HW2RandMap 1.4.8 : fog settings and per player definable startingfleet

[FallenSoloSLS]

Age2uN,

I'm afraid it's not working entirely right. I'm not seeing any ships in the left hand column.

Also, once this gets sorted out, perhaps labeling the two columns with what they represent (left hand = available ships right hand = ships to be added? something like that)

[FallenSoloSLS]

Scratch that, I got it to work, I did not extract the needed file.

I'll report back with my tests this weekend. Thank a lot, I'm very excited about this map maker.

While it is a "random map maker", it has A LOT of items that a player w/ minimal map making skills can use to manipulate the way a map looks or is stocked. This means that if I want a map that adds a slight twist on game play, I can easily use this tool to do just that.

Just by messing around with this at work, I must say that I LOVE the ability to preview the general settings of the map w/out really creating it.

I'm also quite surprised by the number of ships available that were from the Single Player game. COOOL!

[admiral666]

Originally posted by FallenSoloSLS
Admiral, use the random map generator provided by Age2uN, and make a very large map.

I'll wager that you'll see that maps of such a size will be very unwieldy in HW2. I've tried uber-large maps and I find the game virtually unplayable in Vs. CPU mode, meaning it will lag something awful in On-line multiplayer.

do u think i haven tried?whats the maximum universe radius?

[FallenSoloSLS]

I'll be running several experiements with this application this weekend. I'd guess, based upon the impressions I've gotten so far that a spherical universe of 60,000 meters will be tough to play.

I'm hoping that a smooshed map, something that is more disc shaped, with, say a 15,000 meter height will be playable w/ radiuses (radii?) in excess of 95,000 meters.

The only way to really get to the bottom of this question would be to make a 1 v 1 map w/ a relatively flat layout (Y axis in this application still equals height). If we set up a map w/ 200,000+ meters on the X and Z axes, and 15,000 on the Y and see if'n it plays well. If it does play well, we can go higher, if it doesn't go lower). I think that in this manner, we may be able to get a good idea of what is reasonable, given the game engine, game physics and game play system.

Personally, I don't think the appropriate question is "what is the maximum map size?", but "what is the maximum map size that will yield a map that is big and also playable?".

I suspect that we could make a spherical map that is 1,000,000 meters in radius - but who'd wanna play it?

[Age2uN]

Well, HW2RandMap limits to 999999. Homeworld2 eats that map.
That to me is huge. You can't overlook the whole universe.

[FallenSoloSLS]

Age2uN,

One thing that you may be able to add to the "other stuff" section is to allow the map maker to adjust the amount of "zoom out" permitted in the sensors manager. One of the problems I have had with big maps is the unwieldiness of the sensors manage when the map is very large, which I'm sure Admiral will agree with.

Uberjumper has said that he believes the zoom distance for the sensors manager is editable.

Another option, that you may have already implimented, is to create a simple formula to allow the sensors manager maximum "zoom out" to be increased based upon map sizes.

Also, my preview window is all messed up. I don't know if'n it's my system, or if the quadrant preview your application creates simply doesn't create a large enough window. Often the preview is not complete and I can't quite tell if the map looks the way I'm envisioning, because the window cuts it off.

[admiral666]

ill probaly agree when i test another huge map

[Mikali]

Originally posted by FallenSoloSLS

Uberjumper has said that he believes the zoom distance for the sensors manager is editable.

It is (it's explained in Malignus's Mapping Tutorial ). But, after a certain amount, stuff just stops appearing. You'll still be able to zoom out farther, you just won't see anything (it will all be black. It's kind of like the fog effect in HW1, except much worse .).

This happened in HW1, too. But, the maximum distance was much, much farther.

So, theoretically you can build a map as big as you want. You will also be able to zoom out as far as you want. However, you'll only be able to see a certain amount of it at a time (the objects will still be there, and will be functioning properly, you just won't see them).

[Tel'Quessir]

Is the maxdistance for viewing in the .ship files? Let me check.


Found these
NewShipType.SMHighlightDistMin = 15000
NewShipType.SMHighlightDistMax = 25000

And no, those are for selection only, not display.

[varis]

Did you already notice that this is a way to get more than 2 races into multiplayer? Capturable motherships at spawnpoint! :-)

[Age2uN]

I think there is a limit up to what distance things appear in the SM:
Each opject has a NewShipType.meshRenderLimit
Interceptor has
NewShipType.meshRenderLimit = 10400
Mothership has
NewShipType.meshRenderLimit = 32500

and there is some other values which probably apply to the zoomed in mode:
Interceptor values here:
NewShipType.nlips = 0.0005
NewShipType.nlipsRange = 6000
NewShipType.nlipsFar = 0.0003
NewShipType.nlipsFarRange = 10000
Mothership values here:
NewShipType.nlips = 0
NewShipType.nlipsRange = 75000
NewShipType.nlipsFar = 0
NewShipType.nlipsFarRange = 0

That means, this is a per ship business !
HW2RandMap can't manage that.

What it does manage is the setSensorsManagerCameraDistances:
It does set into the .level file:
setSensorsManagerCameraDistances(5000, <universeradius>)
So you can zoom out to see allmost all of the universe
(the above mentioned limitations in mind).

[Age2uN]

Originally posted by protmind
I guess off-topic, but does anyone know how to play a non-multiplayer skirmish game without a cpu opponent?

You can find the GameType "PlayAlong" here:
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthre...threadid=23121

have fun ;-)

[xAceRx]

what is the minimum map hight? does it matter if i choose a hight smaller than the hight of a ship?

edit: oh, and if i didnt create the folders needed, would the map maker do it when it tired to copy the map over? just wondering.

[Age2uN]

Originally posted by xAceRx
what is the minimum map hight? does it matter if i choose a hight smaller than the hight of a ship?

I really don't know and have not tried to do so up 'til now.
I'd think that technically a map height of 1 would be possible.
Try so and tell us your findings.

edit: oh, and if i didnt create the folders needed, would the map maker do it when it tired to copy the map over? just wondering.

The newest version 1.4.5 does create them. Previous versions gave an error message, if the folders didn't exist.

[Age2uN]

here's another question for public interest, which originally came from Tel'

Tel'Quessir wrote on 01-11-2004 11:28 PM:
......

Could you make different startingfleet options for mods?

Example:

I've added the following ships to PDS -

hgn_escortdestroyer
hgn_dronecarrier
hgn_attackdrone
hgn_supportfrigate
vgr_heavyinterceptor
vgr_battlefrigate
vgr_interceptorfrigate
vgr_strikecarrier
vgr_destroyerleader

and a few more with pre-loaded modular systems.
......

Yes you can add ships from mods to the selection list in startingfleet settings by adding them to the HW2RandMap.ini file under the [StartFleetShips] section. For instance: Adding the lines

avail80=hgn_destroyerhero
avail81=vgr_destroyerleader

would make those two destroyers available in the selectionlist, so you could pick them in HW2RandMap to be added to your startfleet on a specific map.

But be aware that these maps can only be shared between people having the mods installed (others would get an almost empty universe, when loading the map).

And : HW2RandMap will never pick the ships from mods added to HW2RandMap.ini on random, when you tell it to "randomize all".

[FallenSoloSLS]

Okay, I'm not sure if'n it's my own stupidity or what.

This weekend I was using the random map generator, and had the application to use my coordinates when placing ships in the map. In general, I had the settings like:

Universe Dimensions:

X = 75000
Y = 23000
z = 75000

So if "Y" is height, the dimensions are roughly discoid in nature.
Age2uN, please coorect me if you've switch "Z" to be the universe height, and it's not "Y" any longer.

I located my ships to try to get them to line up along the "Y" axis in the ship locations ("Y" in this section being the second horizontal to the "X" and there is no "Z", but a "Height" setting).

I set them roughly as:
Height = 0 for all ships

Ship 1 : X = 55,000 Y = 35,000
Ship 2 : X = 55,000 Y = 0
Ship 3 : X = 55,000 Y = -35,000
Ship 4 : X = -55,000 Y = 35,000
Ship 5 : X = -55,000 Y = 0
Ship 6 : X = -55,000 Y = -35,000

So basically, the ships would be equidistance from each other on the X axis and in the opposing quadrant would be an opponant. Ships 1 and 4 facing off, Ships 2 and 5 facing off and Ships 3 and 6 facing off. Do you all agree? Because that's not how the game loaded up.

What I would find happening is that the ships appeared in the right spots w/ the exception of Ships 2 and 4, which would wind up literally right next to each other, and upon start of the game, the two would have to maneuvre to get out of each other's space.

What was I doing wrong, or was the application reading the wrong coordinates?

I did not try this with the reverse settings for "X" and "Y", and will report if I get the same problem.

[Age2uN]

Would you send me the .level file please Age2uN@gmx.net
so I can have a look at it.

[FallenSoloSLS]

I'll send it when I get home.

I should'a sent it when I found the problem, but honestly, I thought it was me.

[xAceRx]

Originally posted by xAceRx
what is the minimum map hight? does it matter if i choose a hight smaller than the hight of a ship?

well it seems that with a map hight (y) of 1, you are unable to issue move orders, as the plane is too narrow to find a valid destination. at y=100, issuing move orders is possible on a narrow plane, however most resource ateroids are outside the play area.. at y=800, resources are hervestable (most of em), and there is room to move, however the (hig) carrier's start location is below the plane, which is fine, and all seems fine, but its a bit of hassle to have to raise the 'altitude' of ships built from the carrier when moving them, (as they launch onto the same plane as the carrier when they are built.) finally @ y=1400, the galaxy hight seems to be just a bit larger than the . this seems ideal, as asteroid clouds all seem within the boundaries as well.
i will now play through a few games too see how she plays.. but it seems 1400 is my 'y' of choice! i'll keep ya posted.

great proggie. :3d:

[FallenSoloSLS]

I wonder if you'll have other players crying foul when ships are located outside of the playing field.

I prefer a 10000 + height. It keeps the relative height to a minimum, but allows some 3-D movement.

[richieelias]

I wonder if you'll have other players crying foul when ships are located outside of the playing field.

Actually, that could make for a pretty awesome gametype.

Have each player start with a carrier way outside of the playing field, and set anything that is built to launch to a point inside the playing field. Then make the objective of the map some sort of king of the hill or capture the flag thingie.

Basically kind of like bringing in the idea of spawn-points.

[richieelias]

Odd little thing: Every time I make a random map and play it, the fog seems to be extreme. Unless I have the camera zoomed in to the max on an object it is almost completely white. How do I get rid of that?

[FallenSoloSLS]

I've had the same problem, and thought it was just a random setting.

On one or two maps, I've found that the ships look pretty much normal.

[Age2uN]

The fog settings are set on a random basis too.
So some maps might look pretty exotic (glowing almost).

[richieelias]

So is there no way to set the fog?
Kind of annoying when every ship has bleached it's roots.

At the very least there should be set upper and lower limits to the fog randomization.

[kentlowt]

Whenever I create a map with the harmfull dustclouds all I get is an all white screen can't see the ships just the green indicators What couldbe causing this?

[Age2uN]

Originally posted by kentlowt
Whenever I create a map with the harmfull dustclouds all I get is an all white screen can't see the ships just the green indicators What couldbe causing this?

I'll look into this tonight (e.g. 07 : 00 pm relic-time)

[Age2uN]

http://www.extreme-archive.de/HW2RandMap.zip
Changes:
- inifile holds sections for available music and background files
- tab "other stuff" has two comboboxes to choose
which music you'd like to here and what background gets used
- "overwhelming glare" bug fixed (which fixes the blinding dustclouds thing too)

[admiral666]

Good!can we use some other music or backgrounds than whats already there?

[brainy]

Well, it gives an error when i run it.
This is the contents of the .log file

1.4.6 1/16/2004 10:27:14 Error 380 (Invalid property value) in procedure randomizeOtherStuff(100) of Modul mdlRandomize

[Age2uN]

Yes,
I think you have to edit the file
data\sound\music\music.lua
and put the sound files in .fda format
into the directory
data\sound\music
or some subdirectory thereunder.
In HW2RandMap.ini section music
you add an AvailNN entry (e.g. Avail30=mydirectory\myfile.fda )

Not tested!
But should work.

I'll test myself later .....

[Age2uN]

OK.
You need to have the .fda file with your music in
lets assume it's name is MY.fda
(see the wiki for a description of how to get that
http://hw2.tproc.org/wiki/TutorialImportSound).
In your homeworld2\data directory create the path
Sound\Music\Mine
Put your MY.fda file there.
Create a file with the same name as your .fda,
but with the suffix .lua (e.g. MY.lua) in the same directory
and fill it with these commands with your editor (notepad.exe o.e.):

version = 4
volume = 0.70000
randSampContainer = 0

and save it.
Add the following line to your HW2RandMap.ini file under the section [Music] (use your editor again, to do that)
Avail30=Mine\My
and save it.
Fire up HW2RandMap mapgenerator,
change to the tab "other stuff"
and select Mine\My from the music selectbox.

Choose your other Mapsettings and press create
to get a map with your favourite music playing as background.

[admiral666]

k&thx,trying

[Mikali]

Originally posted by admiral666
Good!can we use some other music or backgrounds than whats already there?

Slamoid has already released the Cataclysm music in the form of a ".big" file.

See this thread: http://forums.relicnews.com/showthre...ataclysm+music

[Mikali]

Just some comments:

"Create" should be "Preview/Create".

The preview window is too small. Maybe you should add some scroll bars so that everything can be seen.

Could you capitalize the first letter of every line? The words all tend to blend together when I look at them (this makes it hard for me to read).

What do all those options do? Could you add a lexicon describing their purpose?

[I'll add more comments here later.]

[omiwan]

Nive job again this proggy rules

[kentlowt]

Ok with this new version all I get now is white screens even looking at the thumbnail on the files the background is all white. I have not been able to create one usable map. What is happening?

[Uranium - 235]

Great! Only some questions:

1) RandMap options brings me to a blank window with 'ok' and 'cancel'. Future version framework?

2) How do I get everything to be on a disc? I tried using 'ring' but unfortunately ring is random tilt, so my start points will be in a ring at 45 degrees and my asteroids could be at a ring opposite of that...

[kentlowt]

I open it up and nothing is there is it supposed to be like that. Do you have the previous version posted somewhere? That one worked for me except for the harmful dustclouds

[Age2uN]

Originally posted by kentlowt
I open it up and nothing is there is it supposed to be like that. Do you have the previous version posted somewhere? That one worked for me except for the harmful dustclouds

Yes the options dialog is empty right now.
I thought I disabled the button even.
It's reserved for future stuff.

[Age2uN]

Originally posted by kentlowt
Ok with this new version all I get now is white screens even looking at the thumbnail on the files the background is all white. I have not been able to create one usable map. What is happening?

Anybody having the same problem ('cause I don't get it on any of compys)
kentlowt: please give some configuration info of your machine.

[Age2uN]

Originally posted by Uranium - 235
2) How do I get everything to be on a disc? I tried using 'ring' but unfortunately ring is random tilt, so my start points will be in a ring at 45 degrees and my asteroids could be at a ring opposite of that...

in RU options select only "mid radius ring distribution"
and in general settings set the user to center distance to something like the half of the universeradius.

That should do the trick almost.

[Uranium - 235]

Thanks Well if you make another version, how about an option for 'bleed effect' that'll combine existing distribution option (mid ring and long ring would make a large disc between mid and long), as well as 'align on horizontal plane' that'll lock everything's Z axis within +- a few numbers of the plane?

[FallenSoloSLS]

Age2uN,

I re-installed the latest zip pack and got the right carriers to appear with the MS, though I did not try it in multiple games. Will do so tonight.

I do seem to have massive frame rate drops on this game though, especially with custom maps. I don't know why.

I'll try the latest drivers from NVIDIA and see what happens.

[richieelias]

I still cant find anything in the program that even hints at being able to change the fog distance. The first post says that this is changeable, but I just cant seem to find it. Can anyone help on this one?

[Age2uN]

In the first post it says, that the programm itself changes the fog-settings on random.

If you want to change them settings, look into the created .level files (using simple notepad.exe as editor) . The fog settings are at the end of the file.

[Neo XIII]

This is GREAT!!!!!! Great work.

1 thing I noticed though. the planetkillers music does not work.
The 2nd to last line says:

setDefaultMusic("Data:sound/music/BATTLE/planet_killers")

it should say

setDefaultMusic("Data:sound/music/BATTLE/battle_planetkillers")


Thanks for making it! No more makin' maps with notepad!!! YESSS!

[Drache]

This map generator is great!!

I love it, but there is one thing i'd change. Apparently it sets random fog so the ships fade to white. I think it would be a huge improvement to make it selectable in the exe, or just remove the fog entirely. Aside from that its perfect!

[kentlowt]

compaq presario 5838 751 irongate chipset asus v4860 v45.23 soundblaster 128 256 mg ram OS Name
Microsoft Windows
Version 4.90.3000 Build 3000
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation

System Manufacturer Compaq
System Model Compaq PC
System Type X86-based PC
Processor AMD Athlon(tm) Processor AuthenticAMD ~900 Mhz
BIOS Version EPP revision 9.00
Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS
System Directory C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM
Boot Device \\Device\Harddisk0
Total Physical Memory 255.45 MB
Available Physical Memory 103.16 MB
Total Virtual Memory 1.13 GB
Available Virtual Memory 857.02 MB
Page File Space 900.19 MB
Page File C:\WINDOWS\WIN386.SWP
running v1.1 of homeworld 2
direct x 9.0b
What else do you need?

[Age2uN]

Originally posted by kentlowt
What else do you need?

There's only one thing better than a lot of RAM,
more RAM !

and

What else do you need?
This quoted post deleted, because it doesn't say anything
concerning the topic.