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MasterBlaster, I question your intelligence if you continue to build a full gen farm each game, when you insist yourself that the techmarine loses every initial engagement. It would probably be better off spending that req to buy troops instead of investing it in power like an idiot.
Unless of course, you're just making it up.
DoW II - Saunders
CoH - CommanderNewbie
Saunders.
TM cant win engagements agasint any other hero and race in game(discounting tac problems and assuming equal skill) without wargear.
Wargear costs energy
Yet the energy also has to be spent on stuff like scout shotguns.
You cant get enough energy without laying down a a farm.
Your even claimed this is fine in the TM thread I started, you go and be insulting "questioning" my intelligence when you dont even play 1vs1 games and your suggestion to why the techmarine is balanced is.. because in 2vs2 and 3vs3 your buddies can help protect him.
How about you dont bother commenting on things you have yourself admited to having no experiance with.
TM needs power to fight
SM needs power to fight(beyond op tacs which shouldnt be taken completely into account they will be nerfed or otherraces will be buffed)
You have to gamble your oppoent will make a mistake, or not try to kill your gens, or you manage to supermicro and somehow save them.
OR your enemy just sucks, doesnt bother exploiting the fact its much harder for you to hit there gens, or as a TM you have to spend power to have a unit that can at least stay in battle for a littlewhile before having to withdraw.
There is a rather large power vacum between a TM with no power to spend on skills and a TM with power, which is why TM players have to really get gens from the start.
then dont over use your TM. heck i have players who give me the advice "dont upgrade hero till tier 2" all the time in the after game chat. so i guess i will say dont waster power on the TM till tier 2...unless the TM NEEDS his tier 1 gear...which i think can wait if the majority of the problems are solved with shotty scouts and tacs. and since you wont be spending power on the TM you have more for scouts.
Acceptance- Seeing how hopefully shitty you are and moving on.
The point is the TM is worse than the rest of the heroes, that means that in an X squads + hero vs. X squads + hero matchup the TM will allways lose, (given identical player skill). The only way to even even that matchup out is to outlay power. And thats power thats not being spent on your squads making your squads infiriour in the matchup, if you somehow get enoug power to outlay on everything then your still only matching your opponnent and your opponnent has out-teched you in the process. But in the end you'll never have the power because you'll suffer badly in those first few engagments so you;ll never get your power econemy going if your opponnent presses his advantage.then dont over use your TM. heck i have players who give me the advice "dont upgrade hero till tier 2" all the time in the after game chat. so i guess i will say dont waster power on the TM till tier 2...unless the TM NEEDS his tier 1 gear...which i think can wait if the majority of the problems are solved with shotty scouts and tacs. and since you wont be spending power on the TM you have more for scouts.
Ultimutly the issue is the opver importance of gens ATM. They're so vital to any early game econemy that if their is even a slight weakness in your strategy that gets taken advantage of, your dead.
I don't know what i'm talking about, ignore me.
Thousands of years ago, Egyptians worshipped what would become our ordinary housecat. The cats have never forgotten this.
i have seen a tac squad manage to chip a good amount of my hp from my warboss. they were taking a point up on a hill and the warboss took some pretty good ranged hits during what i guess was a tiring trek up hill...
In response to the flamer vs turret thing...while marine turrets may still be excellent in this role, orks have a little disadvantage here in that their burna boyz really want to melee that turret, and in doing so, expose themselves to its fire. This is a little irritating...there's no way to override this, is there?
Yes, but it doesn't combust, releasing free energy. At least not anything you'd build a military-grade installation out of. Yeah, thermite and white phosphor and all that...you don't make a generator out of thermite. Again, I really don't see why fire would hurt one of these things worse than 100 caliber rounds would, let alone why 100 caliber rounds seem to be less effective than smacking one with the butt of a rifle.metal certainly does melt
Edit:
Oh, and
is a pretty lame argument. I don't need to be an electrical engineer to know that a pentium is faster than a 486, I don't need to be a doctor to know that I should wash my hands after I wipe my bum, I don't need to be in a train wreck to know it sucks, and I don't need to be a software developer to know if a game is balanced.I forgot everyone in this thread is a game balancer and all of you work for various development teams balancing games.
Conversely, being an electrical engineer, doctor, or programmer doesn't automagically make you right, either.
Last edited by BudgetMessiah; 11th Jul 09 at 7:43 PM.
Against Orks I use a HBDev to guard my own power and get a flamer Tac to kill the opponent's power. I go for 2 scouts, because of map control and shotguns. The scout and HBDev come out first, the Tacs only after all power is built and I use the FC. It works fairly well.
GFWL gamertag/ LoL name: ReadInPeace
Just call me Readin'
I am going to change my opinion a little bit on this and say that HBDev (and other hwts) should do damage about on par with what tac squads and scout squads are doing. It justs feels wrong having them shooting at a gen and doing nothing at all. But, there is nothing strategically wrong with it, since you have options for destroying gens. As for the original issue of Vengeance Rounds, I don't see anything wrong with them doing nothing extra to gens except for the same as above of it feeling a little off. But if I gave it a bonus I would make it very small.
at a guess the devs don't want people to be able to destroy gens at the range the dev team has. which is understandable.
it doesnt destroy gens at range, because its damage is reduced ot nothing at range, a scout squad can stand at max range for a few mintues and not die, if the same damage reduction was applied to vengence rounds it would have only done very light damage.
#61
I wish that I hadn't had such a shitty weekend so that I would've checked in on this thread earlier... at least 2 or 3 people would've gotten warnings and probably been kicked out of the thread. As it stands, those people can see this as a moment of grace to stop tossing shit around in threads or else action will be taken to ENSURE that they stop tossing shit around in threads.
If you can't have civil conversations about the subject at hand, then you have no business posting in this thread.
i'm not sure what you're saying mb. given that they reduced the damage to gens from hb teams and shuri plates, i would guess that relic wants you to have to get quite close to them to do damage. which probably favours your beloved tm because it makes using turrets to defend your power easier and more viable.
didn't they increase the long range damage of set up teams..?
yep, and most units still regenerate health faster then damage at range from hwt.....
yeah that is daft. they should be most effective at range and less effective at short range to reward those that use spotters and those that can close in with melee troops without taking fire.
vengence rounds seem to have been nerfed with no patchnotes saying so.
they nolonger deal decent damage to vehicles just lost a game because I was expecting 3 vengence devs to take down a walker I had emped.......
wraithlord didnt even lose half its health.
Lets take a trip back on the 'way back machine'. Back in vanilla DOW2, platforms and devastators used to cost no power, and were often fielded as a way of gaining map control by parking them on important points and denying other races that were not as mobile.
They were good at this. Perhaps a bit too good.
Another benefit they had was that they could raze a generator farm in seconds. Want to know what the big problem was? Ask an Eldar/Ork player back in 1.3...
We couldn't do anything about it.
One of the benefits is that these troops fired in an arc, and our troops had no real way of reaching them. We couldn't go straight down the middle because of suppression. And if we tried to flank, it would take to long to get around the obstacles and the gen farm would be gone. And they could do this all by themselves while the rest of the army is out capping the map. Not very balanced it?
The Nids at the time could deal with it. Raveners burrow, fast gaunts, and a generally overpowered race. SM could deal with it as well if they survived long enough to get ASM's.
But what could the Eldar and Orks do? Edlar? FOF... but they still have to deal with the damage penalty of FOF. Orks? Stormboyz aren't the awesome unit then they are now, and Stickbommas didn't have enough range. If you happened to playing a Mekboy/Warp Spider Exarch you could jump and force them into melee. Thats highly situational though.
So Relic made a blanket change to all suppression units. The Devastators, Platforms, Lootas, and the Mekboy + Suppression all got beaten with the Nerf Hammer. No more high damage to Gens.
They also got a power cost: so that the time they come to join the party your opponent will bring their counters with spirits.
Pretty much hit the nail on the head. Devastators did everything and it was sick. They took the ability to do high damage to buildings with their vengeance rounds.I think removing the Vengeance Round damage to power farms and turrets was good in the current balance mindset simply because HBDs were filling too many roles in 1.4.1 (AI, AV, power harass, turret destruction), especially when compared with the other HWTs.
So what does that leave the SM with? TACs can shoot a Gen down, but not as fast as melee. Or they can melt them with flamers. Or you can park your Devastators behind your SM army as they chew through the gen farm unopposed.
If you choose not to field flamers as you believe they suck, and you get run over by melee in tier 1 or the enemy, its your mistake. The SM have options, and TACs are better then ever right now (perhaps a bit too good?). Their flamer upgrade is amazing, and should not be ignored.
The SM have options. Thats why they hand me my ass from time to time in 1 on 1 in 1.4.2 unlike 1.4.1
Last edited by Frigidair44; 14th Jul 09 at 8:13 AM. Reason: forgot something
The Mullet is power distilled to pure perfection.
great frigidair except one problem.
Vengence rounds was the only counter to turrets tier1.
.Vengence rounds was the only counter to turrets tier1
Turret spam is a problem post 1.4.2 is a problem, but that is a whole other thread and balance issue altogether. They do have a counter: Flamers can take them down real quick.
Assault marines can jump, make a mess of things and pave the way to take them down.
Orks are in the same boat. Stormboyz can jump, make a mess of things, and pave the way take them out.
Nids can make use of Ravener's can jump, make a mess of things, and pave the way to take them out. Or burrow with the Alpha but that is highly situational.
Eldar can fleet of foot with Gaurdians, toss a few plasma grenades, and pave the way to take them out.
It just sounds to me like you miss your easy answer to taking them down quickly. I miss one shotting them with Stickbommas but I can't do that anymore. Its just not the way the game is played now.
For the record, plasma grenades don't do much damage to turrets.
I understand that. Thats why they "pave the way" to taking them out.For the record, plasma grenades don't do much damage to turrets.
Nothing really takes down turrets quickly short of flamers in tier 1 (and the Eldar and Nids have it worse). Even then, you have to get said flamer units around the suppression arc to the turrets... not to mention whatever the SM player your facing has up his sleeve.
My point is that you need to coordinate yourself to take down turrets in Tier 1. Vengeance Rounds were a bug and never meant to take them out that easy.
Last edited by Frigidair44; 14th Jul 09 at 12:56 PM. Reason: diction
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Originally Posted by roflmao