Results 1 to 33 of 33

Eldar in 5th: A Tactica and Review by Xenith [UPDATED 01 Feb 10]

  1. #1
    Member Xenith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    UK

    Eldar Eldar in 5th: A Tactica and Review by Xenith [UPDATED 01 Feb 10]

    So, Ive been thinking about doing a tactica for a while, and after a lot of work writing the following instead of coursework, I present to you:

    Eldar in 5th: A Tactica and Review by Xenith

    Introduction
    The Eldar army is a swift and deadly force, with ease, able to wipe out all opposition before it, yet, for all their might, the Eldar are a dying race, and mismanagement on your behalf will result in terrible losses: The Eldar are a finesse army, and will greatly reward the player who can wield them correctly.

    The best Autarchs will tell you that the key to success with the Eldar is synergy: The army must work together as one to achieve their goals. Unlike Space Marines, where every single unit can excel in any situation due to the high versatility and quality of the individual, Eldar are highly specialised; each unit will outperform their enemies in a particular style of warfare, and if caught off guard, the army will survive about as long as a fish out of water (and no, not one of those Stygian land fish).

    To become a successful autarch: You must know the tools of destruction you can wield. You must know the quality of the troops you command. You must know the best tactics to use for any chosen army. With this in mind, this tactica will be broken down into several sections, each dealing with themes and understanding needed to become a successful general:

    Know your weapons:
    Discussion of the weaponry of the Eldar: Its strengths, limitations, and applications.

    Know your Forces:
    A detailed run down of Eldar unit types, what they should be used for, and what they are capable of achieving, along with tactics specific to that unit.

    Know your strategy:
    You may have some of the finest troops at your disposal, but they will achieve nothing if you have no plan of attack. This section covers strategies available to the Eldar, both in individual unit terms, and army wide terms, complete with sample army lists. This section assumes strong knowledge of the previous sections, so as to save space by cutting repetition.


    Know Your Weapons


    Know Your Forces



    Know Your Strategy



    Lots more to come. The formatting is a pain, so Ill be updating a few things at a time. If you have any preferences as to what comes next, ie, unit types,weapons, sections, etc., shout it out!

    As always, feedback is very welcome...

    Xen.
    Last edited by Xenith; 5th Jul 10 at 4:46 PM.
    Eldar in 5th Ed. A Tactica, by Xenith

    "Give a man a match and he will be warm for a day. Set him on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life" - Terry Pratchett

    "That logic wouldn't apply to Space Marines because they are not hollow." - CFoley

  2. #2
    Member Karon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    The Drakwald
    Very nice.

    I would like to hear your opinion on Shining Spears.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hirmetrium
    Karon, you fucking rock man
    Quote Originally Posted by Gazi
    fag eldar, holy fag marines, this(Relic) fags, imba fags, fag ig, fag game, fags

  3. #3
    Member Xenith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    UK
    Thanks Karon! Update for you:

    Updated with:EML; Shining Spears; Fire Prims; some eldar terminology. Edited format.

    Note that the shining spears is a first draft, and may be revised at a later date! This pretty much covered their battlefied usage, but Ill do a bit on wargear/powers, too!

    Xen

  4. #4
    Member Avatar 720's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    That super-top-secret-base over there... the one with the giant statue of me...
    Are there going to be any entries on Swooping Hawks? Or are they really just the epitome of 'useless'? I've never seen or heard of them being used more effectively than potshotting stuff with grenade packs and Skyleaping, so i'm curious to see if anyone has any other uses for them.

    Apart from that, I think it's a nice little tactica, clear, simple and precise, which is what a tactica should be.
    Chaos Scores:
    Wins:7/Draws: 2/Losses: 3

    Tau Scores:
    Wins:5/Draws: 1/Losses: 0

  5. #5
    Member Xenith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    UK
    Thanks! And yup, Swooping Hawks are on their way

    I make it clear that while they arent the most 'efficient' of units, you can still have fun with them, and how to do it!

  6. #6
    Member Evil-Termite's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    I think the most important thing you can do is give us combinations of units that have synergy.

  7. #7
    Member godsvendtetta7's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    on a base
    ...shining spears are T4, other than that it a great start!!! Very straight forward, I like it
    "He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it"
    Eldrad Ulthran, Farseer of Ulthwe
    "We bring only death, and leave only carrion. It is a message even a human can understand"
    Reqiel of the Sons of Fuegan

  8. #8
    Member Xenith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    UK
    Thanks, GV, fixed to T3(4), although it doesnt affect the point I was making, as the AC still wounds on a 2+, accuracy is the aim!

    More soon...

  9. #9
    Member Avatar 720's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    That super-top-secret-base over there... the one with the giant statue of me...
    The AC also still instagibs, as bikes don't confer the extra toughness when it comes to Insant Death via a hit with strength that is double your toughness.

  10. General Discussions Senior Member Dawn of War Senior Member  #10
    Oppressive Forces of Titty n0z3k1ll3r's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Just wanted to point out that 0.056% chance to kill an AV12 or up vehicle with a Guardian Brightlance is way, way, way off. It's closer to 6%, so I'm assuming you forgot to adjust for percentages.
    Let's Play Europa Universalis 3: Divine Wind
    Let's Play Master of Magic: Abandoned
    In the beginning there was nothing. Then Steam crashed.

  11. #11
    Member Eldanesh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Everyday I'm shufflin.
    A great start. Thought I would point out though that you can get BS4 brightlances by putting them on Wraithlords.
    Second wave - DIIIIIIVVVVE!!!

  12. #12
    Member Xenith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    UK
    Ah, thanks for the mathhammer catch, Noz, I did forget to convert it to percentage, thats the raw probability! Point still stands, though, 5% to kill AV12 or greater for that points costs just isnt worth it, imo.

    Also, thanks Eldanesh, Ill be getting round to the big guys soon, theyre one of the few places that I feel the lance is viable, Ill edit the BL section to factor this in.

  13. #13
    Member warchitect's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Ive been building an army of eldar too.

    Im working on making 3 warwalkers. one with scatter lasers. One with Starcannons, and one with bright lances. I read what you wrote on the BL's but still im gonna field em.
    Its that or all scatter lasers for the heavy 24 shots count, but still; 2 scatters for 8 shots plus 4 total shots of starcannon, then two shots from the Bl's for no save and armour penetration. thats still 14 total shots with power...

    what do you think of em. I would love to hear.

  14. #14
    Member Xenith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    UK
    Warchitect, one rule with the eldar is that they specialise well, but if you try to generalise, you lose out (as with most specialist equipable units in 40k...)

    Your combo of scatter lasers, starcannons and bright lances, is, no offence, pretty bad. Youre combining anti light infantry with anti heavy infantry with anti tank (expensive anti tank), guaranteeing youself only one thing. No matter what you shoot at, 2/3 of your warwalkers will be wasting their time. which is sucky.

    Take this, for example.

    Your unit shoots at a 5 man unit of assault termies. say, mixed, with 3th/ss, 2 with TLC, to give you a chance.

    The unit you say, 2lances, 2cannon, 2scatters:
    you get 4 scatter hits, one starcannon hit, and one lance hit. They all wound. Then with wound allocation, all the scatter hits go on lightening claw guys, who should save them all, and then the cannon and lance shots go on TH/SS guys, who will, generally, save both. Maybe...maybe...one will die, meaning your lotsofpoints unit is wasted.


    Compare to 6x scatters. 24shots. 12 hits. 10 wounds. 1 kill. Exactly the same (if not better) result, for a fraction of the cost.

    or 6 lances/starcannons: 3 hits. 3 wounds. 1 kill.

    no matter how you slice it, equipping them all the same is the best.

    Decide what you want your warwalkers to do. What kind of enemy can the rest of your army not deal with? got lots of anti infantry in avengers and banshees? no dragons? get some lances on there.

    As ever, guide the warwalkers!

    That changes scatters to: 6 scatter, 24 shots, 18 hits, 15 wounds, 2kills. 100% more kills.

    I would say, imo, the best 'take all comers' loadouts for a warwalker are either all scatters, or all missile launchers. Both are capable of dealing with infantry and light vehicles. Then the EML can switch to krak to give most things a scare, 6 guided krak missiles is 4 hits, which is a reasonable chance to glance AV14.

    Both will also be very good for dealing with the new nids, if MCs are limited to 3+ saves - 4 krak missile will ruin a MCs day, as will 18 scatter hits on a doomed carnie (13 wounds, 4failed saves.)

    Hope that helps!

    Xen

  15. #15
    Member warchitect's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Question before I reply. Whats a TH/SS? and how do they get a save from a lance AP2 and S-cannon also AP2? (i just can't figure out what a th/ss is lol) I mean if one can't score unsavable hits with a BL or SC, whats the use of em?

    And for the most part I agree with what your saying about having all the team the same weaps. If I did that I would definitely use EML for the combo shot choice. I guess what I really want to do is have the ability to field ONE war walker, or three warwalkers and still not paint a million weapons to swap out all the time. having a little variety. M

  16. Space Marine Senior Member Company of Heroes Senior Member  #16
    Black Scottish Cyclops Brother Wolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Thunderhammer/Stormshield terminators. Current C: SM affords these bad boys a 3+ Invulnerable save, making them the most durable tarpit in the game. 66% change to save against anything you can dish out.
    W00T! Yarrgh-book 2010 (shameless)

    TT on C-A-D,
    01Dec to 15Dec '10 (most current story arc)
    06Feb, 26Mar to 29Mar '08. Bowling ball, FTW!
    30Oct to 11Nov '06
    Warning: Forum, LOL.

  17. #17
    Member Avatar 720's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    That super-top-secret-base over there... the one with the giant statue of me...
    TH/SS means the ThunderHammer and StormShield Terminators usually employed by the foolish Imperial forces as means of combatting hard targets. Thunderhammers are the in-between weapons of powerfists and chainfists, dealing heavy damage to MCs like powerfists but also causing larger amounts of damage than them to vehicles, but not as much as chainfists. What you really need to worry about, though, are the storm shields, that give them a 3+ invulnerable save. It means you're left facing a squad of 2+/3++ models.

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Rule Britannia!
    One thing I find works very well with Eldar is to build an army in chunks. Instead of piecing it together squad-by-squad, work out two or three units that will work together first, and add them to the army as a single addition.

    Secondly, a point on Runes of Witnessing; yes, they do make Perils more likely, but bear in mind Farseers have both a Ghosthelm and an invulnerable save, meaning the overall chance of taking a wound is somewhere in the 20% range, assuming you actually roll snake eyes in the first place. Somewhat less than terrifying.

    Also, a bit more on Shining Spears.

    Shining Spears are, like most Eldar units, a niche choice. Their role of choice can best be described as "big-nasty-thing killer". They can apply a reasonable amount of high-strength power weapon attacks in a very small area. They should primarily be concerned with hunting monstrous creatures and enemy characters- particularly those without Eternal Warrior, if their Exarch has a Star Lance. I have a personal friend whose Shining Spear Exarch has racked up quite the tally of slain characters in this manner.

    But more than that, Shining Spears are your premier option for annihilating Monstrous Creatures. An expensive option, to be sure, but certainly effective. They have the mobility to hit the necessary target, and the punch to knock out most monstrous creatures in a single turn, where similar competing options, such as Fire Dragons, can only really have one; a Wave Serpent will give you mobility, but for the cost will drastically limit the number of shots, making a confirmed kill iffy, while a large squad of footsloggers is vulnerable.

    While you did mention it, I also feel I must stress the Shining Spears ability to kill tanks. While not necessarily reliable, the fact is they can; effective generalization is rare in this game, among the Eldar especially, and should be applauded where found.

    Finally, as an excessively minor point, it should be noted that Shining Spears are easier to provide psychic support for than many competing options, most of whom are shooting units. When assaulting a monstrous creature, the best power to support them with is undoubtedly Doom (since Guide does not work in assault), which, with its much longer range, allows the Shining Spears to roam free across the battlefield, compared to many shooting units which, while not inefficient on their own, must stay very close to a Farseer if they desire effective aid, given that Guide is probably the most efficient option to support them due to the Eldar's prevailing BS of 3.
    Last edited by Imrix; 15th Dec 10 at 8:30 AM.
    Honour can be regained. Lives cannot. The one is not worth the other.

  19. #19
    Member warchitect's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Yes, thanks for the blurb on shinnin spears. They are cool. I don't own any, or tanks for that matter.....so my army is getting built peacemeal. Im still buying/aquiring and painting.

    In fact my list (full painted, presentation level only) right now is.

    Avatar,
    dire avengers
    howling banshees
    warp spiders.
    swooping hawks.

    im painting my walkers now, so thats why im askin about em. But back to me! :-P

    It seems to me that the terminator assault team, while freakishly powerful needs to get in range to even do damage. So if you deep strike the squad of war walkers and get em trapped in close combat, then you would rip a three team apart. but if you had to travel across the table, then the 36" ranges on the weapons, and enough hits with the BL and SC will still take you down before you bring the hammers to bear.

    and I appreciate the statistical math. me likes workin the numbers too.

  20. #20
    Member Xenith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    UK
    Even traversing across a 36" table, with run, the termies will get into combat, on average, in turn 4, at which point, with your loadout, youll have killed 4 of them, if you went first. What you have to think about is the landraider that those termies will be in.

    EDIT: Added:

    Know Your Weapons:
    Fusion Gun
    Las Blaster
    Scatter Laser
    Shuriken Catapult/Pistol


    Know Your Forces:
    Guardian Jetbikes
    Howling Banshees


    Know Your Strategies:
    "Now you see me"
    "On second thought, Ill stay in here"
    "Psychic Tanks"
    Last edited by Xenith; 1st Feb 10 at 5:49 PM.

  21. #21
    Member warchitect's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    But thats kinda what I'm saying Xenith, With the BL's on board the land raider is still also gonna take punishment instead.

  22. #22
    Member Avatar 720's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    That super-top-secret-base over there... the one with the giant statue of me...
    Brightlances that aren't WL mounted aren't the best accuracy-wise. Needing 4s to hit anything, and then a further 5-6 to penetrate, followed by another 5-6 to wreck it/blow it if he hasn't obscured himself using terrain or smoke launchers... It isn't worth the trouble really. Let Fragons or Wraithlords take care of the heavy tanks whilst you use every EML in your arsenal to wreck the littleuns and pin what you can.

  23. #23
    Member Xenith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    UK
    But thats kinda what I'm saying Xenith, With the BL's on board the land raider is still also gonna take punishment instead.
    Youre still missing my point, with only two BS3 lances in that unit, nothing much is happening to that land raider. you get 1 hit/turn, which does nothing 50% of the time, as Avatar describes above. Statistically, yes, your warwalker with 2 lances will destroy a land raider if it shoots the raider every turn for 6 turns (but with 1/3 of games ending on turn 5, you arent even guaranteed this) , but a squad of dragons will do it in one.

    by swapping the loadout of your warwalkers (2BL, 2SC, 2SL - iirc, comes to ~240pts) for 6SL (~180pts), you save 60pts. find 20pts from somewhere, and you have a squad of fire dragons too. Now you can pop the land raider and mow down the occupants.

    The point Im making is, that every eldar unit has a role, and trying to make them be able to do everything will see them doing nothing.

    To shamelessly quote myself:

    The army must work together as one to achieve their goals. Unlike Space Marines, where every single unit can excel in any situation due to the high versatility and quality of the individual, Eldar are highly specialised; each unit will outperform their enemies in a particular style of warfare, and if caught off guard, the army will survive about as long as a fish out of water (and no, not one of those Stygian land fish).
    You can give each walker in a unit different weapons to be able to damage different targets, but remember that when shooting a target, only one in 3 walkers will have the right tools to actually do lasting damage, meaning 2/3 of your unit does nothing. You would not go into a game and do nothing with 2/3 of your units, would you?

  24. #24
    Member Xenith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    UK
    Added:

    Know Your Weapons:
    Shuriken Cannon
    Spinnerette Rifle
    Star Cannon
    VibroCannon


    Know Your Forces:
    [I]Fire Dragons
    Swooping Hawks[I]

    Know Your Strategies:
    "Riposte"
    "Rubberhawks"
    "Seercouncil"

  25. #25
    Member Karon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    The Drakwald
    Mhm, very nice.

    I agree on the Vibro Cannon, its pretty much useless unless its a glance hit per thing.

  26. #26
    Member Xenith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    UK
    Yea, in 4th they were pretty good, a few pts for a guaranteed glance a turn was ok return, but with TLOS, they can be targetted easier...

  27. #27
    In my opinion, I think you are over-emphasising Fire Dragons and selling Bright Lances a little short in terms of ranged Anti-Tank.

    A Bright Lance may only stand a 1 in 6 chance to pentrate heavy armour, but has an equal chance to glance. Against Ordinance tanks, shaking or stunning the crew or blowing out the main cannon is a decent result, and on a transport destroying its running gear makes it ineffectual in its main role.

    Fire Dragons may stand a better chance of destroying a vehicle under optimal conditions, but setting up those conditions with 6" range guns is much harder than wheeling a bright lance within a couple of feet of tabletop of the target.

    Also, at T3 with a 4+ save, they generally cannot complete the job alone if they get their transport chopped out from underneath them and when I see them used, they usually have a massive bullseye painted on them - particularly if they are the main Anti-Tank threat in the army or they are facing MEQ troops.

    Another point in slight favour of Lances is that they are available to units from a variety of force allocation slots, whereas Fire Dragons are only available from Elite force choices. This is significant because it places your dedicated anti-tank troops in the same force category as your dedicated close-combat troops, a choice not forced by most army lists (most have melee troops in Elites or Fast Attack and Anti-Tank in Heavy Support).

    I would argue that a mix of Lance weapons and Fire Dragons is a better combination than going all-out for Fire Dragons. With the lances capable of engaging from turn 1, it applies instant pressure on enemy armoured assets and removes the need to rush the deployment of the Fire Dragons to provide any threat. If the only AT threat is the Dragons, the enemy can concentrate on neutralizing them before they get a chance to come into range.

  28. #28
    Member Avatar 720's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    That super-top-secret-base over there... the one with the giant statue of me...
    Bearing in mind that 5 Fire Dragons plus a Wave Serpent with EMLs and Spirit stones comes in at 210pts (That's for 5 BS4 meltaguns plus a transport that can't get stunned, counts shots over S8 as S8 when fired at the front or side armours, and shots that hit the front or side armours can only ever get 1 D6 of penetration) and 1 unit guardians with a brightlance comes in at 110pts (that's for 10 BS3 models with worse armour saves, no transport whatsoever and a single brightlance) I would take the dragons every time.

    I also doubt the lances are capable of engaging from turn 1 unless they're placed at the fore-front of your deployment zone, having only a 36" range puts them at an immediate disadvantage, as everything with a range of over that can hit you before you hit them. A classic example is a railgun, a submunition shot can strike you from double your range and do horrific amounts of damage, whereas a solid shot will be as effective as a krak missile against a wave serpent, needing 3s to hit and 4s to glance the front or side armours.

    The lance has it's place, but so do fire dragons, and currently, fire dragons hold a more valued place than lances, for a lance to be as effective, you need multiple teams, and two lance teams already makes you more expensive than the fire dragon set-up I mentioned earlier, coming in at 220pts for two BS3 platforms that are hitting and glancing most things on 4s.

    Doing the maths doesn't help, you have a 50% chance to miss and a 50% chance to do no damage whatsoever, whereas with fire dragons, you have a 44% chance of missing, a 50% chance of doing nothing to AV12 at 12", 66% chance to AV13 and an 82% chance against AV14... but at 6", those chances of doing nothing are dramatically decreased, with only 2 rolls capable of doing nothing to AV12 (snake eyes and 1 + 2), 4 against AV13 (the same as before along with 1 + 3 and 2+2) and only 5 rolls against AV14 (same as before along with 1 + 4 and 2+3).

    The benefits of using FDs greatly outweigh the risks, whilst brightlance platofrms have a good chance of doing sod all for the whole game, FDs have a good chance of taking something out.

  29. #29
    I suggest you reread what I wrote - I am not arguing that Lances just need to be waved in the general direction of enemy armour to make it blow up or that they are superior to Fire Dragons overall. I am simply saying from my experience that they do have certain advantages and that a mix of the two will get better results than just maxing out Fire Dragon squads without a second thought.

    I would also point out once again that Bright Lances come on a variety of mounts. You said stuff them in Guardian squads, not me - I would rate Guardians as a total waste of time as an AT unit. If I wanted purely Lances and had to buy a unit to hold them, for 210 points, I could take three Vipers. They can certainly engage targets more than 36" away on the first turn and don't need to be left dangling in the open before they are used. However, I could also just consider tacking Bright Lances to the roof of a Wave Serpent I expect to disgorge troops early instead of EMLs - that gives me an extra, ranged anti-tank threat without the need for an entire unit built around the lances.

    Your mathematical analysis is skewed, as it entirely omits a band of effectiveness between 13" and 36" where the Bright Lance sits at around 25% chance to do something to exactly 0% for the Fire Dragons. Sure, the Dragons might be a dead cert to smash up a vehicle, but if that vehicle has moved to position and made its big shot or disgorged its troops, that becomes irrelevant. Sometimes, having a chance of throwing a spanner in the works early is better than wrecking the machine once it has finished doing its job.

  30. #30
    Member godsvendtetta7's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    on a base
    don't forget about warwalkers which can scout then move, and they can have 4 bright lances at less points then both of those squads. i believe that's a 66% chance of immobilizing a landraider or better, not counting glances. don't get me wrong, i field 2-3 of the firedragon combo that avatar pointed out and i think that's 10Xs better (combo this with star engines and 2 autarchs out of reserves and damn!!!!). but don't forget about ALL of the eldar's toys.

  31. #31
    Member Xenith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    UK
    Lastoption: Thanks for the input! Sorry if it seems like Im selling BLances short, but maybe thats just because I havent got around to writing stuff about the most common lance platforms? :P

    I do agree that lances have a place in the army, but also that if you really need something killed, you need dragons to do it, as lances just dont cut the mustard. As I think Ive said before, vs av12, the lance is outperformed by the eml, and against av>12, its outperformed by dragons. Yes, I agree that dragons are vulnerable in the run up, but the dragons wave serpent has just as much chance of being blown up as another vehicle lance platform, right?

    Originally posted by lastoption:
    Your mathematical analysis is skewed, as it entirely omits a band of effectiveness between 13" and 36" where the Bright Lance sits at around 25% chance to do something to exactly 0% for the Fire Dragons.
    I would have to disagree with this, as the serpent that the dragons are in extends their range to 18", or 24" sans melta.

    Also dont forget that with lances, the opponent has an opportunity to hide from your long range guns. That just doesnt exist with a Fragon assault, as you are the one doing the agressive positioning.

    I would also aregue that for 210pts, your unit of vypers is also a waste: youre mouting a gun that is almost the same price as the tank, making al hell of an expensive unit. Although I would like to try it a few times.

    I do feel that the best option for long range anti tank is 6xBL warwalkers, but then you need a fardeer to guide them...and even then, a kills isnt guaranteed: 6 guided shots = 4 hits = less than two penetrating hits = less than one wrecked result.

    Again, with warwalkers, if scouting, or outflanking, then youre more likely to be hitting side armour, in which case the lance rule is, again, wasted, making EML the superior choice.

    Also regarding avatars choice of guardians as a platform: this is something that I wouldnt advocate: As I mention, guardians should not be toting expensive single shot weaponry.

    Basically, with the lances, use dragons for what you need to be killed. Use lances on the less important stuff thats av13 (pretty much only preds and heads), or if the opponent is spamming AV14 (guard, raider rush). By al means, make sure that dragons are not your only source of anti tank.

    Good Lance platforms are wraithlords and wave serpents.

  32. #32
    I agree with much of what you are saying. It's not that you haven't covered the Lance-toting units, it was this bit from the Bright Lance write-up that prompted me to post. It can infer Dragons over Lances at all costs.

    Against AV13/14, you should be using the more effective fire dragons. Against AV12, the lance performs as well as the EML, but for an extortionate amount of points. Id say avoid the lances.
    Your opponent can hide from Lances. You can play this to your advantage, and mitigate his tanks impact by making him unwilling to bring them into the open. Because the Dragons have a comparatively short range, if they are your main threat, your enemy can afford to sit his big guns in the wide open for optimum LoS as he knows he has a turn or two before the Dragons arrive.

    Also, if you treat the Fire Dragons as having an 18"/24" range, then you equally have to factor in the common Bright Lance platforms also get to move before shooting, putting their range somewhere between 42 and 48".

    The unit of Vypers was just to illustrate that Guardians are nowhere near the optimal choice for the points - as I said, "If I wanted purely Lances and had to buy a unit to hold them...". It's unlikely I would buy a unit purely for Lance firepower, I would be more likely to fit one or two in as a secondary weapon. I agree that the Wraithlord is
    a good candidate, as he can shoot whilst moving into a threatening position and is fairly sturdy.

  33. #33
    Member Xenith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    UK
    Your opponent can hide from Lances. You can play this to your advantage, and mitigate his tanks impact by making him unwilling to bring them into the open. Because the Dragons have a comparatively short range, if they are your main threat, your enemy can afford to sit his big guns in the wide open for optimum LoS as he knows he has a turn or two before the Dragons arrive.
    Good stuff, I like it.

    As for the BL section, yea, maybe I went a bit over the top. I think it may be just the size of tables my GW play on, 4'x4', meaning it isnt really hard to send the dragon nuke at a tank. Usually a turn 2 kill.

    Expect an edit at some point.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •