It's custom debris IIRC.
ah ok... just thought that piece in the lower left-hand corner was a collector.
....it would be pretty cool idea for mod - have the mothership ferry ru collectors in and out of capital ship bay to construct shipyard - but a real pain to script x(
mac/ whatever frigate: I was mainly thinking that range& reload would be miserable to allow for immense damage potential, but really It's a matter of balance (IE. you kind of have a three-sided balance when designing weapons; reload, range and damage. ) my own initial idea was a sort of high-accuracy shotgun: miserable range, and takes forever to reload but HOLEY MOLEY WHERE'D HIS HEAD GO?!?
but if you do use it, I can see it more as a mid-range glass cannon quite well.
It is, after all, your mod. I'm a mere ideas man, I can't do anything approaching your level of rendition, so I figure as long as I have stuff I can't do, that might be cool, someone who can do 'em justice ought to have 'em available (I've also noticed I have a tendency to see an idea and get one of my own. here's hoping you may find inspiration form my sometimes-odd little scribbles of thought...)
Keep up the awesome, good sir!
Head Of The Terran Defense Network and longtime Homeworld fan
anyone who plays Turanic Raiders needs to read this epic (Ongoing!) tale of daring space piracy and life on the fringes.
then, every time you catch yourself going 'ohhh, shiny' when about to run off with a battlecruiser, you will know why.
I was suggested to find an alpha testing team leader -someone who would find and organize a bunch of alpha testers and the testing itself, giving testers a specific tasks or organize the MP test games. I have to admit I really like the idea.
Alpha testing team leader should:
-have modding experience (that's why I'm asking here)
-be truly interested in this mod
-know how to start a bug tracking system (Mantis or similar)
-know how to run SVN or have other useful skills
I don't necessary have to find anyone soon and I don't really expect much response now or later, but someone on this position would really help me a lot.
Don't worry, I'll think about the idea.
I know how to run an svn, have modding experience, im interested in this mod, but, whats mantis?
KeyBored, thanks for your interest.
As far as I know, Mantis is a MySQL based Bug Tracker (the system for reporting bugs), it doesn't necessary have to be this one, but I'd like to have some bug tracker.
Well the SVN has a changelog.....
If the end side can edit the changelog and use it for reporting bugs, then why not.
MacModder here to inquire about the progress of the mac version.
By the way, that MAC frigate idea looks interesting. I can see a swarm of them: cheap, one shot units attacking a massive battlecruiser. First- crippling bomber strikes in the face of enemy fighter cover. Then the barrage. The battlecruiser collapses- but the enemy destroyers are closing in. The Vaygr fall back, but the Hiigarans are coming! Do the Vaygr have enough time to reload? Stay tuned...
Everything has a reason.
I'm pretty sure the next version will run on Macs. I don't really remember how exactly was it -0.0.3 ran on Macs fine, while new gamerule scripting in 0.0.3b made it completely unplayable, right? And the ship description doesn't work since I've made the localization.
Now the game type can be switched to the Mac Compatibility mode, which right now isn't anything but the default deathmatch (so it should run on Mac). But I want to do the first step and keep at least those scripts which don't cause crashes (Starting fleets, RU injections maybe, probably not factions). To find out which those are I need someone with Mac, so would you like to help me with it?
What I like about the MAC frigate (-Magnetic Accelerated, railgun or gauss gun, I don't know the difference) is the roughness and high instant damage, which suits the Vaygr well.
I have only few problems with that, the way it was presented -high velocity + low range doesn't really make much sense in space. I know we are not exactly trying to be much realistic in Homeword, but it have to make at least some sense. That's was the very reason why my high damage low range Modular Destroyer weapons are called the large caliber kinetic turrets, not railguns for example, because those would just have to be artillery weapons.
Second thing is, if the reload time will be too high, than no matter the extreme damage, it's just not worth it. It shoots at something else when you're not keeping attention or you just miscalculate the health of enemy destroyer and your deadly salvo won't be as deadly as expected and the badly damaged DD or just anything else will slaughter your tiny frigates.
Plus imagine the fact that the crew of that thing clearly have to be a bunch of suicidal nuts, their mission is to get close, fire and then just wait or run away, helpless, defenseless and shit scared, counting down every second ("We can make it! We can be be the fifth crew who actually survived this!")
Yeah but other than that I like it. I like the construction idea, I just think we should come up with reasonable tactics. Not to lose the high damage and long reload times, but at least make it a middle range artillery (so it can at least mix with other frigates or better be behind them). Or if it would be short range weapon (I can see why do you like the idea), it can't have the long reload times.
Right. I'd help you sort through the scripts that would work with Mac, but I don't know a whole lot of what works, what doesn't, and why, and your mod is too big to download from my current internet connection, so it's a good thing MacModder is around to help you with it. It is very kind of you to support Macs with your mod; a growing number of mods don't, sadly.new gamerule scripting in 0.0.3b made it completely unplayable, right?
Well along the MAC frigate idea, you could maybe; Make it a long range weapon instead to counteract the long reload time, you could make it an add-on to the Artillery frigate or make it a destroyer class ship but no other larger weapons.
Last edited by Gagrit; 16th Jun 10 at 12:27 AM.
The basic idea of the MAC is a throwaway battlewinner. It doesn't matter if they can't actually destroy the target- no commander in his right mind would send them in alone. Surely they would have a strikecraft escort or even a heavy missile frigate squad. The whole idea of the MAC is an anti-supercapital ship weapon, each individual cheap and useless but together invincible (relatively speaking).
The idea somewhat resembles what we saw in cataclysm in fiorm of ramming frigates just... different.
I've been toying with the idea of big *shotgun* style weapons for some time, basically the same idea that was presented here. Only thing is, I could never find a niche it could fill.
What role would it have? Damage vs. everything but weak? Counter a specific unit class? And what would the range/armor be? If it never survives long enough to fire it's useless. But if it survives too long... well, you get the point.
Anyways, it would be wonderful to see this implemented in a good way!
Path To Victory
- I can count to 1024 on my fingers! -
What about making them short range shotguns with buildable subsystem (longer barrel or some other barrel extension) which makes it long range weapon instead, which would have even longer reload time. Or you can build the armor on that slot instead of the long range extension and you'll get the similar effect as carrier armor -HP boost plus physical coverage.
I'm not sure I like the long range idea however buildable armor really sounds good to me.
Why not, it's a big kinetic projectile, it can have different warheads, one close range for literally melting the armor and biting pieces of steel out, second for long range (Ok, standard middle range) fight.
-Just like shotgun shells and slugs.
Edit: I just had another nice idea, once I start to think about things like that, it's pretty certain I'm gonna make them.
How we're gonna call it? MAC is fine, but maybe we should stick to the classic kinetic weapons with big fire effect. I would also prefer some more REARM name, something which makes sense immediately.
while I agree with pouk on the range- high velocity/ short range in space doesn't make sense, I'm in favour of leaving it short ranged- it is an unguided progectile, you can't use it at long ranges in a dynamic environment, your target will have moved by the time the round should hit.
How to make this weapon usefull?
1) fire at short ranges: your target will not have moved; at high velocities and short ranges active defences (CWIS, Point Defences, etc) won't have enough reaction time to stop the progectile/ defend the ship.
2) operate in shoals: safety in numbers is the name of the game, especially if your weapon has a long reload/recharge time; this also allows you to inflict a massive amount of damage in a very short time.
3) be mobile: Duck in, throw your punch, duck out, if you're flying a tin can with a gun that only points in one direction (this type of weapon doesn't lend itself to being in a turret- too long), you cannot just stand there and shoot. strike craft style attack runs, with a long fast straightaway in and a long fast exit to give time to reload, are the way to go.
Essentially, a frigate sized bomber.
4) put the MAC cannon in an immobile, very heavily armored shell, and field them in huge numbers. overcome the range/ targeting problem by being able to point a gun/ put a round at every location the target ship Could move to, and then have a second and third firing line that can do the same while the first and second groups are reloading
Hopefully that gives you a few ideas of their battlefield role and some methods of employment.
Honestly, as much fun as MAC cannon are, I don't think it is a weapon system that fits well in the Homeworld universe, especially without a radically different race. It's not fast or maneuverable enough to engage or evade HW style strikecraft, and a turreted capitol ship won't have to maneuver to fire at it, its only problem is having too many targets to fire at, but with enough armor it will still be able to engage them all, and likely destroy or damage them badly enough to pull their teeth.
Against a group of DDs or BCs, MAC frigates won't have the survivability.
1) Makes sense.
2) Hmm, what if... What if I'd mixed it with the High Command mode here, let's say they are cheap and unmanned, so it could be built in a group of two or three for the normal price (if they would be just cheap, they would use the unit caps the same way, one frigate for one population unit.). Like a frigate sized partially suicidal drone squad.
3) Different attack style makes sense. But what about Keeper attack style (circle around).
4) Not sure I understand.
Yeah it was helpful, made me think.
I think it does suit Vaygr pretty well. Like the Vgr BC -massive spinal gun. They tend to relay on the first devastating salvo instead of continual low damage stream of fire.
But yes, there are still problems with their use and lifespan.
Pouk,I think that the SuperCarrier should have its own unique build list.
This is just my opinion but in my mods Builder Ships other than the standard Carrier and Shipyard can only build new and specific ships.
This makes the upgrade path really fun and gives the game and extra strategic edge to the player that first builds this or any ship like this.
What you can do is to remove the Artillery Modular Destroyer from the MS and only allow the SuperCarrier and SY to build it.
Or you can have the SuperCarrier build a lighter faster type of new Destroyer.
Instead of the standard Fighters & Corvettes,have it build a new set of Fighters,Bombers & Corvettes.
strange...as wonderfull as it may be,i'm still...up here... floating...and no one even seems to notice.
It's weak, but maybe Battering Frigate. It's evocative of the battering ram used in ancient battles; you've got dozens of guys painstakingly tugging the large beam back, then letting it swing forward and do unthinkable damage to the enemy castle's gate, then they go back to pulling it into place again. And if it survives long enough to break through, its work is done. The name isn't great, but it seems almost like the best tie to a historical weapon. That I can think of.How we're gonna call it?
Why don't you call them plasma ram frigates?
I like doci7's description of this frigate, cheap and many of them. And, incidentally, in medieval warfare no battering ram would dare attack without archer support- in homeworld 2 that would be artillery frigs and strikecraft.
In case you haven't noticed by now, I am very fond of the idea of swarms of frigates taking down battlecruisers only to be decimated by destroyers who are in turn decimated by battlecruisers who in turn... you get the idea.
I know what you mean and in some cases it will be inevitable, or at least partially true (for example Supercarrier won't be able to build heavy destroyers), there'll be new ship classes for only new production ships, but generally I can't or I don't want to do much more than that. I have millions of build families already for the faction gameplay, this would require even more. (Not millions, but seriously insanely a lot of them, believe me. Families for normal units, for each of three faction plus subfamilies for special faction cases, families for faction production ships, plus every normal family copied once more for the High Command mode)
Why not, I like the name.
I don't think we're talking about plasma weapons. Maybe hybrid kinetic projectiles covered in plasma would be a beautiful thing, but it's generally supposed to be a kinetic weapon.
I know your circle of life (more like triangle of death, rock paper scissors) theory and I generally have nothing against it, but I still don't know how would you like to implement it without dramatic changes. Also, with so many units it's more complex environment, everything is weak or strong against something else, if you would want this, you would have to simplify things instead of building new units.
Anyway, is this frigate fitting into this? Or was you talking about the frigates in squad of two or three?
I'm not talking about a pure circle, my last post must have been misleading.
Simply put, I would like the player to be able to choose between a "zerg-rush" and building a superheavy capital ship w/fighter escorts.
Also, frigates and capitals alike are vulnerable to bombers, it is not a circle.
How would this require large changes to the game? I don't understand. All that would be needed is either to make frigates cheaper or stronger.
on a only vaguely related note, I have three play-ready maps for ya. all are Huge sized, and have large quantities of space and RU's.
you can download them here.
anybody got suggestions on a free hosting site to mirror this?
I've got a Salvage Wars map coming soon, by-the-by, so perhaps a mobile salvager (Salvage frigate?) to assist with that would be good.
essentially a mobile refinery, but instead of a resource drop for mining asteroids, it's got a dock for salvaging chunks of destroyed ships.
Last edited by [TDN]Mechanis; 17th Jun 10 at 1:08 AM.
Re: 2- drone frigate squad) oh, cool idea, great solution!
Re: 3- circle attack) I figured the best plan would be to take your shot then get out of enemy range as fast as possible while your MAC cannon recharged/ reloaded- hence the bomber style run. circle strafing makes you a moving target (which is an improvement over vanilla, where FF's just sit there waiting to get shot back), but why stick around to take his abuse?
On the other hand, if you are circling outside his range but inside yours, it makes sense
OOH! or like when Orca's go after a herring shoal- they circle the herring to keep them balled up, then they dart in/ through the shoal and return to the circle ( i wonder if HW2 can cope with a style like that?)
4) Essentially, turn it into a platform. Anticlimactic, I know, but reasonably efficient.
Good point about the Vaygr mentality of "make the first punch the last punch", I hadn't thought of that. Should probably play as them more often (might have more success with them if I kept that in mind, too)
2) I'll do that.
3) I've tried circle and it doesn't work well, frigates are colliding and passing through the targeted ship and such thing, so circle attack is out of the question. I'll experiment with the bomber style and see how will it work. Only problem I can think of right now is the timing and synchronization, but it will probably be fine.
4) Platform? I can have another platform with that weapon, but this as a platform?
Use the keepers's circlestrafe script and make sure the distance is far enough from the target. Also ensure the formation is spread out enough, it should work for frigates (works for single frigates anyways)
Bomber style has one issue: Due to slow acceleration times on frigates compared to fighters, you will end up with collisions if you don't set the break distance long enough. And if you set it too high your frigates will barely fire.
It takes some tuning to get them working properly I've found.
-You're right, it should work, but we are talking about a very short range weapon.
-Then I'll try to edit my own, just like it did with the Ion frigates.
Nice. Now I just wish I actually had some glasses.
whow, cool idea.
"Sorry, you can not add yourself to your own buddy list."
Homeworld 2 Treeedeeee? (3D)
Hey I like what ideas this brings up.
i wonder if u could get it to work with stereoscopic 3d? this allows 3d to work in colour. Unfortunately u need the monitor and glasses kit, which costs; and to my knowledge it only works with nvidia; but i think most games work with that reasonably well - still, it might not work at all so not rly worth it lol
also is this really 3d? I'm not sure, but shouldnt the images closer to the camera be further apart?
constermonster: They don't say anything about Homeworld here. After some googling I can tell you that HW2 really doesn't work with 3D vision. For example there.
It could but it all depends on what are you focusing on. It's certainly better to have the main part of the image "in one piece" (which doesn't hurt your eyes, it makes it sharp). The in-focus part is sharp and everything behind it or in front of it is "apart". I'm focusing on the foreground, I hope it makes sense with my english.also is this really 3d? I'm not sure, but shouldnt the images closer to the camera be further apart?
I understand, so the closer they objects to are at the focal point rather than the greatest distance away determines how close they are. Cool
Pouk, Do Homeworld 1 support 3D?, this could be interesting to test because this awesome 10 years old game sometimes support some unusual things.
I didn't find much about Homeworld 1, but the 3D vision seems to have problem with RTSs in general, so it's most probably no.
So I have been playing a lot with the b release and I have to say it is really fun. The one thing I think would be really cool is if the modular destroyer also had the ability to build subsystems like a hs module or gravity well or sensors array or other modules. Of course these would take up the same slots as the weapons so building a hs module and a gravity well and a sensors array means you only get one weapon.
Yes, that will be there. Under some deep research, but Modular Destroyers will be able to build some modules on the bottom weapon slot, like defense field generator or compact HS mudule. I originally didn't want it, but people asked for it, so yes.
I have a BD present for you Pouk!
Welcome to Edom!
"I thought you would have invented slood by now, I've got a billion tons of ice coming in on Thursday."
Thud! Terry Pratchett.
A few concepts for the Edomite Navy, something that I concocted 2 weeks ago.
Still don't understand why did you post it in my thread, if you want to promote your mod or ideas, you should do it in your own thread.
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