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Keep in mind, i was thinking you had to build every system, so as you built the ship, you would then have to build the integrals to make it spaceworthy. And i knew the multipliers were wrong, but i didn't know what they were supposed to be. (note: Xentronium is 10x. Im pretty sure on that)
I think i solved the weapon subsystem problem, but only if subsystems can have multiple weapons. Is that possible? Also, does it matter what family of the build menu something is in?
Sure, subsystems can have as many weapons as you want...
I don't think the build family matters...
What are you getting at?
Heres the idea:
We have ye olde frigate here. Its build menu has all of the normal categories. Its divided like this
----------
Fighter
Point Defense
Corv
Norm
Frig
Hvy(stellar)
Cap
Missles/torps
Plat
Bombs/bio/Fighterbay
Util
Subsys Group I
Sub
Subsys Group II
Sens
Subsys Group III
----------
For example, the point defense menu would look like this
PD Laser Bank
PD Mass Driver Bank
PD Neutron Blaster Bank
PD Phasor Bank
PD Gauss Cannon Bank
PD Disrupter Bank
PD Particle Beam Bank
... and then repeated, so you could have multiple of the same weapon bank. The exception being stellar converters. Only titans and doom stars can mount them and they can only have one.
Now a frigate could only support one weapon bank, so it actually wouldnt have to be repeated.
On a doom star however, it can support 6 (one per size class). The banks however would cover the ship. A doom star scale bank would be several turrets all over the ship, equally spaced to allow the other 5 banks.
This way, the ships would be fairly easy to customize, but would still allow for radically different ships.
Also, each ship can have twice its size class in special subs.
So, think this would work?
Yes.
You can consolodate a bit though:
----------
Fighter / Corv / Fighterbay
Point Defense
Norm
Hvy(includes stellar converter)
Missles/torps <-----| Maybe we an merge these with Bombs/bio?
Bombs/bio <--------|
Frig, destroyers, cruisers
Battleship, titan, doom star
Subsys Group I - Ship subsystems
Subsys Group II - Planet only subsystmes
Subsys Group III - Racial Bonus subsystems?
Sub <-- |What would we put here?
Plat <-- | Do we even need these?
Util <-- | Do we even need these?
Sens <-- | Do we even need these?
----------
#105
Plats - could be used for Artemis, but not really necessary, unless you wanna have scanner upgrades or something, a planet could build them to gain hyper sensors or something... take some load off the subsystems.
So what would be the difference between a bio bomb and a regular bomb in our mod?
I want them spread out so there arent 30 options in one category. Besides, this is only the ship build menu. the planetary one would be something like this
----------
Fighter:
Fighters/Assault Shuttles
Corvette:
Frigates through Titans
Frigate:
Colony ship/transports/stellar scaffolding
Capital:
Military Buildings
Util:
Domestic Buildings
Plat:
Population Subs
Sub and Sens are uneeded
The reason doom stars arent on there is I figured they should be built from stellar scaffolding, which also builds planets
And as for the difference between Bombs and Bioweaps:
Bombs can target any building or population sub. If their on fighters, they can be used on capital ships (frigate and above). Bombs would do sphereburst damage so even if your targeting one thing on a planet, you would damage others.
Bioweaps would only damage population subs, and would be much more damaging than bombs. Since a planet without population is useless, once the planet has been bioed you can capture and still have the other buildings.
Sam, the fighter/corv/frig etc. in the first section doesn't mean building them, its the old HW2 menu placement. Sorry for confusing you
Oh.... I see now.
Although this is pretty much just the same as you said, this is my recomendation:
Point Defense -ship only
Normal -ship only
Hvy(includes stellar converter) -ship only
Missles/torps/bombs/bio - ship only
Ship subsystems - ship only
Fighter / Corv / Fighterbay - both, although the planets fighterbay is bigger
Frig, destroyers, cruisers - planets and starbases only
Battleship, titan, doom star - planets with starbases only
Possibly a category for Star Bases and the like? - planets only.
Planet subsystmes - planets only
Planetary weapon systems - planets only
Racial Bonus subsystems - Home planets only
#108
So a planet can build ships up to a certain size, then it needs a starbase to enable it to build a spacedock-like scaffolding which will then be able to construct the big ships?
Well, the starbase could build bigger ships than the planet, and then to build really big ships (doom star and maybe titan), you would have to build stellar scafolding.
I dunno, we'll just do it how it is in MOO.
Last edited by thesamonthemoon; 21st Dec 03 at 12:50 PM.
Well in MOO2 its: Planet can build frigates and IIRC destroyers. For anything larger, at least a starbase was needed.
I just thought the stellar scaffolding made sense for doom stars since doom stars are supposed to be so huge. Also, since stellar scaffolding would be fairly weak, it would make it difficult to get doom stars. Its the same principle as the HW2 BC and shipyard
Also, the ship subsystems should be divided into multiple build families, otherwise you would have to search through all 30-odd subs to find the one you want for the ship
Oh my god! This really sounds like a great mod! I hope all this you've been discussing right now can be realized!
I'd love to see this mod in action
#112
OK guys, I guess the holidays are gone, so ist most of my food... time to get back to work.
Regarding the website I have some bad news, my web designer had a skiing accident and is still in the hospital. I will try to find some1 else to do the website.
I played a few MOO2 games in the last two weaks (got owned, too) and had a few thoughts:
-This is just "cosmetic", but it would look really cool if we could replace the standard hyperspace effekt with the MOO hyperspace, it would make the game more "authentic". Not high-priority, though
-I think we should limit the tech tree at first. It can always be expanded later, but for now we might wanna scale it down a little, it is pretty huge and complex as it is.
-Is there any way at all to implement swarmers for fighters?
-The planetary minefields could be a problem, if you put them too close to the planet they will constantly hit ships that are attacking the planet, even though in MOO they only pass through the field once. But if you put them far enough outside they would be huge, and I dont think we have that much space.. we dont want the minefields of two planets right next to each other...
-We could implement the Antarans with a modified "Traders Hell" (check it out in the completed mods forum) script.
-Have we found a way yet to ensure that battlestations are kept up-to-date, i.e. are always equipped with the latest weapons etc?
-What about shields?
So I guess those questions/thoughts are enough to start us off. Hope y'all had a wonderful christmas and a good start into the year 2004 (can you believe it? Ppl thought we would have flying cars by now not too long ago....)
1. You mean the antaran hyperspace effect (which I'm pretty sure is the only one you get to see) ?
The antaran hyperspace effect strikes me as somewhat similair to the B5 jumpgate effect, and I'm preety sure someone has made that... http://forums.relicnews.com/showthre...threadid=22381
I think I could add some depth to the hyperspace effect too...
2. *shrug*
3. What do you mean by "swarmers"?
4. It could best be implemented in the game script (whenever N ship enters a radius around an artemis equiped planet, it takes X damage).
5. Nice Idea! One of us should ask Age2uN.
6. Haven't really thought about it yet...
7. I posted about this a couple pages ago...
It doesn't model the shields exactly, but it's moderately close...I came up with a way to model MOO2 shields pretty closely:
In MOO2, shields block a certain amount of damage from each shot. So, what we do to approximate them in homeworld, is give them a health equal to the amount of damage they stop, and give them a really short regen time (less than 15 seconds).
That way, they block only the amount of health they are supposed to from each shot.
no, retreat and you can see ships hyperspace. The antaran hyperspace is cross-dimensional travel
Think he means swarmers as in hive frig
For battlestations and stuff, you could build a new one for the same cost as the old one, and the old one can have a 100% retire value. The time its offline can be thought of as refitting
I never retreat (:evil
I do with my swarms of 2 shot missile frigs
A wholesale approach on commenting the thread:
Forget about the standard HW2 build menus. You can put in the title anything you want and you don't need to match them with the current menus. This is done with simple UI changes and new display families, I've done it in my mod. The only limitation is that there is room for 8 menus - unless you hack the UI more - but you'll have different kinds of units to build all the stuff...
System wide minefields: You could make the mines more powerful and spaced further away from one another, that way you'd have fewer game objects. Also have you tried to modify the distance at which mines will attack enemy ships? (Could use that hack myself.)
How do you load a shared model for a subsystem?
One idea for having multiple subsystems of same kind on a ship would be to make identical subsystems but just give them a different name, say Hgn_FighterBay1, Hgn_FighterBay2... Is this what you already tried?
You are going to have many build capable ships. Also did you notice that your build menus will be very long? This was maybe already mentioned but you could use display priorities to block out obsolete stuff in the menus.
You could implement the lack of Creative attribute in research with display priorities, possibly. Have the research on the next level block out the options from the previous level or something like that.
You might still need some deeper UI hacks to make it all manageable. How about starting separate research projects or mini-mods for stuff like these, as they could be valuable to other modmakers too. A Research Treaty, essentially...
There could be other spinoffs of this project too. For example, I could certainly use a few models for fortresses and star bases, find them lacking in HW2 so far... (Maybe start by adding a few hardpoints to the command station model?) Anything done on this yet? A mod with capturable starbases that would give you RU injections or reinforcements could be pretty fun too, and much simpler to do :-)
What are "accuracy families"? Did you make a new kind of family into HW2? You mentioned this as a possibility to give different levels of ECM against missiles to craft. I'm not the only modder interested in such a hack!
--
Varis
Turanic mod technology raider
#118
Sam: with swarmers I meant kinda like the drones from the hive frigate.
And the retreat HS effect was what I was getting at, although a cool antaran "tunnel" HS would be awesome...
Thats good news about the build menus... no way we can use the current ones. The stuff with display priority has already been discussed, older tech will have to "sink to the bottom" of the list.
Accuracy Families are attackFamily. The ECM idea was to change the protected ships attack family. All weapons would have a lower accuracy value vs. the protected ships. I don't know if its possible to change a ship's attackFamily, so it might just be wild speculation
You could make a ship that's permanently in ECM attack family. I don't know if there are functions for changing ship stats on the fly. However, you have to implement that new attack family to about EVERY ship in the mod. Well it's still smart to do at this phase...
You could have a subsystem that lowers enemy attack accuracy in a certain range (I have that
ECM doesn't seem very idiomatic in the HW2 way of thinking. Somehow anti-missile fire fits in much better... I've even seen standard minelayers fire at missiles in my mod.
#121
There is a tech n MOO2, I dont recall its name, that makes 30% of all weapons fire miss your ship. Maybe use that?
As for anti-missile-ECM: Maybe have an invisible turret firing invisible projectiles at missiles, thus destroying them before impact?
Heh clever idea, Moe :-) The only problem is that AFAIK the ship needs to be a special purpose anti-missile one for the weapons to even fire at the missile :-(
I thought it just had to be a corvette with the minelaying ability. Thats easy, just call all ships corvettes, and give their mines a lifetime of 0
#124
But then they would still have the minelaying menu button etc...
So? Just dont use it
They don't need to be corvettes.
Just give them the minelaying abitlity, but only 0 mines.
#127
That sounds doable.
so... what about this mod? still running?
good stuff... never played MOO2, but was thinking some about planets from a HW2 perspective....
Maybe they should not have a physical model present in game. If a planet is a painted on background and then there is a zero-volume "planet" model which can't move and is placed directly in front of it?
If you do want to do planetary based combat, there is a great terrain modeller called teragen which is freely available. vegetation could be modelled as a series of tiles (Mech like vehicles or hovercraft could move "through" a tile, but the bottom half of the vehicle would be cut off visually for things that are bigger than the vegetation, otherwise they would be "invisible"). Cities could be a megalith structure with lots of different "subsystem" buildings...
just my 2c
10% of life is what happens to you and 90% is what you DO about it
#130
Not that I know of.Originally posted by Ellinger
so... what about this mod? still running?
man. hoped this mod would work. it sounded great
Cosider it to be on temporary hold.
Almost everyone involved in this mod is currently working on other mods too.
Also, Delphys HWSE2 would be of great use in the making of this mod.
Once these things are resolved, this mod shall begin in earnest.
Ah i would LOVE to see it in action... i hope you don't give up on this one :/
Wonderfull! I would love to play this one and im glad you guys are not quiting on it.
#135
Erm, guys, look at the date of Sams post. That was two months ago, and nothing has happened since. AFAIK no work has been done on this since.
DANG! Thats what you get for enthusiasm.
#137
If it comes up later:
http://dvc.f2o.org/moo2/moo2.htm
All the music files from MOO2. I've had them sitting there for some time. I ripped them directly from the game. They're fairly low quality but that's because the game is so old. As far as I know this as good as it gets without rolling up the sleeves and trying to clean it up more.
I hate to bump a dead thread but since nobody actually said why it died...
Sam/Moe/anyone else in the know - was it the planet concept that was the problem or lack of interest?
The reason I ask is because I was pondering an interactive planet mod (yes I know about the large map size problems) but I don't want to waste time chasing the impossible. Thanks.
#139
We didn't really hit any problems planetwise, it was more of a lack of interest combined with too much other work to do that killed this. Of course, we didn't get very far beyond the planning stage, so I can't really offer more help than what you might have read in this thread already.
Is there any chance that this mod might be resurrected?
I think that the Idea is just a LITTLE to much for moders I could be wrong
The Intuitive Mind is a sacred gift, the Rational mind, a loyal servant. Our society has honored the servant and forgotten the gift.- Albert Einstein
Those who will not reason are bigots; those who cannot are fools; and those who dare not are slaves. -- Lord Byron
you're probably right =(
If some of the big boys/girls if there are any (I got burn bad for not saying girls once)
come in on the project then it will happen. The problem is A HELL of a lot of ships and reasreach to get in game. If they Tone it down they might be able to do it in small bits at a time
If I may come out of lurking for a moment, I would comment that, yes there are a lot of ships and researches, but I don't think that that is as prohibitive as is the massive clutter that having fully customizable subsystems would cause (players would have to scroll through hundred-item long lists). Some way around that clutter has to be found before this mod could really work.
Hi guys. I am new here. I just saw ur makin some orion mod. Its looks interesting. I havnt played ur game much, but i play moo2. So heres my question : are here any folks which play moo2 ? Thx for respond.
PK
PK this is DEAD as in NO MORE
sorry I had hopes for this mod to
well, who knows - somebody could get some inspiration from this mod idea.
I still play MOO2 occasionally, really 'original' game.
If everyone wants to kill this thread then so be it
good luck in all your modding!
Ok u killed this mod... to bad, but i am still interested to meet moo2 players from here, if they really want to play this game online ...
PK
sorry, but ten or whatever moo2 uses to go online doesnt work on my version of windows (pretty sure its only for 95). ive never been able to get it to work over multiplayer.
just curious, have there even been any full conversion mods for moo2?
Ten is dead from many years. We play on kali : www.kali.net
See our official old web site : www.masteroforion2.com
Guide : http://thedopefish.com/moo3/moo2_kfizzle_guide.html
or German : http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/
Kali is compatible with all windows versions and it works fine with many games. We have many small mods for moo2 which changes race picks and/or tech picks. Moo2 has even international ladder league : http://www.pixelexiq.com/moo2
Its still played online by many people!
PK
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