Dawn of War 2: Codex Edition

[Fallschirmjager]

@ Fulcaris - Space Marines are supposed to field the lowest amount of troops, and they are currently the most rigged. only another space marine player can kill a marine player

Alrightey, with a lot of testing here are my suggestions:

Overall

Decrease all infantry's capabilities to do 2-3 hit kills on vehicles. Especially high cost vehcles such as Predators.

Decrease amount of supression recieve at long range

Increase Turret Health (Includes Tech Marine Turret Hp and Mekboy Turret Hp)

Increase Pop Cap of Tyranids by 40ish, Orks 30ish, and Eldar 10ish.

Space Marines
Global: Reduce zeal cost of summonable Terminators from 650 to 500 (Applies to Force Commander's summonable Terminators as well)

Global: As you said, increase amount of time training/upkeep etc. However, i recommend increasing the amount of time training by 1/4, and increasing upkeep marginally, and also setting the max req rate to 325.

Global: For all vehicles, perhaps add the Power of the Machine Spirit ability. During the duration of this ability, the vehicle fires faster, and takes reduced damage, but moves slower. Or perhaps just give the Techmarine something that buffs Vehicles offensively/defensively (other than that Blessing of the Omnissiah)

Terminators: Fix their 130% damage against vehicles. However, keep them moderately effective against vehicles. After all, they DO have Thunder Hammers

Tech Marine: Fix the NORANGE bug on the Powered Shot ability

Scouts: Keep their upkeep lower then Tacs and Devs, fix their Cleansing Flame ability.
Increase power drainage using infiltration WITHOUT a Sergeant. Possibly have a Chainsword/Bolt Pistol melee Scout Squad.

Space Marine Drop Pod: Perhaps decrease the Zeal cost of the Drop Pod to 250.

Scouts Contd.: Decrease the damage of their Sniper Rifles vs Heavy Infantry

Devestators: Decrease suppression capabilities

Assault Marines: Round off power cost to 50. Slightly increase health.

Razorback: Change projectile to be the same as Dev's heavy bolter projectile

Vanguard Marines: Decrease their capabilities to kill vehicles in several seconds, but keep them moderately effective.

Sternguard Marines: Possibly add a weaker version of infilitration?

Predator: Decrease accuracy of it's autocannon, change the sponson heavy bolters projectiles to match those of the Devestator heavy bolter projectile
Note: If the Predator is shooting at close range, the autocannon projectile sort of freezes in mid air, u see it for 1 frame and then it explodes. looks rather bad imo

Orks

Lootas: NERF THEM. Only allow two members of the squad to carry heavy weapons, set a 2 limit on them, something. ATM 4 orks carrying something resembling an automatic lascannon is ripping through space marines

Looted Predator (Yes, its a Pred not a Leman Russ): Suggest making it's autocannon fire faster.

Killa Kan: Possibly increase health a tad?

(Havent really played as Ork against other people enough for a complete review)

Eldar:

Global: Make Eldar less swarmy while dealing more damage

Guardians: Decrease Shuriken Cannon's ability to insta supress

Stormguardians: Theyre listed as melee units but they use their invisible(?) shuriken pistols as their primary weapon

Dire Avengers: Give them more wargear options to counter vehicles or make them dedicated to slaughtering infantry

Banshees: Add more wargear options i.e. executioners (they were in the campaign i believe) Make them slightly more durable.

Far Seer: Fix Psychic Storm's overpowerdness

Rangers: Possibly make Sniper Rifles a wargear. They would start out as a Scout/light melee specialist until you upgrade to Sniper Rifles.

Wraithlord: Increase health?

(Not really a complete review, played Eldar only a few times)

Tyranids
Global: Fix enemies ability to gain Zeal/Waagh/Psychic Powers from stolen Synaptic Generators

'Gaunts (Horma n Terma): Increase squad sizes, decrease cost to 250 req, increase fodder death return to 70%

Warriors: Decrease Price from 500 req to 400 req. Possibly decrease their overall stats as well.

Not sure which Tyranid unit this is (fairly sure its warrior) but a 4 man squad armed with Spore Mine launchers deal insta supression. Reduce this.

Zoanthrope: Either increase the cost or decrease it's damage. ATM it can one shot kill around 2-3 guys. Rarely misses. Can take out one Seer Council member in one hit. Perhaps knockback and deal less damage?

Carnifexs: Change the ucs for all of them. They currently either use Carnifex or Screamer Killer as their name. Are the two melee Carnifex's the same? Does the Carnifex's Regenerate ability increase in power as it levels up?
Increase cost of all the Fex's upgrades slightly.

Lictor: Perhaps move him to Tier 2?

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

Ah that's the Warrior Venom squad with Deathspitters. I noticed that too lol. Suppression will be addressed .

I want the Lictor in Tier 1 because he's a great commander hunter. Nids suffer from being obvious about their troop movements, and the lictor gives you the option of sneaking around and flesh hooking a sergeant or commander into the swarm. Lictors right now deal lots of damage but aren't that tough, and 2 scout squads can gun one down if they ff on him for a few seconds. The lictor only gets light infantry armor, he's just an offensive powerhouse; a warrior brood will beat him in melee and cost the same (once I adjust the costs).

[Mr-Benis]

As a very dedicated Eldar player I'll give some suggestions too.

Guardian Defenders: currently little incentive to build the starcannon, brightlance or d-cannon turrets. Turrets are also very expensive. Remove grenades from this squad.

Storm Guardians: need to default to melee attacking, currently they use ranged attacks which is not their purpose.

Rangers: possibly too cheap. Adjust price to 400/20 and lower their rate of fire slightly.

Banshees: haven't felt compelled to build many of this squad citing lack of effectiveness. Ranged units within the eldar army are VERY strong, it's unlikely you'd need banshees.

Dire avengers: do not have grenades. This should be removed.

Warp spiders: have an unclear battlefield function. If they are meant to be anti-horde then perhaps they should have a higher damage against poor armour types. Haywire grenade is also supposed to do damage to vehicles. Haywires currently need manual targeting, hotkey doesn't work.

Wraithlord: currently VERY fast. Suggest lowering speed and giving a bit more health/armour, to bring home the T8/3+ they are meant to have.

Falcon: currently pretty cheap for how much damage it does. Review its cost? Perhaps change to 400/75 or 350/90.

Fireprism: haven't used this enough to get a clear picture.

Seer council: should be a global power only, for the farseer. The other heroes could take a different jump troop to compensate, ie hawks (anti-horde).

Avatar: as always, too expensive. 800/200 is probably still too expensive.

I haven't played any other faction yet, I prefer to master one thing before moving on to another (sound familiar?) so at the very least I can give very in depth info about this one team.

[DeusImperator]

I suggest that you go back to the 1.0 tyranid squads. Like 1 carnifex squad, and 1 warrior squad.
Screamer killers and Venom broods are just an upgrade that take up a build slot.
Perhaps later you could add the new tyranid Pyrowore or what was it name. I think it looks like just as a Barbed Strangled carnifex, and is a bio-hellhound in combat.

[Steel*Faith]

Lootas: NERF THEM. Only allow two members of the squad to carry heavy weapons, set a 2 limit on them, something. ATM 4 orks carrying something resembling an automatic lascannon is ripping through space marines

Looted Predator (Yes, its a Pred not a Leman Russ): Suggest making it's autocannon fire faster.

No way these changes are too cool (IMO). If the damage of lootaz is too much, then reduce it a bit then. The Looted Tank uses the Predator Chasis, but the weaponry isn't the same. Not to mention making the two units more alike just makes them less unique.

As for the Carnifexes, i'd change it back to the way the Fex was in 1.3.

[MarkDawg]

@Fallschirmjager I was in a 2v2 we were both SM's and we were kicking ass until Zoan+Screamerkiller came out on the field these units wiped us out and we lost it's very possible for other races to win Vs SM.

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

I read something online about a pyrovore... is the new Tyranid codex out? I would like to see a copy before I change the nids lineup. Rest assured, all new "official" nid lifeforms will make it to Codex Edition.

[Fallschirmjager]

the only time i've lost with SM was a 1v1 against Gorgutz, he was eldar and his rangers got me suprised. next game i just countered with infilitrating flamer/shotgun scouts. Fex's are rather easy to counter if you got the right equipment. If youre not on Tier 2 yet and they teched up earlier, your kind screwed. Heavy Bolter Vengeance rounds might help, but i havent really used those. If you are at Tier 2, just slap meltas on your Tac squads, drop in a dreadnought, Rocket Launchers on your Devs. 2 Dreadnoughts can drop a Fex in 3-4 hits a believe. Zoanthropes are best taken out with Assault troops imo, jump in and wack that thing to death.

the problem with lootas is that ALL 4 members of the squad have an automatic lascannon type thing. and since you can field more than 2, you have a clear advantage over the SM devestator squads, which carry only 2 heavy weapons and are capped at 2 per player.
this came from a 3v3 on Argus Desert Gate. 3 SM vs 3 Orks. We were pushing well until those damn lootas popped out and wiped the floor clean of about half my troops. i tried to do some flanking manuevers but they were EVERYWHERE. i think the only thing that saved us were Terminators + stupid rushes by orks into our territory to capture our 2 VPs.


Avatar at 800/200? i've never seen an avatar on field, so i wouldnt know how strong it would be.

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

Yeah I am gong to keep the lootas visuals. If the damage turns out to be too much even after capping them to 2 squads per player and lessening the dakka deffgun's dps a bit, then we can redesign them.

Right now eldar are too swarmy and nids aren't swarmy enough. More changes to come...

[The Premove]

lootas are strong vs sm, but its the only effective answer orks have to early SM

[MarkDawg]

Yes but if you space out the 2 Zoans and a screamer killer jump troops have not a chance in hell of doing any damage the only thing you can you do is die.

[Fallschirmjager]

carnifexs count as vehicles, so use melta bombs against them. if youre at tier 2 and have a techmarine, immediately upgrade to the combi-melta, its melta burst ability is very strong.
im assuming you already have an army shooting at these guys. any form of AT will bring down fex's health by 1/4, and rocket launchers are effective as well.

anyways, zoans are getting nerfed, damage by 30% i believe.

SMs are gonna get a rather large change as gabriel and others had discussed ingame, he'll raise the upkeep cost of marines, increase the build time, and set the max rate of req for SM to be 300.

lootas arent just anti-infantry, their also AV. 2 loota squads killed my Terminator FC rather quickly, and also cut down 3 assault terminators. hopefully the hard cap of 2 will help.

[MarkDawg]

@Fallschirmjager Zoans own anything in range and the SK just finishes you off like you said zoans will get a nerf stick pretty bad.

I was thinking about this if we are going to balance test this mod shouldn't we be sand boxing this to get a real feel for balance?

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

Psychic_pvp damage adjusted: commander, heavy inf and super heavy inf take .75 instead of 1, and zoanthrope's damage was reduced to 200 from 234. Vehicles now take 1.0 instead of 0.85 from psychic_pvp, so now the total damage taken by heavy infantry after both adjustments have been made is 160, down from 234. Since 234 x 0.68 = 159.12, this is just about a 32% damage mitigation for space marines, warrior broods, and nobz. I may add a 50% knockdown chance to zoanthropes, since it IS supposed to be an artillery weapon, but it won't melt squads like it did before.

This will also affect the farseer's damage versus heavy troops with psychic storm.

I can meet you all online Monday to sandbox things before I finalize changes and release beta 2.

I already made most of the changes we'll see in-game.

You guys can sandbox things and post the changes you'd like to see. I will be busy from tonight until Monday.

[MarkDawg]

Would you like Us to pick out units then post reps so you can make your own observations?

[MarkDawg]

We did some sandboxing and I will link you to the replay so you can make your own observations.

http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar...ails&id=105261

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

Thanks, I will take a look at it. I don't have time this weekend to extensively test things, so I am trusting you guys to bring to my attention what needs changing for next week's update.

Alrtighythen, I looked through the sandbox and here are my thoughts:

Scouts vs guardians - this is pretty much how I want it to be. Scouts are elites, and you can't bully them in Codex Edition with any other tier 1 skirmisher with the possible exception of a Lictor ambush. Scouts are badass, even without flamers/shotties, and can outfight fodder units one on one.

Tacs vs guardians - easy enough, tacs win easily unless guardians use special weapons or outnumber them by a good margin. Tacs vs Storm Guardians - storm guardians eventually will suppress them, which stops them from shooting back, leading to a storm guardian win. HOWEVER in an actual game, tacs would dash into melee and make paste of the storm guardians.

You have to understand the purpose of storm guardians - this is one unit that I made in the spirit of a tt unit. Storm guardians aren't really good melee'rs. They carry a pistol and sword, and they get melee resistance aura, but they are the worst melee unit in the game out of all "close combat" weapon users. Why would you get storm guardians, in tt or in Codex Edition? The answer in TT is that they get two flamers, plus a warlock (that's three template weapons). Their purpose isn't really to melee the other team's melee specialists, or to tank necessarily - their purpose is a as a close-range fire support unit. They are the Eldar flamers.

If you look at them like a flame unit, then you can easily see their worth. Following close behind a banshee squad or a warlock or farseer, they are absolutely devastating; with a warlock, even more so. Their melee kit gives them melee resistance aura in codex edition, meaning they will last almost twice as long as guardians in melee. Considering they will soften up and suppress a slugga or gaunt squad that tries to rush them, they can absolutely win against these units when it finally closes to melee. However, the Storm Guardian squad is designed around tactical use of flamers (and in T3, fusion guns) to support assault troops or to hose down gaunts/sluggas that get into melee with your ranged squads.

Now that we got that out of the way, on to the rest...

Tacs vs Banshee - banshees barely win with about 4 banshees left and low health. This is by design, if the banshees used howl they would've won without taking more than maybe one or 2 losses, max, and if they had any fire support the tacs would've been gone without killing a single shee.

ASM vs Banshee - ASMs are the hard core melee monsters of T1, and will beat any other T1 melee unit. They are far more expensive than any other T1 unit, and worth their cost. Geting ASM's delays your T2 by quite a bit, so you had better be raiding the enemy's power farms or you may end up facing a walker, which will eat your ASM's. Then again, if the Shees suppress them, they will win. Winning with Banshees is all about running in to flank and then popping Howl and going to town.

Vanguard Vets vs Banshee - Imagine a squad of ASM sergeants with various power weapons. Of course they demolish banshees, but again if you suppress them the shees will win.

Scout Sniper vs Eldar Rangers - this is going to come down to who shoots first. Their weapons are almost identicle, with the same rate of fire, and scouts doing slightly more damage and getting frags with the sergant, while rangers get slightly more range, and holofield, fleet, and knockdown. The difference is mainly in clickies, their sniping performance is similar.

Dreadnought vs Wraithlord - the Dreadnought is the strongest walker, but the Wraithlord can equip a ranged weapon upgrade that does not compromise it's melee offense. It would lose its melee resistance aura, making it fall to the dread more quickly in melee, but its better turn rate and similar speed mean that a wraithlord with a brightlance can kite a dreadnought. If you want to use WL's in an AV role, give it a brightlance, and shoot the walkers/fexes that want to melee you until you've softened them up. Charge in to use the sword against transports and tanks. A WL with a shuriken cannon will massacre infantry, even though it does not get the AOE attack that the dreadnought gets. It's a walking suppression platform. I think WL's are great as they are, I am open to suggestions though. A WL without upgrades will beat an Assault Cannon dread in melee though.

Predator Destructor vs Fire Prism - the Prism is meant to be used for long-range bombardment and is not suitable for getting pelted with tank fire. It's extreme range and high power would kill the pred in about 4 hits, with focused blast.

Ven Dread vs Avatar - The Avatar edges out the Ven dread. This is fine, they are similar in status. I want Avatars and Ven Dreads to be capped at 1 per game though.

[MarkDawg]

So you like the status of the Eldar/SM balance now?

Scouts over GU
Tacts Over GU
Tacts if they engage in melee Over Shee
ASM over Shees
Dred most powerful walker
Scout sniper slightly more Damage than Ranger (very close)
Avitar edges Ven Dred slightly
Do you really want the pred to fire like that?

Tacts make paste of about any eldar unit in melee if you use the melee button. They Shred Shees and mutilate GU They almost beat an Avitar with sarge

[KPMaker]

Nice work Gabriel, and a personal thank you for all your hard work. This is a very good start.

The squad options are very enjoyable, but the overall pace of the game still falls flat and is too lame to last for any significant amount of time IMO.

Suggestions (mainly due to play the TableTop Mod/ TTM)

1) Stronger defenses. The power nodes in the TTM took very very very small amounts of damage from small arms fire. They could only be destroyed in a decent amount of time via T2 & T3 weapons/upgrades.

2) The option to zoom out more. The TTM did this nicely, and would be an excellent touch.

3) Requisition nodes. Even if they looked just liked the power nodes, this would be a nice touch as well.

I will test more to see if I can find some balance issues not already mentioned.

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

Actual games of eldar vs sm are close right now. ASM over shees/tacs over shees doesn't account for the fact that you will have 3 gu's in support and if shees use suppression, they will kill the tacs/asm by themselves.

Regarding scouts over gu, remember gu give req back when they die, and with the appropriate heavy weapon plat, they can easily kill scouts. A shuriken cannon or d-cannon will make them win a firefight with scouts, but scouts will always beat them in melee. A warlock leader with Embolden helps out too, and will suppress the scouts after enough lightning hits. GU are great right now, just the "vanilla" version with no upgrades will lose to scouts or tacs, of course.

Rangers make better snipers than scouts because of holofield and longer range. Also, rangers are available in T1, scouts get sniper rifles in T2.

Shees did beat tacs 1v1 in melee, even after losing a member to bolter fire closing in, and they had like 4 members left. If they had flanked and used suppression they would've had all their members left. The person who sandboxed this forgot to use Howl. I think I will give banshees an 0.5 speed boost and a minor health boost to help them get into melee, I need to see them sandboxed using Howl to really know if I need to boost their dps.

I will have to see the sandbox of avatar versus tacs, however I'm fairly certain that the avatar is doing like 400-500 damage per hit, so a tac squad will lose a member every hit or every other hit. Also he's got super-heavy infantry armor, which means that normal melee damage will do 30% damage to him... and he has 7k+ hp. I would like to see the replay where a tac squad out-melee's an avatar, because I KNOW the avatar will beat a regular dread and a ven dread 1v1, and either of those will eat a tac squad in melee in a few hits.

SM are op right now not because of their units' relative power, but because they are producing them too fast. I am going to make SM produce about 70% the rate they are producing right now, and it'll be dead even.

Banshees supported by a gu/sg squad are incredible, even vs ASM's and warrior broods. Banshees only cost 400/12, and ASM's cost 550/50! Of course they will wipe the floor with them in a straight-up melee.

Regarding nodes for req/power, I will increse the power nodes' resistance to normal weapons fire, and I already said that the turret's low hp will get fixed. Placed turrets will get about double their current hp, and base turrets about triple. I wanted generators to be tougher than nodes though, so that the choice to cap/decap an opponent's power versus just razing his gen farm is more of a tactical decision based on whether you have enough firepower available to get the job done before he rolls up behind you and counter-attacks.

I am also going to find a way to include some of the other buildings in the multiplayer skirmishes, such as the orky gun tower.

Try to understand, until this week I had no one to play against and just the braindead AI to test units with. Now that we have some people helping out, it will get balanced/paced up in no time. I plan to tailor this mod to the community's balance preferences and ideas, so we get the DOW 2 we always wanted.

Thanks for your points and interest!

[Fallschirmjager]

well, for eldar to be less swarmy, i recommend just decreasing the size of most squads, right now theres so damn many of them! They are a DYING race, i dont expect them to willingly throw hundreds of guardians to waste. Decrease the size of squads, but keep their DPS similar. Their weaponry are more advanced after all.

Concerning Rangers vs Sniper Scouts. you gotta consider that u can get sniper rifles for scouts at tier 3 ( i believe, which is 500/225 total), plus the sniper rifle wargear, which is 150/75 (its around there), and theres the 300 for the Scout squad. In general it costs u 950/300 (plus or minus some) to get ur first Sniper squad. then it costs 450/75 (plus or minus some) to get more sniper squads. rangers, on the other hand, cost 400/50 i believe.
but thats just me ramblin, scouts are already pretty damn powerful.

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

Scout snipers are tier 2. The heavy bolter for scouts is tier 3. Rangers are 400/10 and tier 1.

[Fallschirmjager]

alright so maybe ur first scout sniper costs 750/200.
so scout snipers cost around 450/75. and theyre tier 2. w/e, i just hate rangers, so damn annoying.

[27X]

As an aside, I do like the beaky commander.

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

I fixed the beaky commander's helmet, except when you equip the Iron Halo. I think the Halo is part of a model that includes Vanilla Ice's gel tips, so you get a sort of "hair crown" effect. Not THAT bad, but still there. If anyone can edit the hair out, or knows how to fix the Iron Halo, let me know please.

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

Well, I've made most of the changes for gameplay, I am going to upload it now so we can test it out in multiplayer. Consider this beta 1.2 (posted on front page).

[DeusImperator]

No, you can get Halo on ANY marine.

Tarkus with Iron Halo.


SM banner is incompatible with Terminator Armour, heavy bolter and Plasma cannon wargear.

SM cape is only compatible with thunder hammers.

[Steel*Faith]

Can someone please make a video for Youtube? I'm dieing to see some of the new units and changes in action. I think i would be good for promoting the mod as well.

Gabriel, what about reducing the req refund of Guardians to 25%? Eldar aren't really known for their great numbers, or being able to replace casualties effectively. Also, what about making Eldar infantry slightly harder to hit in combat? That would simulate their evasiveness and agility.

Can guardians, sluggaz ect still waltz up to Tacts and attack them in melee? I thought even basic ranged sqauds cause suppression?

[Fallschirmjager]

gabe said he'll make the eldar less swarmy. in any case, there isnt an evasion property in dow2.

1v1 Sluggas vs Tacs, if the Tacs are behind cover or just out in the open, and they shoot at the Sluggas while theyre charging, the sluggas will take a few casualties or lose a good amount of hp (1/3 or 1/4), and then be beaten to pulp in CQC.

so this is also some sort of campaign mod as well? what kinda of master crafted grenades do you have deus?

[MarkDawg]

I think the tech marine refactor field is not working in the new patch.

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

Yeah the techie isn't getting the refractor field, just the orbs and signum. The refractor will be gone next patch. Are you noticing the economy speeding up for nids and orkz? Is it a tad less speedy for SM?

[Fallschirmjager]

it slowed down to a grinding halt for marines. i had 1 scout squad, 2 marines, 1 dev, and 1 razorback + FC for the entire game (all ranked up to lvl 4 i think). me and lord vicious were playing a comp stomp, 2v3. lord just massed scouts i believe, scout shotties since we were playing against orks.
for sm, i cant afford to lose ANY troops early game, else i already lost since i wont have enuf forces to retake lost ground.
FC terminator also pops up as a black box. the terminator itself is inside the black box, since i can see parts of the power fist when he attacks/

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

So it's too slow for marines? I'll adjust it and re-upload as 1.2. Termie head will get fixed.

Alright, no problem, keep the info coming.

[kenshin620]

I read something online about a pyrovore... is the new Tyranid codex out? I would like to see a copy before I change the nids lineup. Rest assured, all new "official" nid lifeforms will make it to Codex Edition.

Well its basically a heavy flamer with legs that explodes when killed. not too exceptional especially when theres venomthropes and zoanthropes to take elite slots (leaked german codex and somone translated most of it. I can give you the english translated part if you want but no pics in them)

Anyways redownloading DoW2 to try this out!

[No_0ne]

Can someone upload a couple replays or something, I'd appreciate it.

[MarkDawg]

1.2

TM: Refractor field still not wroking
FC Termi aromo Works!! just fine now
Went though most of the other war gear and didn't see any problems.
Commado shotty kills half tact or ASM with the Shotty ability

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

kommando nob shotty ability is op? It shouldn't be THAT powerful lol... I'll adjust it for 2.0. This is just to get a feel for the economy and to make sure that everyone has a "soft counter" to vehicles available in T1: SM get Heavy Bolter Vengeance Rounds, Eldar get a Brightlance, Orkz get Lootas, and Nids get Venom Cannons on the Venom Warrior Brood.

I sped up Nids and Orkz economy, and slowed down SM economy.

I also adjusted the zoanthrope and a few other units to make them more balanced for multiplayer.

Let me know what you think.

[Fallschirmjager]

if u move devs to t2 u lose SM tier 1 AV

[The Premove]

screamer killer is missing 2 limbs lol
is this intentional?

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

No, I dunno what's up with its limbs. I will fix it. I didn't change it's model.

Devs will stay T1 but I need some way of slowing down the rate at which you get 2 of them. It's when 2 devs cover each other with superdakka that the map is locked down.

I also want to see missiles and plasma cannons getting used.

I want heavy support to come in various forms, not just the inevitable dreadnought gravy drop lol. Although seeing 30 orkz go up in salsa was hilarious.

Power rate in team games is going UP.

Damage from the drop pod will go down some. It has to, lol, it's a tactical nuke right now. It's doing a tad too much, but it will still kill some of them, just not ALL of them on a direct hit, as fluffy and funny as that is.

Kommando's explosives will also be rendered "sane" on the damage dept.

Devs may increase in cost, asm may decrease in cost... haven't decided yet. Scouts and Tacs are perfect right now stats wise, I just may increase the cost of scouts to 400.

I also may allow SM and Eldar to swap out weapon upgrades and platforms for one of a higher tier.

So you could swap your flamer for a plasma gun, or a melta gun, but not a flamer for a heavy bolter.

You could swap out a brightlance for a d-cannon or star cannon, but not vice-versa. Same for the shuriken plat. Just a thought.

[MarkDawg]

Those changes all sound very good!

[DeusImperator]

The eldar / SM weapon swap sounds like a good idea.

[Mr-Benis]

I think we need a lot more people playing the mod to make a decision. It's a mod that deserves more advertising that's for sure.

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

ASM will cost 550/40, and Devs cost increased to 550/40 to match ASM, so the heavy support/counter attack will be the same for SM players. This will avoid mirror matches turning into 2 x dev with scout flamer support all the time.

Tac heavy bolter will be your "fast" suppression unit, and tac with anything else is a good default melee unit. SUPER suppression costs a bit more power, as does SUPER melee.

Power rate will be increased across the board, it is trickling in during team games, even if you have 3 gen farms.

Sound good?

[MarkDawg]

I think so.

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

Yeah, things we weren't seeing: Tac heavy bolters, Scout heavy bolters, Scout Snipers (once in a while) not enough ASM, Razorbacks. We also haven't seen Dev Plasma cannons, Missile Launchers (except in 3v3), Lascannons and Multimeltas. Although to be fair, I think the lack of weapon upgrades is due to the power rate in team games.

Things we were seeing too much of: Double devs guarding each other, and the Dreadnought salsa drop was coming too early. I think I upped the cost to 500 req/450 zeal for the normal dread, and 600 req/500 zeal for the venerable.

[Fallschirmjager]

no one uses ASM cause we dont need to. our FC fulfills that role. we dont need to really tie down any units in melee since we can cut them down at range, and ASM squads dont last very long under fire.
FC/ASM comparison:
FC: No cost in the beginning
250-600 to revive
has To Victory, which is essentially a land based jump. To Victory can clear a path straight to set up teams
can be equipped with jump packs, and essentially turns it into 1500 hp ASM.
Powerfist gives the FC huge AV capabilities,
Powersword grants a good bonus to Battle Cry,
Battle Cry + For the Emperor can kill warbosses in several hits

ASM: Expensive (most expensive Marine infantry other than Terminators), slow to train
Die quickly if under too much fire
500 or so hp for each ASM
only AV is the melta bomb/sergeant Power Fist

FC is essentially an ASM with more hp and more ablities. Try making ASM deepstrikable, i think in FoK they dropped out of a Thunderhawk you couldnt see.

scout heavy bolters come in too late to do any difference iether, altho the possibilities of combining it with infilitration are pretty endless, scouts become generally out of date by tier 3.

I personally keep the HB's on Dev's usually because it is currently the best choice. No other weapon in their arsenal has supression capabilities. If i need anti armor i call down a dreadnought or give my tacs meltas.

one part i noticed was that my team usually had map control over your team gabriel, which meant more income. that means faster teching up to T2. you guys always concede as soon as we get a dreadie drop :\

concerning drop pods, people should be smart not to let units sit under a yellow circle with skulls on it >.>

[miketwistam]

what about creating a victory condition, in which you'll have a preset amount of resources and no income. So this will be more closer to tabletop...and will be alot easier to balance things out. Just a thought.

[Fallschirmjager]

hm...what if all marine units were dropped in via drop pod.

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

Well I just updated to 1.3.

Things I fixed: Both ASM's and Devs cost 550/40. Tac heavy bolters cost 540/20 total, so it's not much more money for an extra heavy bolter. ASM Melta Bombs are now tier one, giving SM a good combo with 1 dev/ 1 ASM to melta/vengeance down a rampaging fex if they tech up first... the melta will prevent the charge while the vengeance cuts it's hp down, it's not perfect, but it should be at least a deterrent.

I will consider making higher-tier weapon upgrades replace lower-tier ones. Need to try this out myself first.

Brood nests are now retreat targets, get a minor healing aura (30% as good as Tech relay), and capillary towers are no longer classified as buildings, they are more like gens now so all units can melee them/target them.

Turrets have more hp, and base turrets have a LOT more hp.

Ork Deff Dreds and Wartrukks have a tad more hp now, and the POWER RATE HAS BEEN RESTORED for team games! Woot!

Now let's see if this helps

http://www.filefront.com/15243105/DO...on1.3Fixed.rar