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Dawn of War 2: Codex Edition

  1. #101
    wow! you r like modding machine lol. no seriously you have released 4 versions in like ehm a week? O.o anyways just pro!

    btw, please read my post #98 and say what you think. thanks. =)

  2. #102
    I like the set amount of resources. For that game, would we just not have tiers 1 thru 3, and you have a timer before the match starts? You spend your req/power on units/upgrades, and then you fight over the VP's? How exactly do you envision the gameplay, with no reinforcements and no new units deployed?

    Re: the 4 versions in a week, I'm trying to keep ppl interested so they'll playtest it extensively. Gamers' attention spans being what they are, if there's something frustrating or boring I need to fix it asap.

  3. #103
    Marines are OP now. Too much damage and health.

    Gabriel do you have any formula that you're working to? Your changes seem very erratic. It was more balanced at beta 1.1 than it is now.

  4. #104
    fix predator accuracy please. no one makes ASM still.

  5. #105
    I love the mod, but there are some things I must bring to your attention.


    General:
    Melee seems to lack when fighting critical mass of ranged. For eldar, who are shooty, this should not be a problem. But what about the orks and nids? Melee COULD use a speed boost to get there faster, or more HP to stay alive longer.



    Space Marines:

    the faction has both damage and durability, this makes them incrediby hard to overcome as the other three factions. Either bring down the durability or the damage(Damage preferred).

    the Techmarine Combi-Melta is too good. It blasts a shot that can take a 2000 HP vehicle down to below half health. This makes the Combi-Plasma useless, because it does not do that. Really, I can one hit ANY unit and almost destroy a vehicle, why get the plasma? Either bring the plasma up(NO!) or the Melta down.

    The predator, dear god the predator! The thing moves fast, suppresses everything, and with its Machine gun battle cannon of death, destroys ANYTHING it comes near. I was barely able to take it down with a point blank MELTA blast and melta bomb. The thing is a tank, and tanks are to be supported by infantry, not become a one-man army. Please, reduce its accuracy or firing rate.

    Eldar:

    Against Space Marines, Eldar are almost impossible to play. They lack HP for staying power, and lack attack power to kill. Either up their HP(no) or up their attack power. Eldar just don't do enough damage to compete.

    Dire Avengers in particular suffer from this. They are aspect warriors, yet do not do the damage that they should be doing. Likewise, the Brightlance to me seems...underpowered. It does pathetic damage against vehicles and Space marines. Think the brightlance can get a buff to either damage or firing speed?

    Farseer's psychic storm is overpowered against orks and nids. Think Mekkachu back in vanilla is bad? This makes him look cuddly and shit. please, either increase the energy drain per tick ,or decrease the damage.

    Orks:

    Not alot of problems with them. Just that they die to an average SM player, or a good Eldar player waaaay too often. again, speed or HP boost.

  6. #106
    Predator fixed. It was using autocannon_tank_pvp instead of autocannon_pvp. It should have a base accuracy of 80% against small targets, accuracy on the move should be 85% of that. So it shouldn't be hitting nearly 100% anymore.

  7. #107
    I think flamer suppression and damage needs a reduction

  8. #108
    On the cleansing flame ability, or the normal flamer attack? Please be specific in your posts.

  9. #109

  10. #110
    Things to think about: Are ranged weapons in general doing too much damage? Rather than edit EVERY ranged weapon in the game, we can make all ranged damage types, or the ones that you ppl think are op, do just a touch less, or do less damage at long/distant range.

  11. #111
    Well SM players have the strongest ranged weapons, with the best range (or so it feels).

    They're meant to have 'rapid fire' weapons, a damage reduction at range seems appropriate.

    Force commander is also ridiculously strong in melee.

    ALSO RETREAT SPEED. Gabriel you said to me that there was an 80% damage reduction to units from ranged attacks when the unit is retreating, and that this is countered by a 30% damage vulnerability to melee. SpaceMarines retreat SO FAST that my fleeting banshees can't catch them. There is a problem here. Having retreating units move at 110-120% faster than normal is still faster than base, but can be caught. What the hell are they moving at now? 160%? I mean come on, their armour already reduces ranged damage taken, how much more protection to these guys need?

    The same problems in the vanilla game are emerging now. There are too many large changes being made simultaneously, often to SM only and it's throwing the balance off.

    As for the eldar team right now, in CE1.3 they just aren't competitive.

  12. #112
    All I really did to the retreat mechanic was add 15% to the base speed. I also reduced the delay on the "added speed the longer you retreat for" from 12 seconds to 5, and from 8 seconds to 3. Who the hell retreats for 12 seconds?

    But if 15% was too much, we could do 10% or 8%. Let's hear from the rest of the community, but your sentiments are noted.

    Most of the changes made were to Nids and Orkz. Mostly nids this last patch. Eldar aren't that much different from 1.1 right now. Reduced Farseer psychic storm, and increased damage on the brightlances is what you're getting in 1.4. 1.3 largely improved eldar, with the faster banshees/longer charge range, and 10% more hp for shees. Eldar have been consistently buffed, with the exception of the farseer's storm. Brightlances were added to T1 and the cost of shuriken plats and bright lances were reduced. I think you should play some more games and see what others are doing first.

    The retreat speed % is the same for all races. Eldar and melee units from other races already move faster than Tacs.

  13. #113
    I'd like to 1v1 you at some point on 1.3, you play eldar, I'll play SM. You use WSE and I'll use FC.

    I'll show you the problems in intimate detail.

  14. #114
    @Gabriel
    wow, glad that you liked it (the idea of preset resources)
    well i think it'll be better if you'll keep anything the way it is now, only really make the units unattackable for like 5-7 minutes after the start of the match, to avoid stupid rushing.

    And seems you are right, it will be alot more interesting if they fight will be for VP's.
    And about reinf and new troops: i think it will be better to let players get set amount of resources every 10 mins or so. This will greatly increase the tabletop feel of the game, making you really "pay" for your wrong combinations of units you have =)

    Also this way the cost of units will have a realy greater role due to lack of resources. So it will be really a choice to spend craploads of resources to get Vanguard Vets for example, or just quickly get ASM and the rest resources spend on your hero wargear. That's it.

    Sorry for wall of text. But i think ppl will really like this VC.

  15. #115
    I hardly get much time on my comp these days due to having a kid now but I had to try this mod, absolutely excellent, I love the effect from bolters including the gibbs etc

    You're a credit to the community!

    if you ever stop supporting this mod ill hunt you down and.... make you continue! ;-)

  16. #116
    Hello there , and thanks Gabriel for your wonderful mod !
    Just one idea for Eldar , to simulate their evasiveness and agility , you could give them a skill that give them more defense against ranged damage for 7s (or their energie could be damaged).
    Units die too fast in general , spam and focus are too effective ... I prefer have some time for microgestion . If you change accuracy for all ranged unit for long range without change other stats , it could solve the problem ... in that way , melee will become more important , and the game more tactical.
    Tank and walker need more life too , I want more time to play with and against them , not see them die in 4s with focus, for balance you could lower their damage and their suppression ... like that they will be a tool against blob without be OP.

    Thanks for the hard work

  17. #117
    wooo hahahaha well done sean for completing the mod up to beta and making it so good!
    I have been on most of today and it's GREAT
    I know I havn't been around for a long while because i havnt had my computer, and couldnt log in on the other computer, but dont worry- i have been watching yas haha
    I have found a few little bugs, like in army painter everything other than the primary 3 units, everything has a space marine name (eg the banshee exarch is called Assault Terminator) and I dont like that the Dire Avenger Exarch has a shiled...especially that it's imperial haha
    also in the next release the avatar needs to be a bit more, well a bit more uber haha
    because it seems that he is beaten quite comprehensivly by MANz and swarmy boyz
    but anyway, good job modding and to everybody (including myself :P) that helped gabe along.
    cheers, Nex

    oh by the way, if your not sure who i am, my steam is Sn1per|El1te
    Nex Angelus - The Angel of Death

  18. #118
    Changes for 1.4 so far:

    - Avatar is fixed, he's way more uber. 10k hp and when he levels, he just gains attack bonuses. He always has 10k max hp (up from about 7k). Attack power increased as well.

    - Dire Avengers do 15% more damage.

    - MANz fixed, they can reinforce now.

    - The Falcon does a bit more damage to infantry but does not do quite as much to vehicles now.

    - Ork heroes get more hp.

    - Brightlance damage is up.

    - Pred damage type changed, will no longer counter vehicles as hard, and speed buff on it's armor is removed. It now has the same driving profile as the razorback. Pred accuracy is 80 to 85% now. Still has long range, and can pound targets with a spotter.

    - Orky Tank and Fire Prism rate of fire increased, range equals that of the pred.

    - Eldar tanks got 100 - 200 more hp.

    - Orky vehicles got 100 - 200 more hp.

    - ALL melee infantry now take 10% less ranged damage while in melee.

    - Melee fodder units and Banshees now get a longer charge range and more speed on the charge.

    Still waiting on more input for nids/orkz.

  19. #119
    I noticed that in the Army Painter menu, all units(except Heros) come up as "Terminator Squad", "Assault Terminator", "Tactical Marine Squad", or "Scout Squad".

  20. #120
    Right - I just played a game vs AI. I was Eldar, AI was SM.

    I nearly lost. I usually wipe the floor with AI, and this time it was extremely close. SM are far too over-powered, and they move too fast. They were slow because if you gave them too much speed they could just be everywhere at once. And a SM that can pop up anywhere is extremely hard to deal with. I can make a squad of Tac Marines retreat - a second later the same squad will be raping my Power Gens. right next to my base -full health. Scout Squads should not be able to get Heavy Bolters - as they are only SCOUT Squads, they are not meant to be in the thick of the fight - only to take melee off the other SM squads with Shotguns. Also, the Tac Marine Squads have far too much health. I had my entire army shooting at a squad(1 Falcon, 2 Guardian Squads w/Shruiken Cannon, 1 Dire Avenger squad, my hero, 1 Seer Council Squad) - and after 5 seconds they began to retreat, with only 1 dead. and after chasing the extremely-fast Tac Squad, I killed no more of them, and they were back in the fight a second later on the other side of the map.

    So, summarize my problem:
    1: Space Marines are too fast
    2: Tactical Space Marines have too much Health
    3: Scout Squads should not have Heavy Bolters
    4: Either Space Marines are too strong all-around, or Eldar aren't strong enough in Ranged Combat

  21. #121
    Questions I want you to consider:

    - Do grenades do enough damage? Bear in mind that I do not want it to become a one-hit killer like it is in retail.

    - What would you like to see for sluggas and stormboyz to make them more viable as melee units?

    - Do you think that the Lictor and Ravener should switch places? Lictor become T2, and Ravener become T1, in other words?

    Please provide reasoning for your answers, go into detail if you can. Thanks!

  22. #122
    are predators capped at one? i couldve sworn i saw 5 or 6 predators on the opposing team one game.

    concerning FC's damage in melee, i spammed for the emprah and battle cry + powersword against you in that 3v3

  23. #123
    Okay we sand boxed Orkz melee in the sandbox

    http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar...ails&id=105690

    Melee Sandbox
    Scouts Vs Sluggas: Slight win for Sluggas

    Tacts Vs Sluggas: Tacts win Big

    Stormboyz Vs Tacts: Tacts win with 23 points of health left

    T2Nobz Vs Tacts: Nobz win big

    ASM Vs T2Nobz: ASM win with 212 health left

    ASM/Sarge Vs MeagaNobz: MeagaNobz win big

    Ranged sandbox

    Scouts Vs Shootaz: Equal. really it's what unit fires first

    Tacts Vs Shootaz: Tacts win big

    My thoughts Sluggas are need a big boost in HP as they are right now I would not even build them.

    T2Nobz need a buff as well they cost 500/50 and are in t2 they are getting beat by a t1 unit in there specialty.

    MegaNobs should have been tested Vs a Vanguard squad but was not so I wont comment on them.

    I know you are already considering rasing the Hp of the all Ork heroes I would concur with that right now the war boss is a bitch boy.

  24. #124
    - Warboss now takes less damage from ranged weapons while in melee.

    - Lootas range on the 2 types of deffgun adjusted to be equal, and they will no longer be able to reach snipers.

    - Nobz are almost as good in melee as ASM without their hammers or a leader, and they also provide a buff to all boyz who see them kill sumfin', kinda like termies do for SM. This is already implemented. By mid to late T2 when you're pumping out nobz squads you should already vastly outnumber space marines, you can't have superior units AND superior numbers, that's the reason SM SUCKED in retail... orkz beat them 1v1, and faced them 2v1.

    - Termies edge out Meganobz, already sandboxed it. Meganobz will probably beat Van Vets just based on sheer HP. Vanguard Vets are super ASM's, they all get good power weapons and the leader gets a Thunder Hammer (t3 for Sarge tho). They are for killing leaders and hard targets, although the hammer can handle a swarm.

    -Meganobz charge removed, it was buggy. They get the Deff Dredd speed up ability, instead.

    Preds are capped at 1. So are the termie squads, and the Ven Dread.

    - Ork nob leader/meganobz/meganobz leader all fixed now. Faces should look like the warboss. Now dey can see dere teef.

  25. #125
    And what about those two games we played earlier today? Eldar vs Orks is seriously in orks favour. I got spammed by slugga boyz and had no way of stopping them. I fall back, he built turrets, instantly suppressed by the giant range and huge damage.

    I didn't have fun. Balance aside I got whitewashed twice and that's just bullshit.

  26. #126
    Well - after several skirmishes with the AI as Eldar(AI are Space Marines), I've made several deductions...


    1:The Space Marines are far too fast - I can force them into a retreat and the same unit will pop up on the other side of the map 10seconds later attacking my power gens

    2:The Force Commander is WAY too strong, and when he misses my units and hits the air damage is still done(A MAJOR pain in the ass for retreating units as FC's melee is extremely strong)

    3:Eldar are too swarmy

    4:Tactical Marines have too much health - I was attacking one unit with everything I had(2 Guardian Squads\w Shruiken Cannons, Warlock, 2 Banshee squads) and I only managed to kill 1 Tac Marine out of 4 even while they were retreating.



    I also found a minor bug in the Army Painter menu - all units(except heroes) are name "Assault Terminator", "Terminator Squad", "Devastator Marine Squad", or "Scout Squad"

  27. #127
    Lootas just got toned down a bit, just for reference try a brightlance plat with ranger spotters. The brightlance out-ranges the turret and should make short work of it.

    I am currently working on hard-capping buildings, in which case turrets will be capped at 2.

    1.4 almost ready, last call for balance/content suggestions. It will probably be up tomorrow or the next day.

  28. #128
    MR-Benis have you ever been whitewashed in retail? Or are you so UBER that you have never lost a game and not even been in it?

  29. #129
    So if you are going to hard-cap turrets etc, maybe you'll remove the pop cap cost of them also?

  30. #130
    WTF, WoW, hard capping is one of the worst things to do to a RTS game. I can understand special elite units, but not units like the scouts, tanks, or especially turrets. A 2 turret cap would make them useless, and quite honestly be an unplayable mod for me.

    Can’t you just increase the cap, and make them slightly more expensive.

    I just don’t get how things start how great, and go downhill fast.

    Don’t get me wrong, there is a lot to like in this mod, and I am so thankful for all your hard work, but again hard capping is such a turn off when it goes past elite units.

    I can see Vanguard, Sternguard, Ven Dread, and heroes, but definitely not scouts, turrets, and even tanks. Termies can go either way, but the van/stern/Ven-Dread already fill that 1 elite role, thus to me it makes sense to make Termies so expensive cap wise and resource wise that you could only get 4 max with the hero as a fighting force anyways, so why hard cap.

    So you have the option to have a more balanced fighting force or 4 “slow” Termies and 1 hero, and at that only able to get late game anyways.

    Hard capping limits strat options and overall fun IMO. It is even worse with DoW2, since it is a watered down version of the vast amount of strat options from CoH, thus it’s like watering it down even more. You could almost call this Winter Assault 2, lol

    I apologize if this seems harsh; I am so thankful for all your hard work, and wish you the best no matter what you choose.

    Peace

  31. #131
    @Markdawg - most of my account registered losses are from 1.3.2 days. But even back then I NEVER got trounced so completely, I at least had options. I couldn't even leave my base after 5 minutes because my dudes got suppressed or tied in melee.

    @KPMaker - this mod is in serious need of homogenisation first. Turrets are OP, and spamming them everywhere during T1 makes the game BORING. Boring games get dropped. See why people don't play vanilla any more.

    Gabriel I do have a last minute suggestion - Drop the power cost on storm guardians. They're weak as shit and will lose in combat against every other melee unit, so why do they cost 20 power? They don't come out early enough to provide any meaningful counter to other melee forces.

    Maybe this is me speaking from the perspective of just a 'mediocre gamer' but if what I think of as problems are not actually problems then maybe there is a problem.

  32. #132
    I am thinking of removing the power cost of storm guardians altogether. The purpose of an Eldar flame unit - especially with a warlock - is to provide flamer support for banshees and heroes. They can be very effective if they have someone tanking for them. I want the Eldar player to have 3 first unit options - guardians, storm guardians, and Dire Avengers. So, the power cost will likely get removed, and the req cost increased to 400, because they start with their special weapons anyway, do the same ranged damage as a guardian squad (if less range) and they get melee resistance aura, so they do last longer in melee than guardians.

    Look for SG to get a buff in 1.4.

    Instead of capping turrets, I was thinking of giving them a power upkeep in addition to a req upkeep. Pumping out too many turrets would slow your power rate to a crawl, this way we can limit the practicality of "turret spam" while not resorting to popcap or hard capping.

    Turrets were capped in the original DoW.

    What do you think?

    Question of the day: Should waaagh banners and Webway Gates generate a minor healing aura, like the TM's relay? This one is MINOR, come Monday/Wednesday when 1.4 is released, you'll see brood nests offer a healing aura while units huddle around it.

    Also should webways/waaagh banners be targeted as retreat rally points?

    Discuss.

  33. #133
    IMO no, webway gates as a retreat point would be very bad. I hate it when my guys retreat to a rally point.

    Also can you give a more analytical overview of what you want to do with direavengers? TT wise we know they have two key bonuses - extra range and more accuracy. They also have marginally better armour. While they have identical weaponry to guardians, the other bonuses equate into more damage. Is this being reflected in game?

  34. #134
    I pretty much agree with KPmaker, don't go overboard with capping units, or else you'l lbe really hurting this mod. Having only 1 tank is bad, same with Terminators ect. The only units that should be capped at 1, is the Avatar. SM Vets, Terminators, Tyranid Synapse Creatures ect shouldn't really have acap, but a higher upkeep cost. As for Predators ect, they should have a cap of 2 minimum.

    Question of the day: Should waaagh banners and Webway Gates generate a minor healing aura, like the TM's relay? This one is MINOR, come Monday/Wednesday when 1.4 is released, you'll see brood nests offer a healing aura while units huddle around it.
    I'd say no to the healing effect on WAAAGH! banners & Webways. I'd try to keep the races as unique as possble. Not to mention SM have superior healing abilties to any of the existing races, so i'd try to keep this as a unique aspect of their race. Tyranids should have minor healing near their structures though, so I agree with this change to broodnests.

    @Gabriel, are you considering giving Orks buildable Golgotha Guard towers?

    What about a new upgrade for Sluggaz to give them 'Cybork' parts? Change their model to a Mek with a choppa to reflect this (like last stand, and Mek boss from the campaign).

    Also, is there any way to give an effect to the maps, when Tyranid players has created many Capillary towers & broonests around the map, the Tyranid spore/ash effect starts falling from the sky like it's changing the areas atmosphere?

  35. #135
    Hi Gabriel,

    I like the mod, especially the changes to SM. I don't know if this is on your to-do list but I noticed some of shortcut keys for abilities and upgrades conflict.

    For instance, the frag grenade ability and the flamer upgrade (F). On the Force Commander the charge ability and the banner conflict (C).

    These are just some I spotted but I will look for more.

    P.S I love the beaky helmet for the FC.

  36. #136
    I am going to use the "grid keys" setup that was posted a long time ago when people didn't like the hotkeys used in retail.

    Regarding unit caps, nothing is final right now, I want to hear from everyone regarding hardcaps vs. upkeep. Remember that TT games are balanced using hard caps, there are only so many spots on the Force Organization Chart for Fast Attack, Heavy Support, etc.

    I wish we could use the other popcap types in the game, like vehicle cap etc.

    Avengers deal more damage, get more range, and get more of a boost from their buffs. They lack AV platforms, though, so they are specialized AI troops. They also move faster and cap at 2x the normal rate.

  37. #137
    Member Scar™'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Maine, USA
    My circle of friends and I hate hardcaps...

    but then, we dont much care about balance. We just play teamed up against the computer and like to do whatever we feel like doing.
    Pulse Carbine Lover, StuG Addict

  38. #138
    That is a pity. Hard caps were the thing that made Dow1 much easier to balance, and for some reason the DoW2 team is not using it.

  39. #139
    i just downloaded the mod, and i don't know where to put the files for this mod. Could someone tell me where to put them? i would be able to play this mod when i do so.

    EDIT: thanks, didn't know there was a read-me (I should have). did a match against an eldar AI. all the AI got was guardians and banshees.... orkz ftw!
    Last edited by Bastonne1; 2nd Jan 10 at 10:45 AM.
    Imperial Guard Player
    'The men of the Imperium are arrayed before you. They are ready to destroy those who would seek to rip the Imperium asunder.'
    -Colonel McKendrick to Warmaster Fexizhaen, on his regiment of the Hadriasian 308th
    I've noticed that the number of words in an Ork naming convention is exponentially proportional to that of its destructive power... -Darklight004

  40. #140
    Follow the instructions in the readme included in the winrar file you downloaded.

  41. #141
    Update: In addition to all the changes posted on this forum and gamereplays.org's forum, Eldritch Storm will be getting about a 50% damage increase.

    A lot of ppl feel that ASM and Vanguard Vets need a tad more hp than their "shooty" counterparts because they jump into melee and get ff'ed down too fast.

    What saith RelicNews?

    Orkz will get a global that spawns 2 sluggas and 1 shoota squad at the base, similar to the Nids' "without number" global ability.

  42. #142
    Sounds good to me, especially the orky boy spawn ability.

  43. #143
    Yeah buddy I think that sound sweet

  44. #144
    Hey.
    I'm having trouble installing the file. Whenever I try to extract the GameAttribCodex.sga my computer says that it cannot open the .sga file as an archive.
    I already replaced did everything else in the instructions. All I need to do is extract that file to the directory to be able to play
    please help.

  45. #145
    No you don't extract the sga file.

    You just drop the GameAttribCodex.sga into the dawn of war 2\GameAssets\Archives folder

  46. #146
    Great Progress so far testing wise, noticed a bug, Playing As SM Vs Orkz, on a jungle map, once you hit tier 2 and have almsot full pop cap, game crashes,
    Other than that everything is good, cept for unit balance which we have discussed.

    Everything needs a buff and SM need to stay the same.:P Had an AVATAR and he was taken down by 4 SM Sqauds.... lol

  47. #147
    A lot of ppl feel that ASM and Vanguard Vets need a tad more hp than their "shooty" counterparts because they jump into melee and get ff'ed down too fast.
    I don't. One of the things I most despise about this game is watching my ranged units in cover get pulverized by ASMs without any recourse.

  48. #148
    UPDATE: Like Nidz with biomass, orkz will get a new economy based on Waaagh! Orkz units generate waaagh per boy and per nob, vehicle, whatever - the higher end Orky units and abilities require Waaagh! to produce and use. This will make them somewhat more similar to their DoW 1 incarnation, but keep in mind that certain extreme units like Lootas are capped to prevent spamming while maintaining the Orky dakka-goodness that they are known for.

    Tier 3 now requires Waaagh, and Certain Orky abilities like stikkbombs, boom shot, and suicide rokkit bomb require Waaagh as well. It's not a large amount, but it counts.

    Ork upgrades require req and power. Tier 3, tier 3 Ork units, and certain special abilities will require Waaagh to use.

    The Waaagh banner can be placed around the map to generate more waaagh.

  49. #149
    i'm so far liking the changes being made.

    Turthfully, I think scouts should cost 400 req. The fact that they CAN outshoot a GU squad, and get a weapon that can make them laughable in a straight up fight warrents a req increase to something that will make deploying an army of invisible pyromanics very hard.

    Again, you said that Scouts are elite, they should reflect that in cost.

    EDIT: You said something about the ML not being used? Well, I used the ML in a game, it is anti-everything. A krak missile, when combined with my melta-marines makes a carnifex a joke, and the frag missile can turn a tyranid or orky swarm into a pile of mush(like, full health to almost nothing.). I love it. Stop using the plasma cannons, guys! The ML has no set up time and the versitility to blow everything up. I am experimenting with it now, I will get back to you on if it is overpowered or not.

  50. #150
    plasma has about twice the range and a steady rate of fire. Frag missiles cost energy and have a recharge time, and do less damage, plus they don't do much to vehicles (krak missiles are great vs vehicles though).

    The ML's were supposed to be a versatile weapon that can cover either role, but doesn't specialize in either.

    When I tested it, the frag missile took a tac squad down between 3/4 and 2/3 health when both missiles hit dead on. It does do good damage to swarms, it's like getting hit with 2 grenades.

    Meltas are the strongest one-hit ranged weapon in the game.

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