TableTop Mod v1.4b DISCONTINUED :(

**XViper** · 2nd May 09 8:05 AM

DISCONTINUED as of 04/07/09

**UPDATED 06/06/09**
Version 1.4b

As per Pseudointellect's suggestion I have made a STEAM group for people to join.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/DoW2-Tabletopmod

So after almost 2 months, I've finally completed enough that I feel comfortable declaring it open for everyone to beta test.

I have uploaded it to www.moddb.com at
http://www.moddb.com/downloads/tabletop-mod-dow2

If you have problems with the download, you may download it from here:
Tabletopmod 1.4b

There are a few problems that I am currently aware of that I haven't been able to resolve yet. There is also still a bunch of content I have left out, because I still haven't got things working properly.

There WILL BE BALANCE ISSUES and bugs.
If you have ANY feedback at all, please let me know, either in this thread or email me at XViper123_AT_hotmail.com. Please don't PM me, as my mailbox is almost full.

I hope to pump out updates atleast every 2 weeks, probably on the weekend.

Also if you have other changes you would like to suggest, feel free. Whether it be more 'content' or simply balance changes you'd like to see from the original game. The mod has progressed to the point where I am willing to start working on other issues that many people are voicing in the forums, such as RA tunnels, Stormboyz, etc.

I'm not going to implement every change everyone suggests, but if enough people ask for the same thing or it really has merit, I'll certainly do my best to get it done.

Oh and one last thing. Everytime the mod is updated and a release is available, I will update this original post and change the subject accordingly.

I would LOVE to get some 3v3 testing done.

Instructions

Basic change logs of what has been done are below.

Code:

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Version 1.4b - June 6, 2009
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**GLOBAL CHANGES**
Camera
- Increased maximum zoom out distance to 82. (up from 55)

**ELDAR**

Rangers
- Long Rifle suppression damage reduced to 2.5. (down from 10)

**SPACE MARINES**

- Fixed a bug that prevented the Missile Launcher Devastator squad from being buildable. (caused by dreadnought decorator fix in 1.3b)

Predator Tank
- Added extra armour upgrade.
- Autcannon rate of fire doubled.
- Autocannon Damage reduced to 60. (down from 120)
- Autocannon area of effect reduced to 1.5. (down from 3)

1.3b Changelog

1.2b Changelog

1.1b Changelog

1.0b Changelog

Code:

TableTop Mod
A Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War 2 Modification for Multiplayer

Change Log
Note: Please see "DoW II TableTop Mod Change log.doc" for a detailed list of all changes.

Additional mods included:
Badges Mod 1.1

Credits:
XViper - Developer, Tester & Designer
Nofear001 - Developer
tchiseen - Developer & Tester
holo' - Tester
jaylo138 - Badges Mod 1.1.

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Version 1.0b - May 02, 2009
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**GLOBAL CHANGES**

- Population cap increased to 200. (up from 100)
- Max zeal increased to 2000. (up from 999)
- Extra melee damage received when retreating removed. (down from +30%)
- Ranged damage received when retreating increased to 25% (up from 20%)
- Requisition point income rate increased to 20 per minute. (up from 10)
- Added more descriptive information to the help text of many abilities.
- Upkeep removed.

Note: All stats (damage, hp, XP, build time, etc) have been modified according to the squad size changes made to maintain balance.

**ELDAR**

Guardians
- Squad size increased to 10 up from 5.
- Added Shuriken Cannon & Brightlance Platforms as available upgrades.

Rangers
- Squad size increased to 5 up from 3.
- All Rangers are now equipped with Long Rifles.

Warp Spiders
- Squad size increased to 5 up from 4.

Seer Council
- Seer Council is now buildable at Tier 3.

D-Cannon Team
- Warlock added as available upgrade.

Global Abilities
- Requisition cost of summon Seer Council reduced to 400 down from 700.
- Requisition cost of summon Warp Spider Brood reduced to 220 down from 350.
- Zeal cost of Webway Gate reduced to 75 down from 125.
- Build time of Webway Gate reduced to 10 down from 15.
- Requisition cost of Webway Gate increased to 75 up from 0.
- Population cap of Webway Gate decreased to 0 down from 5.

**ORKS**

Slugga Boyz
- Stikkbomb ability added.
- Squad size increased to 10 up from 6.
- Burna upgrade removed.

Shoota Boyz
- Squad size increased to 10 up from 5.
- Added Rokkit Launcher as available upgrade.

Storm Boyz
- Stikkbomb ability added.

Tankbustas
- Squad size increased to 5 up from 4.

Lootas
- Squad size increased to 5 up from 3.
- All Lootas now equipped with Deffguns.
- Beamy Deffgun upgrade removed.

Burna Boyz (New Unit)
- Squad size 5.
- All Burna Boyz equipped with Burnas.
- Tier 1 Unit
- Cost 350/30

Global Abilities
- Gave a slight buff to the majority of Ork global abilities. Slightly reducing zeal cost and cooldown time across the board.
- More Dakka ability reworked. Now increases ranged damage by 20% for 25 seconds instead of removing weapon cooldown.

**TYRANIDS**

Hormagaunts
- Squad size increased to 12 up from 8.

Termagaunts
- Squad size increased to 12 up from 8.

Ravener Alpha
- Tunnel hitpoints reduced to 125. (down from 250)

Global Abilities
- Requisition cost of Mycetic Spore (Warriors) reduced to 200. (down from 300)
- Requisition cost of Mycetic Spore (Hormagaunts) reduced to 240. (down from 300)
- Spawning Pool reinforce cooldown reduced to 2 seconds down from 3 to compensate for increased gaunt squad sizes.

**SPACE MARINES**

Tactical Squad
- Squad size increased to 4 up from 3.
- Frag grenade ability added.
- Heavy Bolter & Plasma Cannon added as available upgrades.

Devastator Squads (New Units)
- Squad size 4
- Created 3 seperate squads. (Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher & Plasma Cannon)
- Each squad starts with 2 heavy weapons depending on its type.
- Each squad can purchase 1 additional upgrade of any of the 3 heavy weapons, putting the total squad count to 4. (equips 2)
- Devastator Sergeant added as available upgrade.

Assault Marine Squad
- Squad size increased to 4 up from 3.

Scout Squad
- Squad size increased to 4 up from 3.
- Sniper Rifle upgrade now upgrades all scouts with Sniper Rifles.
- Heavy Bolter added as available upgrade.

Terminator Squad
- Squad size increased to 5 up from 3.
- Is now buidable at Tier 3.

Assault Terminator Squad
- Squad size increased to 5 up from 3.
- Is now buidable at Tier 3.

Global Abilities
- Requisition cost of Deepstrike Assault Terminators reduced to 450. (down from 900)
- Requisition cost of Deepstrike Terminators reduced to 450. (down from 900)
- Requisition cost of Tactical Squad Drop Pod reduced to 250. (down from 400)

My GFWL ID is: XViper123
My STEAM email address: XViper123_AT_hotmail.com (XViper or XViper123 might work)
I also have MSN: XViper123_AT_hotmail.com

Feel free to contact me for a game if you'd like

**DeusImperator** · 2nd May 09 11:38 AM

Sounds good I'll check it out.
No upkeep... sounds sweet.

Update:
I checked the Space Marines, and the Assault ,Tactical and Scout squads work fine (altough scout heavy bolter feed-belt has a graphical glitch). The heroes and the Dreadnought, Predator and Razorback units also work as they always did.

The Devastator squads however remain the same as in vanilla, and the Terminators are still not buildable.

**Pexo** · 2nd May 09 1:14 PM

I checked the mod too and it looks like that the Dev Squads aren't modified. They have still 3 squad members, 1 heavy weapon, no upgrades, no sergeant. Even so it's a great mod, keep up the good work!

**Chaos Von Draco** · 2nd May 09 5:40 PM

Very nice mod I like how orks actually have numbers now and can get into a good fight ya!

**XViper** · 2nd May 09 8:47 PM

I just checked myself aswell... thats VERY odd.
*puts on detective hat*

I'll get to the bottom of this, sorry guys!
No idea why it would load some content and not others (its all been packaged!)

Edit:
Ok, found the problem.
I must have accidentally overwritten the sm_hq.rbf file at the last minute, which is what caused the problems. (the build menu wasn't modified).

Please download the new working version from the same location.

Apologies for the stuff up guys, that was my laziness.

As for the Scout Heavy bolter, yeah. It doesn't look fantastic, but there's nothing I can do about that. Can only use what models are provided in the game.

Have also updated the file at moddb.com, which seems to have to wait for approval again, heh :P.

One thing I'm really interested in is what people think things should cost.
The new upgrades, the new units, etc? I need feedback for balanced equipment costs that don't make things too easy or too hard to afford.

Is the Devastator Squad starting price workable for a start game?
Are the Burna Boyz worth their cost?

I know I need to adjust the upgrade costs for the Devastator Squads for sure.

tchiseen · 5th May 09 12:06 AM

If anyone has advice how to change animations on vehicles let me know. I stuck a plasma cannon on a dreadnought and a flamer on a razorback ( as upgrades ) but the animations are incorrect.

Where should I be looking to change these? As soon as they're fixed, they'll be added to the beta release. Cheers.

**XViper** · 5th May 09 12:42 AM

I think it might have something to do with the gameart.sga, which is where the models (and I believe animations) are kept.

I made the assault cannon arm turn into a regular melee fist, the plasma cannon still fired but without the assault cannon firing animation or the related sound. Which makes me lean in that direction.

**XViper** · 7th May 09 11:25 PM

It's approaching the weekend and I'm going to do some more work on the mod.
If anyone has any feedback or suggestions, please post them.

**BattleBrotherMo** · 8th May 09 7:21 AM

Would it be possible to add new/old wargear from the campaign, I really like the commanders armor in the campaign, you could make it a little less expensive then termie armor. The only other thing I could think of is adding a chaplain, but that would take a long time and some modeling, but it would really be cool to see a command squad with him in it.

**XViper** · 8th May 09 8:00 AM

What armour are you referring to?
A command squad is a possibility.
The Chaplain however isn't something I am able to do without the help of a modeller or such. I have no graphics/modelling abilities of any kind.

Right now I'm quite interested in 'data' changes. Changes to balance whether new or mod specific. Anything with the mod doesn't flow well? Anything seem over or under powered?

**Wafflecopter** · 9th May 09 7:45 AM

First off, major props to you, Viper, for making this mod. Many of my mates have decided to switch from regular DoW2 to your mod for our inhouse matches.

However, I cant seem to find the Burna boy unit for Orks (Although I might be blind =/).

Devastator Squad price seems a bit much for start off, maybe 450 req? (Increase the price of their upgrades though to compensate)

There also seems to be a graphical glitch with the shoota boy nob with rokkit launcha, he holds it all weird although I understand you have limited resources =P

I would also love to see a Command Squad for marines, consisting of normal marines with special weapons, an apothecary and maybe a company champion (Slightly nerfed FC stats wise).

**XViper** · 9th May 09 8:50 AM

Thanks Waffle

The Burna Boyz for Orks replaces the build slot for the Stikkbommas.

I have considered nerfing the Devastator Squad's HP slightly and reducing its cost at the same time. While that wouldn't match with the fluff directly, I've always intended to do 'fluff' first and correct balance as needed after. No point having a 'correct' game if its balance is all out of whack.

The Devastator Squad upgrades will certainly be getting price changes, if you have specific number suggestions on that, please let me know.

I didn't really notice that graphical glitch to be honest. Certainly can't fix that directly. Having it add a Tank Busta boy to the squad is a possible solution, but comes with its own problems. Not a priority at this point

**Wafflecopter** · 9th May 09 9:08 AM

Ok, thanks for helping me find the Burna Boyz =D

However, I just played a 1v1 versus the computer (Hive Tyrant, I was using Warboss), and Burna Boyz seem sort of lack luster for their cost. They die quickly, dont get a lot of damage and generally aren't worth it. HOWEVER, all they really need is some more health OR a tad more damage and maybe the option for a Burna Bomb in T2?

EDIT

I've just had a look at Aliblabla's mod, Project WARhammer and I thought it would be pretty awsome if you could somehow get his Veteran Marines (Power Swords and bolt pistols) into your mod, because marines dont really have a close combat unit (ASM's and dreaddies)

**XViper** · 9th May 09 9:35 AM

Thanks for Burna feedback.
Strangely enough, I didn't actually modify the Burna damage from the original. Which goes to show how absolutely pathetic the Burna upgrade is for a Slugga squad in vanilla. Burna bomb was something I was already thinking about, so good chance that'll be included

I'd obviously have to check with Aliblabla before using any of his content.

Don't forget though, that SM's also have Assault Termies, which are now more easily accessible in my mod

I can't see the Command Squad being anything less than Tier 3 as well.

**Aliblabla** · 9th May 09 10:19 PM

I'll wouldn't mind emailing you the Vets, and all the categories necessary for them (wargear, weapons, upgrades (for sergeant) ebps and sbps).

You're going to have to balance them to your mod out yourself, though. Their stats may make them rather OP for your mod. Mainly the part about them being both fast AND tough, and having the ability to cut up vehicles with their main weapons. They also have a rather annoying tendency to kick enemy infantry around like footballs when they engage in melee. Oh, and they also come in squads of 10 when you max out with sergeants.

**XViper** · 10th May 09 5:22 AM

Updated.
See original post for updated changelog.

I've also noticed that the URL of the mod has "1.0b" in its name. This is going to be somewhat misleading as I continue to update the mod. So I have requested moddb change the URL to http://www.moddb.com/downloads/tabletop-mod-dow2

So just incase it suddenly disappears, that's why.
I'll update the original link as soon as I'm aware of the change.

tchiseen · 10th May 09 10:02 AM

It sounds like Waffle's really going to put your mod to work there XViper!

It's good to hear someone else say Burnas are a bit squishy. I said they were also a bit weak in testing. They became slightly underused for me, which means they might need looking at. (I should say though, I love Kommando Nobs with this mod. Due to the general squishiness of modded mobs, the burna nades, which are awesome anyways, tear stuff up, and if someone isn't paying attention, it can decimate a large portion of an infantry blob with a single nade. ) I also felt that tankbustas were a bit squishy, the problem being, if they're in cover, taking ranged damage, they'll get to like 100/600 hp before they lose a unit, and then they'll lose a lot all at once. It makes managing them a little more tricky.

I also had issue with the Rokkit Nob on Shootaz, to me, it didn't seem like he was firing at all, but apparently he was.

I'd love to test Aliblabla's mod, somebody give me a link! I wanna see something special for SM's, as XViper doesn't buff stuff unless it's Eldar.

**Steel*Faith** · 11th May 09 12:36 AM

Anxious to play this, but i'm going to wait for the improved AI patch this week before trying it out.

Also is there any chance you could combine this mod with a mod like "Epic Wargear MOD"?

**XViper** · 11th May 09 12:40 AM

The goal is for people to be playing against other people, not AI :P

If people who like this mod and would like to play against other 'humans', feel free to PM me your GFWL or STEAM ID's and I'll put together a list.

Edit: I can't really combine this with the Epic Wargear mod because it uses almost all of the same data files that I've been modifying.

However one task I will be undergoing soon is doing just that. It's already been done with quite a few of the units.

Most 'normal/basic' troops have 'rare' armour, and the more specialised troops have elite. Space Marine Tacs and AMS's have elite armour. Devastators have rare.

Guardians have rare, rangers & warpspiders have elite.

I haven't touched any of the commander units yet. For the most part I've modified the wargear on 'most' of the units that I have actually changed in some way. It's on my to do list

It's easy to do, just very very tedious.

tchiseen · 11th May 09 3:57 AM

^^

Changing wargear on regular units is doable, but it does take a long, long time. One option is, if you want, download the mod and edit them for yourself.

The AI fixes in 1.3 sound pretty cool, no spamming of particular units.

**XViper** · 11th May 09 4:11 AM

Yeah, will be interesting to see how 1.3 behaves with my mod. Hopefully we have no more vehicle spamming. (although they spammed that in vanilla too)

I'm going to have to fix some of my tooltips now that they have fixed some of the wargear/abilities.
Also interested to see exactly what they changed about some of the tooltips they apparently 'fixed'.

Hopefully no stealth changes.... I hate stealth changes....

**Steel*Faith** · 11th May 09 10:52 AM

Since we won't be able to earn the wargear online, it is very important that we'd be able to have improved wargear for our units. So it's good that you're doing this. Although is there any chance you could add more randomization to the units?

For example, I don't like how ork boyz all have the same gear, when they should all have randomized gear and weapons. So can you mix various tiers together to make squads look more faithful to 40k & TT?

Also Warboss rank 60 gear is a must please!

The goal is for people to be playing against other people, not AI

Which is great, but my friend and I prefer to team up and comp stomp. Is this going to be possible in this mod, or will the AI not be able to function properly?

**XViper** · 11th May 09 8:34 PM

AI will function perfectly fine, and has so far for the most part. They seem to automatically build custom upgrades and wargear options which is great. Not sure yet if they build the 'custom' units. Will test that more heavily after the 1.3 AI update.

I have no idea how to perform the 'randomization' you speak of. The 'wargear' each unit has seems to determine the model it uses, and where on the unit it is placed. Without the help of someone skilled with modelling and textures I can only use what is in the game.

Will definitely be putting rank 60 wargear on all the heroes.

I'll endeavour to do this in the next patch.

**Steel*Faith** · 12th May 09 12:28 AM

DoW mods like FoK had randomized units for SM Tacts, Sluggaz, Nobz, CSM ect. I've even seen some DoW II SP mods that randomize squads. Maybe you could talk to them? It would certainly give the mod more of a TT/40k feel.

If you can't randomize, could you atleast make commanders have helmets? I desperately want the FC, Farseer, WSE ect to have their badass helmets. Or could you add helmets as wargear pieces?

Good news with the AI compatibility! Hopefully with the improved AI coming out, it will work well with this mod.

**XViper** · 12th May 09 1:03 AM

Helmets I can do. (I also like Helmets.) I've already looked into how to do this, I just haven't implemented it yet.

As for the randomisation. You've seen it done in other mods? Could you name which ones? It's not something that I've noticed.

GorgutzFTW · 12th May 09 7:53 AM

I want to tweak some of the units' stats, how do I do this?

**XViper** · 12th May 09 9:15 AM

This entire forum is at your disposal, with many tutorials on how to do things.

If you have suggestions on what you think needs to be tweaked, let me know.

**Steel*Faith** · 12th May 09 10:22 AM

The randomization was from a campaign mod (squad members were randomized). That must be completely different then, correct?

Great to hear about the helmets though!

Btw someone had a cool idea on general discussion. Flamers should slow incoming melee, or weaken their melee damage. Something like a suppression effect. Does the TT have any rules like this for flamers?

Edit: I also wanted to add, is there any way you could create different upgrades for existing units? For instance having the choice between a long range ranger squad, a short range close-combat ranger squad (the power sword models)? So you could have a choice between stealth melee, or stealth sniper rifles? Or perhaps a mix of the two in the same squad depending on how many of each weapons you upgrade?

I think options like these would really make this mod stand out, and be a lot of fun.

**BattleBrotherMo** · 12th May 09 3:19 PM

Can you resubmit the file, my internet can't seem to find it. And helmets are a must as somebody said, It's just weird seeing the same force comm. in every single chapter, if that could be changed making chapter specific heroes it would be awesome, like teh salamanders

**XViper** · 12th May 09 6:50 PM

@Paladin: This the "brothers" mod? The one where every squad member is "unique"? If so, that's not something that can really be done in multiplayer. From what I can gather multiple individual units were made and the squad was compromised of 1+1+1+1+1 instead of 1x5. This is just way too much hassle and work to consider implementing into the 'pvp' data set.

As for Flamers, I'm not aware of any rule like that in the Tabletop. We know flamers caused courage damage in DoW I though, but due to the use of cover and garrisoning in DoW II I think Flamers already have their required niche.

As for different upgrades for existing units... that's what I've been doing! haha. Aslong as it matches with the TT, I'll try to do it. Some are much harder than others. Having Stealth melee Rangers isn't something I'm really looking at doing as it's not what they are meant to do. Clonesa's mod does just this though.

@BattleBrother: Resubmit the file? It appears to be working fine from all mirrors listed on the moddb link in my original post.

As for Chapter specific heroes, I wouldn't even know where to start. Keep in mind you don't choose a 'chapter' when you play multiplayer. You just choose a colour scheme. I don't think it's even possible to give you a different hero with a different set of wargear & insignia based on what pre-determined colour scheme you're using.

**Steel*Faith** · 12th May 09 8:39 PM

Having Stealth melee Rangers isn't something I'm really looking at doing as it's not what they are meant to do.

I know, but their sword & pistol model looks so cool. Not to mention the extreme lack of Aspect Warriors, and the Striking Scorpions would fill this role normally.

Btw, are you adding new units, or just making more upgrades? I think giving each unit type more customization, and ways top use them is better.

**XViper** · 13th May 09 12:23 AM

I'm making new units AND making more upgrades.

The only "new unit" I've really made are the Burna Boyz.
The Devastator Squads have been tweaked to the extent where they basically are new units.

New units is hard for the most part, as we need to use models and wargear that already exists, and sometimes alot of that wargear doesn't really 'fit well' on other models. Even creating new upgrades for units can be difficult. Take the 'glitches' on the scout heavy bolter and shoota rokkit launcher. This is also the reason I haven't included the Plasma Cannon Dreadnought and Heavy Flamer Rhino/Razorback yet, as the graphical inconsistencies are such that it looks really poor.

Also please keep in mind, that while I want to make this mod as fun as possible, it also needs to remain balanced and within my intended scope. The scope being to represent the Tabletop game.

If I could have units like Fire Dragons & Genestealers, I'd do it in a second!

**XViper** · 13th May 09 2:46 AM

Ok, I've just gotten home and downloaded the latest patch.
Unfortunately as expected, the latest patch has also broken my mod.

Right now I have no idea what exactly causes it to crash, but I will attempt to fix it as soon as possible.

Pseudointellect · 14th May 09 12:44 PM

I am looking forward to this being repaired and want to take it for a spin. Do you have a Steam group for players perhaps? That would probably be the easiest way for players to find each other.

**XViper** · 14th May 09 6:44 PM

Good idea.
I'll create one later

FYI, from having abit of a look and fix of things last night, I'm going to possibly have to go through every single .rbf I've modified and add/change some content.
The same is probably true for other modders here. (every ebps file has changed, not to mention the others)

**Steel*Faith** · 15th May 09 5:21 PM

Hey Viper. Two questions.

Are you planning on adding SM Veterans in some way?

Secondly can you add a close combat upgrade option for tacticals?! It drives me crazy that Tacticals are the masters of close combat and ranged combat, but they only get 3 ranged weapon upgrades. Could you add another upgrade that gives tacticals chainswords, and the sergeant a power sword?

Often I want to make a Black Templar themed army, or Space wolves ect, but we don't really have the upgrades to reflect this except through commanders.

**XViper** · 15th May 09 8:55 PM

Yes, I'm planning to add a Veteran or Command Squad. (Probably not both)

Secondly can you add a close combat upgrade option for tacticals?! It drives me crazy that Tacticals are the masters of close combat and ranged combat, but they only get 3 ranged weapon upgrades. Could you add another upgrade that gives tacticals chainswords, and the sergeant a power sword?

Short answer, no.

Long answer:
This statement is incorrect. Tacticals are not masters of close combat. They are effective at melee, but they are not melee troops. They do not get any melee upgrades. I have added all the upgrades to the Tactical squads that I can. (anything else is not in the game to add).
Melee is meant to be their only semi-weakness. Without that they have no counter.
Assault Marines are the melee unit for the SM's, not Tacs.
I think Tactical squads are flexible enough as it is.

I don't really like saying 'no', but it would be bad for balance and doesn't match the TT scope.

**XViper** · 16th May 09 6:00 AM

It took A LONG TIME and ALOT of editing (I had to edit approx 90% of my modified files), but this is now working with the 1.3 patch.

I'm not too worried about the next patch, as from their change log, they won't be changing things like they did this time around.

I changed a few extra little bits while I was fixing stuff, but nothing really worth noting. This is essentially 1.1b that works with the official 1.3 patch. Further changes and additions to come. Probably AFTER the next official patch is released.

**Steel*Faith** · 16th May 09 8:15 AM

Tacticals are not masters of close combat. They are effective at melee, but they are not melee troops.

Tactical Marines are masters of ranged combat, special operations, and melee because they have mastered the roles of Devestator, Assault Marine, and Scout ect. They are all those units in one. So imo, the game should reflect this and Tacticals should be the centerpiece to the SM army. Everything should revolve around them, because they are the best unit SM have.

Besides that, when they have chainswords they loose their ranged combat ability (only have bolt pistols). So it's not like they become good at everything in one squad.

Anyhow, great job with getting this compatible with 1.3, eager to try this!

**XViper** · 16th May 09 9:39 AM

I certainly see where you're coming from, and do agree with you in principle.
However you need to be careful to not make other units redundant. So there's the 'game' aspect of it, that if I give Tacs the option to go straight melee, they'll make ASM's borderline useless. (besides the jump ability)

Then there's the Tabletop 'rules' that I'm trying to follow, which also doesn't allow you to equip Tacs with melee weapons.

Looks like moddb have already approved the new mod download. I like how fast they are.

EDIT:
As per Pseudointellect's suggestion I have made a STEAM group for people to join.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/DoW2-Tabletopmod

Please join up. Hopefully this will make it much easier to have some games with other players. While this mod works fine as a skirmish mod, I really hope for it to take off in the multiplayer scene.

**Steel*Faith** · 16th May 09 8:41 PM

So there's the 'game' aspect of it, that if I give Tacs the option to go straight melee, they'll make ASM's borderline useless. (besides the jump ability)

Melee Tacts wouldn't have a Melta Bomb, Assault Jump, and the passive short jump into combat, or when pursuing an enemy (which is extremely effective), and wouldn't be as fast & mobile as ASM. So ASM would still have an important role in combat.

In TT if you made a Space wolf army, Blood Angel army, or a Black Templar ect, you'd have to give tacts melee weapons. Isn't there rules for unique chapters?

**XViper** · 16th May 09 10:11 PM

I'm not sure about Space Wolves or Black Templars, but my mate had a Blood Angel army, and besides the Death Company none of his Tacs could or had to have melee weapons.

You could be correct with the chapter specific rules, but that's getting abit too complex.

**Aliblabla** · 17th May 09 12:38 AM

Tactical Marines are inferior to Devastators in ranged skill and inferior to Assault Marines in melee skill. Their main strength is in versatility and flexibility, not powerful specialization in weaponry - that's precisely what the Devs and ASMs are for. They are FAR from the best Space Marine units.

If they were canonically better than Assaults in melee and better than Devastators in range, then there would be absolutely no reason to have Assaults and Devs around because all you'd have to do is stick Heavy Bolters or Jump-Packs and Chainswords on your Tacs and you'd get better men for the job.

**Zepheris** · 17th May 09 12:52 AM

XViper: just a quick note, while i am aware that scouts are capable of wielding a heavy bolter, there's a problem with the in game assets implementation of them.. one is that setup weapon like heavy bolter, and plasma cannon interfere with functions such as repair.

it would seems that the scout holding the heavy weapon is also the one designated to repair and this causes a problem since the weapon setup behavior interfere with the repair creating an on and off repair status.

Aliblabla: i presume he is referring to the standard practice where in order to become a tactical marines, the marine in question must have completed several campaigns as assault and devastator marines before he can become a tactical marines. That's just a background information of course and not all chapters follow that to begin with.

never mind that though, statwise from TT there's zero difference between them as even a devastator has the same weapon skill as a tact or an assault marine, so the main difference is really the wargear they are equipped with and the options they are allowed.

**XViper** · 17th May 09 1:57 AM

Thanks Zepheris. That's certainly something I didn't test (repairing while holding a heavy bolter)

I could possibly fix this two ways. I'll include it in the next patch if I'm able

**Zepheris** · 17th May 09 3:50 AM

btw Viper, does our current mod knowledge of DoW2 allows camera manipulation?

because as we increase the number of units on the field it also becomes increasingly hard to get a view of the full battle, something which can be alleviated somewhat with a more zoomed out view and was hence included in many mods i recall from CoH and DoW especially those involving larger unit numbers.

**jollyross** · 17th May 09 4:37 AM

i get this "application load error" when i try to run the bat file

**XViper** · 17th May 09 5:33 AM

@Zepheris: I don't know. I haven't seen or heard of it in any other mods. I certainly know how important the camera zoom mods were in DoW.

@jollyross: No idea dude. First I've heard of anyone having problems. Check to make sure everything has unzipped properly. Aslong as the tabletopmod.bat is in the same folder as the DoW2.exe, it should be ok.

tchiseen · 17th May 09 7:52 AM

Originally Posted by Zepheris

btw Viper, does our current mod knowledge of DoW2 allows camera manipulation?

I too would love a camera mod, but that's not what this mod is.

There likely isn't an easy way to mod the camera, as afaik nobody has yet changed it.

If the change is implemented, we'll be studying it and considering implementing it, or at the very least, making the mod compatible with any camera mod.

ALSO big props for finding the scout repair issue.

XViper put the Steam group in the OP (and by OP I don't mean Eldar).

Pseudointellect · 17th May 09 8:15 AM

I only got to play for a little bit against the computer so I can't speak too much of balance or anything yet, but the requisition rate was crazy. I ended up capping power points and dropping nodes just because I didn't have anything else to do with it all.

TableTop Mod v1.4b DISCONTINUED :(

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