R.I.P. Rad | R.I.P. Loran | R.I.P. MrScruff
First off let me thank DMz here for taking the bull by the horns.
I will also say that much of this is my fault as much of the design of 2.0 depends on new models - without them the balance can be way off.
The only debate that I am having right now, as DMz's idea is a good one, is what to do with models currently coded in game, animated, etc... with no skin and no skin on the horizon either. The list is long - possibly longer than what DMz realizes. The two mentioned as an example do not have a coded model in yet and we will get a texture in the future. It's the others ( maybe 10 - 15 ) that are swimming in my mind. We have many models coded and important, that are working but have no skin (all one or two colors). I suppose I could just sub in a similar model, but which is better - correct model with no skin, or sub model with skin?
RIP Loran Korn - a dear friend and as amazing a person as he was talented
RIP MrScruff - you were a true friend and a true talent
Normandy 44 : European Theater - Project Leader
N44 ModDB Site
N44 : ET Website - N44 XFire Community - N44 Guide
CoH Mods - Waffen Mod
Eastern Front - AI Coder/Asst Coder
@ huetti07: Yes I saw those but they seem to be too small and low res for me to see clearly.
@ above: i believe that a sub model with skins will at least be more pleasant to watch.
@Sweeten, i have no easy quick fire solution, all i can say is we will try. And i suspect we will use the substitute models.
And your supposed to be having a break so stop trawling forums and worrying about things that dont really matter .
@DMz - Would my idea be easier to implement? Im talking Making Allied units green and Axis ones their respective Grey metallic color, no markings required. It would be easier on the eyes, AND it would take the point out of substituting.
Really you'd only need two colors for the Vehicles, the Track color than the respective color for the tanks.
Again, just babbling on here.
I'd rather have all the Models in with very quickly made skins, that aren't so good and have them slowly have the skins updated than have everything substituted.
However since you guys are doing all the work here, whatever your choice or whatever seems like the better idea is the one you should go with.
I just hate seeing Bright pink/orange on the battlefield, tis all.
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"Torch Bearer" AKA Leader of European Theater: 1944 Modification (NEW THREAD)
IF we were to use "unskinned" models, they would be using single colors that make sense (green, grey, beige, etc...).I just hate seeing Bright pink/orange on the battlefield, tis all.
This SU-122 is a type (though not exact and the exact colors can easily be changed) of example
@Sweeten - Personally I can't stand those unskinned models, I'd rather wait for some quickly done skins that don't have markings or camos then have that. Thats just me though.
Lets just wait till we have them finished, that thing has no uvmap and is using a plain green lime texture, or colour off of max, if it just had a uv map assigned we could at least use a plain green steel texture stretched over it. Then at least it would look like it was made of metal, not marshmellows. But without a proper uvmap even that isnt an option atm.
Also the wheels and tracks could have theyre proper textures assigned on that, as it uses the east front wheels and tracks. If that were done along with the uv it would just be a case of changing the texture for a proper one at a later date, No recompile would be required and it could be done in model studio, or just dropped into the models model folder as a new rgt. The same would go for the gls spc nrm ocl, as long as they were assigned during this compile using blank dummy textures. Youd then be just 1 step away from a finished model. Also it takes me 5 minutes to assign an ocl and make it. Provide me with a list of models that dont have it, and i could do the lot. That again would be another obstical out of the way. Wrecks ive already made a half dozen plus of them for Lorans models plus all the wreck textures for them. I could if need be do the rest of those, Its time consuming but would again be another step in the right direction. As long as youd be willing to wait i see no reason why a proper release couldent be done, using a limited number of substitute models and adding the replacements to them in incraments. I really dont see what the all fired hurry is. This mod is quite adequate as 1.71 why rush it and ruin it bringing out a eysore version 2.0 .
Last edited by DMz; 8th Aug 10 at 10:56 AM.
@ Twitchy - I thought what I showed you there was what you were referring to as unskinned.
@ DMz - I am in no hurry - if you feel you both want to and can do textures - at least as stated with a map and the rest just short of "detailed texture" - that would be grand
That list I sent you in the PM more or less is the list of completed models (animated, etc...) without maps or textures. I suppose sending the "animated" version (attached to bones, etc...) would be best? If so, I guess I will have to get a package together (if Beef still has access to SVN the max files animated should be in a folder there called "animated" or something like that next to the "models hold" folder).
Ive got Beefy to agree to do uvmaps again on the scratch stuff like the m20 m30 and kubelwagon ect. he will do those for me, so at least we have a full time uvmapper again. but theres no time limit set.
He may dabble in animations aswell but im not pushing him. I will finish the BA64 texture and the su76 texture plus the long tom. Ill attempt to sort the last 5 of lorans models i have out and assign the maps to model mix texture ie pack 40 mixed with puma ect. P4 mixed with new pII bits ect. The elefant may cause me some work as i think i may need to remesh it ont a tiger mixem up skin.
There is no time limit on any of this, and there are no guarantees. I will do what i can with this lot, but it will take quite a few weeks.
@Tankdestroyer, if your still alive do you have a working version of the M8 scott,, we dont appear to have one :/ .If you do could i possibly have the thing thanks.
That all sounds great to me, DMz. More than great - super great
And believe me I would be a happier man if went the rest of my God given life never having to open max again, so if the combo of you/Beef/Eli are able to get things going models wise (no matter how long it takes) I would be more than happy (and need a much shorter break ) and appreciative. If I could just concentrate on Corsix and code again my modding life would be back to normal
As long as the placeholder skins are decent I say go with it. I trust your judgment.
Why don't you ask the EF team if you may use the SU-85 model, and then add the gun to it?
Have you guys worked out the bug with the 88 gun emplacement crash.
@ Celestial - We have the EF SU-85 and we could do that.
We have avoided too much mixing as the modelers (such as Loran Korn) have taken the time out to do entire models.
However, our issues finding ways to get "scratch skins" (skins for models not based on or using a Relic model uv map or EF for that matter) has created a situation where we may/will have to start. We of course would still need to skin/map the gun.
Unfortunately a lot of the models have already been animated (there are at least a dozen others like the SU-122 that are animated but skinless), so in essence they would have to now be re-done to use a mixed version.
@ Cap - if you are referring to the crash where the game crashes when you use an 88 emplacement that came with the map - no we have not.
well im used to play the mod with some barrel-less tanks because my rig cant suport the shader and model on high! so with a fairly decent skin in the new models i have no complaints against launching a alpha version with thease models! and i also aks for a favor! could you please fix the barrel-less tanks problem in this "alpha" version! just do a version were you can play with model and shader on low! and texture on medium and still be able to see te tank guns on the new models such Achilles,crommwell 95, churchill 95 and sherman 105!
@Sweeten, This is the best i could come up with at short notice, and it will be tight in there for the crew.
Ill Have the textures wreck and occlusion sorted some time tommorrow and it can go for animation then. Straight model mix with the puma.
Theres no room for more detail and besides the gun crew will drown the compartment anyway, so you wouldent see it.
Poly counts a couple of hundred higher then the default puma and thats with the mg42 on it.
Last edited by DMz; 9th Aug 10 at 7:05 AM. Reason: forgot to spoiler it
all i can say is that we eigher need midgets as the gun crew or people that dont take bullts very well (like the coaxal gunners )
the toppic of the skins, i would rather have substitutes rather than a plain green or gunmetal skin (if its plain and had enblams or markings as well as a few scratches to emphisise edges then i would possibly go for it, thing is it would be an eye sore and you wouldnt be able to see hatches ect, just add them with patches once you add the skins
i guess that those who want just a plain green or gray skin dont understand hwo this stuff works.
see,most of the details on vehicles go into skins and things like bumpmaps,because else the poly count would get to high on models,so just giving them plain green and gray will make them look like cartoon vehicles,since things like coating on vehicles wont be represented,and you will get bad models ingame.
Nice work, DMz.
@ Supa - I think most understand what it would look like. I know I do and TBH I would prefer the cartoony models rather than no models or very unsimilar subs (if it came right down to it).
It really comes down to what you play the mod, CoH, or even video games for for that matter. What percentage is for the graphics and what percentage for the gameplay? For me, video games in general are 90% gameplay and 10% graphics.
I wouldn't expect a company to release that way, no doubt, but basically some people would prefer new stuff, no matter how it looks, rather than no new stuff.
personally unless the uvmap is made and assigned compiling it is a waste of time and effot, because you just end up doing it all over again, once a uvmap has been made, and an occlusion channel added. As for the puma it has a skin and bumpmaps and details,plus a wreck, i dont do half jobs, i dislike them and think they are just plain lazy.
doubtful... what ever happened to 2.601
Okay here the Updated Sdkzf 234-3 with the uvmap\texture on the added parts, please note at the moment its the default puma colours im using. Georider has already told me hed be happy to skin it in a new scheme. Plus if i use default anyone wanting to recolour or reskin it knows what they are dealing with. Also only the new parts for the model mix are smoothed, as i thought it pointlless wasting my time smoothing the lower hull wheels and 8 drive wheels ect, if theyre not being used.
OK that looks absoluetly fabulous! Does it completely use the vanilla UV?
no the main part of the origional hull uses vanilla. the rest ,all the new parts use a little 512x texture i made up. i figured it would save problems and make it easier to compile.
in that respect its the same as the pioneer half track with one texture for all addons.
Editing again to add pic of texture soz.
Adding pic of the dead one
Last edited by DMz; 10th Aug 10 at 1:41 PM. Reason: meant to add another pic
The 234/3 is AWESOME!!
I searched a painting, but I see it already got.
(+ number plate)
Last edited by Thiky83; 10th Aug 10 at 12:41 PM. Reason: new pic
Oh i hope this won't require much stuff like the other one.
@Mr.SS- If you mean RAM wise, it still does.
Can i now assume we have people animating the following ??
M2 Halftrack (With Support\Command Version In State)
M5 Halftrack CMGC Quad\Support
M21 CMGC Mortar Half Track
Panther\Panzer IV Command Tank
If so can those doing them please post here to let me know whats what. The m21 m5 are mentioned again because the new versions have the ocl assigned and the m5 has the 50cal turret on the support version. (I also have a version of the allied 50 cal AA nest corectly smoothed with ocl assigned).
Also Does anyone want to do the Quad 50 Trailor (M55 quad trailer) Because i have a final version with ocl assigned emplaced and non emplaced.
Theres also a Flakpanzer 38(t)Gepard which will be finished skin ocl and wreck by tommorrow night if anyones intrested.
And within 5 days an sdkfz251/17 ausf C fully finished for animation. The latter 2 were asked of me as a favour so nothing to do with N44.
TD i still need to know if you have a working Scott m8, because it fills quite a few doctrine spots in N44.
No.... I dont have a working copy. It is exactly like the picture I show in BSS, unfinished.TD i still need to know if you have a working Scott m8, because it fills quite a few doctrine spots in N44.
Last edited by tankdestroyer; 11th Aug 10 at 11:19 AM.
Having a little problem. Love the mod so far, however, when I start Viereville the first paratrooper I try to call in as a reinforcement crashes as soon as the reinforcement is done loading. The blue fills up the icon, then crash to the desktop. But things other than that work fine. I have the latest patch and am using COmpany of Heroes, the first one. Not TOV or OF. Thanks guys
I can try to get the Sturmpanzer done this weekend, and would be willing to try and tackle the 234/3 during the same time frame.Originally Posted by DMz
I took a look at the M15 CGMC and it made my head hurt. That one may be a bit too advanced for me.
just was thinking, when i play i get annoyed when a M10, or a firefly or, achillies shoots and enemy tank in the arse and then the enemy tank turns to fire and kills my tank.. personally i think most shots that are fired at the ass of a tank should outright kill the enemy if not a deflection im just saying.
i mean a Sherman 75, or a Cromwell 75 or churchill 75 can take out a Panther Panzer 4 or a Tiger to its ass, panzer 4 and panther to the side armor.. panther i woudl expect deflections but im saying the side armor is thin and is quite killable from a 75 in one shot.
also i was just thinking a place holder perhaps but the Churchill VII had HEAVY armor just a bit under the jumbo and you can just make the current churchill the VII there isnt too many phycial changes ill look at it my self maybe a more flat turret and it was armed with a 75mm gun.
oh and a side question jsut question forgive me if i asked this before.. but i see some one has a M4A1 sherman, will there be a model of the M4A1 actually being worked on?
Last edited by Grizzly Bear; 11th Aug 10 at 4:29 PM.
@ Fren - mod is not compatible with campaign - just skirmish ATM
@ Everyone Helping - thanks a ton! I'm glad to see I can take a little break and see so many willing to help. It means a lot and I thank you all.
Actually the Churchill VII, and the Crocodile which was based off of it, had heavier armour than the Jumbo. The intention was to make it immune to 88mm L/56 guns, like the Tiger I E and FlaK36, and in practice it pretty much was in the front. Only 88mm L/70 guns and up could reliably punch through the front, with the rest having to maneuver for a flank shot at medium or close range. The first batch of Churchill VII tanks were pretty limited, so they usually ended up as company or platoon command tanks, with the other tanks being Churchill III, IV, or VI.Originally Posted by Grizzly Bear
@Eliwood, thank you, as for the M15 mgc i did say there was nothing left of the halftrack . the 234/3 and i believe the sas\para jeep, i already have being done so thats fine m8 thx.
@Sturmhaubitze so then why not add it in? take the croc's model and use that.. im not sure though if it has a more flat turret mantlet like it should but ill have to go see in game my self..
Don't ask me that, ask the guys making this mod. I was just commenting on the Jumbo / Churchill VII armour comparison.Originally Posted by Grizzly Bear
Though Relic didn't do anything to differentiate the Churchill IV from the Churchill Crocodile, other than add the fuel hose and tank at the back. A real Churchill VII or Crocodile has an OQF 75mm gun rather than the OQF 6 pounder gun of the III and IV models, in addition to the minor changes to the hull due to the thicker armour. And of course a real Crocodile has a fuel trailer, but that's not likely to happen.
play with the panzerIV\Panther command tank, thats a straight mix and would give you a quick release, if your eager to get a vehical out. every thing named Deletemeh, deletemeh_somemore ect, goes, everything else stays. The delete me parts are just there so it can be positioned right on the panthers hull, when mixing. But its up to you , you dont have to do any you dont want to. Plus you have your own work aswell,so dont go killing yourself.Originally Posted by eliw00d
Me and my mate are playing this and the blitzkrieg mod. And we have a few major issues with N'44.
Will this be fixed in 2.0?
a/ 5% bug - it's absurd at the moment compared to the competition who seemingly tackled it, almost a kill is not a kill
b/ what's with the allied artsy? who got the stings out of them yanks and brits? C'mon playing your mod gets irritating when a shell far and away takes a half of sherms life. And if you trying to bridge the real-deal with the engine do not make such a mess out of it - 2 priest cap, useless 57mm AT with cap and the king of the field railway gun (as far as I recon it was not used in normandy) and so on... It's far from reality and kills all the fun out of the game
c/ will you give allies they strenghts back - air and art support off map?
d/ will you tweak penetration/armour stats to reflect the real armour protection? 57mm would kill almost anything from behind (with the exclusion of king tiger and jagdtiger). Russians did show the importance of sheer AT amount when 45mm guns were ripping the sides and rears of cats (Panthers and Tigers)?
e/ will you change the speed of german AT 75mm? it moves now with the speed of light compared to allied heavy at which is again not accurate.
f/ while I can get the idea behind the inf. not being able to self dig with COH it's not helping the reality. I mean all the infantry should be able to dig in which would help the gameplay. And mines - maybe making them cheaper would help?
h/ inf in water - is the water bulletproof or is this just a vanilla bug?
I hope this is constructive and of help to u guys. And keep up the great work. I've been playing N'44 for almost 2 years and still being surprised by the possibilities.
PS. Is it possible to make these changes by myself? I mean if you do not want to implement those things I'd love to tweak it myself. Any directions welcom as I have no exp in modding COH.
godmode in water is a vanilla bug
"Jeg har ingenting, men jeg har alt når jeg har deg"
I have to agree about the arty. I played N44 for a long time, but the splash damage and the damage radius seemed way over the top, and definitely killed the fun for me and my friends who compstomp all the time. We started playing Blitzkrieg for this reason alone, but I'm desperately waiting for the N44 team to nerf the arty a bit so that I'll want to give it another try.
Great mod, really, but the artillery alone is what drove us away from it.
a) Should be fixed in 2.0
b) Stop complaining about something that is already being Fixed. 1.7 BETA As in, Not done. All that will be fixed. Its all on a nice, big priority list.
c) Allied Air Support is a HUGE Debate topic. I'd rather you not start it up again to be honest. If we give the Air support its original strength, the Mod becomes completely favoured towards the Allies. Why? Because the AA weaponry in CoH isn't the greatest and we haven't finished tweaking it yet.
As for Allied Artillery, please compare what your Off Map weaponry is compared to what the German ones are. Again, its not done yet.
d), e),: Again, on about things that we have previously stated are being worked on. Sweeten has told everyone that the Armour penetration system is not complete whatsoever in 1.7.
My recolection the speed of the Pak is being reduced. As I have stated numerous times before, we are still in a beta. The Team understands that their are problems, and we are all working on them to give everyone a better playing experience.
f) In my opinion, Giving all Infantry the ability to build trenches is, well not a good idea. I have asked for some cheaper alternative for building, just like we have the Repair squads, only with building and a hardcap of...say three.
Now, before everyone gets in an uproar about the Entrenchment issue, please, think about it. All Blitzkrieg matches are usually is whoever can get a Trench down in the Middle first and hold it. I really, really don't want N44 to become the same slogging match of Call ins, Artillery, Air Strikes and Emplacements that BK has become.
Again, my opinion.
The "Godmode" in water is certainly a Relic bug, and we can't do a thing about it (Or so I have gathered)
Thanks for putting all of this down and all, but again, were in quite an early stage here, most of the stuff everyone keeps reporting and putting up is the same few things we already know, and it really gets me down personally when I get to repost the same answers to the same questions over and over again.]
As for the Railguns, we asked the community whether we should put them in or not, they were For it.
Thank you for your critiscism. Were already working Tride and True on 2.0, and here is what Im suggesting to everyone who Converted from 44 to BK for one reason or another:
Wait for 2.0
Thats all I have to say really, were not going to start releasing anything in the next little bit unless Sweeten (And the Team) Decides to due to your Wanting/Needing for it.
Believe me, I've played 2.0 in its current state. Its ALOT better than what 1.7 is. Just give us all the time we need to fix everything and get everything shipshape and before you know it, you'll be having the time of your life again.
Hope this solved all of your questions.
Have a nice day,
Well said Twitchy
Sweeten: You got my PM mate ?
Proud member of :Normandy 44 : European Theaterhttp://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=233474
As Technical Advisor AKA : Crazy professor XD
I've noticed 2 bugs, one of them may be a gameplay element, not sure.
-Random sounds won't work. Like the armored car will shoot 3 rounds a second but will only play the sound once every 7th shot for example. Same with rockets on the halftrack, you'll here the first rocket but none after.
-When you cap resource points you will get +12 munitions a minute for example, and then it will just keep going down +8, +4, and eventually end up at +0. Maybe this is on purpose?
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