R.E.A.R.M. -alpha 0.0.3c

[Pouk]

What I meant is that the subsystem is damageable, not destroyable for good. You can disable it the same way as you disable the BC launchers, Hiigaran BC turrets, any ship's engines etc.
If you damage the launchers, the Missile BC will stay almost defenseless.

i also like the idea of the glass hammer....Its powerful..but can be killed.

Very well said. It's powerful but it doesn't stand as much damage.

[Pouk]

Tiny update, still not finished:

the crappy original concept

[doci7]

It's looking great! I'm ever-more excited about this design!

[Tekanako]

Although it is a bit rough and ready I recon your concept is great, I really love this missiile cruiser, I look fowards to the pack!

[KeyBored]

OH MAN :O

[Pouk]

Thank you people.

Now armor:

big picture

I wouldn't normally place here a picture that big for such small thing like a very old and ordinary, just finally textured armor plates, but I really like the picture. Armor plates will finally work, they'll do 10% health boost.

[Tekanako]

The armour plating looks kind like concrete, it kinda makes me think of those Normandy bunkers . I like how you've also designed that Vaygr symbol on the carrier.

[doci7]

My only problem with this is that 10% seems a little low for a Vaygr Carrier, which has comparatively awful health when compared to other capital ships. But I'm sure you know what you're doing; for all I know you've already changed the Carrier to have more default health.

[Pouk]

Tekanako: I'll maybe rework the texture in the future, it's not perfect yet, but I like the analogy with Normandy bunkers.

doci7: 55000 default health, around 65000 with two armor plates. Plus with all the capital armor upgrades you'll get a pretty nice number. But the main reason why it is that low is that it basically didn't really need the health bonus that much, it already works without it. It's a subsystem covering part of the ship, every incoming fire hitting the armor won't hurt the carrier. You can absorb a lot of hits just by turning the carrier the right way.

[Tekanako]

That armour plating will also be pretty good against strike craft, unless they were smart enough to target the carrier it self. It also gives the carrier a fighting chance to repair itself or flee when it's under heavy capital fire.

Pouk: ahh, by the way, I started the Progenitor contest on the Homeworldfanart a while back. Please get to the Progenitor redesigns soon, I'm dying to see them!

[Pouk]

All categories are open in the Homeworldfanart, good.
I don't know if I have a time for Progenitors right now. True is that I did try to analyze them, I think I understood their essence and I have an idea for the Progenitor frigate, but not much time to do anything about it or a need to use it in mod. -Unless I'll find out how to place them into existing SP campaign, because MP is really out of question, in the future maybe but not now.
I know you're probably talking about all forms of art, but unless it's for mod I don't have tome for it yet.

[doci7]

It's a subsystem covering part of the ship, every incoming fire hitting the armor won't hurt the carrier. You can absorb a lot of hits just by turning the carrier the right way.

Ah, cool! It's a double-benefit subsystem. But I should've known it worked that way; that's how ALL subsystems work, afterall...

[Pouk]

Exactly, all of them work that way (which is sometimes pretty anoying).

[ati666]

does this mod have new shaders like 3 or 4 instead of the old 2.0b?

[KeyBored]

What you should do is extract all the faces of the carrier, then extrude the extracted faces, but then scale it down so it fite the carrier perfecty so you have full armour, then no fire can hit the carrier till the armour is gone :P

[adamstrange]

I love the armor and yes it does look like concrete but thats what makes it look unique.

I say keep the texture exactly as it is.

What the ship need is to have armor all around instead of just the nose of the ship.

The other thing is where do you put the subsystems if the armor is covering the subsystem position ?

[mololu]

What you should do is extract all the faces of the carrier, then extrude the extracted faces, but then scale it down so it fite the carrier perfecty so you have full armour, then no fire can hit the carrier till the armour is gone :P

There's one problem with this: Your own outgoing fire will get blocked by the armor itself, meaning your ship won't be able to shoot anymore or if it does will shoot its own armor... which is a liiitle counter-productive.

This is probably why it only covers the front. As for the subsystems, I think you build the armor by side which then takes up a subsystem slot but I may be mistaken.

[KeyBored]

Maybe leave little gun holes then

[tadamir]

@adamstrange
- You choose to have armour in those slots or you choose to not have armour and build standard subsystem.

[Pouk]

ati666: Sorry, no shaders. I'm not even planning them because I'm weird and I like Homeworld for being kinda "hand painted". That's why I won't have any photorealistic backgrounds in the future, but I'll try to find capable 2D artists instead.
(Yeah, I actually do like it, sorry guys. Maybe I'll add them someday in the future if I happen to change my mind, but you should better expect that this mod won't have them.)

KeyBored: This was one of the variant I was thinking about, but I didn't like it. It would mean to kill the subsystem first in order to shoot at the ship itself, which isn't good for any fighting side -the carrier is at first untouchable and then it's suddenly weak as always. I like to split the damage between the two.

adamstrange: Well it will stay as it is, at least for now, because it's enough and it's not a priority.
The subsystems are on the module position. That's the way I like it, you can't have everything at the same time. Armor or hyperspace module, your choice.
I was thinking about the armor all around and maybe the carrier will get it someday. But I'll have to tune the values first, so it won't be invincible against everything but bombers, which will tear it apart pretty fast. I guess another armor family should do it, right? Didn't try it yet. So after I'll be sure it will be balanced, I can make the (almost) full body armor. But right now it's covered very well already: armor on the nose, production facility on top and engines on the rear, it all takes damage instead of the ship.
Plus as I said I like the weaknesses, so I like it as it is.

mololu: yeah, it takes up the subsystem slot and that's why it covers only the front. When I was starting it I was thinking about it like a normal module as any other module. But as I said, I like the fact that it covers the ship only partially, from the damage distribution reasons and I like making the drawbacks to everything.

[tadamir]

Just stumbled across this old thread; http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=215973

It made me wonder if you would consider making a range of shortcut icons from the new ships you've created, SuperCarrier and Vgr Artillery Frigate especially?
Having the Orange REARM shortcut icon is great and distinctive, a few ship icons could be cool too.

Obviously such a thing wouldn't be much of a priority.

Actually, how easy is it to do such a thing, can anyone make a shortcut icon image?
If my home pc weren't out of action I'd try myself.
Forgive my ignorance here, I'm probably thinking its far more technical than it is.

[mololu]

Making .ico images (shortcut images) is fairly straight forward. You'll need an editor that can save in that format (don't know one off the top of my head but google should reveal a dozen freeware tools for that).

Essentially it's nothing but a bitmap image.

[Pouk]

Sure, I can make some icons to choose from based on REARM ships.

[doci7]

It made me wonder if you would consider making a range of shortcut icons from the new ships you've created

I like this idea; may have to use it in my mod too.

[[TDN]Mechanis]

I've got a few ideas that have been looking for a home, but I lack the modeling and modding know how to give them one. think you could take a look?

[Pouk]

why not, what kind of ideas do you mean?

[[TDN]Mechanis]

One Is a vagyr assault carrier, I was essentially thinking "not-quite-a-shipyard, but need to be better than stock ug blah carrier." what I ended up with was a large ship close in concept to your Supercarrier, capable of building multiple classes (Frigates, corvettes, fighters and smaller cap-ships[eg carriers and destroyers]) five modular turret (Gun and missile, as well as an "Advanced cap-ship weapons research" giving access to Lance (anticorvette) and Heavy Missile (anti-capship only [can't target frigates. maybe change to artillery launcher for this) and two of the same missile launcher as on the destroyer nose-mounted (on 'top') that is large, slow, unmaneuverable and when fully upgraded has about the same health as a vanilla, unupgraded BC. also a few more cap-ships for both to flesh out the fleets, (cruisers mostly, but also a Higgaran Superdrednaught to make up for giving the vagyr a carrier that has, when fully upgraded, the ability to destroy small groups of fighters or a couple of frigates. (of course, to even get said carrier, you'd need hyperspace research (It's about 3/4 the size of a shipyard, so still falls in the 'supercapital' class, BC research, and the research for the thing itself. In terms of limits- two? three at most... and EXPENSIIIVE.....same cos as a shipyard with only half the modules. And I shouldn't forget the Scan Frigates....nothing on those but a single module slot (Hyperspace, inhibitor, fire control tower) and two sensor slots (normal options + Ping Device (Needs reserching, gives the ping ability) and sensor scrambler. can be upgraded to allow EMP turrets (I was wondering how to make that work, some sort of 'system scrambler beam') essentially, an EW frigate. maybe give to the higgarins? Vagyr have that pretty well covered with Command frigate.)

as for general feedback:
Higg need missile defense real bad. or better artillery. but the vagyr arty frigs, they tear through my assaults far to quickly, and that damm AI seems to only build those and nothing else... I'm getting a leetle tired of attacking forward carriers with a BC and four destroyers, and watching helplessly as about five-dozen cross-shaped icons converge on my poor 'lil BC
just seems a little bit disproportionate in terms of tonnage and RU- vagyr arty =three digits, BC= four. one BC and 4 destroyers vs 4x frigate and one carrier... and the frigs win. seem odd to you?

Ship prelim sketch for Vagyr Assault Carrier (Working title) via this elegant and finely-crafted Link

[Pouk]

Assault Carrier thing: You should know that my Vaygr Supercarrier is already designed in detail and it certainly won't look like the carrier on your concept. Also you should know that I'm generally making ships only from my own concepts. Other Vaygr carriers will be smaller, Supercarrier is the only size exception.

Hiigaran won't have any missile defense. Their Artillery frigates are already on the paper, they already have MDD with artillery turrets. Hiigaran artillery won't have as long range as the Vaygr one.
About the matter of power of Artillery frigates: AI doesn't build only them, AI does start with the Heavy Missile Frigates, then Advanced Heavy Missile Frigates and then Artillery Frigates. Artillery Frigate is supposed to be the ultimate Vaygr Frigate and it is. Plus there's a fair unit cap restriction for them. Maybe their damage is way too high, but this is all going to be reviewed in the future, balancing isn't done yet.

[[TDN]Mechanis]

hey I'm good. A higg artillery frig would definitely solve that balance issue...

and as for concepts, anybody is free to use my ideas, as I frequently don't have the time/tools/know-how to implement them myself.

I've been playing 0.0.3b obsessively for the last month. only very rarely has a mod lead me to play the game at the expense of sleep, and the mere fact that this is 'only' the alpha makes me that much more a fan. good gods, I haven't played anything else in a week, aside for the few times I attempt minesweeper.....

[[TDN]Mechanis]

So as long as I'm here, I thought I'd share some of the modular destroyer configurations I've found particularly effective...

First up is one I imaginatively dubbed Standard 2.0, with top and back artillery cannon, front LC mass driver, nose pulsars, and a torp launcher on the bottom. essentially used like a normal destroyer.

BIIg pic (1-5)

Next I have the 'Shock and awe,' with front, top, and bottom torps and rear and nose flack cannon. I generally hyperspace these in, the follow up with a BC or two...

Big pic (2-5)

then comes the 'specialist,' Nose pulsars, bottom torps, and the remaining three slots hold ion cannon, HE artillery cannon, or LC mass drivers. tactics are pretty straightforward, short-rangers charge and med-long rangers hold off and support.

yet another big pic (3-5)

Ahhh, flack destroyers.... top torps, nose torps, and everything else is flak. three of these'' tear heavy-duty fighter assaults to itty-bitty pieces.... this is a big flack frigate. use it like one.

big pic again (4-5)

Finally, the 'heavy-hitter,' with two torps (Front and bottom) and top- and -back mounted Ion cannon or artillery cannon. these are cap-ship-killers, five can kill a pair of vagyr BC's if properly managed.

Big pic (Last one I promise!)

And of course to make an artillery piece, give it four HE artillery cannon and nothing in the nose slot.

[KeyBored]

I find them too complicated....Maybe with BC's where you dont have 20 of them :/

[Pouk]

[TDN]Mechanis:

I've been playing 0.0.3b obsessively for the last month. only very rarely has a mod lead me to play the game at the expense of sleep, and the mere fact that this is 'only' the alpha makes me that much more a fan. good gods, I haven't played anything else in a week, aside for the few times I attempt minesweeper.....

I'm glad to hear that, that you like it. And to be honest I paradoxically play (truly play) Homeworld or REARM just minimally, I can never try an hour or longer game, because I always find something I want to improve and s restart Homeworld and test it again and again and again... So you have most likely more experience with actual gameplay then me.

I'm always very interested in people favorites Modular Destroyer armament. I kinda hoped that after I release the MDD, someone will share his favorites configurations, but until now it didn't really happen. Very nice.

KeyBored: It really isn't that complicated, I've tryed to make an organized system for building that high number of combinations, but even if it was, then:
-At first you don't mind, because you're having all the fun with finding your own ideal destroyer, what suits you best (at least I found it fun, even in time I had only three turret types).
-Pretty soon you'll figure it out and you know exactly what you want, you just automatically click a few artillery turrets here, few torpedo batteries or ion cannons there and you don't think about it.
-And if it's still too complicated, you don't have to use them at all.

[[TDN]Mechanis]

It may be that the actual configuration doesn't matter, as far as what slot the turret is in, But I'm a sticker and like my ships to be ascetically pleasing as well as effective. hence my awesome white-and-very-light-blue color scheme.....

you may want to up the damage on the HE's though, as it requires vast (16+) numbers of MDD's to be an effective threat against anything bigger than a frigate.... maybe 140-something? I never use 'em, I've found that it isn't cost-effective when compared to loading up on torps and ions.also, a suggestion: If you have time, I'd suggest making the MDD armaments scaled a bit, for example have HC mass drivers cannon, ion and artillery research, then have another research that gives HE artys.

I'd also like to say that adding a single module slot to the DD's which can equip ether sensors, HSM, or FCT (and maybe som more shiny armor for the vagyr) would be Really, Really really frikin' nice. especially since higg MDD has artillery, having the ability to extend it's base sensor range would help with the whole 'completely outclassed' thing....


(oh and is it just me or do pulse cannon not do anything?)

[constermonster]

I find the most effective modular destroyer is 4 flaks and nose pulsars - serve with BC. u basically have a capital ship group that is completely multipurpose. And it looks awesome, the flak

-maybe the pulsars arent doing anything? but it doesnt matter cuz all fighters, corvettes, and miners go down super fast

[[TDN]Mechanis]

pulsars shred corvettes, flacks not so much. I try not to give my forces too much specialization, I hate microing cap-ship when you've 50+...

so I sacrifice some of a MDD's anti-corvette capacity to give it ok capacity advanced everything. really it depends on how much you want to micro, and how may you're deploying at once.


(oh, I don't suppose we could get Pulsar frigates and turrets for the MDDs? perhaps as a researched improvement, especially for Ion faction... )

[Pouk]

[TDN]Mechanis:
-HE damage will be most likely increased, but I'll lower the penetration against smaller ships, so it will rise only for DD's and bigger capships.
-"scaled a bit" and all the things about research. You mean to add more levels of research, am I right?
-DD's won't get any more slots, i want to keep the modularity on a reasonable level. Vaygr will probably get their DD's modification, similar to the Hiigaran MDD, but with much less weapons.
-what Pulse cannon. I've called Pulse cannons the Vaygr red plasma weapons, so do you mean Pulse DD or the support frigate?

constermonster:
That's the problem, take it from the other side, imagine to be Vaygr agaist Flak DD. It has to be limited somehow.

[TDN]Mechanis again:
Pulsar frigates will be when I'll get to the Hiigaran Frigates, but there are other priorities in this class, Artillery frigates for instance. And no, really, you can't get pulsars for MDD. I'm glad I could keep at least one counter for that ship -corvettes. I like to keep it that way, flaks make Vaygr life hard enough and at least I can type a single thing into the "Weak agaist" ship description.

[[TDN]Mechanis]

Hmmm...

If you can make 'em faction-specific, hoe 'bout the Ion faction having Pulsar turrets instead of flacks? just make 'em have 20% accuracy VS fighters or something.

maybe add the ability to, say, sacrafice a waepon for a HS module or advanced sensors?

so you don't add any extra slots, just more options....advance sensors in nose slot, everything else builds in same standard slots?

and yeah, having more levels to the research would be good.

[Pouk]

1) true, I can do that. But then people would never understood why I didn't let them build that thing normally and frankly, they would just never get over it. You know what I mean, while it's not there, it's not as upseting as it would be modelled, buildable and set to work, but just not for your normal modular destroyer.
"What the eye doesn't see, the heart doesn't grieve over".

Only way for me would be to have two MDDs, first kinetic, second with energy weapons. And each could build a half of weaponry. But then you would have only half of the weapons and the problem would be the same.

2) I did thought about it when I was making the ship and yes, there's always that possibility. But right now you have hundred of combinations, it has to stop somewhere. It's way above the normall HW2 standards already. There really are a lot of new things, why it's not enough then?
"Let people have one finger and they take the whole hand".

There will be such thing for another destroyer though. Maybe someday for this one too, but not before I'll figure out how to make a reasonable restriction, some very advanced research maybe. Right at this time I definitelly know that there'll be the third level of research for Hiigaran, it can maybe be there (together with the pulsars, who cares when the third level will unlocks the dreadnaughts and battleships)

3) Not for the warships, no. I will remove the one of the Artillery frigate too, it's pointless there. About the MDD, you said it yourself, it does require quite a lot micro sometimes, you don't want it for every ship in the fleet.

4) You said that like it was not what you was talking about. What was you talking about then? You said something about scaling and then talked about the same thing like it's about research. I've asked you what did it mean and you replied like I had a good idea with what I said. So what was it what you was originally talking about?

[constermonster]

although flak dd is a threat to vaygr strike craft fleets, artillery frigates can be incredibly effective against them - maybe an advanced thruster subsysten with `15-30% boost to speed, rotation speed or accel or combination for the bottom would help balance out? so arty frigates could stay out of effective range of large capital ship fleets while still hurting them considerably, depending on numbers. Sort of plays in with the idea of vaygr guerilla warfare IMO

i understand the artillery frigates are designed to be slightly slower than other frigates, but having the choice between anti fighter weapon and increased mobility to avoid frigates and capital ships might be an interesting gameplay tweak

the main reason of increased mobility would be to run away from capships that hyperspace in

btw i think the mods great, lots of fun but gameplay/design stays true to the original - esp. pulse dd! the increase in # of customisable ships is a simple but effective solution to increase the lifetime of this game - very similar to some of relics other games in that way.

one thing i was wondering is if u would want to increase the downlod distances? seeing as most comps can handle it on max, would be nice to have mothership/shipyard models staying a little crisper further out. I made a myself a mini-mod doing this just by adding an extra 0 on all the "uplod" and "downlod" values, as well as "goblinsfade" and "goblinsstartfade" in the .ship files. Performance shouldn't be a problem anyway though, because of the geometry scaling option in the menu - food for thought.

[FeralSquirrel]

Greetings. I've long lurked on the Relic forums but never registered until recently- specifically doing so to follow R.E.A.R.M. in fact.

Pouk, you exceeded all expectations with your mod when I tried it. I've tried several mods from when I saw what was available for the original Homeworld, up to Complex and PDS for HW2. Simply put it's brilliant. Blows them out of the water even.

I've lusted for something different, for customisation of at least *one* vessel- nevermind now being able to hot-swap things out as needs be with your tasty modular Destroyer. The new platforms just topped it off, love them.

You've done a grand job and iv'e been following it avidly as soon as I could try it, never mind being modest, it's a great piece of work. I tried modding once before myself but don't have the time nor expertise to efficiently do so (not to mention I couldn't model or texture to save my life anyway!).

I understand that things are still in it's Alpha stage but regardless what i've seen so far is more than enough to keep me regularly checking back for it's next release which i'll be speeding down my internet tubes in record time as soon as I see it!

Anyway, before I ramble on heaping praise on you until you start to suffocate, don't you dare give up- this is simply fantastic so far and i'll be here keeping my watchful gaze on how things develop, emptying my bucket of drool at every new screenie you post up.

Keep up the good work. Feral out.

[[TDN]Mechanis]

research=good plan. maybe have two 'trees' you can research, something like this...
(' ' is working title, [ ] is RU cost estimate.)

>base-mass driver cannon, flack cannon, all nose weapons.

>tier 1
   >'weapons' tree
      >Torpedo launcher - [300-400]
      >LC mass diver cannon - [250?]
   >'Systems' tree
      >Preliminary system assessment (does nothing except unlock next research level) - [580-600]
>tier two
   >'weapons' tree
      >Artillery cannon - [400-500]
      >Ion cannon - [600-650]
   >'systems' tree
      >Scan array miniaturization - unlock nose-slot Advanced sensor array - [800-850]
      >Reactor power efficiency improvement - next tier of research unlocked, required for Ion cannon use - [1000]
>tier three
   >'weapons' tree
      >HE artillery cannon - [8-900]
   >'Systems' tree
      >tracking system miniaturization - allows Fire control tower to be built in one of the slots. - [1000]
      >Phase systems integration- unlocks final research tier - [1000-1500]
>Tier Four- Advanced systems
   >Phase interlocks- [1000]
      >improved power relays - [1300]
         >Hyperspace core synchronization - [2000] - each unlocks in turn, giving access to the following addinl' researches: 
            >Hyperspace lockout initiator-allows Hyperspace inhibitor to be built in on non-nose slot. - [1600]
            >Hyperspace systems integration-allows Hyperspace module to be constructed in non-nose slot. - [2000]
            >Hyperspace monitoring post-allows HS sensor array to be built in non-nose slot. - [1000-1500]
            >Electronic warfare systems-allows sensor scrambler in nose slot. - [1200]

all weapons and systems restrained by research
also, as there are no additional slots, you must reduce the fighting ability of you configuration to use one.

in other words...
MDD subsystems
>nose-pulsar turret
>front-torpedo launcher
>top- HS sensors
>back- HC MDC
>bottom- ion cannon

or alternately, a EW destroyer-

>advanced sensor array-nose
front HS inhibitor
top fire control tower
rear HS sensors
bottom HS module
no attack here, but still useful as a way to 'slingshot' a group of, say, 6 flack frigates and 8 torp frigates somewhere without reveling the direction your shipyard is hiding in, for example.
or the most obvious-
Front, top down and back HEs, nose Advanced sensor.

but getting there would cost mucho smackers. (I mean, you are talking about retrofitting systems to something half the size of the smallest ship (By volume-vagyr BC) that carries them normally... you'd at least have to overhaul the power plants! (Particularly for Ion cannon... if I remember my lore correctly, those things are major energy hogs. and as long as you're overhauling things, those power relays on deck five have been giving me some trouble, and soon enough, you've got the whole thing disassembled in dry dock and the foreman comes and yells at you to work faster....anyway, costs increase dramatically, meaning to get modules you might not get that fifth BC....

[Pouk]

tadamir:
Hey I've just made 12 icons. It was fun and I believe some of them are quite good. But they are tiny, I've made them in what I believe is the standard -48x48px. They could have been bigger, couldn't they? But for the desktop icons it seems enough.

I really hope you like them.
Also for those who want to do the same, I recommend using Photoshop plugin instead of icon creating software, it's faster that way.


constermonster:
"advanced thruster subsystem" -with the third level of research, you can get a cinema multiplex or a large shopping center on this DD (third level will be very advanced, what I'm talking about is to extend the concept of Hiigaran having two research modules and Vaygr one. So I don't mind it there, it's a later game research). I've figured out that you guys won't let me be unless I make you some other extra stuff for DD's. I know I shouldn't do it, because then you will demand more and more you hungry beasts and you'll never stop, but I'll give you this one, the bottom weapon slot. I Won't be making the front sensors though.
So on the same technological level as dreadnaughts, you'll get new things for MDD (as I said, on the place of the bottom weapon slot). Now what will it be.

-thrusters (nice long engine pod on the bottom of the ship)
-defense field (defense field or cloaking, game is limited to have only one of those, but I would go for defense field, because there's still gonna be the stealth DD)
-HS module? Maybe, some expensive one with small radius or much better, with no radius at all. But not HS inhibitor, it's more Vaygr or kadeshi thing.
-and one more thing I just forget.

All those thing seems like way too much, it is way too much actually, but if you build them, you're sacrificing a weapon slot (which is fair and which is compromise -I love compromises in my mod, it makes it realistic). Also, it will be a very hi-tech research.

I can do the LOD distance modifications. It shouldn't be much work. Mostly I don't really care, but you're the second person reminding me the LOD and goblins disappearing distances, so I'll probably do it. After all, 2003 is long gone, so why not.


FeralSquirrel:
Thank you for your words, it made my day. And don't worry, I won't dare to give it up.


[TDN]Mechanis:
I'll think about how deep research do I really need, I do need some more research options than I have now, yes, but at the same time it can't be much complicated.

And about your EW DD. It's basically the similar thing as my Stealth DD. The concept of stealth destroyer actually came out of something totally different, from a discussion about why aren't the MDD torpedo batteries animated, so I've said to myself to do such DD with hidden weapons (like F-35, F-117...).
And because there'll be two -one battle destroyer and one stealth (or you can call it EW), they'll also have different armament. MDD really won't have any sensors, it will leave the scouting to other units or to the second destroyer.
Well, I'm saying second but that's also not true, there'll be also light and heavy variation, each one normal and modular. So you'll definitely shouldn't have a feeling that you're missing something. You will eventually, but when it happen, please remember the normal state -single destroyer with kinetic turrets.

Ion cannons matter: I'm really not afraid here about my Ions taking too much energy. All you need to do is to look at the ion frigate, you'll see that the frigate itself can have a very powerful ion weapon, if you compare the size and damage of the turret with the Ion frigate, you'll see it's realistic.

Modules would require a lot of power, yes. But I could make them (as you said) expensive and also less effective. Like when i was talking about the HS module, but the module which can jump only the ship itself for example.

[[TDN]Mechanis]

hey, good idea! kind of like 'we don't have room for external generators, so it won't jump other ships.....'

later...


Am I the only one who wonders why there aren't any Railcannon or MACs in this?

a vayger MAC frigate wold be nifty....give it an engine subsystem though. maybe something slow and clunky-looking, firing huge shells....short-range with long reload time (60+ secs) and a pair of top-and-bottom mounted lance defense guns? hmmm... gimme a sec....

Crappy MS paint 'skech'

essentially- a giant space cannon. unwieldy, but useful as a 'Shock-and-awe' factor (IE a volley of shells larger than corvettes streaks out form that 'safe' dust cloud and pulverizes your BC's and destroyers.... of course, they shouldn't even be able to target frigates and smaller, these are purely anti-capital weapons. and once they fire you'd better think up something else pretty fast, seeing as there really slow and only have a pair of lance guns for defense.... give 'em miserable range too (1.5 KM? at most...) since they are essentially having to manufacture new shells after every shot, it makes scene for them to have long reload times. but definitely vaygr... I can see it now, 'Hey, buddy you know what would be a great idea?' 'what?'' let's tack the biggest gun we can find, make or steal to a frigate chasse and take it out for a spin! what could possibly go wrong?'




Ohay, can we get rad shielding upgrades for ship classes? 'case you'd think a race with LASER CANNON would have figured out rad shielding by now (And we see some of that in the campaign too, so the code must exist somewhere....)

[constermonster]

ooohh.. stealth subsystems on DD would be epic! Personally i luv the f22's folding stuff (esp the gattling gun lol) and seeing that on the destroyer would be really cool.

I really dont thing it matters how much energy or w/e ion cannons and such use lol - in the words of eddie murphy in ghostbusters, "it's technical."

[Pouk]

What is MAC?
The picture doesn't work.
Radiation shielding should be there somewhere, but why do we need that, there's no radiation in MP.

Edit: So what was on the picture?

[Krnt]

MAC = Magnetic Accelerated Cannon.

It's only an opinion, but i like the the vaygr to have High energy, low frequency energy weapons (that's why the red color) and missiles, better than having magnetically accelerated weapons, just saying.

[tadamir]

Thanks for doing those .ico images Pouk, I think they look great!

Was trying to pick a favourite but they are all cool in their own way, nice one.

(oop, didn't mean to off-topic current discussion, *goes back to trying to catch up on a weeks worth of RNF readings)

[[TDN]Mechanis]

image fixed(I think,) and the children of Vay also have a large kinetic weapon (BC Trinity cannon)

[Pouk]

tadamir:
Glad you like them. And it can't be off-topic, topic of the thread is REARM.

[TDN]Mechanis:
I get it now. Gun-like ship with a recoil block (similar like my Armed Support frigate, but larger). I like the whole gun shape, it looks like a flying shotgun.
But it would be what? Short range weapon with a long reload time? It would die a lot, it would just fly into front lines, fired once and then just serve as a big drone for target practice. Also, the whole high energy concept would guarantee a pretty long range. I would personally see it more like a middle range artillery.

Also, Trinity isn't kinetic weapon at all, what made you think that? Yes, you can say that when it hits the ship, kinetic energy of that plasma can do a lot damage, but generally no, it's not considered as kinetic weapon.

[gthompsn]

I think he was saying that the BC Trinity _should_ be kinetic if we are being consistent with the strengths of each race (i.e. being primarily focused on kinetic weapons, energy weapons or missiles).