What is Warhammer 40,000?

[Tribunal]

Wouldn't it just be ironic if the emperor was actually Horus, and that he needed the thousands of souls on a daily basis to keep him strong enough so that chaos would not consume him, and that some other supernatural force was guiding mankind? If it was Horus, then the reason he would want to defeat the other chaos forces would enable him to be in total control, not merely a slave or puppet to the chaos gods (as he might have realized at the end, almost dead, and the forces of chaos consuming him), and what better way than to use the forces that defeated your OWN armies! I know it's far fetched and more than not likely, but it's amusing, if nothing else.

[Maximus Decimus]

i believe the adeptus custodes and rogal dorn ruled that posibility out since rogal dorn had the golden throne ordered to be built and the custodes guard the emperor and were with him during the horus heresy so they cant be corrupt.

[The Collector]

Dorn brought the Emperor's body back: he must have seen Horus' corpse. All the Primarchs do not look alike, and he brought home the least-chaos infested of the two bodies, so I doubt it.

Also, the Emperor was dying, and Horus was dead. He could have just said "Help!" and Dorn would find him.

[ankara halla]

Not to mention that the Emperor oversaw the construction of the Golden Throne and didn´t actually enter it until after all the Chaos Legions had been driven into the Eye of Terror, which did take a while afterall.

[DarthFelth]

ok cant be bothered to read this, im tired, however i thought Slaanesh was created by the Eldar, the rest were just created by negative thought, and grew more powerful with the more people that believed in them...

[Maximus Decimus]

uh, slaanesh was created by the eldar because they started to get bored and amuse themselves with torture and pleasure which in turn gave birth to slaanesh. every other god was created the same way, when mankind and all otherlife started killing and were angry at a large scale khorne was born, nurgle is all the disease in the world and if there was no disease or they made a cure for everything nurgle would soon die out, etc.

[Azz35]

actually slaanesh was made by GW LOL!

[Maximus Decimus]

hahaha...we know this. actually ur wrong because u exist in a world specificly designed to keep those imperial citizens under control who dont want to except the real truth of the universe and that it all exists.

do u know what the matrix is? it is a program designed to keep every potentially rebelious citizen under control and to keep those who wont except reality under control as it serves a second purpose. it uses the energy generated from ur bodies and provides fuel for the hives and even the titan legions.

the matrix is real...

[DarthFelth]

actually i ant i know this for a fact (well 99% sure), eldar didnt create the chaos gods at all, just one i think the other dodgy thing was that the warhammer world in the 40k galaxy. but hey, dont matter, people believe in chaos, hence why you have chaos cults i always thought that the warp was like the dream world (kinda thing), and that the eye of terror was the bridge between the two, well something like that anyways

[Maximus Decimus]

this is all found in the story of the emperor. the warp is the manifestation from living things emotions and energies. the warp was very calm at the dawn of living things when races were just starting. the psychics or chieftans that lived at the time forsaw the warp becoming very violent and manifesting gods as hatred, disease, pleasure grew and the population of living things grew and therefore decided to sacrafice themselves and come together to form the emperor of mankind. That is why the emperor created the primarch and marines to defend against the forces of chaos who with to consume the galaxy. i have in my possesion the "fluffbible" which is a must for everyone who likes to read 40k fluff. It also contains the fantasy/40k connection which i think GW official dropped/denounced after a while cause mybe they found it stupid.

[DarthFelth]

i dunno, slann, 1st ed, whos in warhammer, anyways the warhammer world makes no sense at all Yeah thats what i was i think about the warp, kinda, but i know in the eldar book 2nd ed it said only slaanesh was created by the Eldar and they created the spirit stones so they didnt get eaten by him..

[Tribunal]

(nods)
Yup, and before our good eldar buddies there was no access to the warp, aka the realms of chaos.

Just imagine your government telling you that to save you time there would no more planes to have you travel around the world -- INSTEAD you would have to hop in a boat, take a trip through hell and back again (literally) but it would be all right -- Bush (or whichever leader you wish to insert) would be at home, sitting in his chair made of gold guiding you the whole way... Not that comforting a prospect for US, now is it? :bandit:

[DarthFelth]

thats not exactly right, for starts the emperor hasnt really got any choose about sitting there. and from what i knew the slann created the warp travel, or webway, i really cant be bothered to look for it, or was it the old ones, bah who cares, the eldar ant that inportant, i mean all they are is space elfs

[Tribunal]

Well, all I have on the topic is from the Eldar Codex, 2nd ed. Stories change from time to time, especially when it comes to trying to cram in more aspects of their games (like trying to fit in Warhammer into Warhammer 40k). And as far as the emp sitting there, it was just a tad bit of humor (albeit POOR humor ).

IIRC, the slann were the ancient, dying out species of god-like beings in the Warhammer universe... Are they becoming invlved in the 40k universe now?

[DarthFelth]

i know who the slann are thankyou very much, however warhammer confused it, saying the slann in that were the servants of the ancient race, ie slann mage priests. They wernt god like anyways, just very advanved

i do have my 2nd eldar book laying about i really cant be bothered to find it, to much bother

[Tribunal]

That's why I said IIRC
(edit crap, my son just smashed the keyboard mid-(censored)-sentence!)
(continued) because I have only played a few games of Warhammer fantasy battle, the RPG, and the Gm made them out to be gods, or descendants of gods. I was hoping to find out if they were one of the forces behind 40k, or if they maybe were behind the appearance of the Necrons (I think an alien race or almost god-like group is behind their reappearance).

[Azz35]

slann were originally in 40k, did something with the warp and ended up in the warhammer universe, if any of you have the rogue trader book (1st ed) then there is a bit about them in there.

[DarthFelth]

yeah i have that book well from what i understood the slann created the warhammer world, then had a war with chaos cos i think like on the warp gates collapsed or something and created the realm of chaos and they had a war and lost, then chaos got more powerful as more and more began to believe in them, then the emperor came along and the rest is history, im abit scared to open my rouge trader book, it was my uncles and isnt in the greatest of condtions. Its a pitty that with 40k they didnt keep the old weapon rules instead of teh new ones, they world alot better, sustain fore dice, you gotta love them, but i never liked teh way characters worked in the old one, they were just to powerful, like Mephiston, he was just a monster, we all know why the dummed down 40k, perhaps they should have had a kids version of 40k and adults version of 40k

[Maximus Decimus]

yeah, i have the fluffbible and i personally dont like the connection with 40k and fantasy. didnt GW announce that they scrapped that piece of fluff? thats what i heard that the connection has been denounced.

[DarthFelth]

i have no idea, i just remeber the staff telling me then what it said in the lizardman book about the slann and stuff

[Tribunal]

That would be interesting... A fast paced 40k, and a more technical version could be fun. Some of my friends that played 40k didn't get too into it due to looking at this chart, calculating that, rolling several defensive rolls, figuring saves then realizing they had a dispacer field and doing the whole thing again!

I think that's another reason I'm looking forward to this game -- not enough chances and time to get together with my friends to get a game or two of 40k in anymore.

[DarthFelth]

as i said, teh current armies lists and options with the old weapons rules and 40k would be alot better, however i dont like these new transport rules that effect pretty much everyone but orks.....

as i said funny that

[Tribunal]

As soon as the ork sales go down you know they will put out some new models and a new codex, and when they are introduced they will win every time (until their glaring flaw is revealed). I don't remember the last time I heard anything big for the orks... maybe it happened in my 40k down time.

[DarthFelth]

i just wished they would release them all at the same time, that way the armys might actualy be balanced for a change, i know when grey knights first came out they seemed like they couldnt defeated, then people discovered Khorne demons could save against most of their stuff, and chaos lords with big pointy sticks and collars of khorne made half their stuff, well useless

i would like to see a Thousand sons armt go against a Grey knight army, only if teh lord had that nasty demon sword, hehe

[Azz35]

if all the armies were released at the same time (for one system i presume) then it would be years b4 all the books came out, you prolly know but releasing the armies at the same time won`t make them any more balanced because different people write the books. I don`t know wether i should tell you, or wether you know, but 40k 4th ed is coming out this september, new stealer mould in the box set. looks very nice. oh yeah and if anyone is interested in the witch hunters, the codex is brilliant and they have this bint called the living saint and she is rock hard.

[Tribunal]

4th ed, THIS September?
Hmmm... Well, crap. I wonder what they are going to do to the rules this time?

[dewolfe]

Hmmm... Well, crap. I wonder what they are going to do to the rules this time?

Not much. You know all the Trial Assault Rules, and Trial Vehicle Rules? Well, that's what 4th edition is going to be like (with minor kinks to the shooty rules and some other fiddly bits). All the newest codii (Chaos, "X" Hunters) are "4th edition".

[Tribunal]

And a big thanks to you -- that is EXACTLY what I was hoping to hear. So, I will be able to pick up the codex that I am interested in and it won't be outdated in a few months!

[Maximus Decimus]

well WHATEVER u do DONT pick up the marine codex or eldar codex because the new marine one is scheduled this sept and the eldar one after that.

[Tribunal]

Thanks for the heads up there -- guess I'll be avoiding those groups for a bit!

Right now I am looking into the different paints, and am thinking about using a mix of chaos black for the bulk of the model, mithril silver for detailing, and the black ink for a glossier look to the black and brinking out the details in the mithril silver areas. Can't seem to find the chaos black spray primer, though....

[Maximus Decimus]

thats interesting but dont buy a can of spraypaint from GW because u can buy the same can somewhere else for 1/4 of the price lol. curious what army r u planning? oh if ur wondering the chaos space marine codex is new and for 4th.

[Maximus Black]

A brief history of humanity:

Emperor Born (Unknown date, probably sometime B.C.)

300th centuary AD: Humanity strives out into space, using the warp to build an empire spanning the milky way galaxy.

Building warp storms isolate worlds, and anarchy rules. Chaos, Orks and other creatures enslave humanity. On Earth the Emperor finally reveals himself. He starts a crusade to unite the many tribes of earth.

With Earth under his rule, and the birth of slanesh fast approaching (leading to an end of the warp storms) the Emperor created 20 Primarchs, (god like creatures). However the Chaos gods scattered them away from Earth. They were spread across many worlds, most rose to places of greatness among the humans on that planet.

The Emperor began the creation of the space marines by implanting what is left from the primarchs into humans.

The birth of Slanesh ends the warp storms. The space Marines with the emperor at their head begin conquoring the galaxy. Everywhere humanity fights back against the evil that has enslaved it.

The primarchs are gradually rediscovered.

Horus the greates of the Primarchs is apointed war master, The emperor returns to earth to take control of his empire, entrusting his armies to horus.

Horus is infected with an illness on a small backwater planet. Later turns out that this is a demon. Corupts his own Space Marines, then 8 other Primarchs, and their space Marines. Most are sad stories, such as the thousand sons who saw horus and his betrayl, and used forbidden magics to try to warn the emperor off the impending doom. For their efforts the Space Wolves (Another group of space marines) were sent after them by the emperor. Horus offers his support so they join with him. Another Primarch is continually sent into mundane and unglorific battles by horus, who makes the other Primarchs look down at him. Horus uses this to split him from everyone else, and gain his totall support, which spreads from the primarch into the space marines under his command.

Finally the emperor acts and sends 7 space marine legions after Horus. However 4 of these have been corrupted and attack the loyalists.

Horus has used his position to spread the loyalist forces away from terra (Earth with a new name). He knows if the emperor falls he will have total power. He also promises power to many humans who turn traitor. Battles between the Loyalists and traitors ensue, while horus and several traitor primarchs and their space marines head for terra.

On mars WMD are used against each other and the planet is slowly destroyed. Titans clash against titans destroying the land beneath them. (Titan = Chicken walker only much biger)

All that stands before them are a few imperial Guardsmen, with an acting leader (their original one is fighting with horus) And three space marine legions.

Slowly the Defenders are pushed back untill they have lost the two space ports, and only hold out at the emperors Imperial Palace.

However the white scars (space marine legion) launch lighting raids on one space port and recapture it, halfing the forces heading towards the palace.

At the palace the defenders sufer defeat after defeat. Finally the defenders are pushed right the way back into the palaces throne room. Thousnads of men mill around, while outside the doors the forces of chaos attack the doors. However it will take many weeks to break in. To horus's dismay he is informed that two loyalist legions are mere days away. (the dark angels and space wolves, who hate each other but have put these diffrences aside to save terra. )

Horus has one chance. The emperor must die before they arrive. He blocks all signals to the palace from the legions, then drops his ships shields.

The emperor teleports into Horus ship to kill him to end the herresy. However his army is seperated and most are picked off one by one. Sanguinus (primarch of the Blood angels) finds horus first. He is no match for him, and the emperor finds him dead He fights horus. The emperor is more than a match for Horus, however he holds back not wanting to hurt him.

A terminator enters and horus kills it. The emepror is in a bad state. His flesh has literraly melted, one eye has poped open. one arm is broken, and the other his wirst has been litteraly snapped off, only hanging on by the skin. His mind wages a war with horus but there too he loses. He looks out over terra and realises what is at stake. with what energy he has left he gets back up and kills horus.

Rogal dorn (Primarch of the Imperial fists) arrives, and finds the broken body of the dieing emperor who tells him how to make the golden throne which will keep him alive.


The forces of chaos fall back top the eye of terror. Everywhere humanity regains the upper hand against the traitors. Rouboute Guilliman (primarch of the ultramarines) argues against persuing the traitors aqs the galaxy is in ruins. reluctantly the other primarchs agree. The Dark Angels return home to their homeworld which they have not seen for many years. However chaos has corupted the man in charge of the Dark Angels on the planet. Rumours have been coming in for weeks about the battle for terra, and one of the rumours is that the other Dark Angels helped horus. The corrupted Dark Angel convinces the others they must kill their brothers as they are corrupted. (which they aren't) A titanic battle ensues. The primarch (Lion El'johnson) fights the traitor, who is his best friend from way back. He fiannly realises what he has done and stops fighting the lion. Chaos destory the world and scater the Dark Angels who fought for them unknowingly, and corupt them.

The Dark Angels primarch is injured and hiden by the "watchers" (wierd little aliens who lived on the planet.) The Dark Angels find the traitor whos mind is broken beacuse of what he has done to his friend and his legion.

Meanwhile Rouboute guilliman forms the high lords of terra to rule over the universe in the Emperors stead. As its first act it brakes up the legions from an unlimited number of men into small 1,000 men chapters. (the idea being that if one turns traitor its not too many traitors to deal with).

Gradually the Primarch either die or disapere. (those that have died are rumoured to be heling slowly (rouboute guilliamn & Sanguinas are held in stasis fields, and their blood is said to be returning to their bodies, the lion is healing at the centre of the ruins of his home world ect)

Since then the main goal has been to hold on to what we've got and to eliminate threats before they become too big (ie kill any inteilligent races such as the tau who were meant to die a few decades ago but got lost in the paerwork, then beacme to big to destroy.)

Other important Facts
The tech priests seek out a fully working stc. This is an inteilgent computer system that humans took with them when they first left earth. It is probably that a copy will never be found. PLans of things it designed are comonly available. (Every thing from buildings to tanks and armour are still built to its specifiactions. ) A common mistake is that they do not understnad how things work. They do. Its just that they also belive that machine spirits live in their machines. These are created by the machine god, who is supposedly an aspect of the emperors soul. As the machines are holy they do not develope upgrades much, it took several centuaries to convince them to build a landraider with diffrent guns.

The machine god is actually a necron star god. It has infiltrated mars and is soon going to turn the tech priests against the emperor. This is hinted at many times, the latest exmaple being that necron ships landed on mars (very hush hush first time since the horus herresy anything like this has happened)

The main holds of chaos are in warp storms, such as the eye of terror. Their most of the traitor marines are trapped, by foritified possistions (although this has all changed reaceantly due to the thirteenth black crusade which ende with most of the forifications being in the hands of chaos.) Cultists spirng up everywhere, and generally are killed everywhere, occasionally they can over whelm whole planets, and then summon many demons.

The slann seeded many planets including earth. The warhammer fantasy game is set in our distant past, just a few 1000 years after they seeded earth. Eventually they were killed by the necrons and their star gods. (again before Warhammer fantasy) Humanity eventually caused the extinction of the other races, (insert our own knowldege of history here) the Warhammer 40000 universe is set many millenia in to the future.

Khain is not khorne. Khain was originally an enemy of the eldar, but joined them. He died but his spirit lives on in the avatars. Khorne is the blood god. The ledar would never worship him. EVER.

Many old timers who played 1st and 2nd editions will tell you their own histories. These are now no longer true. Games wrokshop rewrities history very often, changing entire storylines. One such example is the iluminati who were the sons of the emperor in second edition. Games Workshop no longer acknoledges this as being true. (in a very small paragraph it mentions how they were really chaos agents. Another example is the sapce dwarves. (sorry cant remeber their name) which Gmaes workshop has said have no further potental and are no longer a valid army.

4th edition will not be realeased this year. The main guy writing it is more concerned with warhammer fantasy. He said it should be released by christmas 2005. And new eldar and space marine codexs are at best rumours. Orks are way down the list for a new codex (as far as rumours put it)

The next summer campains are Chaos verses Empire and everyone else gets a big invite (confirmed by white dwarf)
(warhammer fantasy) and either the eye of terror contionued (unlikely) or Necrons verses Mars and Terra (unconfirmed) (warhammer 40000)

[DarthFelth]

well i still dont like the new transport rules

[Maximus Decimus]

The machine god is actually a necron star god. It has infiltrated mars and is soon going to turn the tech priests against the emperor. This is hinted at many times, the latest exmaple being that necron ships landed on mars (very hush hush first time since the horus herresy anything like this has happened)

this is very untrue and entirely sercumstantual evidence which has been widely accepted by ppl. noone knows what the hell the machine god is and a theory is that its the technology that placed the necros into their necro bodies since machine spirits are souls placed into technology. this may be the reason that they have tried to land on mars. it has infiltrated mars? wtf thats even off the orginal star god on mars theory lol ur off their. the real theory provided by u necron players is that the machine god has slumbered on mars and that the Adepts mach originally discovered him there and started sapping tech out of em while sapping his energy so he does not wake. saying "the machine god is actually the necron star god(u forgot to put dragon in)" is like saying that th laughing god is the deciever and that khaine is khorne. i can argue this case if u want as i have proof for my supporting details.

[ankara halla]

@Maximus Black.
More often than not RT and 2nd ed. fluff is still quite valid. New fluff most often just goes into greater detail as to what has happened and every now and then tells the same things from different points of view, which naturally vary.

And the Illuminati were never the sons of the Emperor, even in RT much less 2nd ed. Sensei Knights were and are the sons of the Emperor. Illuminati is a fractured organization, much like the Inqusition, which, again much like the Inqusition, has gotten alot more inside fluff written about it thoughout the years.

"New fuff" for the most parts (tough there are exceptions to this rule) in no way negates "old fluff".

[Maximus Decimus]

that is very true unless they denounce something officially for example the emperors battle with horus has changed from the original but only by a bit because now all the fluff says is they had a spiritual/psychic/physical battle and emperor won therefore does not put down the fluff of the discriptive detail battle, all it is, is another account from another library/file/whatever.

[Tribunal]

Fascinating read. Thanks!

[Maximus Decimus]

4th edition will not be realeased this year. The main guy writing it is more concerned with warhammer fantasy. He said it should be released by christmas 2005. And new eldar and space marine codexs are at best rumours. Orks are way down the list for a new codex (as far as rumours put it)

hmm as i recall andy chambers or gav announced at a gamesday that 4th is coming out this yr around Q4 04 and space marine codex is being launched at the same time or a month or so later. they are busy with fantasy? well they have finished the new chaos warriors, most likely all the lists and stuff as well. remember now that 4th is 3rd.5 and only makes corrections and make the revised TVR and TAR official. its coming out this yr bud and if u look at portent those guys u supply us with the info on SoC and those release dates also supplied us with release dates for iron hands(they were correct) and are for 4th ed and its contents they say it is coming sept and thats probebly accurate as the guy has been write before. his name was frog something or so on portent his respected and usually is always on mark.

[DarthFelth]

man you really cant stand the thought of being wrong can yay, the other guy sounds like he actualy has a clue Maximus, unlike you

[Maximus Decimus]

ok there bud, where was he proving me wrong? exactly clarify what the hell ur talking about mybe u should learn how to properly structure a sentence and learn whats included in a statement like that. u just come out of nowhere. srry bud but i think ur the one who has no idea wtf is going on. u wanna be hostile fine with me.

[DarthFelth]

what a cheap shot, i ant even gona lower to that, i never actualy said he had proved you wrong nugget boy, however unike you, he sounds like he has a clue and not some little rich boy who has nothing to do other than read 40k books cos no one comes round to play

[Maximus Decimus]

lol nicely done, i just need this answered what does he have a clue about/knows about, u keep mentioning this but i have no idea what ur talking about. if its about the 4th edition then u should read the transcripts of the gamesday session with gav or thorp i believe it was, think it was either u.s. or uk games day. there he states 4th is coming this yr and sm codex is coming right after with a doctrine like set of rules, SW BA and DA are getting their own codexs. if its about the fluff he just had some minor incorrections like saying the iluminati are the sons which was incorrect or that just cause they dont rewrite fluff all the time that it means it doesnt exist anymore wtf. they wont keep writing the story of the emperor over and over and over again, theyd rather develop new unheard of fluff for eg.

do u trust him when he says he knows the guy thats writing 4th? there is a very reliable source at portent who goes by brotherfrog and hes usually always been write.

[DarthFelth]

I didnt go to the last gamesday, i ant been for a few years, maybe your right, maybe he is, as i said he sounds like he has a clue, you dont simple as, i dont care who is right really, and hey i used to know a few staff who worked at head office in england, so what, how do you know im not a liar, you dont, i guess you have to take people at what they say, however when they ant pissing you off, then you tend to believe them of over the ones who do...

[Maximus Decimus]

yeah, only time will tell. truce man iv grown tired of fighting back and forth with u this entire time.

[DarthFelth]

well, i guess so

[Tribunal]

Either way it is agreed: There is a new, 4th ed coming out relatively soon, and there will be Tyranids in it (the new genestealer model, WOOHOO!!!), and new codexes shortly after for several races. So, hopefully the Tyranid and Tau codexes should be safe purchases.

[DarthFelth]

well im hoping i ant gotta buy yet anouther chaos codex, what that will be the 3rd one i've bought if so

[Maximus Decimus]

lol well u do have the newest chaos codex correct? cause thats the 4th edition codex and every other codex from that release i believe are 4th edition eg. imp guard, daemon hunters, and witch hunters which is coming out soon very soon.

[DarthFelth]

how many did i say i say i had idont have the rouge trader the one ohh, i dont have the set

[markb053]

Re Codexes and which ones not to buy due to new edition. Tau and all Codexes released after that one are designed with 4th Ed in mind, this is why if you have ever played Chaos with the new Codex under the old assault rules they completly annhilate everyone, even more than they do with the trial assault rules! (Don't get me started on the sheer broken-ness of the Chaos COdex!). If you already have the old codexes don't worry, 3rd to 4th Ed 40k will be like 4th to 5th Ed WHFB, just a few rules tweeks.