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#1
Just received the notice that the beta has ended; these forums will soon be archived. Use this thread to post overall impressions of the beta, thoughts on where the patch is taking the game, and changes that you hope to see implemented in the final version of the patch. Please note that this DOESN'T mean "random speculation" or things that you want to see in the game at some point.
Edit from Noble: Note that the beta balance and strategy forum has been archived.
Lol i got the notice too but i can still play it
Matchmaking also seems to workhaha I love relic
You got the notice and the option to degrade
I hope they fix them turrets, and overally fix the game in a way, that OPed spamming will be out of the picture, cause truth be told, 1.4.x is way better than 1.3.x. Relic really did good job with the beta, but it's still a long road from perfection.
1.4 is the best version I have played the game yet.
Now we wait n see what ultimately happens.
Go RELIC!
i cant go on DOW2 now like, im going to bed because it's 4:00AM. do we lose the balancing added in beta?
Well if u downgrade willingly jesOriginally Posted by insanity99
well i have never played DOW2 at 1.3. i got the game only last week and have played the beta since then. so i will keep it.
they clearly did a great job and i look forward to the full release of the patch.
If there is a small nerf to tac marines and apothecary and a small buff to tyranids over all, Relic will have a reall winner on their hands imo.
nooo no nerf to tacs
maybe the apoth heal
but tacs dps is fine, both melee and ranged
the race needing abit of a push its the nids now, somethings weird with them, like the zoan, its kinda useless now, and the fexes are not "living engines of destruction" anymore
#11
As a general rule, 1.4 improved the game in a lot of good ways but it took a a step backwards in one area:
Build Orders.
SM and Nids had 3 starting units to choose from that were Req only in 1.3 and Eldar/Ork had low-power T1.5 units not that far away. At least 3 of 4 units were available within 1 minute of the game for all races. Hopefully HWT get a decrease in power so they're available sooner, giving 2 of the 4 races a little more flexibility in build orders. I don't imagine Stikks, Warriors, Ravs or Stormboyz will be receiving cost changes so Ork and Nids will still need to wait a little bit, but Orks do pretty well in T1 anyway and Nids aren't too shabby either.
I just hate that as SM, I pretty much have to go Tacs first. There is no other starting build order. While that still might be the case, at least the HB Dev could be an option before the 2nd Tac.
I won't say much more than that but I hope there's more diversity in the early game.
Will we lose the ranks/points gained from the Beta 1.4.2?
Just wondering.
EDIT:
Also, I rather enjoyed the patch.
Hope they reset the whole 60-second plasma grenade cooldown for Guardians.
i told you it cant be removed, if you dont like that as an answer then go fuck yourself.
- soulblighter
#13
The trueskill/ranks is the same system as retail. I don't think they could reset the beta gains even if they wanted to.
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Nids not shabby in t1? Nids lack a good soft counter for av in t1. Maning only t2 rush viable option. Its sad since they have great potential. A well played SM Will beat a well played nid everytime. Due to flamer harass.
Well, one good thing that came from beta was that finally people stopped screaming about how "nids are OP!", changing those screams to "nids are UP!"
And yet again Relic showed us why big changes made in several places at once can cause unexpected results (double ravener nerf made them useless , turbo tanks make melee AT fade in to nonexistence, previous ubershotgun scouts, long T1 made turrets *^%#!!! tier and others).
Imagine what would happen if that patch went live without beta. Oooh boy.
No one has a "good" soft counter to vehicles in T1 (except maybe banshees...those are pretty good at killing vehicles). On the other hand, every unit nids have at T1 except termagants does fair AV damage. It's usually enough to push a vehicle back, if not kill it, which is all anyone can really do against a vehicle that's being used carefully.
I think nids could use stronger AV at Tier 2 and 3. Carnifexes don't seem to have the raw power that their price tag suggests. And in general, synapse is more punishing than it is beneficial.
Everyone seems hung up on the tactical marine situation, and I think they might be a little better balanced if they were slightly tougher, but a little less damaging. They tear apart melee units a little too well on their approach.
Overall I'm pleased with the beta and think the changes are moving the game in the right direction. Folks have touched on other points that concern me (Tac/Apoc problems, excessive power cost for some units, etc.) and I would just add that I hope Relic considers increasing the tier three cost. Right now (especially for Orcs) the 1.3 attitude of fast teching remains and many tier two units are being skipped in favor of reaching tier three quickly.
Very successfull patch/beta I enjoyed it very much. Some tweaks for Nids and Tac blobs and we re mostly set. The game is definitely in the right direction and lived up to my expectations so far.
The beta was definitely better than those battle reports showed.
Now what to do till patch gets released..... :S
append the forsaken Farseer to the list of hoped for and expected changes.
I've only started playing frequently during this beta, but this is the most fun I could have. The game feels fresh and a lot more dynamic than before. I also like that some unit were seperated, the awesome new Obs mode, and the re-implementation of some random abilities.
I see the 1.4 version of both DoW 2 and its predecessor being great as to be a mystical coincidence (I hope the grammar was right here).
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Just call me Readin'
#21
I confess that I haven't enjoyed or played DOW2 this much since release, when I got sick of Rav/Spore mines after the first week.
DOW2 feels like its been given new life, but as many people have stated the stagnation of tier 1 to 1.5 is now really annoying. Power costs are crippling. Its no wonder people tac spam, when tacticals cost no power.
You should check out Priority Vox Channel Secundus, a blog!
They've still got balancing work to do especially in the SM-Eldar match-up (well, tacs and blobbing in general - why they nerfed anti-blob control vs SM is beyond me) but overall I enjoyed the game more.
Won't be starting up as 1.3 as I don't want to meet rippers and shooty nidz again.
Yep, I'll be trying to finish the campaign for the most part.
The beta had its problems, but it was understandably a beta. I just can't go back after getting a taste of just some of the changes in the next patch.
While generally positive about the changes made in the beta there were a couple of areas that I felt could do with some tweaking
- I feel that there should be more of an AV option in tier 1 so you can risk delaying teching for longer
- I feel that the number of viable builds has dropped
Light a candle for the sinners, set the world on fire
T1 upgrades and T1.5 units need an overall reduction in power cost. T3 needs a cost increase. Otherwise the metagame is fine imo..
#26
I'm moving this up to the DoW2 general discussion since this forum is about to be archived.
Regarding 1.4, I really enjoyed it. They made a lot of progress, and at the very least they were able to shake up the meta-game a bit and give us a fresh look at the game. It's too bad we'll have to wait some undetermined amount of time to get these changes back.
#27
The beta process was full of too much whine and not enough think, but thats to be expected in an open beta.
Bugs were squashed, banance was found, and I got to play a relic game as the most fearsome army of all (for a week) ... a rare feat!!!
I think that SM healing has to be reworked a bit to allow for their present toughness to ranged fire. Apoth passive healing needs a nerf, and the Relay might need an AOE nerf since its main function now is a fall back point with healing thrown in for good measure.
Nids need to be tweaked up a bit... but I also think that spore mines are just not being used the way they should to make up for some Nid deficiencies. I think a great many ills for the Nids could be solved by bumping the "charge up" timer on mines to 8 seconds but making the unit both tiny and speed 7. Increase the energy cost to make them less spammy, or hard cap them... but this should solve the issue of ranged-blobs melting nid charges in tier 2.
Eldar are fine. The only thing I'd like to see is the BLPlat durability increased somehow. Set-up AV has some real problems with certain maps, leaving eldar in a bit of a pickle about how to deal with fast mechs.
Orks will probably need the most long term fixes now. Tier 3 is still too attractive over tier 2. Ork swarms feel right though... scary and deep in numbers. This is how orks should look IMO. Now, if we can just work snotlings and grots into the order of battle...
Oh, and Buff IG.
Ra Owa : AAHHHH!!!! ITS A ROCK!
Troubleshooter : Wha... oh... Pfffttt... Prove it. :}
Ra Owa : ... [sputtering] ... o.O ... Its SCIENCE!
#28
For your viewing pleasure, the Archive can be read here.
A good step in the right direction but still some issues.
As others said, AV choices in T1 are not good (and imo intuitive) enough, specially for Tyranids.
Power costs are too high in T1, limiting options.
Tac blobs are too powerfull. The huge armor buff plus dps buff was too much at a time. Dps should be nerfed slightly imo.
Ravener dps nerfs were too harsh. They cant properly counter heavy armor troops in CC, whats even the point of giving them "power weapons" at all? Also basic Warrior melee dps might get a buff. A Slugger is is more damaging than Warrior? Thats just wrong. And the AG upgrade is too expensive.
Barbed stranglers however are way too good. They surpress hard and do great AoE damage. The damage should be nerfed quite a bit, for Warriors and Screamer Killer Carnis. The venom cannon upgrade should be much better against vehicles for the Carnifex or there is not much point to it, considering the difference to the unupgraded one and the high final costs.
The basic T2 Carnifex needs more dps, specially against vehicles. Its strongly outdamage by dreadnoughts and Wraithlords which makes him lose in a straight 1on1, despite beeing more expensive and having no ranged attack or other ability like the other walkers. That is pathetic, wrong and unfair. the prize is right, the hp could be considered right (50 more or so wouldn't hurt) but the dps needs to be buffed, atleast against vehicles.
CC commanders need to be tougher. With every T1 unit beeing buffed, specially the melee ones they don't last on the frontline where they belong. This looks like an oversight. Warboss is pretty strong either way, so I'm not sure about him. But specially FC and Lictor appear too fragile.
Setup teams like shuriken platforms are still too weak to be used properly in a competative game.
HT synapse wargear is a must have, probably because its too good, the other options look fine imo.
The synapse death boom might be too harsh
...
#30
I really think this was more of a problem with the apothecary than with tactical blobs. I was usually able to combat tactical blobs with crafty use of suppression weapons. This would force the player to diversify their build some. The exception being when there was an apothecary constantly topping all his troops off with heals. Then the situation became much more difficult.Tac blobs are too powerfull. The huge armor buff plus dps buff was too much at a time. Dps should be nerfed slightly imo.
DPS is over the top on ranged. I have to run two slugga squads and retreat one by the time they are in melee to deal with tacs. That damage buff was unnecessary.nooo no nerf to tacs
maybe the apoth heal
but tacs dps is fine, both melee and ranged
Try that fight as an Ork. You cannot win. Ever. Apothecary needs the cool down on his heal increased big time. All you see is Space Marine players skipping power to field two TACs then decimating everything with them and steamrolling the map.The exception being when there was an apothecary constantly topping all his troops off with heals.
The Mullet is power distilled to pure perfection.
#32
The beta was fun and they've made some nice changes in terms of the overall game. However, I can't help but think playing the beta will make the actual patch release somewhat anticlimactic and will also make it feel stale that much sooner.
As for FooF's comment regarding build orders: I'm not sure I agree. Yes there's only two non-power units for each race and I see what, but I think you're focusing on a time-scale that is too narrow. If you look at the bigger picture, the early part of the game is much longer and reactive/adaptive play becomes important, reducing the importance of the initial build. I suppose this is compounded by also having less to choose from, but overall I think this is a good thing as I don't think too much advantage should rely on an blind opening gambit (i.e. the initial build order) - though of course it should still be relevant to some degree.
As for balance: I find a decent marine player impossible to deal with as Eldar - the Tacs out shoot me, the ASMs out melee me (which surprised me), and the AV trounces me too - but I suck so that's neither here nor there I suppose.
"Life is not full of successes, it is full of failures from which we learn" - Tony Benn
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#33
Thank god it's over!
No, I don't prefer 1.3.2 over 1.4.2, but some rather unpleasant memories of an endless CoH public beta are stuck firmly somewhere in the back of my mind. Good to see some lessons learned by Relic, sticking to a fixed timeframe does have its benefits
I'd consider most changes and additions positively (especially the WorldBuilder and new replay/observer features), so I'll mention just a few issues to make things easier (for me
Tacs-Melee units relation, that's still tricky. The first patch made it too easy for melee, the second one too hard (and amplified this by making them almost immune to basic ranged). Probably less of an issue in 1v1, but team games with multiple SM make it possible to field a "critical mass" of Tacs very early. At this point, non-SM melee can be reliably wiped out in engagements, while Tacs still have plentiful opportunities to escape.
New Tyranid low-level critters. I mourn the loss of expendable swarms. Yes, few people used them in the past patches, but now it's not even possible anymore, since both Gaunts aren't expendable. And still, the same gameplay is as popular as ever. Less swarmy critters, more tough elite bugs (Raveners, Warriors).
Overall a step forward though. I hope some more of those steps will follow
One step closer to the end of the decadent Eldar race.
[...] the reason we don’t like DRM solutions is because they punish the innocent and they have to jump through all these hoops. We don’t want to do that [...]
Lol I just played a 3v3 in 1.4! It appears that you can cancel the downgrade and keep playin the beta.... not for long I guess
#35
This is also relevant vs the tech marine once his loleriffic 900% healing relay goes up.I really think this was more of a problem with the apothecary than with tactical blobs. I was usually able to combat tactical blobs with crafty use of suppression weapons. This would force the player to diversify their build some. The exception being when there was an apothecary constantly topping all his troops off with heals. Then the situation became much more difficult.
Chriss is that IG hater he wanted them to nerf everything about igs
Awesome patch!
It fixed my lag Problems completely!No Lags despite Ultra high settings!
As for balance..
I think Eldar are too weak since the patch.
Its hard to deal with Space Marines.
But anyway , good job relic!
#37
Definitely. At least the relay is stationary though. :\
arr no steam is updating DOW2 on it's own. i take it this is the downgrade to 1.3. that sucks
Solved..
Last edited by Susurrus; 20th Jul 09 at 10:05 AM.
#40
I'm still trying to work out if your post is serious.Thoughts?
Venom Broods are purely AV units in pre-patch beta.
All pure AV units have crap accuracy against infantry. I don't think they properly tuned the effects so that a miss looks properly like a miss with the VC, but it's likely a miss result, even if it looks like it hits, does no damage.
Overall, I think the beta was a big change, mostly for the better. I'm not sure I like the larger unit count, but I can deal with that as the rest of the game is better balanced.
There are some things at the end that were a problem, but that's what betas are for.
Chris: But entirely? Is there any other unit that actually does NO damage to an infantry unit? (this was the latest version of the beta..)..
It could be misses, but if it was, it was a crapton of them..
#43
Tankbustaz and the brightlance spring to mind.
Hmm, ok then. Obviously I've been out of the loop a long time (:-( @ tankbustas no longer doing damage)... Never mind. Just seems a lame way of balancing AV units.
Anyone going to play 1.3? Or everyone here is going to wait for 1.4 to properly introduce itself.
#46
I think most people (including myself) are going to wait for 1.4 proper. I'm going to take this as an opportunity to finally play through the singleplayer campaign.
#47
At this point I don't think you could pay me to play 1.3
Last edited by Chris; 20th Jul 09 at 3:06 PM.
I much so enjoyed the beta but unfortunately it still felt like a game of finding the most exploitable tactic and spamming the hell out of it (SM blobbing in the final patch state). There are still some other issues like relic nerfing the absolute shit out of rippers, if they hate them so much just remove them from the game, making them t3 carni only was a strong move and fair enough but then removing point cap ability makes them pointless. I can't find any use for the spore mine explosion now since relic seem to have removed ALL effects on retreating units whilst making melee super powered vs them. It's rather annoying to have lictor pullback removed or warp spider stopping, tbh players should have to take that into account when fighting them.
All that said. I really prefer it to 1.3 and probs won't play that much until 1.4 comes out proper.
#49
Tacs are going to be adjusted. There's no doubt in my mind something is going to happen to them. I pray to God it isn't a hard-cap solution.
Thing is, Tac blobs have always been there but the difference from 1.3 to 1.4 was that there was a common enemy in Nids' OP-ness that rallied everyone to smite that and the fact that there were other T1 units in 1.3 that were effective for cost that aren't in 1.4 (HB Dev and ASM). Basically, there were more ways to spend Req for SM in 1.3 and ASM were cost-effective in the 1.3 world. Tac blobs were/are still effective but there were other avenues to shunt resources.
It also doesn't help that the Apoth is very popular now. I will stand by my opinion that he is not OP, he just covers many of the inherent weaknesses of SM, such as early vulnerability to melee. The difference between killing a Slugga Squad with 2 Tac losses vs. no losses is huge early, as is forcing a retreat from Banshees rather than the other way around.
We'll probably see a patch log sometime this week or next and I'm sure some fairly significant changes be in there that smooths some of this out. Of course, balance is still a work in progress.
#50
Cool kids are still playing the beta.
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