Dawn Of Skirmish SS v3.20 AI Mod is now LIVE!!

[Vinraith]

I'm showing a Trojan Horse virus in the installer with AVG 8.5. I assume that's a false positive, but I figured it didn't hurt to post here and make sure before I installed it.

Also, looking forward to the DC update.

Thanks for all your hard work!

[LarkinVB]

False positive. AVG is the only scanner failing.

[Vinraith]

Thanks for the confirmation!

[rev_draconis]

I'm working on a private/(maybe public Mod) and wanted to use this and the bugfix mods as the backbone. Wanted to know if I could get permission to use it?

And if yes, that leads me to ask - would it be easier to start with this already included or wait until I am finished making my changes and then adjust the AI then, because there will be new units, weapon load-outs and doctines included in my mod.

Thank you for any assisstance that the Mod team can give me in this project.

[thudmeizer]

Hey Rev.. as long as you credit the entire DoW1 Adv AI team then we give you our blessing.

Btw, always best to finalize your build/tech/unit orders for your mod then code the AI afterwards.

[rev_draconis]

Kewl! Thank you Thud. Definitley not a problem in the credit department.

and that is good to know since I will be adding alot of new items for most if not all races and I get the feeling that redoing the AI will take as long as putting the mod itself together.

[INSCRIPTICOR]

great job
the computer wichcraft your doing here is rocket science to me :P but if there is any way (although i doubt there is an easy way) to get the AI to respond to pings such as attack/defend here, that would be bane

@larkin NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! LAST VERSION!!????? IT CANT BE!!!

thanks 4527%

[Lander0101]

Are you planing to make it compatibile with dawn of war vanilla?
It would be realy cool

[rev_draconis]

There is a dawn of skirmish available for DoW vanilla already

[GrOrc]

Hello guys. I was working over my DC mod long time and I was not playing in SS so long time too. Before that times I use AI ver.3.0 without any problems. Thanks to Dawn Of Skirmish Mod Team for their good quality work.

Recently I play SS with AI ver.3.2 and I see some disagreeable bug. With Heroes option attachable unit's behaviour is incorrect. For example, Sisters' Missionary often leave squad spontaneously. It is very-very annoying bug. In hot moments of battles squad unable to use holy abilities because Missionary unexpectedly runaway from squad. Sometimes icon of attached unit flicker in squad's control pannel, i.e. attached unit attach/detach spontaneously with high frequency.

I localize this problem. This bug is bug of Heroes-system as I saw in my experiments. I look on file heroes_manager.scar and I see very complicated code concerned with attach functions. This is absent in ver.3.0. Questions to Dawn Of Skirmish Mod Team:
1. What reasons for add this code?
2. This is a feature or this is a bug? If it is a feature then this is very disputable feature.
3. How fix this problem? Or do you have a plan to fix this bug in next version of your AI Mod?

[the_hunger]

This detaching problem needs to be checked for the IG commisar as well, though I am not sure if it originates with the mod.

[corncobman]

It happens with all attachable leaders really. I think that what is supposed to happen is in order to level the heroes, they need to be detached, then levelled up and then reattached, but something is causing it to not work sometimes.

[GrOrc]

Yes. We think about it equally. Such imperfection exist in the Heroes-system in all versions. Of course it must be fixed, however it must not be done by the way as in ver.3.2 now. I think we are not needed to detach leader from squad for making his level-up. May be exist another way within DoW engine for realize it in the Heroes-system...

[Sakimoto]

I have had a very annoying problem with the game spontaneously crashing with the Dawn of Skirmish AI mod v2.60 anyone have any advice?

[thudmeizer]

Hmm Adv AI v2.60 for DC? Thought 2.80 was the last release for DC? I should just beta my v3.20 AI (for SS) which was ported to DC. Works quite nice actually but been too busy to just release it. Needs testing...

[GrOrc]

Thudo. What your comments about problem discussed in post #60?

[thudmeizer]

Hmm.. have to look at that with the team.

[Sakimoto]

Hmmmm i cannot find any v2.80 is there any particular place to search?

[thudmeizer]

Sorry 2.60 was the latest. No clue on your spontaneous crashing as noone else ever reported such a anomaly.

[Sakimoto]

well does anyone happen to know where I can send the Bugreport?

[thudmeizer]

DoW1 Adv. AI Home Base of course

[Sakimoto]

is there a way to get them camera from the mod into the regular Dark Crusade game?

[SpardaSon21]

There should be three files in the Dawn of Skirmish Data folder that control the camera, they are camera_ed.lua, camera_high.lua, and camera_low.lua. Copy/paste them into your DXP2/Data directory and you'll have the awesome camera in every mod you'll play on DC and in DC itself.

[Masacroso]

Hi. Im playins SS 1.20 and i tried this mod in the campaign. The question is that the heroes mod come activated by default in the campaign and i dont want it in the campaign, how i can disable it?

[jONES1979]

You need navigate to \Dowai_mod\Data\scenarios\sp\kaurava.map and open it in any editor.

Search for string DefaultSkirmishWinConditions and see below it. Delete or comment this string:

 "Heroes",

[Ghoulz]

Does the new version fix the IG and Eldar? In the last version the IG would only tech to tier 2 and that was it, and the Eldar teched to tier 4 very slowly and they would only spam guardians, vehicles, and their commander units. They might train a couple reapers or banshees at the very beginning, but not soon later it's ONLY guardians. How can these two races even compete with the others?

This is with Highspeed on, cause my computer isn't the best.

Also, I had build relics unchecked, but orks, SMs, Eldar, DE, and Tau would still make em(IG obviously can't cause they're still in tier 2!). Only race that is affected is Chaos. Is this still the same?

[MegaHurtzMPG]

I can say from experience that IG and Eldar definitely tech up - I see Fire Prisms, Leman Russes, etc. But it depends what type of game you play (how many players) and on the map. The AI rocks on some maps but on others it's easier, which is to be expected because of the sheer variety of maps out there. Playing with many AI on teams often makes for a shorter game and you can't really drag it out. Seems like I see some relic units more than others (for example it seems like I see AI Baneblades less than most others) but that could just be random and I admit I prefer to end the games sooner vs. IG once I see Basilisks.

[Ghoulz]

Well I hope the Eldar and IG will actually give me a challenge in this version. The Avatar didn't even give me a challenge cause he was backed up by useless guardians. Even the IG stuck in Tier 2 can wipe the floor with them.

And that was pretty much on 15 different maps I tried. Also, all the other races functioned just fine on every map. They build up every unit at a balanced scale.

Could that be because of the AI Highspeed? Makes no sense though cause the other races tech and build up just fine.

[thudmeizer]

It will give you a challenge and more. We've had countless hours of beta tests and code updates back in the day. Yer good to go with v3.20 Adv.AI for Soulstorm.

Oh and... never use AI Highspeed.. AI Donations, Annihilate, AIMapDB, and Heroes are all I go with. Play always on HARD as its true 1:1 with a human player.

[Ghoulz]

There's nothing I can do about that, the game becomes too slow to play with AI Highspeed unchecked.

Eldar and IG are still just as stupid...

[thudmeizer]

Sorry Ghoulz but then I cannot remotely help you: modern day RTSes for PC require escalating specs to compute moves, tactics, etc.. If you need to run the HIGHSPEED option and experiencing lackluster AI intelligence then what can I tell ya bro? Sincerely, you need to update that PC of yours because, frankly, the DoW1 engine is circa 2004 tech, thus, somewhat old. Time for a system refresh methinks?

[Ghoulz]

The other races build balanced armies and tech all the way up... that makes no sense that the AI requires more just to tech IG all the way up and train a few banshees.... It doesn't require that much just to research a simple dumb upgrade.

[thudmeizer]

Sorry man but IG and Eldar are treated the same code as the others. If anything why aren't Orks impacted then as they need banner towers to increase the Waaghh counts? Yer the only one ever experiencing AI build order issues with IG/Eldar and our last revision was June'08. I test our v3.20 AI almost everyday with our mod projects I work on and don't have so much a fart of problems because back in '08 after SS was released in Mar'08 was meticulous tested the SS v3.x Adv. AI to the t*ts otherwise the testers would have smacked us down with some serious whoop'nz. Trust me: its all been done awhile ago.

[Ghoulz]

From every map I tried the Orks function just fine. Can't beat a Tau AI though, no race manned by the AI can... even without dancing.

Ok, I tried without the highspeed, and the IG are still messy. They tech to tier 4, but often refused to build tier 3 units and so far never built lemon russes. And a couple maps they're stuck in tier 2 yet again.

Maybe it's just the style of maps I choose. Plus alot of downloaded ones. I don't touch the plain map types where everyone are spread out evenly.

Does the Eldar build order discourage the AI from building dark reapers/banshees late-end game? I never find spiders very threatening on a clustered team battle.

[thudmeizer]

- Tau, in SS v1.20 is grossly IMBA.
- Have you tried official DoW1 maps for testing IG and Eldar? IG has had reports of being somewhat lackluster in Tier2+. I've seen Lemans in Tier3 though.. I never found IG to be powerful anyway as a faction. Eldar.. thats different: all about their speed and fast attack. Its like the DR/Banshees are less valued by the AI in Tier3+ but I know how to fix that. Real simple really.

[Ghoulz]

I thought the Lemon was a tier 4 thing. I noticed that the Kasrkins and shreks don't seem to attact with priests or anything. And they don't make an assassin. The normal AI from Dark Crusade handled the IG quite well, save for HWTs.

Sure, the baracuda is quite an overpowered anti-vehicle aircraft, but Tau haven't been buffed that much. The Air Caste Strike was nerfed, It could kill 80% of a guardsmen swarm back in DC. The AI simply cannot cope with the SS spam. They're really good at staying alive and picking out vehicles on the spot. The ethereal is always getting killed, but they still can't be stopped.

Well, a Farseer and Seer Council alone isn't enough to tangle up a huge mob. They always bolt them in then quickly pull them out trying to keep them alive. And poor spiders come in to be gunned down with their crap range. Very ineffective on team games and maps like bloodshed alley. They should at least make use of reapers and banshees end-game with their generous upgrades.

Also, why are Wyches treated as ranged units...?

[thudmeizer]

- Except nothing BO-wise changed from DC to SS AI's use of IG. Its all the same except minor cost changes and 1 added unit (Marauder).
- All games the Tau pretty much steamroll over anything. I can never beat a 1:1 Hard Tau AI -- they're spam and firepower + ungodly range are simply too good.
- AI has to find a balance between teching and putting troops/vehicles on the field in a desirable quantity. Sure we can improve the AI from time-to-time but we have other priorities now. You'll never EVER get AI better than a human player: there is simply not remotely enough lines of code to make up for trillions of synapses in the human brain. Impossible. If you are real good at DC/SS or any RTS in general then chances are the local Skirmish AI won't offer much competition unless you give the AI ungodly resource bonuses.
- DE Wyches like all CC-based units switch between range or melee depending on whats required. Its not perfect but we tried.

[MegaHurtzMPG]

Well I admit I play a pretty modified version of DoW SS, but I'm still finding that the AI mod gives a different experience pretty much every time. For example, a while back I modded the Broadsides to be one unit and repairable (this was DC 1.0) and I actually saw the little buggers repairing them regularly - really cool - it's like the AI adapted to that change. I recommend playing around with the various AI options, and getting Corsix tools to balance the game to your taste. Corsix + AI mod + all these race mods are the reasons why this game is still so awesome, 6 yrs+ later.

[Ghoulz]

I never seen wyches go melee, maybe for a second if they're tangled by a melee squad. And it's a bit strange that the IG will often defend areas with their guardsmen, but go on the offensive with their HWTs. They act as if they're being commanded by a drunk or something.

Heh, the Tau commander is broken beyond words with the Heros mode enabled. I thought Inquisitor Toth and retinue were broken from DC's command squad mod.

[thudmeizer]

- How is the Tau Commander broken with the HEROES game mode enabled? That makes no sense.
- As Mega mentioned, if you want the AI to preform, script it yourself. Also, did you check out the AI Control Panel? Options include disallowing the AI to build secondary buildings or less teching so the AI can concentrate on spamming.

[Ghoulz]

Kidding right? I sent my commander out alone to help my allies and he broke the 3 on 2 stalemate being able to kill vehicles and stuff like obliterators from a artillery's viewpoint in just a few seconds. The other commanders can't cause that much damage from such a mad range, it's nuts. He was dealing 780/420 damage with his rifle/rockets from almost the same range as the body guards have. Even a daemon prince got pwnt. Plus the fact that it's so easy to keep him alive the entire battle while dishing out punishment.

I keep that build more buildings thing on. It seems to affect allies dramatically. I also always have the teching all the way down. They pretty much tech at the same speed, if im not rushing that is. I have no clue how to get the IG to behave normally. Eldar will at least try to be normal. I might have to raise the teching speed, cause the Eldar are really slow to upgrade their infantry.

[thudmeizer]

Kidding right? I sent my commander out alone to help my allies and he broke the 3 on 2 stalemate being able to kill vehicles and stuff like obliterators from a artillery's viewpoint in just a few seconds. The other commanders can't cause that much damage from such a mad range, it's nuts. He was dealing 780/420 damage with his rifle/rockets from almost the same range as the body guards have. Even a daemon prince got pwnt. Plus the fact that it's so easy to keep him alive the entire battle while dishing out punishment.

Actually I believe HEROES mod allows units to also upgrade their weapons' firepower as they grow in strength. What was the Tau Commanders EXP level? Not sure whats wrong as I do not see anything wrong with the Tau Commander in the HEROES code. Its the same as all other commanders in the HEROES code.

[MegaHurtzMPG]

Ghoulz - what difficulty are you playing? There is a pretty big difference in each. Are you playing with AI allies? Really, try some official maps. For example, the Adv AI really does well on Emerald River. And what is your control panel set to on the difficulty you play at?

Again, don't be afraid to play around with Corsix. I made the Insane have a smaller res bonus so it's beatable but challenging and I keep the AI control panel set to: Dancing - off, Attack delay - off, Tech Speed - very slow, Tech Handicap - off. And I leave all the options checked except for alternative strategies, but I turn it on every now and then.

Yes, some commanders are super tough when they get high ranking - ever fought a high level Archon? The dude zips around with his little reinforcing posse and is really annoying but you can kill him, same with Necron Lord - he's tough, especially Vs IG. But if you're trying to have a fun experience Vs AI, maybe just tweak some stats so those heroes don't seem so uber, or play without the Heroes mod.

Also, Tau are generally OP when it comes to playing Vs AI, it's pretty easy to win with them Vs AI so I would not base much on that - Fire Warriors just melt everything starting early on, it's not even funny. I thoroughly rebalanced them for myself and now find them both fun to play as and Vs. I find that the basic unmodded game is really biased towards ranged units (don't even get me started on melee walkers), at least if you play with AIs. Try making ASM or Berserkers tougher, and Tau FW Tier 2. Sounds crazy but if you play offline, who cares? It really makes the game more interesting.

[Ghoulz]

Well it's easy to level up the tau commander which why his large range/damage bonuses are pretty broken. I don't recall other commanders being very good towards vehicles which is another broken thing. Being able to snipe a hammerhead from a safe distance and take it out in under 10 seconds.

Yeah, I noticed my DE allie's archon zipping around here and there with around 9000 health. But if he's the enemy it's a no show, cause I'll gun him down on the spot before he starts gaining levels. Seer Council are pain to completely whack. I never see the necron lord use the nightbringer ability. I think the normal AI for the necron lord was better, he at least caused me many headaches. Teleporting on my broadsides or HWTs and turning into it.

It's kinda sad that the flayed ones got a massive health boost in SS, but berserkers still have less than 5000 full. They do deserve at least 8000 with final upgrades, I wouldn't say more because of their morale immunity. Banshees scale up very well. 102 damage, 9000 life, compared to 4800 life and 88 damage. Yet, Chaos spams berserkers alot more often than Eldar will with banshees. Chaos is only behind orks when it comes to casualties in the results. Alot of dead berserkers and defilers, ALOT. Stealthed CSM squads still make em a good challenge though.

How simple is it to edit this stuff with Corsix? I did modding on Age of Mythology, but it's as simple as opening stuff with a simple editor, and messing with the files using notepad.

[thudmeizer]

Well it's easy to level up the tau commander which why his large range/damage bonuses are pretty broken. I don't recall other commanders being very good towards vehicles which is another broken thing. Being able to snipe a hammerhead from a safe distance and take it out in under 10 seconds.

No clue where that bug came from as it would have been spotted by the testers OR since we released HEROES with our mod since, oh, 2007.. Find it odd we've had tens of thousands of public players and no one until now mentions this? hrrmm..

I never see the necron lord use the nightbringer ability. I think the normal AI for the necron lord was better, he at least caused me many headaches. Teleporting on my broadsides or HWTs and turning into it.

Thats absurd! The vanilla WA/DC/SS AI is braindead compared to ours + the Nightbringer Lord is an extension ability so it wasn't AI codable due to relic not exporting the game. Necron Lord controlled by our AI does a lot of smart teleporting so not sure what AI we're playing here.

Anyway, keep playing.. maybe we'll re-examine things for a 3.3 release.

[MegaHurtzMPG]

Ghoulz - it's super easy, but different than AoM, I've done both and I can say that while Corsix takes getting some used to you can do way more with that than just AoM notepad editing. Just download Corsix and play around - you can do many things to change the flow of the game and the experience you get with the AI mod, I've buffed all Space Marine-type units armor (and cost to make up for this) and haven't looked back. I can't play unmodded SS1.2, so many things seem paper thin to me. But that's all very subjective.

Back on topic though, I find the AI Necron Lord to be incredibly annoyingly effective. Dude teleports into crowds of Guardsmen, Solar Pulse, followed by popping up Flayed Ones, which is exactly what a human would do. Also, he teleports out and is really tough to hunt down. I've increased his teleport frequency with Corsix and man does he use it.

The only thing is that if you go Nightbringer or Deceiver with him, you lose your hero buffs so challenge-wise I'm glad the AI does not use it.

[Ghoulz]

Oh, the AI isn't *complete* in SS? I base most things back from DC, when Tau was the most useless AI:P I thought the AI would of been the same. I quickly installed skirmish once I got SS.

Eh? Was the Tau commander not meant to get a boost in something?

Ok, Corsix is SLIGHTLY more complicated than what im used to.

[shrp]

Version 3.3? I'm afraid that if this Advanced Skirmish AI gets any better, it may already become self-aware, hijack our computers and declare WW3 ;-)

[thudmeizer]

<sigh> AI can never be smart enough for the S. Korean Starcraft Society.

[Sucal]

Nothing can ever be smart/hard enough for them. You can make an AI that has all their units for free and take up no cap, built in less then a second and start at full strength with all weapons upgrades.

And they will still complain that its way to easy. Ignore the so called 'l33t', stick to the gaming proletariat the 95% or how ever many of us who still find this mod challenging at higher difficulties and enjoy the way that you give this game more life with every release. Its what the big companies do, and they seem to be making more money then ever.