Space Marines Army List 2000 Pts. Competitive - C&C Please!

[Aquila]

Ok, put this list together in November, first attempt with the new codex, due to work I've only had a couple of chances to play with it. Managed to tie both but I'm disappointed with the performance so far. I'm planning to make a few changes but I would love to get some feedback from you guys first.

I'm no powergamer but I would like a more efficient, competitive and BALANCED list with no points wasted on stuff that doesn't matter. Balance is key here, I want a 'take all comers' list that can adapt, so please no themed suggestions (i.e. all dreads, all drop pods, etc.)

With that being said, I am open to all recommendations and criticism - anything that will help me improve the list. I've also got way too many Space Marine models so I can field just about anything.

Changes I'm currently considering:
Dropping one assault squad for another Tac Squad or AssTermies
Switching Dreadnought missle launcher to power fist
Switching Chaplain for Captain/Librarian
Rhino/Drop Pod for Sternguard
Upgrade Tac Rhino to Razorback

What do you think?


ORIGINAL LIST
HQ
Chaplain
Jump Pack
Digital Weapons

HQ Total 125

Troops
Tactical Squad
Additional Squad Members 5
Flamer
Missile Launcher
Power Weapon
Razorback w/ Heavy Bolters

Tactical Squad
Additional Squad Members 5
Flamer
Missile Launcher
Power Weapon
Rhino

Scout Squad
Additional Squad Members 5
Sniper Rifles
Heavy Bolter

Troops Total 590

Elites
Sternguard Veteran Squad
Additional Squad Members 5
Powerfist 25

Dreadnought
Multi-Melta
Storm Bolter

Dreadnought
Twin Linked Lascannon
Missile Launcher

Elites Total 505

Fast Attack
Assault Squad
Additional Squad Members 5
Flamers 2
Powerfist

Assault Squad
Additional Squad Members 5
Plasma Pistols 2
Powerfist

Fast Attack Total 480

Heavy Support
Whirlwind

Vindicator

Thunderfire Cannon

Heavy Support Total 300

Army Total 2000

[ProPain83]

I dont think I like this list... I think its a little all over the place.

For my 1500 pt currently I'm considering
Librarian.
5x5man tactical squads, 5 razor backs with twin linked heavy bolts.
3 Ironclad Dreadnaughts
3 Vindicators.

I have as many marines almost, as much long range hitting power, and enough assault to make my 1500 points not a push over compared to your 2000. (EDIT - written before I realised that your list said 5 ADDITIONAL men. Still, there seemed to lack a cohesion on manuverable and non manuverable elements)


May I suggest,

2 thunderfire cannons, and predator with heavy bolters (guard duty) for your long range peppering that you appear to like.

2 assualt squads 10 man with razor backs.

2 10 man tactical squads with Rhinos, and multimelta. Use them in tactical squads, and have the multi melta shoot out of the rhino's fire point until the rhino is killed.

2 dreadnaughts, no upgrades

1 sterngaurd 10 man in razorback, upgrade to Twin Linked Las Cannons, this will draw fire off of your rhinos with the multi meltas.

This comes to 1640 points. And its relatively close to your line up, From here, you can get another 5 man tactical squad with Drop Pod, and a drop pod for each dreadnaught as one option, or you can buy a scout squad and upgrades ofr units... depending on your tastes.

At the end of the day, this gives A solid long range fire base with a model capable of chewing up most thigns that might land in via deepstrike, also you have 5 sterngaurd and 2 5 man assualt squads, and 2 10 man tactical squads to scream forward in vehicles to support the drop of the 2 dreads. You then have 2 5 man assualt and a 5 man sterngaurd to manuver as u please covering their flank or stealing attacking flankers. You also have a 5 man drop that will land on yrou reserve roll to reinforce where you need to... If you buy ONE HQ and run him rather vanilla, you have 75-100 points to spend on upgrades such as power fists, power weapons, or what ever...

What do you think?

[lolcats09]

Switching Dreadnought missle launcher to power fist
Switching Chaplain for Captain/Librarian

I think you should give those two a try out at least.

2 assualt squads 10 man with razor backs.

Assualt Squads in razorbacks? Just wondering what the point of that is, i think the assualt squads would be better off on there own, cutting the razorbacks to put points elsewhere.

[ProPain83]

You dont have to put them inside if you dont want, but you have 2 manuverable line of sight blockers with guns for CHEAP. They are in my opinion one of the best all round points for power units in the game.

[lolcats09]

oooohhhhhh ok gotcha lol

[Xenith]

...you seem to be missing the point that a 10 man assault squad cannot fit into a razorback?

Also, the multi melta cannot fire out of the rhinos fire point if the rhino moves. This also wastes the remaining firepower of the 9 other guys inside.

If you want a mobile multimelta, take an attack bike...

5 man sternguard like that will die dat, they need protection. drop pod wont work, as theyll come down 1st turn, and attempt to hit a full strength opposing unit, and will die in opponents 1st/2nd turn. either get the stren and mm dread pods, or get the stern a razorback.

I also strongly feel that drop pods and ordnance/barrage weapons do not mix at all. youre likely to hit your own dudes.

Basically, you lack any kind of long range or dedicated anti tank weapons, at best the dread works, but wont take out a land raider, and will die fast at this point level.

[ProPain83]

The Assault squads arent really meant to fit inside it. but they certain fit behind or to the side of it, giving them cover saves, or total cover.

The Rhino's with multimeltas cant shoot on the move, but they can certainly move at pace for the first 2 turns before sitting and shooting, and its 4 guys that cant shoot, as you have a 5 man combat squad jump out or never mount up. Whilst they cant shoot, they also can not be shot, but mainly, can not be assaulted. The only way for them to be tied up in hadn to hadn combat, is to kill teh rhino, and then assault the disembarked marines... as they can plop out to either side or rear of the tank, you can protect them well.
If the rhino is shot dead in the enemy shooting phase, they auto disembark, and can shoot in the following turn. Regardless, can you post up your new list please with the changes you decided on.

I really cant suggest drop pods for stern gaurd... never forget they have extended range aswell as close range. Try to utilise every aspect of them. They can move forward and shoot at 15 inches, that should be enough for them to not realy need a transport.

[Fixer]

Get some pods for the Dreadnoughts.

First pod with ranged weapons drops first turn, provides mobile fire support. Second one outfit with a heavy flamer and drop into the middle of the enemy force for burny goodness.

[Xenith]

They can move forward and shoot at 15 inches

Nope, rapid fire range is 12", not half the range of the weapon, check the bbb.

5 marines sitting in the open will die fast, especially expensive ones.

you could probably sacrifice the whirlwind or thunderfire to get a pod or two or other transport.

[ProPain83]

I've suggested an illegal list, Assault Sqauds cant have Razor Backs, sorry for that. Since the inclusion of Vangaurd Vets, I dont often look at Assault Marines. Scrap the razor backs from them, in the list I suggested, and get some power fists and combi melta's or such. It's still a good idea to have the assault marines bouncing up behind some tanks tho ;-) They tend to get heavily targetted if you dont make them difficult to kill.