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Company of Heroes: Fortress Europe

  1. #1
    Member eliw00d's Avatar
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    Company of Heroes: Fortress Europe

    Realism meets Persistence.




    Fortress Europe will be the first persistent realism modification for Company of Heroes.

    Players assume the role of a Company Commander for one of the Allies or Axis nations. Create your companies at our website, take them into battle, and customize them as they grow in experience. No special launcher or extra steps will be required, simply create or edit your company on our website and start the game.


    On our website you will be able to create up to eight companies per nation, and you can choose one at the beginning of every battle. Any company type that fought cohesively on the front lines is available for you to use, from infantry companies to tank companies, and everything in-between. In addition to the integral platoons of that company, you can also get support from platoons that historically fought alongside your company type, allowing you to make a well-rounded force that can tackle any obstacle. Support units are divided hierarchically, from Battalion to Corps.

    We use a points-based approach to balancing platoons, with more effective units costing more points to acquire, and everyone being limited to the same point total. Rare equipment is unavailable without perks, ensuring that you cannot create bizarre companies with rare equipment combinations that never fought alongside each other. After the minimum platoons are deducted from your point total, you can spend the remainder on strengthing your company or adding support. Even a mighty Schwere Panzer-Kompanie (German Heavy Tank Company) can have a fair battle against an American Rifle Company.


    All units are organized according to their historically accurate formations. Countless hours of research have gone into examining US Tables of Organization and Equipment, British War Establishment documents, and German Kriegsstärkenachweisungen papers. These wartime documents detailed the size, ranks, and equipment allocated to all military units, allowing us to make formations in Fortress Europe be as historically accurate as possible.

    Armour penetration data that was collected by the various combatant nations has been used to calculate our own target tables. The effects of explosions are split between the direct impact and the shrapnel; impact hits can spall armour, inflicting damage to the interior from metal fragments, while shrapnel can only wound infantry and puncture unarmoured vehicles. Flamethrowers can smoke out the crew of vehicles and cause engine fires, in addition to being a terror weapon against infantry. Vehicle crews will abandon their vehicles and flee off the battlefield if their situation becomes hopeless due to crippled equipment or casualties. Ammunition is tracked individually for infantry, gun teams, and vehicles, forcing you to manage your resources carefully during the course of the battle.


    Every soldier in your force is named, ranked, and gains experience with every battle. Heavy losses to a platoon can wipe out its overall experience gains, bringing them back down to the level of inexperienced recuits as new members replace the dead. Units can be retreated off the battlefield, allowing them to resupply themselves with ammunition before returning, or to escape annihilation so they can retain their experience for a future battle.

    Your company commander, as well as your integral platoons, gain experience with every battle which is used to buy perks. Perks unlock rare units and provide benefits that further help customize your force as they become battle-hardened. Support platoons and batteries do not gain experience, as their are loaned from other units and are only under your control during the course of the battle.

    We are nearing the Public Alpha testing state, which will include several companies for the United States, Great Britain, and Germany.

    Visit our forums if you have any questions or suggestions!

    Developers: eliw00d, Sturmhaubitze, escforreality, Mirage Knight, Panzer Jager



    Frequently Asked Questions


    Operation Overlord



    Last edited by eliw00d; 19th Sep 12 at 3:00 PM.

  2. #2
    Member burtondrummerNY's Avatar
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    Sounds great! I say go for it.

  3. #3
    Member Gamerisin's Avatar
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    yes very interesting mod,new recruits are newbies and they should get experience in battle and I mean real battle not little skirmishes by just killing 2 or 3 soldiers.

    You should continue this project sounds promising,you already have the info.now to put it ingame.

  4. #4
    Member eliw00d's Avatar
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    Actually, Gamerisin, most of what I've mentioned above is working 100% in game. ^_^

    I'd say the only thing I don't have working is the rest/refit system, but that's just because I haven't gotten that far in my checklist. :P

  5. #5
    Member Gamerisin's Avatar
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    Well then I think it's going to be epic,I was reading the info on the link you put and well...I'll keep an eye on this one.

  6. #6
    I have been doing a lot of research on Tables of Organization and Equipment for the American, British and German armies. I plan on incorporating squad, platoon and company sizes according to these TOEs. Each player will be in charge of one of their nation's Battalions. You can only deploy one Company at a time from this Battalion, for reasons I will get into later. Each Company will have a number of Platoons and support personnel, depending on the nation you've chosen. The individual units will be mostly static, but there will be a weapons pool for Companies and Platoons to give you slight customization.
    How are you going to balance out British infantry forces, which had their Machine-gun platoons held in a separate battalion at divisional level, outside of the infantry battalion? Also are you only covering Infantry forces? If you're covering Armoured forces as well, British also get screwed by having only a small recce troop at regimental level, and all other support is brigade level or higher.
    Or is this where the pseudo part of pseudo-realism would kick in?

  7. #7
    Member eliw00d's Avatar
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    I'm starting out with a concentration in Infantry, as that'll be *relatively* simple.

    To be honest, I haven't done as much looking into the British structure, so that might be troublesome. I'll have to think of some way around what you mentioned. I'm starting with the battalion as a building block, but perhaps you could call in elements from within a division. But like you said, that's probably where the pseudo-realism would kick in. I'd like to find a way to implement it, though.

    I've actually considered getting in touch with you because your mod had a good amount of influence on what I thought could be done with CoH.

  8. #8

  9. #9
    Member Angelic's Avatar
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    what do you mean with this
    I've come up with a way to retain data (experience, vet level, etc.)
    do you mean the units or do you mean the relic system or something?
    When the rich wage war, it's the poor who die.
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    I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
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  10. #10
    Member eliw00d's Avatar
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    Data for each player is saved so that any experience you gain or losses incurred on your squads will be used in your next battle.

  11. #11
    Member oSTRY921's Avatar
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    It would be great mod i hope you done it

  12. #12
    Member Angelic's Avatar
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    that would be cool, that way you can keep experienced sniper, squad, support weapons. but hows that with paratroopers/rangers since you call them in and not produce them

  13. #13
    Member eliw00d's Avatar
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    Actually, I forgot to mention this: all units will be called onto the field; there will be no producing units or building structures.

    I am setting the game during and after June of 1944, so D-Day is in progress or is well under way - this is left up to the players as a sandbox decision. German Fallschirmjägers were no longer jump trained at this time, although they were used sparingly at times (Operation Greif), so I only plan on allowing the Allies to do airborne drops. It will also be an option, so those that wish to roleplay after the drops have happened are able to do so.

    But yes, any and all units used in battle will retain their experience, provided they don't take heavy losses.

    I'm obviously not the first one to bring a persistent online experience to CoH (EIR, OMG), but I believe that my system works significantly different and is quite unique. I've never played OMG, but I was a big fan of EIR, which was another influence on my mod.

    I'm actually thinking of ways to incorporate bonuses for the companies that you use, perhaps the companies themselves will gain "experience", too. That way, the staff become more experienced, perhaps you get small experience gain bonuses or better equipment...

  14. #14
    British Infantry Battalion structure was...
    3-4 Infantry companies of 3 Rifle platoons each
    1 Pioneer platoon of 1 Pioneer section and 2 Assault Pioneer sections
    1 Scout platoon of 4 Scout patrols of 3 Carriers each
    1 Anti-tank platoon of 4 OQF 6 pounders
    1 Mortar platoon of 3 sections of 2 Mortar teams each

    I think I'm missing one more platoon here.

    Machine-guns (Dismounted and carrier-mounted), as well as Heavy Mortars, were concentrated in a divisional level battalion that was parceled out as needed to the Infantry.

    Royal Engineers, Royal Artillery, Royal Artillery Anti-tank (M10s and OQF 17 pounders), Recce (Humber armoured cars), and Light Anti-aircraft (Bofors) were in separate battalions at divisional level also. Everything else was attached from outside the division.


    Infantry from a Motor Battalion in an Armoured Division are again different. Cover that later.

    EDIT: Actually, if you're using Bayonet Strength for research, you got this information anyways.
    Last edited by Sturmhaubitze; 7th May 09 at 10:02 AM.

  15. #15
    Member eliw00d's Avatar
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    For those interested in either helping develop or playing this mod, I have created a forum for it:

    http://forum.medpackstudios.com/viewforum.php?f=29

    It's a little bare at the moment, but I just created it.

    I could use some additional help with RGD editing, because it takes time away from my SCAR coding. If anybody else is interested in helping, whether it is art, advice/knowledge - let me know!
    Last edited by eliw00d; 19th May 09 at 1:41 PM.

  16. #16
    Member eliw00d's Avatar
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    Sorry for the lack of updates! We have been hard at work and have made quite a bit of progress. We are looking for modelers/skinners, so if you think you're up for the challenge, please contact me.

    We'll have an in-depth update on all of our progress sometime this month, so keep an eye out on here or in our forums.

  17. #17
    This mod sounds like it will play like the old Bridge Too Far games. I like....

  18. #18
    Member eliw00d's Avatar
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    I'm glad you see it that way! I love the Close Combat series (You're thinking of CC1: A Bridge Too Far) and they definitely served as an influence.

    Our first development update has been posted, check it out here. We will be posting more in the coming days and weeks on specific subjects, revealing more as we get farther along. Please take a moment to register and ask us questions there!

  19. #19

  20. #20
    Member eliw00d's Avatar
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    I do realize. Sturmhaubitze and I have joined forces.

    http://forum.medpackstudios.com/memb...mode=group&g=8

  21. #21
    this is great im a big fan of fortress europe and am happy that you guys are joining together to make this mod persistent i look foward to alot of good things from you guys best of luck to you both.

  22. #22
    Member eliw00d's Avatar
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    A list of all the companies we plan to include has been posted, check out the news forum.

    If you're interested and have time, register in our forums:

    http://forum.medpackstudios.com

    Hope to hear from some of you there.

    Also, if you know how to skin or model, we are looking for additional members who can do either or both! Inquire within.

  23. #23
    I call dibs on the Canadian Armoured Squadron!

  24. #24
    Member Soldier13's Avatar
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    Oh man you guys rock.That's what I have been waiting for ever since EiR and OMG were out and now you guys are making it as I have wished for so long.i'm signing up on your forums if not only to keep track of things.Thx a lot.You just made my day
    "Fire and maneuver.That's the name of the game."

  25. #25
    Due to the scope of what we're trying to do, we don't have a lot to show off. Much of our work has been focused on the back end of things, getting ourselves to a workable state, and making sure we've got all the data and research in place. There has been a tremendous amount of work done, and our mod folder has bloated in size immensely with all the SCAR and RGDs that have made to support this effort, but we're still a little ways off from an alpha.

    The good news is that I've been working on diagrams and webpages that illustrate the forces that are available to the player. They're organized like modern Tables of Organization and Equipment, showing the playable units (skipping the administration, medical, maintenance, supply, and other non-combat units) and where they all fit within the armies. They'll be incorporated into our website, essentially acting as a manual of sorts, a summarized history lesson, and a reference for the units in our game.

  26. #26
    Member Soldier13's Avatar
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    Nice to hear that Sturm.
    I'm so signing up as a tester if you would take me as one.

  27. #27
    Member eliw00d's Avatar
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    Quick update:

    130Th Panzer has joined the team and is hard at work making some models. As mentioned in The Armoury, we aren't keeping any models exclusive to our mod, but if anyone is able and willing to help us get these in game, please contact us.

    Here are some pictures of the Daimler Scout Car he just finished:

    http://forum.medpackstudios.com/view...hp?f=113&t=318

  28. #28
    Member pojarsma's Avatar
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    As mentioned in The Armoury, we aren't keeping any models exclusive to our mod
    If only more people was like that...

  29. #29
    Member eliw00d's Avatar
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    We are currently looking for (a) dedicated texture artist(s) to help create historically accurate uniforms and paint schemes. We have added a new modeler to our team, in addition to 130Th Panzer, and should have all kinds of goodies to show. Also, as stated before, any models/skins we create will be released here first, whenever they are completed. If anybody is interested, please contact me via PM here or in our forums.

    Also:

    - We will be releasing a video to demonstrate infantry combat sometime soon.
    - A discussion was opened regarding divisions/kampfgruppe, which will act as "clans" for those who want to roleplay specific units/battles/campaigns, so please visit our forums and give us your $0.02 (or equivalent currency)!

  30. #30
    I've posted the beginning of a topic on Military Structure in our forum. I'll be adding to the topic likely latter this week, or early next week, along with more diagrams. The diagrams themselves will be part of a encyclopedia on our website.

    http://forum.medpackstudios.com/view...hp?f=113&t=345

  31. #31
    Are we still working on Fortress Europe? Yes, indeed.

    Today's news is about how we plan on handling authentic armour penetration for our weapons. The answer is that our system is going to be the most authentic to date, as it takes into account every armour surface on the target, along with its thickness, slope, and relationship to the diameter of the shell impacting it.

    I've copied the armour data for every chassis in the game, for every surface, and placed all the data into an RGD database. I've similarly done this for the penetration data on every weapon. I then wrote a macro that calculated out a percentage chance for a particular weapon to penetrate any particular surface of a vehicle, and then add up those percentages with weighting in order to find an overall chance to penetrate the front and rear of the vehicle. By using this approach, the particular characteristics of a vehicle's armour thickness and slope create unique results when being hit by different weapons. It also means that if only a few small surfaces can be penetrated, the weapon still has a chance to penetrate, but this chance is reduced due to the unlikelihood of hitting those small surfaces.

    Overmatching is another thing I took into account. Overmatching is when the diameter of the shell is greater than the thickness of the armour, regardless of its slope. A 75mm shell impacting on a 50mm armour plate, even if that plate is sloped 45 degrees, is overmatching it. Overmatching modifies the chances of shells penetrating, if they wouldn't normally be able to due to the slope. This means that even though the Hetzer's frontal armour is 60mm thick with a 30 degree slope, giving it an effective LOS thickness of 120mm (!), the humble M3 75mm gun on the M4A3 Sherman still has a chance to penetrate it, since it's 75mm shell overmatches the 60mm armour.

    Small arms fire also has penetration data, so that it accurately punches through thin armour when appropriate. And one thing to keep in mind is that the half-tracks for most nations were only protected against shrapnel and pistol rounds, and rifle rounds would often penetrate (Modern rifles fire essentially the same ammunition, and can punch through an M113 APC, for example). This is being accurately represented, though small arms fire won't do a lot of damage, so stopping a half-track will depend on getting a critical that kills the driver or damages/destroys the engine. Passengers inside will get hit by penetrating rounds as well.

  32. #32
    Member Angelic's Avatar
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    nice, Great news update

  33. #33
    Just a question:

    What has been done in the mod and what is still wip? I ask cos I like the ideas you have, specially the realism thing and who better for this that @Sturm. I know that rgd editing is maybe the most boring process while making a mod, lot of files to edit specially weapons and I would like to hear what you guys have already done.

    Greatings

  34. #34
    Member eliw00d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankdestroyer
    Just a question:

    What has been done in the mod and what is still wip? I ask cos I like the ideas you have, specially the realism thing and who better for this that @Sturm. I know that rgd editing is maybe the most boring process while making a mod, lot of files to edit specially weapons and I would like to hear what you guys have already done.

    Greatings
    Well, our initial release will only need vCOH models for the most part, so all that really needs to be done is to put all of our advanced systems into place, make sure they work, fine tune the RGDs and finish the SCAR/backend.

    Luckily, Sturm has his macros, so that helps with the massive number of RGDs we have built. School started up again for me, so SCAR/backend has been slower than I would have liked, but we'll get there. I was actually hoping to get a discussion going on a few items sometime soon here, see what our audience thinks of some key elements in the direction we might take.

  35. #35
    Member sweeten2213's Avatar
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    I've copied the armour data for every chassis in the game, for every surface, and placed all the data into an RGD database. I've similarly done this for the penetration data on every weapon. I then wrote a macro that calculated out a percentage chance for a particular weapon to penetrate any particular surface of a vehicle, and then add up those percentages with weighting in order to find an overall chance to penetrate the front and rear of the vehicle. By using this approach, the particular characteristics of a vehicle's armour thickness and slope create unique results when being hit by different weapons. It also means that if only a few small surfaces can be penetrated, the weapon still has a chance to penetrate, but this chance is reduced due to the unlikelihood of hitting those small surfaces.
    WOW - and I thought I took the realism thing seriously. You've taken it to whole nother level.

    Nice work Sturm!
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  36. #36
    Member eliw00d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeten2213
    WOW - and I thought I took the realism thing seriously. You've taken it to whole nother level.

    Nice work Sturm!
    If you like that, I'm sure you'll be excited to hear that we are considering our options with an ammo system.

  37. #37
    Thanks for the quick anwer, looking forward for this mod. Even with hard editing from my part I never made that my own mod have realistic stats, so I hope you guys get the holy balance between gameplay/realism.

    Edit: OMG an ammo system will be nice!

  38. #38
    Member sweeten2213's Avatar
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    If you like that, I'm sure you'll be excited to hear that we are considering our options with an ammo system.
    Very nice.

    Oh, and...

    I've copied the armour data for every chassis in the game, for every surface, and placed all the data into an RGD database. I've similarly done this for the penetration data on every weapon. I then wrote a macro that calculated out a percentage chance for a particular weapon to penetrate any particular surface of a vehicle, and then add up those percentages with weighting in order to find an overall chance to penetrate the front and rear of the vehicle.
    I'm so jealous of that macro. I did similar calculations (though not quite as intense) but had to do with a pen and a calculator, plugging in my own formulas for the transition into the CoH world

    And,

    so I hope you guys get the holy balance between gameplay/realism
    That is the realism mod "Holy Grail" - I think we are all starting to get close, though.

  39. #39
    Member eliw00d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeten2213
    That is the realism mod "Holy Grail" - I think we are all starting to get close, though.
    I think you guys will like the final product. I'm pretty happy with what we've come up with so far, and wish that school and work weren't in the way so that we could get it done faster.

  40. #40
    Member sweeten2213's Avatar
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    I don't often get the time to try out other mods, but I think I may have to find the time to see what you guys came up with

  41. #41
    Macros make all of this possible. I have a single custom RGD that acts as a database for any particular "system" I want to apply macros. For example, I have a weapon database that has a table of all armour types and a table of all weapon types. Each armour type has a table that holds the armour thickness and slope for every surface it has, and the percentage of that facing (front/side/rear) that it covers. Weapon types hold the typical CoH stats that would apply to every variation of that weapon (ie. every M1919 uses the same weapon type, so that I don't need to hand-edit all the various vehicle-mounted variations individually). Once all the data is entered, I just run the macro.
    The macro loads up the database, and then from there it goes through each weapon type, compares its characteristics with every armour type, and outputs the necessary changes to the target_table for weapon RGD associated with the weapon type. If I add a new armour type that isn't in the target_table, it adds it automatically.
    So yesterday I added in the Ram Kangaroo armour type, along with its armour data (took roughly a couple minutes of entering in the numbers), and re-ran the macro. Within a few seconds every weapon had been updated so that it correctly interacts with ram kangaroos.
    If there's a bug with my formula, or I mis-entered some data, I just have to re-run the macro after making the necessary change. No more sorting through dozens or hundreds of RGDs to find some typo.

    However I'm not a complete realism nut. The game still has to be fun, intuitive, and manageable for the player, and I don't like heaping on new systems if they detract from the simple pleasure of commanding your troops and seeing your tactics unfold. Some amount of simplicity and abstraction is acceptable to me if the end result still feels both genuine and fun. So anything new we do will be easy to grasp and make use of.

  42. #42
    Member sweeten2213's Avatar
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    Impressive

  43. #43
    Member Angelic's Avatar
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    Thats truely impressive, whising i could write marco's now where's that tut.

  44. #44
    Authentic Infantry Combat

    So basically Fortress Europe has some changes to the stock infantry combat in vanilla Company of Heroes in order to make it feel more accurate. However from the onset I didn't want it to follow in the footsteps of previous attempts. No offense to previous mods, but I found that infantry died far too quick in most other realism mods, and resulting in astronomical casualties that didn't add up with actual accounts of infantry combat.

    The problem wasn't in the simulation of infantry weapons, but in the simulation of infantry behaviour. A realistic rifle can kill with a single shot, or at least cause a serious wound which drops the soldier, and these mods were accurately modelling this. However real troops do not act like they're FPS players. They're reluctant to shoot at other human beings unless appropriately goaded or forced, and tend to be more concerned about not getting hit than in racking up kills.

    Fortress Europe's model has infantry taking intermittent pot shots at targets at long range, and attempting to suppress more than actually kill. Casualties at long range will be few and far between, as rounds will be inaccurate and spaced far apart. Firefights will take a long time at this range.
    At medium range, suppression is still possible, but now shots are fired with more urgency. Casualties will start to mount up, and automatics will begin being a real threat. Troops that haven't hit the dirt will be torn apart by machine-guns. Assault Rifles and Semi-automatic Rifles are best used at this range, while at long range they function no better than bolt-action rifles.
    At short range there is no suppression, as troops can't afford to hide when the enemy is so close. Fatalities will pile up really quickly, and firefights will be over very quickly. Submachine-guns will decimate troops at this range.

    Vehicle-mounted machine-guns are no worse than their infantry-carried counterparts, and with these changes some extra benefits that are historically-accurate arise. For one thing, tanks that spot and fire on infantry at a distance with their MGs can suppress them before they get too close. This reinforces the reality of the tank's MGs as being a defensive weapon, which they were, as vehicles without MGs were easy kills for troops. Tank cannons themselves almost never hit troops directly, as a moving soldier is too small of a target, and so must resort to firing HE shells that land 'close enough'. With HE shells being more of a stand-off weapon, fired at infantry positions prior to an assault, the MG becomes very important in the tank's survival.
    Last edited by Sturmhaubitze; 4th Nov 09 at 9:58 AM.

  45. #45
    Member Gamerisin's Avatar
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    great work @Sturm,I would like to see this,very impresive realistic info. from now on I will call it AIC (Authentic Infantry Combat)
    I'm also interested in the ammo system,that will surely give a new perspective to combat...
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  46. #46
    Member Angelic's Avatar
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    Very Impressive, unbelieveable that it can get this real.

  47. #47
    Member eliw00d's Avatar
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    I can confirm that we now have a working ammo system.

  48. #48
    This reinforces the reality of the tank's MGs as being a defensive weapon, which they were, as vehicles without MGs were easy kills for troops. Tank cannons themselves almost never hit troops directly, as a moving soldier is too small of a target, and so must resort to firing HE shells that land 'close enough'. With HE shells being more of a stand-off weapon, fired at infantry positions prior to an assault, the MG becomes very important in the tank's survival.
    So will infantry be able to take down tanks without anti-armour weapons? or at least damage them?

  49. #49
    Member eliw00d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJake
    So will infantry be able to take down tanks without anti-armour weapons? or at least damage them?
    Yes, Infantry AT Weapons will be the bane of unescorted tanks. There will be all kinds of AT Weapons to use, also, such as panzerknackers, gewehrpanzergranaten, etc. Although they are more lethal, you can not rush a tank head on, as the defensive MGs will be able to counter that. Instead, you will have to lie in ambush or take on the tank from the flank or rear.

    Edit:

    Ah, I misread the question. In most cases, if they do not have panzerschrecks or panzerfausts, they will at LEAST have AT grenades/rifle grenades for minor protection against tanks.

  50. #50
    Member eliw00d's Avatar
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    Some pictures of our Daimler Armoured Car, which was just finished by 130th Panzer. Just needs to be handed off to those that can get it working in game.

    http://forum.medpackstudios.com/view...php?f=30&t=417
    Last edited by eliw00d; 19th Dec 09 at 11:23 AM.

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