Surrender MOD... Ready for Use!

[Muad'Dib]

Here it is folks... just go here and download the MOD. You may have to tweak it a bit to adjust it to your MOD. And please acknowledge Wilko for all the blood, sweat and tears he put in this MOD.... its HIS mod afterall!

What does this Mod do?
- Any unit can be put into it so the script will not make them surrender under suppression or so they will not surrender under any cirumstances.

- The criteria for the squads to surrender is for the squad to be pinned with 4 or less members OR suppressed with 2 or less members. Once the criteria is matched, a probability is run every few seconds for the squad. The probability varies by the number of members left, so a squad that is pinned with 1 man has about a 70% chance of surrendering whilst a suppressed squad with 2 men has about 5%. (All of the numbers and % can be changed in the script).

- Surrendering units will drop any weapons they have (including heavy weapon teams) and walk off to an enemy player's map_entry_point.

- The Surrendering units are assigned to a player of the opposite team, so the owner looses their LOS whilst the enemy can see where their new POWs are going.

- The units can be killed, although they cannot be selected or targetted.

- The enemy player that caused the squad to surrender will recieve xp points (the same as if they killed the squad). If the script can't find a player to award the points to, it chooses a random enemy player.

- The script now works on all players, including AI. A bit of code has been put in that prevents the AI from controlling the squad after surrendering. (Only the AI could do it, as human players can't select/order them about)

******************************************************************************************************

Major bug fixes thanks to Berse2122.
- units do not surrender on retreat
- units who surrendered no longer take pop cap
- units do not surrender if they were pinned but already recovered
- and no fatal errors anymore

Download Here

[Angelic]

I really like the idea, it also adds something new to the game and a bit off realism since, none would like to ficht to the death

[Cozmo]

Yea, that would be possible, there is an action it think, if not you can make an ability that changes the move type and armour type.

[Mannerheim]

Yeah its possible, Ive done the capture part tests for one mission that was gonna be like one of the 'band of brothers' episode

[Celution]

Mannerheim, you mean Part 8: The Last Patrol? Awesome!!

[Angelic]

it would be cool, but when the pow walk's to your camp he can see the whole of it, and that gives the enemy the oppurtunity to call inir strikes an bombardements. on your camp

[Cozmo]

remove their LOS.

[Niftyeye]

I would love this idea, but how long before people start having debates about it being inhuman to shoot prisoners, similar to shooting medics?

Lol, I love the idea though, would be awesome after a big battle to see a line of surrendered enemy heading to your base as your troops slog on forward.

[Angelic]

when people start whining about that its inhuman to shoot prisnors.. tell them that it is a game or tell them that it really happen ( and it did really happen )

this will just make it realistic

[Fallschirm]

Great idea, I hope some modders take it into consideration. Another way they can surrender is when they're encircled by... let's say a number of troops 4 times higher than them and see they have no choice.

[Angelic]

well 4 times is quite large, i say 2 times larger because if you want to capture a volks squad you already need 20 guys to capture them, besides cant we base it on veterancy like you need to shoot 4 guys with no veterancy 3 guys with one guys or something like that.

[GnigruG]

This would encourage blobbing even more, every isolated squad would surrender when blob appeared.
And what about snipers, officers and other one-men squads ? What about cloaked units surrendering even when not spotted?
Imagine a situation where a single squad surrenders to few others which are behind a hedgerow line, wall or other shot-blocking object, even if there's no pass anywhere nearby.

I think it would be better if surrender button replaced retreat button. The player who surrenders his men gets the manpower back. If they're annihilated he gets nothing.
But anyway retreat without a morale system will always be hard to fit imo. especially to this game.

[Angelic]

hm yea thats the best idea so far replace the retreat button with the surrender button

[Niftyeye]

^ I think this guy gets it, Im sick of riflemen having an emergency 'GTFO' button if they get surpressed by an MG, its not like that in real life where if a machine guns pins you you can just press a button and sprint to freedom.

And surrendering your troops to get the manpower back would make sense, would also be helpful if you have a load of squads that are redundant.


Im gonna resist the urge to joke about France wanting its manpower back in WW2....

[drparker-az]

"Surrender... is it possible? " only if they come out with a France expanision pack. But it would be one map only. And it would have a rail road running thru it.....

[Angelic]

whata you think of the dutch mate 100.000 jews thats a lot of manpower, still i think its a disgusting idea that only 400 or so came back... hitler was a maniac, i mean so many people gassed and burned that just sick... he almost took my granddad, but he escaped! and took back a pig...

[drparker-az]

careful you may be going off topic......... don't want a moderator jumpen on ya.

But I do agree with you.

[IrisDane]

I have to agree with the idea.

[GnigruG]

I'm sick of riflemen having an emergency 'GTFO' button if they get suppressed by an MG, its not like that in real life where if a machine guns pins you you can just press a button and sprint to freedom.

Well, If there were no retreat button, the suppression would have to be reworked, maybe even removed completely from a game.

And surrendering your troops to get the manpower back would make sense

To clarify, I didn't mean the full mp cost of a whole squad, just of a remaining men.

I also think that there should be some limitation, for example the player should be able to surrender only those squads which have less than let's say 50% health, to prevent ppl from mass surrendering a fresh, healthy squads to free the pop-cap for something more useful at the time...

The remaining squad members then raises their hands much like in assault and head straight for your HQ

IMO it would be better if they headed to the enemy's map_entry_point (where his call-in units spawn) and exited the map there.

[tyler4171]

IMO it would be better if they headed to the enemy's map_entry_point (where his call-in units spawn) and exited the map there.

yep as if they are going to a POW camp instead of an HQ

[Lethal Dosage]

This is a good concept, but without a morale system it's be very hard to have squads automatically surrendering. I wouldn't mind setting up up an ability like the Terror Doc's Forced Retreat ability where you could target a squad and force them to surrender, or build it into the Forced Retreat ability so 50/50 chance between forced retreat or surrender.

I don't know though about a button where you can order your units to surrender to the enemy for mp or something. A resource gift for voluntarily giving up men is a little absurd, perhaps a resource gift for the player recieving the POW's would be nice, as an incentive to allow eneny troops to surrender.

P.S. How about modifing the Retreat ability where if a squad retreats, but is not in the HQ territory when the ability is deactivated, the squad automatically surrenders. So if a squad gets cut off behind enemy lines (like all choke points are blocked) the squad can't retreat so they decide to surrender.

[Angelic]

Hm yea, but how are we gona make the map_entry_point the map exit point for the pow's, i say the one who captures them get's resource bonus and the one who surrenders get a negative like -20 mp or something because still he is giving up some people if you look at it that way so people wont think oh it just volks i dont care.

[Halftrack]

Why would a player give a surrender command to a squad ?
He will loose the squad anyway. so he will always favour retreat.

I thought of "surrendering" as a game feature some time ago, this is what I
supposed it could be, if technically possible:

-Make inexperienced squads (no vet, vet1 ) auto surrender when suppressed (red ), when beyond a certain no. of men and when its in enemy territory.

- add surrender to the retreat ability. So if the player retreats his squads, theres
always a chance of some squad members surrendering.

-surrender should give the enemy a small MP or Munition reward.

[IndigoSpyder]

Can the British Royal Commandos surrender anims be imported to German and American soldiers?

[Celution]

@Halftrack: That's an awesome idea.

@IndigoSpyder: Yes, it's possible.

[Cozmo]

Can the British Royal Commandos surrender anims be imported to German and American soldiers?

It is a generic infantry animation afaik.

[Latias418]

Why would a player give a surrender command to a squad ?
He will loose the squad anyway. so he will always favour retreat.

I thought of "surrendering" as a game feature some time ago, this is what I
supposed it could be, if technically possible:

-Make inexperienced squads (no vet, vet1 ) auto surrender when suppressed (red ), when beyond a certain no. of men and when its in enemy territory.

- add surrender to the retreat ability. So if the player retreats his squads, theres
always a chance of some squad members surrendering.

-surrender should give the enemy a small MP or Munition reward.

This is what has already been said, read the topic. In addition, the idea seems to be for it to replace retreat, so people can't exactly choose.

If you add in ways of involuntary suppression (I like being non-vet troops being pinned by an MG as one way, and there's always the casualty-based way), officers should have an 'aura' that makes troops near them fight to the death, removing both the option to surrender and the chance of an involuntary surrender.

[Cozmo]

Seriously, why don't you read the topic, halftrack said:

I thought of "surrendering" as a game feature some time ago, this is what I
supposed it could be, if technically possible:

No need to be quite so rude...

[drparker-az]

You know reading the last few posts, You guys should have done the expansion pack. Those are awesome ideas.

I wish Relic would have read the forums and inlisted our FREE help and MODS and put to geather something what would have worked.

Awesome ideas.

[Angelic]

Relic should more listen to there mod community indeed, and do the things we cant do

[Niftyeye]

I agree with Angelic

[Muad'Dib]

Wow! I've been out of town for a while and actually forgot I started this topic. Anyways, seems like surrender is pretty much possible especially with the anims already available. I hope someone actually finds a way of using it for their mod.

From what I've read, surrender can't be a voluntary command as it makes no realistic sense. IMO, surrender should go like this:
- If a squad is pinned (red) for around 5 seconds and you don't retreat them then they automatically surrender. Making you lose the whole squad.

- If a squad loses more then half of its number and is suppressed (yellow) then the squad automatically surrenders.

- I agree that the surrendering squad should go to their enemy's closest spawn point.

- They should also give out XP much like if they're killed.

- They of course should lose LOS once they surrender.

- The advantage of having your enemy surrender is that they have no chance to reinforce.

- This should decrease blobbing since a good mortar hit on your blob will probably make them surrender so you have to be quick with the retreat button if you don't want to lose entire squads. More micro=less blobbing (IMO).

- Officers should probably have a forced surrender button along with their forced retreat but will of course cost a hell of a lot more since they basically wipe out entire squads. It makes them even more important as a unit.

- Opens up more strategic and tactical uses for the Quad, Wirblewind and strafe. Plus it will add an additional use for the HMG.

- Squads with vet are more likely not to surrender. Vet 3 squads will never surrender!

The first MOD that applies something like this will sky rocket up the popularity ladder!

[Angelic]

the points u noted are the most likley to happen, but if 1 ant modder wants it diffrent like u can igve them up we just have more variation, but i agree this is the most balanced way to make a squad surrender.

[Darthhister]

Maybe if there was a random action if a squad is suppressed for a set time, and has less than half a squad. The random action could let the squad retreat OR surrender, that way not all your troops will be f***ed.

[Wilko]

Hey lads,

I've been playing with this, trying to get it to work for.. a fair amount of time. I've got the troops to surrender and walk off the map at the nearest map exit.

If anyone wants to look at this, i'll upload it after I've done a bit more testing.

[Angelic]

yea please upload it, and how and when do they surrender?

[Muad'Dib]

Can't wait to see it!!! If you perfect it, will you allow this feature to go public (as in other modders can use it)?

[Sando]

I had a go at this for a map I made - there's a surrender command in scar. Combined it with a morale system where officers were attached to the squads, and morale was determined by a combination of Officers alive + squad health, then a random 'dice' roll:

function retreatman()

local sqhealth = SGroup_GetAvgHealth(sg_axinfital) 

if SGroup_GetAvgHealth(sg_off1) > 0 then ofhealth = 4
elseif SGroup_GetAvgHealth(sg_off1) == 0 then ofhealth = 0

end

local moraleamount = (sqhealth * 6) + ofhealth	
local moraleamount2 = World_GetRand(3, 7)

if moraleamount < moraleamount2 then

local retsur = World_GetRand(1, 2)

if retsur == 1 then 
Cmd_Surrender(sg_axinfital, 1, as_north)

elseif retsur == 2 then 
Cmd_Retreat(sg_axinfital, as_north, as_north, false)

Rule_RemoveMe()

end
end
end

[Wilko]

I'll post what i've got so far.

At the moment i've added an extra function to the commands.scar which is activated by a straightforward ability. So this uses the built in surrender code that was used in the Panzer Elite campaign. The problem I was having was giving the selected squads an 'squadid'. Since it's using the campaign function, the soldiers drop any guns theyve picked up (abandon HMGs and mortars too), an event cue pops up saying theyve surrendered and they walk off to the same players map_entry_point.

EDIT: looks like Sando beat me to it - oh well, hopefully this can still be of use.

[Muad'Dib]

Wow! Great work so far!!! Keep it up! A few more tweaks and polish and you can introduce a totally new concept into CoH! I wish I could actually help you but I know squat about coding , so the best I can do is cheer you on... GL!

[Lethal Dosage]

Thanks for the info and work Sando & Wilko, i'll look into all this to see how it can be used.

[RTY1941]

Good idea , when I play cheat mod when the game end , I got a lot of POW .

[Lethal Dosage]

This works nicely Wilko, you write this yourself?

[Wilko]

The selection code is a few snipits of different codes i've seen used on these forums, then editied to work for what I needed.

Also, i've been trying to implement it so the surrender button replaces the retreat button the moment the squad is pinned. (Maybe if they loose a few members as well, but that can be done with the required_number_of_squad_members)

I'm having a difficult time making a requirement to check if the squad is pinned. I tried required_in_state, but to no avail. Maybe I should put that in the selection scar code rather than the ability?

EDIT: Slight update - the soldiers now surrender and move to the enemy map_entry_point.

[Muad'Dib]

Any updates on your mod Wilko?

[Angelic]

I so hope this will come out

[Wilko]

Apologies for the wait lads,
Well after a crash-course in lua-scripting, i've completely reworked the script and things are almost done.

The surrender code now goes through each player until it finds an enemy player and then chooses that map_entry_point - so now the soldiers will walk off to the enemy's base (and this works on any map size).

Also, I've put it so when you activate the ability, if any squads are pinned, they will surrender. Any squads that arn't pinned will retreat back to their HQ.

The only thing thats stopping me from getting out a working version is that I can't for the life of me find the command buttons (The top 4 buttons on the units command panel) - since I want to replace the standard retreat with this.

[Muad'Dib]

The only thing thats stopping me from getting out a working version is that I can't for the life of me find the command buttons (The top 4 buttons on the units command panel) - since I want to replace the standard retreat with this.

IMO, you shouldn't make surrendering a voluntary thing.

Think about it, your enemy is overpowering your squad and you know they're about to get annihilated. Why would you surrender when surrendering will in effect be like annihilating your own squad since you can't reinforce them? Please see my ideas on how surrender should happen:

From what I've read, surrender can't be a voluntary command as it makes no realistic sense. IMO, surrender should go like this:
- If a squad is pinned (red) for around 5 seconds and you don't retreat them then they automatically surrender. Making you lose the whole squad.

- If a squad loses more then half of its number and is suppressed (yellow) then the squad automatically surrenders.

- I agree that the surrendering squad should go to their enemy's closest spawn point.

- They should also give out XP much like if they're killed.

- They of course should lose LOS once they surrender.

- The advantage of having your enemy surrender is that they have no chance to reinforce.

- This should decrease blobbing since a good mortar hit on your blob will probably make them surrender so you have to be quick with the retreat button if you don't want to lose entire squads. More micro=less blobbing (IMO).

- Officers should probably have a forced surrender button along with their forced retreat but will of course cost a hell of a lot more since they basically wipe out entire squads. It makes them even more important as a unit.

- Opens up more strategic and tactical uses for the Quad, Wirblewind and strafe. Plus it will add an additional use for the HMG.

- Squads with vet are more likely not to surrender. Vet 3 squads will never surrender!

Retreat must NOT be replaced by surrendering. Surrendering is the worst possible outcome for a squad along side getting them all killed.

[Wilko]

I've given it plenty of thought mate, the problem is compromising what is wanted with what I can actually do.
I originally came up with the idea of swapping the retreat button with surrender when the squad gets pinned, as then the veterancy and officer bonuses will automatically apply.

However, i'm doing this for you chaps so i'll see if I can tick all of your checklist.

[Trance]

Automatic surrender seems like it would be rife with special situations in which it wouldn't make any sense. I support swapping the retreat button with the surrender button upon pinning, since if they're pinned it means they aren't going anywhere.

However squads should have their pinning threshold increased to compensate, so that players have more time to make a battlefield decision about whether or not to retreat.