Vagyr HMV Revisited

[Stymie_Jackson]

I need to stop saying Vag frigates suck...they actually don't. You have to skip corvette to get them early, but I've been trying it and Dear God...I've been winning! This was started due to complaints about the LV so I wanted to see what other things Vag could do vs. frigates/capships if they ended up nerfing the poor, misunderstood LV.

It costs 1600 to research, where corvettes cost 600, so it's a big cost. However, doing it is not bad. Double pump a fighter screen, then build another carrier and double pump frigates, or with 1 carrier trade it's fighter fac so you can still double pump.

I fell in love with the HMF due to firepower...ye gods! 1 on 1 they absolutely wreck Torp Frigates...they do far more damage and can be tougher. How many torp frigates to take a destroyer out?

I find 8 TF vs 1 DD to do it...and you lose almost all the TF.

How many HMV?

Try 5. And you'll have 1 or two left. That's right, they are far more powerful vs. cap ships. They can stop a DD...although not cost effective, you can out-produce DDs or get your own too. They can't hit anything smaller than a frigate, but that's whaty AC and LF are for in this build (no MV )

All I can say is respect the Vag frig...it's not always the game winner, and a good enemy can compensate, but Vag HMF are worth their cost...and it beats the Game Spy suckas!

Like I learned that Hig frigates are actually useful, perhaps so are the Vag...well, except the AF. Any thoughts on this?

[Chopper415]

Mmmmm..... while the laser 'vette stay as it is I much prefer it to HMF's. It's cheaper and faster to get, does the same job faster while taking fewer losses, and has a big maneuverability advantage over frigates.

Basically, a HMF is better at killing torps. Otherwise the laser 'vette rules as a first choice for anti-capship.

[komninosm]

Agreed!
And frigate tech is silly. I think it was a typo 1800 instead of 800 which is much more balanced with corv tech of 500 only!

/edit: I think your stats are wrong

[Pherdnut]

'eh? Maxed LVs with full armor eat torp frigs up fast if you focus on one at a time and if the other guy doesn't have more than like eight of them. Pretty sure I've killed groups of eight before without losing any squads. Did take some serious damage though. I'm really not as fond of the torp frig as most, although I have seen some people use them very well.

[Chopper415]

Er, Pherd, if an enemy has a group of 8 torp frigs and you have maxed-out LV's, you're still going to take losses. The onyl wau I can think of you not taking losses would be if he micro'd his frigates with the specific intention of DIFFUSING his fire rather than focusing it.

[Stymie_Jackson]

Especially post-patch...LV won't have 3200HP a squad anymore but I think 2560. That means Torps have a better chance in equal numbers than they do now.

[Pherdnut]

Must be playing crappy torp rushers then. Need to play more competitively. If they take me into the Chikens, expect to see more of me. I find 1v1 a little less exciting than 3v3 but the quality of opponents is somewhat more easily guaranteed in the ladder matches, I would imagine.

[Eiden]

Cost for 5 HMFs:

1800+900(maybe *2 if you double pump) + 5*700 = 6200 or 7100

Cost for 2 dessies:

1250+2000+2*2000 = 7250.

I'd go with 2 dessies over the HMFs...

[Spitray]

I think everyone agrees that vgr frigs need to be made more available and I think that AF and HMF should be switched around. Not that HMF would attack fighters or anything, just that AF is what you get when you build the module and HMF requires a cheap research. I loved frigs in cataclysm and I hate to see them be such an underpowered class.

[DrunkPSA]

frigs own. Especially post patch. My god hmfs and ions and flaks and afs are built FAST!

[Stymie_Jackson]

Word Drunk...nothing like cranking HMFs exactly as fast as laser vettes! Tried the Vagyr Double fighter then double frigate build order. A mass of AC supporting a wall of HMFs is very cool. It's like being Hiig without the gay ships.

Ion frigs get a boost to build speed too, but I haven't tried them yet. I rolled the Hig players too quick with a Frigate rush (never thought I'd say that) before they could get their advanced frigates out.

Well, Vagyr wasn't nerfed...the improvement to frigates balanced the weakening of Vettes.

[Henka]

yesterday i played a 2v2 game with a anonymous "player1" (wich i suspect is a vet under-cover) in wich i got Hmf's and fighters, when we pushed the V and H (we where 2xV on our side) i had superiour firepower, tripple pushed out HMF and singel pushed Ac's, and God.. did i eat dests?
he came with 3 of em, and i lost like 4 frigates, ofcourse he lost alot of fire when shooting at vettes with the dest, but he died.. bonus with Friggs is the fast movement, i just sepperated them a little and the cruiser could only shoot 1 or perhaps 2 frigates with each missile volley, and the Hiig DD loose 50% of its firepower when trying to hit vettes.

then a BC came, i just nocked engines out and killed it with 6 spare hmf's.. SIX vs a V bc..

i could move around so mich that his missiles never swapped target..

and in the same time i send 2 hmf's around the front and started to eat workers.

[FluxX]

I just figured it out... mabie.

HG are at a disadvantage, as they need a Advanced Research modual for most of thier Frigs.

The high VG frig price, makes them level with the Hiigis for time taken to get to heavy frigs. (like Ions)