- so almost characters in a sense.

Regarding your wulfen, don't you think they'll be shunned or used with reluctance since, being 1-man squads, they'll need to be micro'd a lot to 1) be used pertinently & 2) get a longer life expectancy since in the end tiers the opponent(s) too might have access to some very potent damage-dealing units while the wulfen won't be as resilient as hero units?

**Mephistoned** · 22nd May 09 3:16 PM

Oh poor werewolves. Shunned? Reluctance? <Sobs quietly>

Joking aside Lleman does make some valid points here, some of which I have considered. Yes they will require micro - which could be a pain, though you are free to take 1 or 5 Wulfen, it's up to you. Also remember that the SW army is rather smaller than a normal marine army, and since the units tend to be all-rounders, it will probably need less micro as a whole. If it were to prove too fiddly we could put the Wulfen into a single unit. However, grant us the licence to try a different kind of relic unit - one fragmented into smaller parts.

Wulfen are perhaps better thought of as harrassing units that can be a thorn in the opponent's side, like a death-cult assassin or wraith- and they are fairly tough, even for later tiers, and considerably more powerful than these above mentioned units. They suit a different style of play - and sewn in amongst a CC army they could reap a terrible toll. If you want one single uber relic unit then select Bjorn or the Land Raider instead.

There are also some more subtle tactical advantages to the Wulfen. Your wolf scouts could already be near the enemy base when you transform them, scouts that are about to die could be saved, the enemy may engage the scouts with a suitable counter, only to find them change into a different prospect altogether, a scout equipped with a missile launcher may face infantry against which it has little use, but can be instantly made effective by being upgraded into a Wulfen. Etc.

And let's not forget the cosmetic - who doesn't want to see Wulfen leaping upon the enemy?

**Mephistoned** · 24th May 09 7:25 AM

There's a cookie with someone's name on it for the first person who guesses which existing Dawn of War model had its head turned into a Wolf Guard

Clue

**fuggles** · 24th May 09 10:09 AM

I'd go for the librarian. He of the long build time.

**ChiefScout** · 24th May 09 12:41 PM

i know, but i shant say...

**Richter** · 25th May 09 1:20 AM

Ill take a stab.... Force commander, although thats most likely wrong at this time...

**Chaplain261** · 25th May 09 10:55 AM

Space Marine Sergeant. Hell if I know

.

**Mephistoned** · 25th May 09 11:02 AM

And the internet cookie goes to... Sorry fellas you're all wrong - it's the IG general from SS.

**Chaplain261** · 25th May 09 11:04 AM

Ahhh I was thinking about that once I posted, can I at least get half a cookie

.

**Mephistoned** · 25th May 09 12:18 PM

Go on then - 'ave a nibble. Btw - Chaplain - since you're such a stalwart fan - no chance you fancy learning to mod eh? It's not as hard as it looks. Well actually it's harder - but it can be learnt - I knew nothing two months back. And it's worth it! It really is.

**Richter** · 26th May 09 12:07 AM

Go chappy! Learn learn learn!!!

Ah.... Ig general.... Dang it...

**Fallen Angel Ez** · 26th May 09 5:54 AM

I thought the wulfren had wolf like features? Not completely wolf like in that picture in your first post? Looks great anyway

**Mephistoned** · 26th May 09 8:08 AM

Yep - new direction for the Wulfen. You can read through the earlier posts for the full debate - it has caused a degree of controversy, but that's all well and good. It's a model that has already evolved further, and will probably do so more before it's finished. However, considering that all the space wolf models are looking pretty feral, I maintain that a little more fur here and there won't be enough. I want werewolves! I want Lycans! I want Hugh Jackman!

**Fallen Angel Ez** · 26th May 09 9:15 AM

Fair play then

**Chaplain261** · 26th May 09 1:05 PM

I can't quite put my tongue on what type of cookie that was

, but considering modding, of course I would love to learn and help everyone I could, but I don't have the money at the moment to buy the programs.

I don't expect, I know the wulfen and the rest of this mod will be spectacular.

**Richter** · 26th May 09 2:23 PM

Ah your talking bout modelling then are you Chappy? Yes true they cost, but not the mod tools and such.

If thats wat Meph meant?

**ChiefScout** · 26th May 09 3:16 PM

i know for a fact that a OE man (or woman) would be welcome and as far as i know thats free
not that were pressuring you here

**Kresjah** · 26th May 09 3:48 PM

Originally Posted by Chaplain261

I can't quite put my tongue on what type of cookie that was

, but considering modding, of course I would love to learn and help everyone I could, but I don't have the money at the moment to buy the programs.

I don't expect, I know the wulfen and the rest of this mod will be spectacular.

So, let me show you how to help people in the community without paying money.

SCAR coding: notepad.exe ... it comes with Windows.

Attribute (stats/units) coding: write it notepad.exe and burn it with Corsix Mod Studio, the latter is free and the former very likely comes with the operating system your using (I mean, since the great majority of people here seem to use Windows).

3D models: There are several free 3D modelling apps. Wings3D (which iirc Palii used to make most of his models, including Elysians) and Blender to name two. They may not be able to export to Dawn of War, but you can still make and save your models there, then ship them off to someone who owns 3D Studio Max to have them export it for you.

Preparing exported models for game: The fabled Object Editor. It comes with the Dawn of War Mod Tools, it's free for you then. People would probably don't mind help in preparing their exported models for game. Even if you export a model, you still have to link things up to game actions so that it plays out properly (e.g. the game needs to be told what parts of the models to show/hide depending on weapons upgrades). Basically bridging the gap between modelling and code.

Creating tools: Well, there's probably some tools which haven't been made yet that could ease the life of your generic modder, and there's a bunch of programming languages that don't need money investments. Heck, I've used PHP, a programming language designed with dynamic WEB content in mind, to read and convert DoW2 attribute files from binary to text.

So, there you have it, now you should be able to actually help the community, since all of the above things I mentioned are free.

EDIT: Oh, two more I forgot...

Map making: There's probably a few mods who wouldn't mind some exclusive maps made for them to further advertise their mods. It's called something like World Editor or Mission Editor. An exclusively free offer just for you and every one else who downloads the Dawn of War Mod Tools.

Texturing: Ahh, there's something I know quite a few mods could need some help with. And you don't even need to shell out for it. There exists free graphics editings apps with quite some capabilities, e.g. the Gimp.

**Chaplain261** · 26th May 09 8:58 PM

Thank you for all your help, I'll make an effort to learning how to use these tools of the trade

.

**Mephistoned** · 27th May 09 12:45 AM

Ok - let's break it down. Here's how things stand.

We have:

Chiefscout coding and doing certain pieces of art - UI and icons at present

Spartan'd is also coding

Gerb is doing mysterious work on a more codex SW build.

Thud is raring to go with AI as soon as the build is perfected, and is advising all and sundry.

I (Meph) am modelling at present, but I intend to learn to cover all aspects of the 3D side - ie. skinning, rigging, animating and texturing

So as Chief says - we could really use someone to get to know the object editor - which is what controls the models actions, and matches up the sounds they make, upgrades and so on.

We also need someone to become an fx artist which is I believe comparitively simple and should be great fun.

If someone could get on with rigging and animating so I could concentrate on textures and models, that would speed us forward no end.

So, Chaplin, there have already been dark mutterings in the wolf's den about how you could best serve the chapter. Point is, if you are willing to learn/ teach yourself (and we are all self-taught - it took me about two weeks to get my head round the basics of 3D max), we can use you - even if you are not artistically gifted (or think you aren't).

This is an amazing opportunity to become part of a flourishing mod while the doors are still open. And this mod WILL go all the way, even if Scout falls of a cliff, Spartan'd falls on his sword and I find myself still banging away in 20 years while the rest of you are all playing Dawn of War 5 - Relic's new role-playing game where you play the entire campaign from the PoV of Sammy the Gretchin (the way relic is going that's where it's going to end up - you know it!).

I'll PM you later Chaplin! And as for the rest of you - don't be shy! Especially you GUESTS out there- yes I know you're there, I can smell you even if I can't see you. Truth is - two months ago, I was just like you, not even a member, just watching from the sidelines. But I wanted to see SW in DoW and decided it was time to stop just watching others work miracles. So if you feel inspired - step up. Don't worry about skills. Don't worry about costs (there won't be any). All you need is time. You will be very welcome indeed!

**Chaplain261** · 27th May 09 6:34 PM

Working on learning right now

, plan to be in business soon.

**ChiefScout** · 28th May 09 1:57 AM

good man!
out of intrest which skill are you learing?

**Richter** · 28th May 09 4:18 AM

Thanks Kresjah! Im checking them out now....

**Kresjah** · 28th May 09 6:18 AM

Sorry to bring this a bit off-topic Mephistoned, but I'd just like to bring in the final words on the matter of free tools and possibility to learn. I'll let this be my last post on the subject so I won't drag it further off.

---

Guys, as much as I like being appreciated, don't thank me. Just... make an effort to research in the future. Pretty much all this information I gave you is easily available.

Take texturing for example. You could have checked the tutorials section to see what it said on texturing. If it recommended use of Photoshop which is not free at all, open a new browser window, head to google, and search for "free alternative to photoshop".

If you had looked in the tutorials section on stats editing (attribute editing), you would have seen that it's just a matter of downloading the Dawn of War Mod Tools (if you want to use the Attribute Editor) or Corsix Mod Studio (which I use, as I code my stuff in notepad then use Corsix to convert to game usable files), both of which are free. If these official mod tools weren't stuff offered freely for DoW1, do you think there would be such a debacle regarding the potential release of DoW2 mod tools?

Use the search buttons, use google, just do some research before automatically concluding "I don't have money for this" and "I'm not worthy", etc.

**Mephistoned** · 28th May 09 3:50 PM

Stern words from the certifiably insane. However no need to apologise Kresjah - since you've helped the new potentials along their way.

If I may however, say a word on behalf of newbies (such as myself) - whilst it is true all the information is there somewhere (and Emperor be praised for all those who have taken the time to produce tutorials), it is not exactly collated. I've had to read through many many threads, and visit many different sites and sources, to get all the answers I need, and there's the issue of - well that thread was for Dark Crusade, does this work for Soulstorm - etc. And there are still some areas not fully covered. Often one thread provides part of the answer, and you need to go hunting for the rest of it. There's also a fair bit of converting, foldering etc to be done before one can even BEGIN to tamper.

You are absolutely right that the right google search can yield a lot - but the whole thing IS quite daunting to begin with - and I know I found the learning curve quite steep (and still do in some aspects). It's not all conveniently laid out in a step-by-step manual (mmmh- maybe I should produce one once I get the hang of all this). Besides which - we're men - since when did we ever want to look at the instructions?

So be gentle with us newcomers. You were like us, maybe, once.

On a lighter note I bear gifts - don't forget to check out Ragnar in the showcase!

**Kresjah** · 28th May 09 4:41 PM

I was gonna let my last post be the last one on that matter, but I'm sorry, I'm too passionate about this whole modding community that I can't help but reply on that matter yet again.

I'll be straight and honest with you, I think half of your post is just wrong. You are correct in the fact that not all posts and tutorials reveal all at once of information you may need to learn everything you need to make a successful mod. I will give your post that.

However, I've been with this community since around Nov 2004, and what I see is an increasing amount of (to the point where it is really turning me off the community) people who go under the philosophy of expecting to be served on a silver platter.

Look again at the information I gave here earlier, and take a look in the tutorials section and the main page of Adeptus Modificatus. By that time, five words should have been burnt into your retinas; "Dawn of War Mod Tools". It should be blatantly obvious what the next step would be if you're serious about wanting to learn to mod... it does not take a rocket genious to find out if that is free software or not (and it is free), and even with half a brain you should still be able to grab a copy of it and install it.

I don't expect people to learn everything at once, I don't expect people to understand everything at once. I've been doing coding for this game (.LUA files) for 4 1/2 years, I'm a veteran, I can do this shit with hands tied behind my back... and you know what? I'm still learning new stuff all the time. Just ask Lleman, Gorb and Julian, they'll tell you that even today I suddenly get these crazy ideas and learn to code something completely new. Learning takes time.

However, we're in 2009, using search functions should be a common practice of any modern internet citizen. Wondering about something? Forum search and Google search first. There are so insanely many topics on Adeptus Modificatus with questions on how to do something, that can be found of the very first page of the search results if they had done some searching. Do I expect people to become a guru overnight? Not at all. Do I expect people to at least make a bloody effort to do the most BASIC types of actions under the category of research, namely try the search functions? Yes. The very least they can do is do a basic search and check the tutorials section. That section is there for a reason. If they can do that before they ask, then I don't mind.

This all said, I'm going to single you out for a moment, and have the coming generation of modders look at you. I'm not going to say something negative about you now, quite the opposite. You're a marvellous example of how it should be done. I don't always see eye to eye with you on the creative process, I don't always agree with your ideas. For example, I prefer the traditional Wulfen rather than the "Werewulfen" you have made, but this is preference nonetheless. What you have done is that you have made an effort. You want to learn, you try to learn and you make an effort.

Asking questions like "what tools do I need?" is in a majority of cases nothing but lazyness. The tutorials section should cover the majority of those questions in one way or another, and if not, you do a search first. For any of us who know the answer and have been here for more than two months, we've pretty much grown tired of answering the same questions three times a week because people don't bother searching or even checking what topics are on the first page of a forum section.

Again, I'm sorry for derailing, but I'm passionate about this community. It's given me some of my best friends, a whole heap of memories I treasure, and just generally a lot of fun. However, having been here as long, it seems to be that it's in a gradual decline with a lot of the new generation modders (but far from all of them of course). It's just getting fewer and becoming farther between the time we see proper effort being done. It seems to be a community that has grown too big really... before it was the "hardcore" members who joined, the ones who were willing to do something for it. Now everyone including your grandma and your three year old is here throwing about all kinds of stuff. One of my favourity places is imploding upon itself. :\

I get passionate, and while I try to avoid derailing threads and keeping stuff on-topic, sometimes I can't keep it in.

I wish you the best of luck on your current and future projects, and hope you will continue modding and continue showing us what you can do by putting in a little effort.

**Mephistoned** · 28th May 09 10:48 PM

Many thanks for that Kresjah. I agree that a little bit of effort goes a long way - and we here in the second generation are certainly benefitting from the work of the pioneers in the field. There must have been a lot of experimentation and frustration when all this began.

I'm sure some do expect it on a silver platter, but then if we COULD give it to them in a more accessible form - well wouldn't that be a good thing? I don't think the path of enlightenment should be intentionally hard - a series of Illuminati devised puzzles that an initiate has to solve to prove he's worthy. After all, even after the information is found, one still has to learn how to apply it, and do so well. I can understand though how, after 4 years plus, someone jumping on and saying 'hey, how do I mod' could certainly see naive to the point of irritation. Then again - by that thinking - children are irritating for trying to speak. Haha.

I applaud your passion - we all share it, or none of us would be here.

**Richter** · 29th May 09 7:41 AM

Im going with meph, in that it is very spread out, but Kresjah speaks truth in searching goddamn it! But honest to god, i myself did search, and many a time at that, specifically for DoW...
I was thanking you for your list, which has pointed me to wings3d (blender chucked a goddamn hissy, ill try again later).
Your passion is incredible Kresjah. People like you keep this place worth coming to.

Back on topic, Ragnar is coming along nicely. The sword should be a lot bigger! and the hair, also. Your deviating from THIS ?

**Mephistoned** · 29th May 09 1:28 PM

Hadn't seen that one actually Richter - that's another version again! You're probably right about frostfang - I was thinking the same thing (though it is already bigger than the FC sword - believe it or not!). I think the hair is about right though - too big and he just becomes top heavy - or turns into Abaddon - ha!

**Richter** · 29th May 09 6:23 PM

Woah! That big eh? Yeah thats probably right..... Abaddon with fangs.... haha...

**Mephistoned** · 30th May 09 1:02 AM

Ay. Ragnar presented an interesting problem - as the original GW model, though beautiful, was never designed to be animated! It's full of hanging things, chained together - which means that were Ragnar to raise his arms he'd get all tangled in his own decorations most likely. So I found an excellent Ragnar conversion online by Vincetti (sounds like an Italian master) to base the man on.

This is a seriously pared down Ragnar, without backbanners or shoulder wolf pelt or cloak. However, I think this is actually a good thing as it makes Ragnar look younger (a Wolf Lord at the beginning of his career) and still very much the warrior. It also, on a practical level, allows me to make him very agile and acrobatic in his fighting style. I'm hoping to produce syn kills that would do Wrestlemania proud - hehe!

We'll see how he looks on the battlefield though - he still needs to stand out after all. It's the work of a moment to give him a wolf cloak.

**Richter** · 30th May 09 1:13 AM

BooYah! Thats a cool as conversion!!! Yep i get your direction now, itll do ragnar justice easily....

Wolf Lords MOD - In Need of An Animator!

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