It's Official: Dawn of War 2 Expansion - Chaos Rising

[stranger]

they're putting little effort into creating this expansion. You take a Space Marine model and add horns.

And then change half a dozen texture files, redo a high poly version of the marine, rebake 3-4 normal maps, redo the other dozen different flavours of material maps, tweak/add animations, add unique fx, add more animations, add unique voice acting, a truckload of new code, rinse repeat till you're ready to get the 'not marines with horns attached' models... And after that you're ready to make a race out of this mess. Calling that just oversimplification is like calling the atlantic a 'larger puddle'.

The rest is realy a wild rant/whine based on a bunch of opinions, so I'm not even gona go there.

[Buguba]

DoW II is Relic's worst game to date, funny that I hear that EVERYWHERE I go, but this place is an exception.

I wonder if it ever occured to you that the people who liked DoW 2 would go to the fan sites, but the people who didn't wouldn't? That's like saying that rooting for your university's sports teams makes you a fanboy. Of course you'll root for them, you're a part of them.

Which is EXACTLY why I feel they're putting little effort into creating this expansion. You take a Space Marine model and add horns. I know I'm oversimplifying things here, but my point is - since those factions are so similar, another race with its own campaign would make me much more willing to fork out money for the expansion.

I'm not sure what you want here then. It seems to me that you're just the kind of person who's unsatisfied no matter what. Relic has given plenty to this game, but they'ves skimped on other parts. That's no different from other games though, IMO. I'm not sure what you're looking for.

Chaos was one of the most sought for races in the game, and I don't think that Relic is "skimping" by making them. They may be very similar to Space Marines, but I think that's more an aspect of how they always have been rather than Relic going out of their way to jip you.

[hellic]

From the back I don't think the Plague Marines are any different than normal CSMs. They better not just be CSMs with a green glow and a few boils on their armor.

[Enosh]

I'm not sure what you're looking for

oh come on it's obvious
a reskined version of DoW1

[Octopus Rex]

I think you cannot ignore the fact that Chaos Space Marines were previously genuine space marines and bear many of the same weaponry, armour (albeit older), vehicles and force organisation (such as unit types, chain of command etc.). Granted they're not exactly the same, but the similarities are just unavoidably close. I understand the scepticism of cheaping out on art assets etc, but too much emphasis on daemons and the more exotic units would just not be representative of a CSM army, so I wish people would stop whining about it. Everyone whinged when Chaos weren't in it, now they will be. At least be happy for that much. You know what DOW2 is all about, you know how the expansion will play (it'll basically be exactly the same as vanilla), we'll probably know all the units present before release - if that's not your bag then you know by now and you don't need to waste the money.

[LoneWolf666]

Well, the only place a revolution could come is the campaign, and it's not coming - seems they have taken the evolutionary route.

[Cortlendt]

Where do I get to see the Bloodcrusher? I got the Bloodletter, but this one eludes me.

[stranger]

Well, the only place a revolution could come is the campaign, and it's not coming - seems they have taken the evolutionary route.

Thank nurgle for that. It's bad enough now, but try to imagine all that whining if they tried to actualy make something revolutionary...

[FooF]

Phaid, don't post in this thread again. All you're doing is drawing this thread completely off-topic with personal opinion. We're here to discuss the Chaos Expansion, not the failures of Relic or how little/much effort was put into creating the Chaos army for DoW2.

[XPTO]

Very happy so far guys, that Chaos Predator looks sweet, but is it me or those Plague Marines are all wielding missile launchers? four member missile squad of Plague Marines? if its a dedicated AV squad four ML is too much imo and Plague Marines don´t use ML do they? i thought they used bolters and melee weapons to spread disease but i can be wrong.

Edit:

@ Cortlendt

Here he is - Bloodcrusher

[LoneWolf666]

Man, those CSM are gorgeous. Even the hornless ones. Hopefully there will be more screenshots soon.

[CommissarRezail]

So, i wonder which epic demon will we get to use. Or can we use all 4 but one at a time.

Also if they adding 4 commanders, does this mean 4v4?.

[LoneWolf666]

Thank nurgle for that. It's bad enough now, but try to imagine all that whining if they tried to actualy make something revolutionary...

Indeed. Though I have to say, the current model of campaign COULD be good. It's not the idea that was bad, it was the execution. Hopefully they'll polish it in CR, they have given a fixed number of 20 missions so maybe they'll be more refined.

Very happy so far guys, that Chaos Predator looks sweet, but is it me or those Plague Marines are all wielding missile launchers? four member missile squad of Plague Marines? if its a dedicated AV squad four ML is too much imo and Plague Marines don´t use ML do they? i thought they used bolters and melee weapons to spread disease but i can be wrong.

Those are, in all likelyhood, purely campaign screenshots. Don't read too much into it. Altough they could select other unit as dedicated AV for it...

[stranger]

Wasn't the lack of land raiders and squiggoths enough of an indicator that a greater daemon of any kind is unlikely?

And no, don't try pointing me towards the avatar. If anything, it's proof that epic units are not needed...

[LoneWolf666]

And no, don't try pointing me towards the avatar. If anything, it's proof that epic units are not needed...

They have the Predator, don't they? What else do they need? It's unlikely it will be noticeably different to the SM Pred, which is an "ultimate unit" for the SM.

[CommissarRezail]

Blood thirster and deamon prince can fit on this map, just like the Avatar. Kinda unfair eldar the only ones getting epic units.


At any rate i hope they add 4v4 mode, so we can have epicaly large battles.

[FooF]

@ XPTO

You never know if the Plague Marines are upgraded or not.

Crazy thought for MP:

So the assumption is that there will be 4 Commanders for each Mark. There will be some "Undivided" units like basic CSM, cultists, Preds, Dreads, etc. that are shared between all Commanders but each Mark has 2-3 unique units. So, lets say you with a Chaos Lord (Khorne). You get Cultists, CSM and HB Devs in T1/1.5 but the "jump troop" is Bezerkers. In T2, you get the Dread, a few other unannounced units shared between all and the Bloodletter. Then, as a call-in, you get a Bloodthirster or some other Khorne demon. Rinse and repeat for all Marks.

Not quite a new "race" for each Mark but definite variation between the Commanders. It's nothing Relic hasn't done before (CoH Doctrines) so I'm tenuously optimistic that they swung for the fences and incorporate something like this.

[XPTO]

I sure hope they bring the four demons of Chaos, i mean why not? yes there is the Avatar already so it makes sense for more end tier units.

Edit:

@ FooF
Yeah it just reminded me that we could equip out tac squad in SP with the ML and all members would have one, so maybe its just for campaign here.

[CommissarRezail]

Only reason i don't see land raider and bane blade joining is because their shear horizontal size, more then anything else.

Since blood thirster and Avatar stand up ward they can easily get be on the map with out taking up half the map.

But bane Blade and Land raider would take up a ;p a good 15 percent of most maps space.

[XPTO]

Yeah i don´t see super heavies coming to play but the demons.. hell yes, and a demon can have bonuses for troops just like the Avatar does for the Eldar, makes perfect sense and the size is just the same as having Eldar vs Eldar fights.

[cube13]

@FooF
That's really interesting, however, I'd imagine that something like it would have to be mirrored for the rest of the races. Mostly for fairness reasons, because it changes the meta-game to a fairly large extent, as you're effectively picking a Chaos Doctrine before each battle.

So for SM, for example, you'd be able to choose between the vanilla shooty Blood Raven chapter(maybe with some more librarians or something psycher-related to reflect the lore) or another chapter like the CC and flamer oriented Salamanders.

[CommissarRezail]

XPTO: exactly man ;p it be just like that.

Just need to find epic units for ever one else, errr mini titans?

[Kharrak]

Well, here's a thought. As FooF suggests, Berzerkers replace jump troops. But, to make up for this, make berserkers immune to suppresion? (Still take full damage though).

It fits the fluff, and they still serve an anti-plat role somewhat.

[DeusImperator]

This expansion looks excellent so far.
-Continued campaign, with darkside meter?
-Chaos! With missile equiped Dread and Bloodletters.

So far, so good. IT looks great.

I hope SM get Chaplain and Librarian in either Campaign and/or Multiplayer.

[XPTO]

They would rape bases or retreating units like that no? they should have more courage but immunity i dunno.

Edit: maybe they can have a berzerk ability that works like you said.

[LoneWolf666]

More likely the faction-specific units will be featured as call-ins, so a Khorne Lord gets to summon Berzerkers etc.

[stranger]

@Rezail
I'm pretty sure the heavies weren't left out because of their size alone... There might be also the issue about them being too powerful for the size of the engagement? Which also includes the greater daemons. Remember that wtf moment of necrons getting a star god eating hope as their super unit? Considering dow2 scope, its about the same.

[FooF]

I don't think you'd need to mirror the "faction" part of Chaos across the other races. It introduces way too many variations for balance.

If Bezerkers were a "jump troop" replacement, I'd see them as having a "Frenzy-like" ability that Nobs give to Sluggas that allow them to temporarily become immune to suppression, probably with a speed boost. They'd still take full damage from HWT but they could close in.

Chaos Raptors still haven't been seen yet so maybe we won't have ASM clones...?

@ cube

The one thing it would introduce, however, is not really knowing what your opponent is doing. For example, if you go Chaos/Khorne and I go SM/FC, even without knowing what commander I am, you know what the SM army make up is. I, as SM, don't know if I'll be facing Bezerkers, Plague Marines, Noise Marines, Daemonettes, etc. If they're in the regular unit roster, it would give Chaos a decided edge in the intel department because until you see the Chaos Commander, you're in the dark over which Chaos faction you're fighting.

I honestly don't mind that, though. You'll undoubtedly see the Commander before any real decisions need to be made, especially in team games but even in 1v1, you generally see the enemy Commander before hitting 30 Power.

[Hamsterminator]

[Rant at you know who edited out by myself ]

ANYWAY.... I was going to make a few points on topic

Campaign- It has been said that the campaign will consist of 20 missions, therefore it is reasonable to assume that these will not be meta map missions like the original game (which had unlimited defence and attack missions on identical tilesets) and will infact be individual missions with unique objectives, and hopefully more than a handful of maps.

Chaos Predator and Marines- People have been a little worried that Chaos are just marines with spikes on. That may be the case visually, but if you take a closer look, its clear the two have a few differences.
The Predator (as I mentioned earler in the thread) does indeed have a bulldozer blade as I had predicted, so we can hope for some charge mechanic to mow down infantry (unlike the other two tanks currently in the game).
The Chaos Marines seem to have close combat weapons in many cases, so they wil either be better in close combat than their marine counterparts or possibly more flexible.
The Chaos dred has a missile launcher and a power claw, potentially meaning it is better at an anti vehicle role than its SM counterpart

[Kharrak]

@ FooF: Arrr, that be making more sense. Similar to how the Jump ability needs to recharge, the frenzy ability has to recharge.

[Troubleshooter]

Its for that reason alone, FooF, that I expect the order of battle to be somewhat more subdued than is being hoped for here.

I expect that daemons will be call in units, their breed tied to your commander/mark, and CSM will simply be spiky Tacs. Raps will be ASM clones with some "rage" ability thrown in. Marking a CSM squad will be the equivlent of adding a special weapon, the visual effects will likely be just that, for show.

If I get plague marines... I will dance a jig... but I rather expect to have CSM with flies swarming around them who get a 300 HP buff for picking "Mark of Nurgle".

To be honest, I am almost as excited to see gene stealers in the game as much as Chaos. I mean, they cant possibly leave them out for another year can they?

[Schmapdi]

How long I wonder until this is released? Mainly I'm curious if they've given up on the idea of single player DLC campaigns for the orks/eldar. Which will be dissapointing - especially as it appears we'll only be getting single player SM campaigns from the expansions :/

[Carl]

Poor Troubleshooter.

P.s. you changed your Avatar. YAY, no more spooky US presidents

For what it's worth thats my worry too, and it's why to be blunt, many peiople wanted Chaos, but not in the form of CSM. Where likly to end up with littile more than spiky tacs/ASM/Preds unless where very lucky.

If relic does pull it off then YAY. But otherwise there's going to be a lot of people feeling very cheeted...

[Hamsterminator]

I just listened to that Chaos Music soundtrack... and I gotto say- it's RUBBISH! lol

Sorry for that, but i'm quite into my music and was a little dissapointed by the DoW2 soundtrack and was hoping for some more effort being put into future ones. Here's hoping they sack their composer and find someone who isnt devoid of musical talent

I remember the days of playing computer games and vividly recalling the music that accompanied them (anyone ever play Red Alert or C&C, or even the old UFO enemy unknown!).
The DoW2 vanilla music score is something I could come up with on a keyboard, and this Chaos one is the same but with more choral reverb!

Think i'll be cranking up some Ozzy Osbourne or something for my demonic kicks while playing this

[FooF]

"Marks" as upgrades to basic units isn't something I had thought of Trouble, but is a way to do it.

What initially made me think of the sub-factions was, depending on commander, your CSM would be skinned to look like Plague, Rubric, Deamonettes, etc. but have no stat difference. It would be visual only. Then I realized how loudly the fanbase would cry out that some of the main differences between the Marks were homogenized into little more than decorators.

However, instead of a buildable Bezerker (or whatnot), your Commander choice would allow you to imbue basic units with that Commanders Mark to make them something different, like Plague Marines, etc. with Daemons as call-ins. Will we see any Greater Daemons? That's the question on my mind.

[Ifitmovesnukeit]

Huh, I thought the soundtrack of DoW2 was one of its most redeeming features- can't get enough of the SM theme or some of the Eldar tracks- I personally think they sound better extracted from the game than from the OST.

[Octopus Rex]

I really think people are letting their wishes get the better of them when they think there'll different roster lines up for different commanders. There'll be different call ins, sure, but different line-ups for each commander what be a load more work and more importantly would set a rather bold precedent that would overshadow the other races somewhat (eg why don't Eldar have different aspects available to different commanders). To be honest I will really be surprised if they even make four commanders like you guys are assuming.

Keep your dreams more realistic and you're much less likely to cries yourselves to sleep in disappointment when the game comes out.

[Hamsterminator]

can't get enough of the SM theme or some of the Eldar tracks

This is intriguing... as I have only ever heard one song on repeat in my version of the game. Wasnt aware there were different ones for Eldar or the other guys... Is my game broke?

[Kharrak]

I also LOVE the DoW2 soundtrack, and specifically the "For the Craftworld" audio piece.

Idunno, maybe you dislike orchestrated music?

[Ifitmovesnukeit]

Each of the factions only had one song in the beta, but that definitely changed at retail... you only have 1 song in total?

[Kharrak]

Hamsterminator:

Check out the DoW2 soundtrack, that was released for free. It has all the tracks, though in a format that can be listened to outside the game (in the game, the music changes depending on how much action is going on in screen).

http://community.dawnofwar2.com/blog...ack-released-0

[cube13]

@FooF:

Oh, I think I misunderstood where you were going with that. I was under the impression that in addition to the commander, you were choosing a Chaos faction(instead of choosing a chaos faction/commander at the same time).
EDIT: Was clarified, doesn't matter anymore.

[FooF]

@ Octo Rex

I'm not holding my breath for news that MP Chaos is actually pretty diverse but I find it even harder to believe that Relic isn't painfully aware that the Commander system is just begging to do Chaos justice. Ever since CoH, people have assumed that a Doctrine-style system for DoW would suit Chaos perfectly.

Now, that said, I also know time/budget constraints are powerful forces and the easy way out is probably more profitable. All I can hope for is that Relic/THQ pleasantly surprises us. I won't expect fully fleshed-out factions but a few Mark-specific units isn't out of the realm of possibility. My initial thought was a 2 Mark-specific units for each Commander. Yes, that's essentially adding half of a race when you think about 8 modeled/animated/voiced units that only appear for one race but it would go so far into making the game simply awesome.

We'll just have to see. I'm not blindly optimistic but I can't help but think that Relic knows how huge of an opportunity this is to shine and will jump at the chance to blow us away.

As for 4 commanders, I think the Librarian is the elephant in the room. There's no way they can hold out on him for another expansion.

[XPTO]

Octopus Rex said:

To be honest I will really be surprised if they even make four commanders like you guys are assuming.

But but... what about the Librarian, Relic said they had big plans for him and now comes Chaos so more psykers are needed against their sorcerers, makes sense imo, but hope is the first step...

[Hamsterminator]

I dunno, maybe you dislike orchestrated music?

Oh contrare my friend I love it! But I also have friends who write music and I can tell when something is done electronically or by a real orchestra. Unfortunately much (if not all) of the DoW2 music is synthetic orchestral (please correct me if i'm wrong). So it grates on me when all I hear is Drums and choral voices doing repetitive key changes.
But i'll keep my moans to myself Will have a delve into my DoW2 music and see if I can find out if anything's missing.

Edit: lol thanks for the link to the music Kharrak, ye I have heard much of this before- but bizzarely never noticed it being different songs before! I think it's because they all follow the same format. Heavy fast paced drums, staccato strings and the main tune done by choral synth. Could have done with a little more variation- but I agree I do like the Eldar pieces.

As an example of musical themes done well- Warcraft 3 is probably my fave for racial music- the orks grunt and realy on heavy drums, the humans are choral and patriotic, the Elves are like early 90s Enya natural choral. etc

[Kharrak]

Oh contrare my friend I love it! But I also have friends who write music and I can tell when something is done electronically or by a real orchestra. Unfortunately much (if not all) of the DoW2 music is synthetic orchestral (please correct me if i'm wrong). So it grates on me when all I hear is Drums and choral voices doing repetitive key changes.
But i'll keep my moans to myself Will have a delve into my DoW2 music and see if I can find out if anything's missing.

Nah, I actually understand perfectly. However, I will admit that I'm rather happy in my ignorance in this matter though, since it allows me to enjoy the music :P

On the topic of extra commanders...

Yip, Librarian is the one everyone is expecting.

For Orks, I would say the Oddboy is a good bet, or the Mad Dok.

For Tyranids, a Brood Lord or a Zoanthrope Alpha.

Eldar... yeah, they are the trickiest. An Autarch of some form may work, or a Harlequin.

[Octopus Rex]

@FooF - the librarian. I still think anything could happen - didn't they say they had "big plans for the librarian" or something smug like that? Do you think just wapping him there as the fourth commander counts as "big plans"? Or perhaps he's fully turned to the dark side and is the Chaos Sorceror now (in terms of plot or whatever). I dunno, we'll have to wait and see.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if they did 4 commanders and each had a different unit roster etc., but I'd also love it if DOW2 was 3D, hologrammatic and shot lazors in to my eyes - doesn't mean it's going to happen. Yeah, 4 factions is more likely than that, but I'm just not bothered about getting my hopes up - I feel like I'm at some evangelist, snake-bite healing session here with cries of "Prrraise the LAWD! The lawd is a-coming!! He told me so!! He told me he did! The rapture is almost upon ussss!! Oh please lawdy lawdy lawdy LAWD - please save me JEE-suz!!". Maybe it will be exactly as you say, who knows, but this thread just reminds me terribly of the DOW2 anticipation thread, stopping at Wishlist Central, Frustration Avenue, and terminating at Shattered Dreams Parkway with extra services to Righteous Indignation Hall on Sundays.

I think one of the thing at play here for me is also my dislike of the way the races were added in DOW1. Each races had some new gimmick that separated it from the early ones which made the old races look tired and dated. The new features and mechanics were hard to balance and cluttered up the game style unnecessarily in my opinion. As a modder I noticed this lots: by SS there was so many new mechanics - some subtle and under the hood, some obvious for all to see - that you just so tempted to go back and re-work the original races in much more interesting ways. I'm not against them adding new mechanics and features and such, I just want the races to feel equally well treated, to use ALL the mechanics at their disposal in the most appropriate manner.

[stranger]

To be honest, I am almost as excited to see gene stealers in the game as much as Chaos. I mean, they cant possibly leave them out for another year can they?

Am I the only one here that thinks adding a melee dedicated light unit to a race that has 3 of them in the first tier alone kinda redundant?

EDIT:
@Octopus Rex
Amen brother.

[Ifitmovesnukeit]

To be fair we don't really have closeups of the chaos marines, although it's obvious that from a distance they're very similar- the HB guys even have the big belt feeds of normal SM instead of the more exposed version they're usually seen holding.

However, if this similarity gives them more time to work on the physics- ragdolls, walls etc- then I'm all for it. I mean, they do look very similar, yes, but I'm not really sure how else I expected them to look.

[@li3n]

Another SM campaign... oi Relic, it's getting a bit tedious. Hopefully we'll get some CSM stuff in it too with the corruption thing they mentioned.

BTW, any signs of us getting some of those campaigns for other races they mentioned before the game was released?