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Homeworld 2: Mothership Warfare

  1. #1

    Homeworld 2: Mothership Warfare



    At last, I am proud to present my own contribution to the
    arena of Homeworld 2 Modding... Mothership Warfare.


    You can download it from here:

    Mothership Warfare Mod

    Or from Moddb:

    Moddb Page


    Let me explain how it works...


    The Setting:


    Welcome to the New Frontier.

    The sky is on fire. Great fleets clash and starships burst. Nebulae sparkle and dust clouds burn. Space is thick with debris; remnants of the fallen.

    The Hiigarans are fighting the Vaygr. The Vaygr are fighting the Hiigarans. Everyone is fighting themselves.

    And you are caught in the middle.

    For years, this patch of night has been cut off from civilization. Anarchy reigns supreme; alliances form and break with every hour. Tiny drones besiege great Battlecruisers, and plain old bullets strip Ion Turrets bare. Through the Graveyards of Karos to the Wastes of Talros, through the Darkness and back again... you will have to fight. In the turbulence of the New Frontier, where the allies of today are the enemies of tomorrow, you will find that every battle is different.

    Choose your side. Choose your tribe.

    This is the age of Mothership Warfare.



    The Mod:



    The Mothership Warfare Mod is a simple Homeworld 2 Deathmatch modification with an equally simple goal:

    To make Deathmatches unpredictable.

    A MW Deathmatch starts like any ordinary Homeworld 2 Deathmatch, albeit with a number of extra ships to choose from. However, once you get to the stage of building Shipyards (secondary construction facilities), a new level of choice opens up. You will be presented with the opportunity of hiring from one of the four or five Frontier Factions; whichever side you choose will grant you additional build options. Each Faction has its merits and drawbacks, and your choice will greatly affect the outcome of the match. More importantly, your enemies will be making a similar decision. If you can guess their actions ahead of time, you might tailor your choices appropriately... if not, you'll just have to resign yourself to a surprise.

    And then you can play another Deathmatch, and choose something completely different. And your enemies will do the same, and you just might be surprised again.

    So, what would you prefer? The brains of Chimera Labs, or the brawn of a Pride Mothership? The sheer power of Ion weaponry, or a swarming rush of Microships? Ancient Progenitor technology? Or dalliance with the Dead. Ah yes, the Dead. I'll leave you to discover them on your own. You'll have to fight them, sooner or later. When you do, don't let them touch you.

    And that, in a nutshell, is what it's all about. Choose a side. Choose a tribe. Good luck.

    BEFORE PLAYING, REMEMBER TO DE-ACTIVATE 'NLIPS' ON YOUR IN-GAME OPTIONS MENU. Otherwise, big ships look really big.


    Additional Features:

    The Mothership Warfare also comes with:

    43 new maps, divided into eight environments.

    37 new ships.

    New background music... or rather, old background music. You'll hear the soundtracks of the original Homeworld and Cataclysm, as well as some public domain classical music courtesy of Gustav Holst and his Planets Suite.

    New level backdrops.

    Resourcable wreckage.

    Megaliths which really mean MEGA.

    Complete Historical and Technical briefings for both Hiigaran and Vaygr cultures. They come free with the mod, but can also be found here.

    And, of course, some shiny new badges.

    And finally, why not head over to www.mothershipwarfare.350.com? I set this little mini-website up so that players could quickly get to grips with all the new ships that the MW mod features. You'll find tech indexes for both races, telling you what your options will be come your first deathmatch.



    And here are some pretty pictures...

    Click for Pretty Pictures




    One more thing...

    May items of donated and/or community resource have gone into this mod. There is an exhaustive list of people to thank. If you've enjoyed the mod, please take a moment to glance over the MW Credits to see exactly who is responsible for what.

    Special thanks to The Complex Team and the guys over at HW @ . Go check them out... after you're done with MW, of course.


    Feedback is welcome. Let me know how it plays, guys!
    Last edited by Bentusi_Core; 18th Aug 09 at 6:31 PM.

  2. #2
    Member ajlsunrise's Avatar
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    one word of advice. change the way your first post is set up, It's really annoying to have to scroll to the side for five minutes just to see all the pictures... other than that... I'll let you know.

  3. #3
    I keep getting a crc error when I try to extract the .big file, so... can't run the mod without the .big file.
    Co-founder of Homeworld:@
    Open to new members

  4. #4
    That's weird... it seems like the Filefront upload somehow damaged the download. I've replaced it with a new file and it seems to be working fine- the main link at the top has been repaired, but just in case here it is again:

    Mothership Warfare Zip

    And just to be on the safe side, here's a link to the plain .Big file:

    Mothership Warfare .Big


    Let me know if it's working right...

  5. #5
    Member MelvinVM's Avatar
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    *MelvinVM uses mothership upgrade & hyperspace rush*

    Maybe turn those down a bit, I won several matches like this.

  6. #6
    *MelvinVM uses mothership upgrade & hyperspace rush*

    Maybe turn those down a bit, I won several matches like this.

    Hmmm, will look into doing that. What setting was the AI on, and what ships did it choose?

    Also, you mean you used a Ship of the Pride, right? 'Cause the other main Mothership is supposed to be ridiculously expensive to hyperspace.

  7. #7
    Member ajlsunrise's Avatar
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    to reiterate myself, press enter after each [/img] tag

  8. #8
    to reiterate myself, press enter after each [/img] tag
    Um, I already did. Should I do it again?

    It's really annoying to have to scroll to the side for five minutes just to see all the pictures...
    Sorry, I just noticed this bit... you have to scroll to the side? Does anyone else? Becuase on my monitor everything fits the screen fine. But you know what monitors are like.

  9. #9
    Member MatthCoFreak's Avatar
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    I don't have problem with side scrolling, all pictures are one under the other. What browser are you running with, ajlsunrise ?

    Oh and I started to read the backstory, and I'm quite impressed with the amount of detail given. Good job BC
    Last edited by MatthCoFreak; 16th Aug 09 at 10:25 AM.
    Lead developer of the Homeworld: Blue Planet TC.
    Member of The Apocalypse Project TC for Freespace 2.
    To all newbies : remember to use S110's clean data.
    Latest version of CFHodEd.

  10. #10
    Member MelvinVM's Avatar
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    I mainly find the text layout annoying, to be fair, all that stuff in the middle.

  11. #11
    Oh and I started to read the backstory, and I'm quite impressed with teh amount of detail given. Good job BC
    Thanks!

    I mainly find the text layout annoying, to be fair, all that stuff in the middle.
    I just tried moving it all to the left or to the centre. It looked really dopey. Ah, well.

  12. #12
    Preliminary bug report: Unplayable with NLIPS activated, some ships are scaled up enough at range to fill the whole map.

    Further: Chimera Station seems to be mostly lacking a death event
    Last edited by Siber; 16th Aug 09 at 12:23 PM.

  13. #13
    Further thoughts: Interesting so far, though I've only played a little of it. A lot of the maps seem to start you far from resources, which is sorta annoying. I quite like the use of derelicts as resource points on some maps. A suggestion: If you modify the glowmaps on the derelict ships to kill all their windows, it may create an interesting effect. Either way, its an idea we may have to poach.

    You've done an admirable job integrating the ships at your disposal into the universe your working with, but some things strike me as odd. Perhaps unsurprisingly my attention gravitated to the Somtaaw.

    (side note for bugreport: The Dervish seems to be missing gunfire sounds)

    In particular, I'd recommend trying to come up with new names instead of recycling the old Somtaaw ship names. The HW@ Valiants and HWC Acolytes are both fighters, but that's about where the similarity ends. Certainly its believable that over 100 years that sort of design evolution could have happened, but keeping the same name seems odd. On the other hand it is true that names get reused by militaries over time, but with it happening on both the Dervish and Acolyte, it seems somewhat strained. I'd suggest rifling through some religious terms and picking out some new ones.

    Other side note... I was quite surprised at the use of the Recon model, considering its not even textured. Is it even in the build menu in 0.0.4.0?

    Anyway, some pretty good stuff. I hope to have more feedback for you later after I play some more.

  14. #14
    A lot of the maps seem to start you far from resources, which is sorta annoying. I quite like the use of derelicts as resource points on some maps. A suggestion: If you modify the glowmaps on the derelict ships to kill all their windows, it may create an interesting effect. Either way, its an idea we may have to poach.
    Will have to try that. Yes, some maps do screw you over a little bit... there's always the 'random start' button. Mainly it's because editing maps with notepad is surprisingly difficult when you're rubbish with co-ordinates. In a few cases it's intentional, though, to give any CPU players the chance to not behave stupidly.

    Feel free to take what you need; anything I've made for this Mod is public domain.


    Other side note... I was quite surprised at the use of the Recon model, considering its not even textured. Is it even in the build menu in 0.0.4.0?
    It's not textured? Really? I've played with it a couple of times; I thought it just had a purposefully 'organic' looking hull. I might've been misled by its weird shape. No, I don't think it is on the build menu... I found in the data folder.

    You've done an admirable job integrating the ships at your disposal into the universe your working with, but some things strike me as odd. Perhaps unsurprisingly my attention gravitated to the Somtaaw.

    (side note for bugreport: The Dervish seems to be missing gunfire sounds)
    The second point I thought I fixed... none of the ships originally had gunfire sounds, but I added quite a few. Dervish must've slipped through.

    I actually like the MW Somtaaw... their fleet is supposed to look like it's been mashed together from all sorts of different designs. I think this is mentioned (though not dwelt upon) in some of the background material, or else on the website. The new Acolyte isn't even remotely the same ship as the old one. My thoughts were that since the economic collapse of around 59AHL (explained in the backstory), the Somtaaw haven't really had access to the same tech-levels as they used to. Most of their ships nowadays are plugged together from old or obsolete technology. The reason I chose the HW@ designs for them was because of the visible elements of HW1 Kushan and Taiidan- especially in the Interceptor model. The MW Acolyte is a kitbash of leftover parts from this era, so its not so much a design evolution as a throwback. It's actually a cross between Republican Taiidan stock leftover from the first war and second-generation Hiigaran Interceptors. They share the same name, because the Somtaaw are said in... I think it's the HW1 manual... to be traditionalists. They enjoy the link to their past, especially since they don't have the old Acolytes anymore (expensive to produce). Also, I wanted to keep it as a nod.

    You may have a point as to the 'Dervish's' name. I wasn't going to call it that, until I saw it spinning around on the battlefield firing pulsar blasts. It struck me as looking quite similar to the old Multibeam frigates. I figure, if I noticed the similarities, so would Somtaaw engineers.

    Preliminary bug report: Unplayable with NLIPS activated, some ships are scaled up enough at range to fill the whole map.
    Do you know, I forgot you could even play the game with NLIPS on anymore.

    Further: Chimera Station seems to be mostly lacking a death event
    Damn it. I just realised that I accidentally copied over the Chimera Death .Events from Complex- which doesn't, for some reason, blow up. I had a perfectly good death event of my own scripted, too.

    Thanks, Siber! Look forward to hearing more. Clearly, no matter how many bugs you get, there are always extra.
    Last edited by Bentusi_Core; 16th Aug 09 at 3:56 PM.

  15. #15
    It's not textured? Really? I've played with it a couple of times; I thought it just had a purposefully 'organic' looking hull. I might've been misled by its weird shape. No, I don't think it is on the build menu... I found in the data folder.
    Nah, its still using the original scout texture, and doesn't really even have a finished mesh. It needs review, refinement, unwrapping, and ultimately textured, which is one reason why it wasn't in the build list. Still, I suppose you needn't let that stop you from using it as is if you like it that way.

  16. #16
    I'm totally playing this when I get to college and have fast enough internet to download it!

    This question will seem random, perhaps, but I'm really curious how you got the "beast-patches" for that Vaygr Carrier in your screenshots. For no special reason I myself have tried to acquire some beast-patch-ness but been unable to.

  17. #17
    This question will seem random, perhaps, but I'm really curious how you got the "beast-patches" for that Vaygr Carrier in your screenshots. For no special reason I myself have tried to acquire some beast-patch-ness but been unable to.
    Moleman2009 made all of his Beast Evolution mod public awhile back. If you have a .Big decompiler, you can get at the ships and extract their Beastly textures. Although I think I used the carrier wholesale.

  18. #18
    Member MatthCoFreak's Avatar
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    Could you please rehost the .big, if possible somewhere else than filefront ? Somehow it just refresh the page and won't even propose me to download it (and I tried the .zip too).

  19. #19
    Could you please rehost the .big, if possible somewhere else than filefront ? Somehow it just refresh the page and won't even propose me to download it (and I tried the .zip too).
    The filefront link seems to be working fine for me. Did you try to alternate Moddb link, as well?

    If that still doesn't work, try this:


    DOWNLOAD MOTHERSHIP WARFARE FROM WIKIUPLOAD

  20. #20
    Member MatthCoFreak's Avatar
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    Thanks, much better this way. DLing now. It seems I can't DL from filefront since the last update of Firefox, but I can't swear it.

  21. #21
    Member ajlsunrise's Avatar
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    i'm using IE.

    looking at the source code for your first post i get this:
    PHP Code:
    [img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/ss00101.jpg[/img][img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/ss00014_(2).jpg[/img][img]http://www.imageshack2.350.com/ss00185.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/mwsc10.jpg[/img][img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/MWSC11.jpg[/img][img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/mwsc3.jpg[/img][img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/ss00001_(4).jpg[/img][img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/ss00007_(3).jpg[/img][img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/ss00007_(4).jpg[/img][img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/ss00019_(2).jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/ss00026-1.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/ss00139.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack.350.com/ss00178.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack.350.com/ss00199.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack.350.com/ss00195.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack.350.com/ss00231.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/ss00121.jpg[/img] 
    so just copy this, and paste:
    PHP Code:
    [img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/ss00101.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/ss00014_(2).jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack2.350.com/ss00185.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/mwsc10.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/MWSC11.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/mwsc3.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/ss00001_(4).jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/ss00007_(3).jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/ss00007_(4).jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/ss00019_(2).jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/ss00026-1.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/ss00139.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack.350.com/ss00178.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack.350.com/ss00199.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack.350.com/ss00195.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack.350.com/ss00231.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.imageshack3.350.com/ss00121.jpg[/img] 
    sorry for the funky coloring, i had to wrap it in [php] tags so it wouldn't show the images...


    [edit]
    this is what it looks like at 15%:
    Last edited by ajlsunrise; 17th Aug 09 at 7:39 AM.

  22. #22
    Member MatthCoFreak's Avatar
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    i'm using IE.
    And you didn't suicide yet ?

  23. #23
    Member ajlsunrise's Avatar
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    my computer lags WAAAAAAAAAY too much if i try using other browsers... so, rather everything ELSE caused me to suicide....

  24. #24
    Aiet, gave it another run... music looping is slightly broken, often times it loops in the middle of building up, which is pretty jarring. Something else I noticed was I was getting constant 'resource collector is under attack' messages durring a battle even though I couldn't find any that were. I suspect it may have gotten confused and is considering a combat craft resourcers? I was using Strikers, Skyrows, and Infiltrators, if that helps any. A third sound related point, did you change the fire sound on the Vaygr BC main gun? I don't remember it sounding like that, but it has been a while.

    The Trader units seem to be lacking interface icons, which is bothersome

    A couple design/balance points: The Striker seems to have entirely fixed weapons, which is odd with quite visible turrets. If this is intentional I'd recomend stripping off the turret meshes and just using the fixed forward gun barrels, though the empty pads might look a bid odd. Still, I'd find it preferable to having the completely inoperative rear turret hanging there.

    Finally, from a game balance perspective, Cradles seem too good at killing small craft in particular. I've nothing wrong with a hardy mothership, but it seems as if fighters, corvettes, and frigates are pretty much all superfluous in a Cradle assault, or even a complete waste, as its guns will make short work of them. It'd be nice if battlecruisers weren't an absolute must to end every game. Still, I've only played a handful of games, so maybe there are more tactics to be discovered.

    On the plus side, the new maps are quite refreshing, those I've played encourage a verticality and spreading of forces that HW2 generally doesn't, and your musical taste is admirable.

  25. #25
    Aiet, gave it another run... music looping is slightly broken, often times it loops in the middle of building up, which is pretty jarring.
    Ah, so this is universal? Unfortunately I can't fix this, because my HW2 Music.big, or something involved there anyhow, is corrupted... so even normal HW2 music plays in a strange way, often devolving into static during a match. I had noticed a looping problem, but I'd attributed it to this. Is there any way to control looping lengths? There's no command for it in the individual sound .luas.

    A third sound related point, did you change the fire sound on the Vaygr BC main gun?
    Nope.

    Something else I noticed was I was getting constant 'resource collector is under attack' messages durring a battle even though I couldn't find any that were. I suspect it may have gotten confused and is considering a combat craft resourcers? I was using Strikers, Skyrows, and Infiltrators, if that helps any.
    I have no idea why this would be. None of these craft are classified as utility. I haven't reclassified anything as a resource collector.

    The Trader units seem to be lacking interface icons, which is bothersome
    On purpose-through pragmatism. There's no reason they'd share any of the other two fleet's ship chevrons, and I didn't have any replacements handy.

    A couple design/balance points: The Striker seems to have entirely fixed weapons, which is odd with quite visible turrets.
    That's odd... I'm sure I've seen those turrets move in combat. I changed the weapon effect, but not the weaponfire itself.


    Finally, from a game balance perspective, Cradles seem too good at killing small craft in particular. I've nothing wrong with a hardy mothership, but it seems as if fighters, corvettes, and frigates are pretty much all superfluous in a Cradle assault, or even a complete waste, as its guns will make short work of them.
    The idea is that Cradles are your AA guns... I figure that given all the extra hit-points, Cradles aren't going to be practically killable by strike-craft anyway. But strike-craft can still kill frigates and gut battlecruisers, destroy resourcing operations and cripple carriers (although the Hiigs have an advantage there). So they're still important, but it's just if you want to fight with a Mothership, you need something of comparable class. By the way, Hiigaran Motherships are still quite vulnerable to Corvette swarms, especially reinforced bio-corvettes. And Elite Bombers are okay against Vaygr missile barrages, because their hulls regenerate. Though don't get me wrong, you're right about Cradles stomping on strike craft. That's their thing now. They're like the queen in chess.

    Ion and Heavy Missile Frigates can cause headaches for Motherships, if there are a lot of them- MS fire can only deal with one or two frigate class ships at a time, and to do that thet have to focus fire, which diverts the AA guns and exposes subsystems to bomber attacks.

    This is a bit different for the Vaygr. Heavy Shrikes will die straight away when fighting a Cradle, but they can do a fair bit of damage first. And three squads of them will kill a carrier in one. And God Shrikes can kill everything.

    Still, I've only played a handful of games, so maybe there are more tactics to be discovered.
    I hope so... one thing about the MW mod, I've tried to dial down the strict Rock-Paper-Scissors dynamic. Hopefully, this'll make thing a bit more reliant on imaginative tactics.
    Last edited by Bentusi_Core; 17th Aug 09 at 5:44 PM.

  26. #26
    Member MatthCoFreak's Avatar
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    I changed the weapon effect, but not the weaponfire itself.
    I'm not sure of what you mean here. Whether the weapon is considered as an animated turret or not is determined by the .wepn, not by the weaponfire .wf.

    Hum, did you received my PM ?

  27. #27
    I'm not sure of what you mean here. Whether the weapon is considered as an animated turret or not is determined by the .wepn, not by the weaponfire .wf.
    Sorry, I meant that I changed the effect the weapon has (i.e. the amount of damage dealt) but not the FX used by the weapon. At least, as far as I remember.


    Also, PM received and replied to.

  28. #28
    Member MatthCoFreak's Avatar
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    Bug report :

    Any player on the 4th, 5th or 6th start position of the (6P) 1b) The LowYards map will automatically die.

  29. #29
    Any player on the 4th, 5th or 6th start position of the (6P) 1b) The LowYards map will automatically die.
    Stupid Missionboy...

  30. #30
    Member MatthCoFreak's Avatar
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    Hum, There is only one start location in (6p) 2a) The New Frontier. All six players start at the same place and I've always one or two MS colliding each other at the beginning of the game.

    Edit : is the lone gunship in 2c) Gateway an easter egg or anything else ?
    Is the total lack of resources in 3c) In the Long Run intended ?

    Yes, I'm running each map one by one ^^

    4a) Stonefalls, isn't there a little too much asteroids ? I've 4Go RAM and I can't possibly run it smoothly.

    6b) Written in the Sand : LOL

    Finished !

    Great mod, and great maps I'll continue to test.
    Last edited by MatthCoFreak; 18th Aug 09 at 6:31 AM.

  31. #31
    Hum, There is only one start location in (6p) 2a) The New Frontier. All six players start at the same place and I've always one or two MS colliding each other at the beginning of the game.
    That's completely intentional. See 'Unfair starts' in the Gameplay guide. There are only two maps like this in the whole mod, but the idea is to completely screw the player over from the get go, force them to think on their feet. Unpleasant surprises. The level's not called Welcome to the New Frontier for nothin'...

    If that's not to your taste, you can always enable 'random start points.' Of course, then you risk jumping into the middle of a derelict...

    Edit : is the lone gunship in 2c) Gateway an easter egg or anything else ?
    Yep, Easter Egg. Also, try playing Cathedral of the Dead. The best easter egg is there. Well, there also might be a literal egg amongst the salvage on the Welcome to the New Frontier mission, but I was never able to find it to confirm. If anyone sees it, please post a screenshot.

    4a) Stonefalls, isn't there a little too much asteroids ? I've 4Go RAM and I can't possibly run it smoothly.
    Wow. I knew there were a lot of asteroids (there's a warning on the level-start), but I didn't think it'd slow down a 4Gig computer.

    Great mod, and great maps I'll continue to test.
    Thanks! Have fun!

    Oh, anybody fought the Dead yet?
    Last edited by Bentusi_Core; 18th Aug 09 at 8:17 AM.

  32. #32
    Member MatthCoFreak's Avatar
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    If that's not to your taste, you can always enable 'random start points.' Of course, then you risk jumping into the middle of a derelict...
    Are you sure this option works ? It seems to only circle through existing starting points, so all players still jump at the same place... Should try again though.

    Also, try playing Cathedral of the Dead. The best easter egg is there.
    I think I saw it too. I've seen it's salvageable like in the HW2 campaign, does it do anything if you salvage it ?

    Wow. I knew there were a lot of asteroids (there's a warning on the level-start), but I didn't think it'd slow down a 4Gig computer.
    It may come from my crappy graphic card too. This is the only level that caused me problem though.

    Oh, anybody fought the Dead yet?
    You mean the bunch of dark derelict with missile frigates and the huge twin engine thingy coming from Kharam Derelict ? Yes, I saw them spawning in the middle of the first map, but the AI destroyed them before I could reach them. Do they fight at all ?

  33. #33
    I think I saw it too. I've seen it's salvageable like in the HW2 campaign, does it do anything if you salvage it ?
    'Fraid not. Wanted to make it usable, but Megaliths can't be given the ability to move. Otherwise they automatically gravitate toward a certain orientation, so you can't have them drifting at unusual angles. You can salvage it, but it just sits there.

    Wait, hold on. HW2 campaign? Are we talking about the same thing? This easter egg was in a couple of campaigns, but not that one...

    You mean the bunch of dark derelict with missile frigates and the huge twin engine thingy coming from Kharam Derelict ? Yes, I saw them spawning in the middle of the first map, but the AI destroyed them before I could reach them. Do they fight at all ?
    Sort of. The Dead have a very specific, quite tricky series of tactics that they rely on. It requires a lot of money, but if it works it's basically unstoppable. It won't so much kill you as make it very, very hard for your fleet to win. You'll see if you play against them with lots of resources.

    It's a good idea to kill them as soon as you see them, which is obviously what the other AI did. If you leave them for long enough to build up... well, you'll probably see eventually.

    (You can play as the Dead, too, but you won't know how to use them until you've fought them properly).

  34. #34
    First of all, I wish to compliment you on a very, very fine mod.

    Some small remarks, though:

    - Microships are unable to jump using hyperspace gate platforms. Is this intentional?

    Regarding The Dead (put in spoiler tags because I don't know how much you want to keep a secret):

    The Dead



    Please don't hurt me for saying all of that...

    By the way, the music during the ice level is absolutely beautiful. Could you please tell me who made it and what it's called?
    Last edited by Lovecrafter; 18th Aug 09 at 12:17 PM.

  35. #35
    Don't worry, I won't hurt you...

    - Microships are unable to jump using hyperspace gate platforms. Is this intentional?
    Yes, unfortunately. When I tried to give probes hyperjuming capability, the game would crash whenever they jumped. I have no idea why, though, and I'm looking into the problem. Meantime, I took out that ability to stop problems.

    Now, as for the Dead... the thing about them is, I wanted them to be a little bit of a puzzle. To use them right, you've got to watch the CPU and build them for yourselves, and then do a decent amount of guessing. But, just so that I can answer a few of Lovecrafter's points, here are some spoilers. Don't press if you think you can work out the puzzle for yourselves...

    Secrets of the Dead



    Also, in the player info, I can clearly see the unit caps for them, but you appareenty want them invisible? And what's with the bottom cap of (I believe) 2? I haven't found anything that makes it go up.
    Player Info? Where's that?

    Oh wait. I vaguely remember there being a thing that displays... uh, is it fleet composition? Damn. I totally forgot that display would need editing. I think the '2' is probably the number of Frigate Points/Angel Barracks you can have. The Vaygr can't build them.

    By the way, the music during the ice level is absolutely beautiful. Could you please tell me who made it and what it's called?
    It's by Heitor Villalobos, but I'm afraid I seem to have lost the track name...
    Last edited by Bentusi_Core; 18th Aug 09 at 12:35 PM.

  36. #36
    Wow, I never would've thought... That is impressive. If you really think you need to drop more hints, how about using the "function" line (or was it called "role"?) under the ship's name and write something obscure there. Thanks for the info!

  37. #37
    Hey Siber, appropos of this point:

    Something else I noticed was I was getting constant 'resource collector is under attack' messages durring a battle even though I couldn't find any that were. I suspect it may have gotten confused and is considering a combat craft resourcers? I was using Strikers, Skyrows, and Infiltrators, if that helps any.
    Thanks to a conversation with John Galt, I think I've worked this out. There are a couple of maps that take place inside huge dust clouds; sometimes the clouds are dense, sometimes they're virtually invisible. They will show up on the sensors manager when they ignite in the presence of energy weapons/explosions. They'll also cause minute damage to everything in the sector, much as a smaller dust cloud causes minute damage to everything in its reach.

    I've just checked this out and it turns out that Resource Collectors seem to be really sensative to Dust Cloud ingitions; they register it as an attack and don't shut up about it until you move them somewhere less highly charged. Lower strike-craft chatter frequency does silence them a bit, though.

    Anyway. Just to say, that's that mystery solved. It wasn't so much a bug as the RCs being oversensative and wimpy. Just so I can be sure, do you remember what map you were playing on?

  38. #38
    Heh. I don't recall the name, but it was one inside a giant dust cloud, and there were ions involved. That's probably it.

  39. #39
    Very good mod, I like it. The mysterious setting of the dead is really interesting. The first time I read the part of the dead in the vaygr historical briefing my only thought was that I wanted to hear more about it. For that I think a single-player campaign would be really cool.

    But I have a question: If I understood some of the previous posts right on some maps there spawn dead ships that attack all players for example from the dead gate?
    Or were they built by AI players?

    EDIT: I think I found a bug: Everytime I play a 1vs1 skirmish game against the AI (Standard Difficulty, Starting Resources: Under Funded, Race: Me and AI Vaygr) the AI is doing some crazy things. It builds maybe 10 mins normal, but then when the AI has built a Capital Ships facility it moves with it's Mothership straight to my location and attacks me with it's Mothership and some Destroyers. I have never seen the AI building a Shipyard and choosing one of the Second Tiers. I tested it several times with the same settings at different maps. Only in one 2vs2 game the AI's have build Shipyards and choosed Second. In Homeworld 2 Vanilla I've never seen the AI doing something like that (and the gameplay for the AI is exactly the same as in Vanilla Homeworld 2).
    Last edited by Doomgiver; 28th Aug 09 at 6:49 AM.

  40. #40
    That's troubling, but I think it might have something to do with the AI and the money. I've only ever playtested against AIs set to 'HARD' and 'EXPERT' -they always build from the second tier, generally quite quickly. However, the second tier only kicks in once shipyards are available. If the AI doesn't have much money and is only set to standard, then it won't bother trying to build all the way up to shipyards- it'll just rush your Mothership with its own.

    I think this is a variant of the fact that in Vanilla HW2, the AI on lower difficulties takes longer to build shipyards. Here, for some inexplicable reason, it gets to a certain point and thinks: 'Hey, why should I bother building a shipyard when I don't have very much money but I do have this great big Mothership?'

    I'm not certain, though. Changing the HW2 AI can have very unpredictable effects. It took days to get the AI to do anything at all with even the slightest code change! Of course, that might be because I'm not very good with AI... it really needs a specialist programmer, if there are any out there.

    I've definitely seen the AI build from the second tier, though- but not in a 1 vs 1 game. Hmm. Let me know if other settings have similar problems.

    But I have a question: If I understood some of the previous posts right on some maps there spawn dead ships that attack all players for example from the dead gate?
    Or were they built by AI players?
    The Dead are built by AI players. They're a second tier option.

    And as for a campaign... well, I have some idle thoughts in that area.

  41. #41
    Ok I will play from now on at hard difficulty. The complex mod has the same problem that an AI on difficulty standard is doing nothing or crazy things. Maybe it's a generally problem with Homeworld 2 modding. But if it works proper on hard or expert it is no serious one.

    I will do some more testgames. Maybe you can do some testgames in 1vs1 games, too.

  42. #42
    I played two 1vs1 games against a hard AI at the map Jadeth with starting resources set to Wealthy. In the first match the AI was Vaygr and in the second match the AI was Hiigarian. In both the AI built lots of frigates and destroyers and attacked me. But everytime the AI attacked with it's Mothership, but it hasn't built a shipyard.
    But if I play a match on 2vs2 the AI really works perfectly.

    Maybe you can ask Beghins from the complex mod what coding at the AI to do for fixing this bug.
    Last edited by Doomgiver; 30th Aug 09 at 9:24 AM.

  43. #43
    Member MatthCoFreak's Avatar
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    Who don't play in Expert anyway ?

  44. #44
    Member Purple's Avatar
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    I actualy dug up my old HW2 CD when I saw this so I need to know, does this mod require any patch to work or will it work on what ever version?
    ku, ku, ku.

  45. #45
    Member MatthCoFreak's Avatar
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    Most mods require the 1.1 patch, I guess this one too, but you won't have any problem to find it anyway.

  46. #46
    Member Purple's Avatar
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    Where do I find this patch? I have tried but the game can't find the update server and all the downloads I got from googling it are pay to download sites...

  47. #47
    Doomgiver

    Maybe you can ask Beghins from the complex mod what coding at the AI to do for fixing this bug.
    I appreciate the suggestion, but something tells me the Complex team are rather busy with, well, Complex. AI coding for Homeworld 2 is pretty tetchy- I don't like poking it with a stick unless I have to.

    I've been playing some matches of various combination- sometimes the results are as you describe, sometimes not. If the money level is above 'rich,' then you WILL get AI shipyards, though. Otherwise, just have a spare AI player set to 'easy.' 2 vs 1 also seems to work out fine.

    I do tend to play on Expert all the time myself. I just wasn't such a damn cheat.

    Purple

    Where do I find this patch? I have tried but the game can't find the update server and all the downloads I got from googling it are pay to download sites...

    Try here:

    1.1 Patch

  48. #48
    Member Purple's Avatar
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    I am having problems with installing this.
    I fallowed the instructions to the letter, copied the file "MothershipWarfare.big" into my HW2 folder (D:\Program Files\Sierra\Homeworld2) and I patched the game beforehand.
    But when I make a shortcut by your instructions all I keep getting is this:

  49. #49
    Member MatthCoFreak's Avatar
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    Make sure that in your properties window, the -mod blahblah part is after the closing " you have after Homeworld2.exe.

  50. #50
    Member Purple's Avatar
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    Thank you, that is it.
    The PDF said nothing about it. It should realy be updated.

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