Yes, that would be what I'm getting at. I'm aware that BattleTech is an offender in this regard, but they're certainly not the worst offender.Originally Posted by MentalAss
Yes, that would be what I'm getting at. I'm aware that BattleTech is an offender in this regard, but they're certainly not the worst offender.Originally Posted by MentalAss
Still, having an option of jumping in to lop off a shoulder missile rack or an arm pod is just icing really. The axeman still comes with various sizes of IS lasers, missiles and an AC-20. I understand your reasoning about distance > melee, but the case I'm getting to is options, the more I have, the better. Besides, nothing says "In Your Face!" like a DFA Hatchet Attack...Spetsnaz not included.
However, all you have to do is stay away from Kuritian space, as they are the offenders in this realm. You can't blame them though as they, story wise, would be akin to the ancient samurai.
Vultures, motherfucker....and Mad Dogs...
All I need are Vultures and Catapults and this'll be the best game ever. Even Mech4 delivered in that sense.
As for east < west, I actually am quite a fan of Eastern mecha. I like playing Western mecha games more, though. Also, bookmarked the Crysis mod, I'd not heard of that before...
Originally Posted by Wargrim
Mental, is there even anything "special" about the melee weaponry in BattleTech? Or is it just sharpened metal? From what I've read and played of in the BattleTech universe, I actually have never really been exposed much to the topic.
Battletech melee consisted of sharpened metal. Bludgeoning your opponents over the cockpit with your cannons. Picking up trees and swinging at your opponents. And if you were using agromechs, using mining tools as chainsaws. Really fucking big chainsaws.
It's a giant slab of metal mounted on a spring loaded servo.Mental, is there even anything "special" about the melee weaponry in BattleTech? Or is it just sharpened metal? From what I've read and played of in the BattleTech universe, I actually have never really been exposed much to the topic.
Primary use is actually for clearing out terrain, like dense forestry or a particularly inconvenient building.
Fluff-wise, though, it's been used for everything from shearing an arm off a mech to lopping off the head of a Daishi.
Word of Blake fluff takes melee obsession to a whole new level of crazy though.
Ah, yes, fond memories of picking up a firefly and beating the living shit out of a Thor.Battletech melee consisted of sharpened metal. Bludgeoning your opponents over the cockpit with your cannons. Picking up trees and swinging at your opponents.
You could call the Elemental fighting style melee, almost. They would jump on your mech, hold the laser right on your cockpit, and burn through. Kinda like a mosquito.
Yea, most of the meele comes from converted industrial mechs. Chainsaws, mining drills, that sort of stuff.
Or power armour.
I sort of question the effectiveness of these kinds of weapons on giant metal power armor, but if they are used primarily on the cockpit, I suppose that's a bit more reasonable.
Melee works in the battletech game....but in mechwarrior, when you can place 3 PPCs on a center torso with good aim and good luck? Ehhh.
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Ahem. Dear Clan/Inner Sphere fanbois.
Now shut up and enjoy the news.
In dense urban terrain, you can hide a hatchetman behind a tall building, then coldstart and lop some unsuspecting mech's head off.I sort of question the effectiveness of these kinds of weapons on giant metal power armor, but if they are used primarily on the cockpit, I suppose that's a bit more reasonable.
OR, when the mech invariably fails it roll when moving through rough terrain.....or gets hit by a heavy gauss cannon and falls down, you can execute it.
This is beyond awesome, I used to pack my good old Mechs with as many PPC as possible and shoot of my enemies legs. Good times, I am so looking forward to this game!
Sigh..I can still remember when PPCs didn't have to charge up...and didn't home in on you. Was it that long ago?
I have trouble picturing mechs of these sizes and caliber as being "stealthy". Especially in an urban setting; you'd think they'd have recon on this sort of thing.Originally Posted by Mithie
This could be pretty sweet. I myself was more a fan of the Eartsiege/Starsiege games though. Broke my poor little heart when Starsiege:2845 fell through...
Buildings in the battletech universe are pretty huge, and the only way to tell between a mech that's powered down and the building it's standing behind is through visual contact - and the precise moment you lay your eyes on that mech is probably a couple of seconds before you get your head lopped off.I have trouble picturing mechs of these sizes and caliber as being "stealthy". Especially in an urban setting; you'd think they'd have recon on this sort of thing.
Of course, if they have a flight of stilettos or peregrines scouting from the air, it's a different story.
Oh please god no... no, we don't need that horrible debris field of aborted fetuses involved in any future endeavours. Not only did that game suck like a Dyson convention, it ruined tabletop gaming for several of my friends permanently. My opinion of course...Originally Posted by 3DMARINE
...actually, we need all the mechs from the Wizkids game to be in it. And we need melee weapons like they used to use.....and Agromechs.
Anyway, MW2 style gaming is where it's at. I want to feel like I'm in the driver seat, it's more intense than 3rd person. I do think variations on the mechs visually based on their loadout would be great, though I want to have the original battletech build flexibility.
"Alright Kiff, let's show them what a bloated, runaway defense budget can do!" - Zapp Brannigan
When I was looking into ArgoMechs, I found an interesting topic about someone named Trent discussing it:
They certainly don't sound very competitive.Originally Posted by Trent
They're mining vehicles usually, still nasty things to run into in a city though. Think the gears of war jump out of cover and chainsaw, but with big ol walking tanks.
The Hatchetman and other melee-using mechs were to take advantage of physical attacks in BattleTech, something that until now could only be represented with ramming. Personally I'd like to see physical attacks get implemented into the game somehow... allowing the 100ton Atlas to, say, knock out a Jenner with a punch to the face. Or tripping another mech. Or quads mule-kicking.
I bought up east versus west mecha because outside of Battletech the west didn't really have their own answer to giant robots. It feels like it's still that way, since although giant robots make appearances in western games (Supreme Commander as someone mentioned, and the GDI battle walkers in Tiberium Sun as another example), they aren't the primary focus.
I also think the Timberwolf was an appropriate icon for western mecha: inhuman shape, clunky, and with weapons prominent.
I still remember when PPCs were blue balls of energy. Imagine the surprise I felt when they turned out to be lightning bolts instead! (This was of course due to the rendering limitations of MW2...)Sigh..I can still remember when PPCs didn't have to charge up...and didn't home in on you. Was it that long ago?
I remember rules for creating these AgroMechs in the MaximumTech expansion for the tabletop game. I can't see what anyone else would want to do with them either except make something different and play them for a challenge. I was a little put off by the fact that the "New" Battltetech appeared to have them as a focus, rather than a novelty.
Great. Now I'm tempted to dust off my ten year old plus copy of the game and play a few rounds.
Author: Children of Kadesh, Children of Kadesh (book 2), The Taiidan Civil War, The Fire ,Tradition, Outcry (oneshot), Chronicles of the Nadiim-Basad,
and maker of the Map of the Homeworld universe, and the Homeworld 2 Grand Strategy Game. Responsible for Cataclysm 2nd. Also has a running short story collection.
I think the most recent thing we had that was close to mechwarrior was the walkers in BF:2142
You could try downloading the megamek computer adaptation....They have most of the rules. And actually have a really sweet add-on multiplayer that makes you earn money (ingame money of course) to repair and rearm, or buy new units after matches.
The online thingy-majiger
Last edited by 3DMARINE; 8th Jul 09 at 10:48 AM.
Mk. IIs are the best mark and my favorite mech. It just looks so incredibly badass.NO....Timber Wolfs.......and Nova Cats......and Mad Dogs.......And Mad Cat MkIIs.
Also Mechassault was a fun game shut up jerks.
My Interceptor is better than your Interceptor.
"This is HQ to any available unit. We have mechs down at Nav Gama. Bravo Cadet reports four subjects on site. Bandits are hostile."
And so started one of the most beloved games I've ever played. This new mech game better be more along the lines of MW2 and 3 less 4. I liked the more realistic weapon points in 3, over 2, but it was fun to load dual AC20s and ERPPCs into a Daishi and alpha blast anything into kingdom come.
I've been waiting a looooooooooooooong time for this. I'm going to be seriously pissed if it doesn't hold up to my ridiculously high expectations.
And just in case you want to watch the MW2 intro:
Btw the MW2 soundtrack is all kinds of awesome as well. I still listen to it occasionally.
I hope small children throw sharp objects at you and call you rude names.Originally Posted by Starblade
Last edited by Ira Aduro; 8th Jul 09 at 11:31 AM.
You're forgetting Heavy Gear. Like Battletech, but significantly more realistic because instead of being fifty feet tall they're only fifteen. Still way too tall to be realistically militarily useful, though.I bought up east versus west mecha because outside of Battletech the west didn't really have their own answer to giant robots
I can't help thinking mechs would be totally useless whatever the setting.
Silence, freebirth scum!Filthy clanner.
Seconded. Ugh, that was a horrible game.I hope small children throw sharp objects at you and call you rude names.
Personally, I hope they highlight the combined-arms aspect a little more in this game, while combining that with the better loadout systems of MW3.
I think my dream would be the ability to give commands to points, or even stars of vehicles/elementals which you could call in for controlling certain points on the battlefield. So many ways in which the developers can be innovative gameplay-wise and so, SO much to draw on for source material.
I know it is absurd to wish for but I also hope they steer clear of the Republic of the Sphere era.. that entire debacle practically put a bullet in the head of the franchise.
Aside point in regards to eastern vs. western mecha.. different subgenres are different. Stop being hostile and fowling up this good news.
Last edited by Ulric Bekker; 8th Jul 09 at 11:55 AM.
I can think of a couple of thing that someone would legitimately want to use a mech for. Something like a WH40k Sentinel used for scouting and light fire support would have some advantages over traditional vehicles. Also, something like the Elemental suits would have it's advantages. But yeah, in general you're right.I can't help thinking mechs would be totally useless whatever the setting.
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I kind of love that the pre-rendered video sequences in those games actually pale in comparison to today's in-game graphics.
I can think of several situations in which a psychologically imposing, all-terrain walker with the firepower and armor of several tanks and the power core of a modern day submarine requiring only one pilot could be very useful for conventional warfare situations..
I had intended to mention as well, the primary reason that I saw vehicles as being "less powerful" than 'Mechs is because it is much harder to disable/destroy a 'Mech. Not only is it much more mobile and carry with it the possible threat of jump jets, but with a vehicle you punch through its armor and it has had it, a 'Mech can keep on fighting with several holes, a useless limb, one bad leg, etcetera. Even if you melt armor and fuse a limb in place completely a 'Mech still has more mobility and is much deadlier than a tank with it's turret frozen in place and/or a track thrown.
Edit: Graphics technology has indeed come a long way. Makes me salivate for the visual feast that could potentially come with this game.
This would be true if they were small enough to not be shot at but just about everything within a few miles. Unfortunately, mechs the size of buildings are not, in fact, useful in any sense. A single man-portable RPG could knock out the mech's reactor. Armor technology just isn't good enough, or likely to be good enough, to protect against a man-portable missile without crippling the vehicle's performance.I can think of several situations in which a psychologically imposing, all-terrain walker with the firepower and armor of several tanks and the power core of a modern day submarine requiring only one pilot could be very useful for conventional warfare situations..
A 'mech' a little larger than a person is much more likely, but one that's even the height of a house is too large to be effective. All they are is a big stinking target.
I like mechs, but I don't think they're very realistic as a big combat unit. Some sort of small scout unit? Yea but a huge arse tall as a building robot is just asking to get blown to bits. You can never make it's legs as strong as a tanks armour. If a shell hit a tank it might be able to withstand it, but if it hits a mechs leg that things going to be face down in the rubble. It be really vulnrable in an urban situation, infantry wouldn't have to much trouble taking it's legs out. I'd argue that it's much easier to disable than a tank, considering it relies on two legs. The only reason the Large arse walkers in Star Wars are used is because of their shielding which makes them practically invulnrable. ( Of course until rebels tie rope around their legs lol)
All that doesn't matter though as mechs are awsome. I really can't wait for this game, I've recently got a joystick for Freespace so I'd love to try it out on a new mech game. I sadly never got into the old one's.
You have a point. Rpg's are used quite frequently to cripple mechs. Once there is armor breaching missiles can be SRM's(rpg) and lrm's can cause massive damage to joints and the engine. But they almost never can kill anything bigger than a heavy by themselves. An abrams tank cannon is probably between an ac-10, and an ac-20. Of course, mechs can carry ac10's that fire full auto, so the tank is going to outclassed. Basically your auto cannon is a tank gun, and mechs almost always carry more than one. Note, the ac20 is capable of dropping a light mech in shot, and a medium in 2-3. The heavies and assault mechs are a little tougher though.
Also I heard somewhere that heavy mechs have more armour than assault mechs...is that battletech, or was that the stupid Blood Asp assault mech in MA 2?
You can never make it's legs as strong as a tanks armour.But it's the future!Armor technology just isn't good enough, or likely to be good enough, to protect against a man-portable missile without crippling the vehicle's performance.
Seriously though, suspend a your disbelief a little, they are big bad ass machines strapped to the teeth with every futuristic weapon you can think of. Also, jump jets are awesome..
I'm talking about vibes dude! - Octopus Rex
This is chess, not checkers.
I think a mechanical leg is far more venerable for a vehicle than a tread system. A tread is usually well concealed into the body of a tank, while mechanical legs are entirely exposed. This sort of makes them a more desirable target; why go for the heavily armored torso when you can shoot out its legs? Also, a Mech relies on its legs for stability; a Tank does not rely on its treads for this.Originally Posted by Ulric
Well, we're already assuming that in some situations, giant sharp metal sticks are more desirable to projectiles and lasers. So, hell, it's not much of a leap to suspend my disbelief in the rest.Originally Posted by Noble
You always aimed for the legs....most of the weapons could tear legs and arms off with just a few shots.
Unfortunately, due to the bouncing you get, and from the fact tthat the legs and arms were always moving, targeting computers had trouble locking onto them, so the body tends to get hit more.
Hey, I enjoy the games just fine. I was just saying you can't call Mechs 'realistic' in any sense. Suspending disbelief when debating reality is contraindicated.Seriously though, suspend a your disbelief a little, they are big bad ass machines strapped to the teeth with every futuristic weapon you can think of. Also, jump jets are awesome..
I disbelieve your existence..but I can suspend my disbelief so I have someone to talk to
I think someone earlier in the thread had it right when they said Battletech isn't more realistic, but more 'believable' than some of the eastern mech fictions.
Look, 3025 is the only setting that can possibly wash the taste of the Blake Jihad from mouth.
What I want: Option to start as either a merc or a house unit lance commander. Most battles are overly large set pieces wherein not every objective is completable (nor is the terrain traversable in the time limit. Behavior both during and in-between missions affects what occurs during combat. A bit of light RPG character building stuff culled from the Mech Commander series. MW3 style mech-customization. Old Mechs/weapon sets where heat is actually a factor. Melee. Jumpjets. Shadowhawks.
"The superior man...does not set his mind either for anything, or against anything; what is right he will follow."
-Confucius, The Confucian Analects
When it comes to Realism, nothing can beat Steel Battalion. Of course, it goes without saying that MechWarrior is closer to Steel Battalion than any of the Gundam Games... if nothing else then for the clunkiness of the machines.
Earthseiege was another western mech idea, but for some reason it fizzled out. Battletech was unique among the western robot games in that it crossed genres, making it into a boardgame, computer game, virtual simulator pods, books, a hodge-podge animation, and even a card game. Can any other western robot show claim similar accolades? It's the closest match to Gundam than any of the other western contenders.
...Which is why I want to see it continue.
I, too, hope they just drop the WizKids continuity and keep going with "Classic" Battletech. To my surprise, it seems that some of the MaximumTech stuff is being accepted as "Standard" within the latest versions of the rules (This includes clan Coyote's ATR missile launchers, Rotary auto cannons, and armor types). I can only wonder where they'd go from there? And what will we see in the new game?
Another question for new Mechwarrior: would you welcome the Clans being a part of it? I grew up with Mechwarrior 2, so for my part I'd want to ride clan machines over Inner sphere ones. But I'd guess there's some appeal for inner-sphere only settings and equipment... would many of you wish for a pre-invasion setting for the new game? Or would you want Clan machines and equipment to be part of the inventory?
3DMarine, your "Awesome" gag gave me a good chuckle.
And I haven't been so excited by a couple of seconds of prerendered footage as I was by that little teaser. Fingers crossed that this will be a sim like the older ones...
Look at the bright side, kid - you get to keep all the money.
Alex, I wasn't trying to undermine your preference and I certainly won't justify the WoB fiasco, however, eliminating the Clans and their mechs will most likely piss off quite a few people. It's not in the developers' best interest to shun those people, so having a sole IS scenario is quite simply bad for business.
Other than the choice of year, I will stand by the rest of your ideas. I especially like your take on a hint of RPG. It could make the player more attached to his respective pilot.
I'd be comfortable with a 3025 starting time, so long as the game progressed with different main characters and plot lines through varying campaigns through to the end of the clan wars. (and NO further, PLEASE...)
@Drake - I like those ideas, especially large set-piece battles with the necessity to pick and choose which objectives to complete and which to leave to one's lance-mates or the rest of the company. Such choices could lead to non-linear campaigns and other interesting mission changes and plot twists later on in the game.
And yes, less arcade, more sim-style, more vehicle types in general, a red-faction-esque destructible terrain system would also be VERY nice, and a larger overall catalogue of old-school IS mechs AND clan mechs, or perhaps, seperate sets of available mechs based on what House/merc company/clan you pick at the beginning of the game (not that any of this has even been mentioned by the devs or anyone associated with this project, I'm just getting way ahead of myself in my excitement).
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
I'd be comfortable with a progressive timeline as well. Could you imagine Tukayyid with Drake's idea of set-piece battles? Hell, just watching my entire Clan's Galaxy Command blown out of the sky in glorified CGI would be amazing, yet tear jerky.
We're all bound to get ahead of ourselves in the ideas department. It has been quite some time for those ideas to have festered.
So long as I get to drive a Timberwolf again, I'm happy.
That's been my favorite mech ever since I picked up Battletech.
Me, for one. I'm a Clanner to the core. I enjoy nothing more than blowing apart IS Mechs piece by piece.Originally Posted by MentalAss
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