Dawn of War 2: Codex Edition

[Steel*Faith]

Thanks, I thought it be nice for new players to the mod to know about the community in the first post, instead of going through all the pages.

Edit: I managed to play my first several matches tonight. I have to say that I think GG did an outstanding job with Space Marines overall. Veteran squads look absolutely awesome especially. Golden helmed beaky FC looks much cooler than I thought; i'd say keep it now.

I haven't got a chance to play Orks yet -- nor have I fought them -- so I can't comment on them. Although they have a lot of cool looking units now, and look polished for the most part.

As for Eldar and Tyranids, some of their units & abilities looks really rough graphically. Personally, I wouldn't have added certain upgrades or units into the game until the propper modding tools were implemented.

Most ranged nid units kill the feeling of the game for me (shotgun blast termagants ect). The ranged carnifex doesn't even have a firing animation anymore, and the projectile launches out at all angles without it having to turn and fire. Gabriel, i'm sure you'e aware of these things, and hard at work fixing things, but i'm just giving my impressions.

I think Tyranoforming the landscape, then generating biomass, is one of my favorite parts of playing Nids now. Although tier 2 seems out of place compared to tiers 1 & 3. Can you possibly add single Capillary towers for tier 2, so there seems like an escalation and a middle between brood nests and tyronoforming a cluster of capillary towers?

Keep up the good work Gabe, this mod is certainly something special.

[TSS117]

Hey guys I keep getting scar errors with 1.4.1, I tried reinstalling but that didint work.
Whenever i launch a game as soon as its done loading and I press anykey it crashes

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

Plz explain how spinefists on termagaunts kills the feeling of the game. Nids need SOME ranged support, and between them and Deathspitter warriors, that's all they get in t1. I've seen way more hormagaunt/warrior/raveners in my games than terma spam. Spinefists may well get a nerf tho.

Edit: Make sure you are NOT using Random AI or opponent in your match setup. That is the only known crash bug in the mod, I think it is because I changed the heroes so much.

[DeusImperator]

Gabriel Gorgutz, I can send you the code for the abiltiy that makes Missile Launchers an "ammunition toggle" ability that can switch between frag and krak.

[MarkDawg]

I think the Rocket launcher dose that now.

[nicholasneko]

anyone else getting lots of $(numbers)$ no range errors for text on units and abilities? i copyed DOW2.ucs to the GameAssets/Locale/English like it said to.

[PrivateJson]

Not getting any of that, what language is the game installed in?

[nicholasneko]

english, its also the only language folder i have.

[Fallschirmjager]

the RL has a frag missile ability atm, it doesnt switch the ammo, just fires a frag missile into the target area, and kill a couple units.

[No_0ne]

I think tankbustaz should do knock down to infantry. Orkz don't have much in terms of long range attack.

[mortisorlp]

right, as per GGs request (and may I take a moment to again congratulate him on a truly brilliant mod and something that has really made DOWII a must play game for me again).

Issues and Suggestions for ELDAR:
Dire Avengers must be tougher, slightly more damaging, and should have the exarch available in T1.
Shees need to be tougher - but the proposed FOF upgrade we talked about might do that.
Webway Gates could be upgradeable to reinforcement point and concealed in T2 with extra red cost. Maybe even produce a Starcannon or Shuriplat turret in T3 with even more red, pop and req cost.
Rangers need to do more damage vs scouts
WSE: Make the anti-grav grenade a mine instead, and give him haywire grenades. Balance it by making entangle only work on infantry, but maybe last a tiny bit longer?

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

Well, let's go over what we did today to Eldar:

- Shuriken Cannons cost is now 40/20, same as tac heavy bolter. The brightlance plat in t1 is now 50/30, a big difference.

- Dire Avengers are about 85% of a tac squad for 450 req. Plus they have more range. They are fine as is. Their upkeep was reduced now, but we sandboxed it and with the higher number of eldar units on the field, this should suffice.

- Shees have been improved now - 25% damage increase for shees and the exarch, plus a leap attack into melee on the charge is a huge difference.

- Fleet now provides 30% ranged damage resistance while fleeting. Do this on the charge and you shouldn't lose members any more unless there's a LOT of dakka incoming, or you charge into a flamer or something.

- Webways are already reinforcement points, and they will be stealthed when you hit T2. I am toying with the idea of webways being able to teleport in one turret of the player's choice - a scatter laser or something.

- Sniper damage now does 30% more to light infantry and infantry_fire_resist, as the higher damage is offset by the fact that light inf squads typically have a lot of members - except for scouts. Snipers will be more effective against scouts - Scout snipers included.

- The WSE got a major overhaul, much more hp and better melee damage, and now he gets haywire grenades as a default ability. He will be a very attractive choice to eldar players who are tired of dreadnought drops. The Anti-Grav grenade will be a mine as well, that was a good idea.

- All eldar upkeep reduced. This should prevent the mid-game stall and keep plenty of units in the field.

I currently need more data on warp spiders. They may need more health.

[mortisorlp]

Cool, let me know if you want more help sandboxing or playtesting tomorrow night (well, my night, your early evening. ). Will be back on then.

Glad it was a help.

[No_0ne]

Also, grenades need to do more damage to buildings and units in buildings in general.

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

Grenades already are getting buffed. They will do more damage, but will not be the one shot squad deleters that they were in retail.

[Steel*Faith]

Plz explain how spinefists on termagaunts kills the feeling of the game. Nids need SOME ranged support, and between them and Deathspitter warriors, that's all they get in t1.

I'm talking how they use the actual shotgun blast FX for their attack. I'm not talking about the functionality of the spinefists. That would be like a Carnifex spitting out SM rockets. Is there any other animation you could replace these placeholders with for now?

[NexAngelus]

im liking the sound of the alot now gabe
and ur right about the grenades too...they were fairly overpowered in retail dow2, but they should still od quite a lot of damage, but perhaps with a smaller blast radius?

[Steel*Faith]

Does anyone else feel that the Eldar Falcon does way too much damage? I need to test more, but I think the AV damage needs a slight nerf perhaps.

How does everyone else feel about the req refund for Tyranids and Orks? Nearly every game I played against them, they just totally overwhelm me every time. Even Guardians get to be a bit much once they add platforms.

Gabriel, can you please make Guardian squads that take a weapon platform, unable to garrison buildings?

[NexAngelus]

woah woah woah steelfaith...i'm sorry but i disagree with most of what you just said there...
the falcon, does around as much damge as it should and dos in the tt game and in the codex. And armour/endurance wise, its weaker than it should be...so please don't complain about the falcon and say it's too powerful for you to handle man...
And the orks and tyranids, i agree they are very swarmy and difficult to deal with, but that is just what they are meant to be. As far as i see it, gabe has done a pretty good job in getting them both right.
And finally, the Guardians heavy weapons platforms, can be a worthy adversary, if you charge them when they're all kitted out with shuriken cannon and plasma grenades...
As for them garrisonning in buldings, why shouldn't they, they are very well capable in a 40k world (it's not as though they're trying to run a rhino through the building)

[Steel*Faith]

It just seems like the Falcon eats through most SM units like butter. While it isn't as effective against Tyranids. I still need to do more testing to judge properly, but for some reason it seems a bit OP against SM's.

Eldar platforms are too large to fit in building, which is why Relic made Eldar plats unable to garrison. Where do you have some examples of Shurikens fitting into small buildings?

I think Gabriel did very well with capturing the feel of Orks and Nids as well, I wasn't disputing that. It just seems that their units are still great quality for the low req costs, and req refund in comparison to Eldar and SM units that have high costs and no req refund (except Guardians with a lower refund).

[mortisorlp]

Gotta say I completely disagree with Steel Faith as well. Firstly, the Falcon is about the only decent tank the Eldar get, as the FP is just basically a very fragile mobile artillery unit. Second, Eldar have enough trouble with SM in general and SM vehicles in particular.
Thirdly, it is ridiculously unfair that apart from the nids (which is understandable) SM and and Orks both can garrison hvy weps in buildings but eldar cant. its not like they are swarmy or hard enough to survive outside of garrisoning. It was a ridiculously unfair thing in retail, and I for one am very glad the mod has changed it.
As for nids, I agree with Nex, I think they are nigh on perfect now.

[Wortverdreher]

Steel*Faith:"How does everyone else feel about the req refund for Tyranids and Orks? Nearly every game I played against them, they just totally overwhelm me every time."

That's my experience too. You kill the whole swarm and a second later they're coming at you with a new swarm. That can be really frustrating. Although I like the swarmy aspect of Orks and Nids I would recommend not to get rid off the refund but to lower it.

[Teddybigboyz]

for nids , no prob at the moment , they are tough , but we can manage to win with smart playing . Ork are perfect , Eldar are great against Ork and nids but a little weak agianst SM. And for SM no problems to kill a falcon , I have done this last night just with 1 assault , a scout flamer and a tac plasma ... I had lost only one scout ! With SM , battle are tough but I haven't seen any OP unit against them .
Just play with us , we do many test faction vs faction and , and we chat after each battle to improve the mod .

The swarm is great in my opinion , and I love to kick them with my few marines when they thing they will swarm me ( tips: try to nuke them with a pod , you will like it ).

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

Regarding the req refund, remember that their waves will level your troops up if you continue to hold them off. SM get better bonuses for leveling up than the other factions, although I am going to adjust xp levels soon to make sure that units aren't gong from 1 to 4 so fast.

Eldar are getting more buffs in 1.5, the list has been posted. You are going to get MUCH better banshees, and I am looking for a way to put Striking Scorpions in so you can get a heavy infantry melee tank squad.

Edit: Sorry for taking off during the game last night, I was on the phone with my boss and had to go in to work. I'll be on tonight tho, and I don't have to work tomorrow, so we can get a lot of changes done.

[Wortverdreher]

But be careful with better banshees otherwise there will be the old discussion about Banshees being better than ASMs but with lower costs.

And:
Yes Teddy, Pods are a funny way to deal with swarms. How I would like to have the global ability "Foot of the Titan"...

[mortisorlp]

Eldar are getting more buffs in 1.5, the list has been posted. You are going to get MUCH better banshees, and I am looking for a way to put Striking Scorpions in so you can get a heavy infantry melee tank squad.

Edit: Sorry for taking off during the game last night, I was on the phone with my boss and had to go in to work. I'll be on tonight tho, and I don't have to work tomorrow, so we can get a lot of changes done.

Striking Scorpions eh?

Still no luck with Fire Dragons? That would be really really useful too?

No probs about last night, I will be on later too (well, quite soon actually ) Although I will have to take a quick break around 9ish to phone the GF.

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

ASMs will still be the best t1 melee infantry, hands down. A banshee squad versus an ASM squad will see the ASM's down to 2 guys and the banshees dead.

If they howl they can win, if they get jumped on they will get murdered, but if either squad gets fire support it will be decisive.

ASM will be significantly tougher than banshees and do more total dps, because Eldar field a lot more troops than SM and real fights in this game don't happen in a sandbox environment.

A fight with Scorpions, when they are implemented, will go about the same, but will last longer. Scorpions will be much better for tanking sluggas, gaunts etc., whereas Shees will be for rushing the synapse creatures/heroes for a quick gank.

[Wortverdreher]

A general question:

Do I have to "reinstall" the mod if Relic patches the game?

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

No, but I may need to make a new .ucs file.

[xenanator]

First things first.

I love this mod and the overall idea - woot - thumbs up Gab...

Now well I just started testing yesterday and I have yet to get a decent idea of the mod but I can say that I currently feel that the predator tank unit should have it's rate of fire reduced on the turret and damage increased to compensate as it is a pain in the but to look at the screen and see all the explotions currently. hehehe. Also needs fixing on the heavy bolters...

Consider adding Honourguard marine squad?

Techmarine has too many options which I am sure you are aware of already, etc. you cannot use the shield on him...

[Fulcaris]

in TT you cant use a honour guard squad unless you have a chapter master but in fluff they are known(by themselves not in a squad) to be advisors for both spacemarine and imperial guard commanders

[NexAngelus]

Consider adding Honourguard marine squad?

umm i dont think that is nessecary to add another elite unit for the SM at this point, as it is the Sternguard and Vanguard are vry dangerous for anybody playing against them.

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

Chapter Masters and Honor Guards would be difficult to balance, as would the Baneblade and Land Raider. This game is more about elite deployments of Space Marines versus hordes of Orkz and Nids, with the shifty Eldar sticking their noses into Imperial affairs in a commando-type operation.

The Honor Guard, Chapter Master, and various super-units are more for Epic-scale games. We could certainly make large new maps and a high-popcap game mode for epic battles later on, but for now we must balance the current level of gameplay.

[Tyrant of Badab]

dumb question but is this a MP only mod? caus this would be amazing for SP!(explosive bolter rounds are very impressive visually i must say)

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

ONCE mp is finished, I will mod the SP campaign. I am also going to add a custom campaign, based around the doomed Flesh Tearers chapter.

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

1.5 is completely finished except for hotkeys, .ucs fixes, and the bug where certain clickies don't go on cooldown.

[Ahonen]

Glad to hear it, thanks for the fast work.

[mortisorlp]

excellent news Gorgutz. cant wait to get my hands on it. Do we have Striking Scorpions and dare i wish it Fire Dragons in this one?

Thanks again, brilliant mod. Trying to get the word out to anybody who will listen.

[Teddybigboyz]

can't wait to test 1.5 and the new WSE !

[Wortverdreher]

Is there a way to enable the player to select unit A via Ctrl+1 and unit B with Ctrl+2 and both oft them with Ctrl+3. As it is now you can only assign one number (Ctrl+1,2,3, etc.) to one group of units. Sometimes for example I want to move all my troops which would be easier pressing one button instead of four, sometimes I only want to move a part of my army.

That's not something very important, but I think this mod is already improving DoW II in many aspects so I posted it. Maybe you can do something about it.

Yay 1.5!

[Tyrant of Badab]

Gabriel Gorgutz thats wonderful news.the flesh tearers is an intersting choice of chapters,very interesting.

[Gabriel Gorgutz]

BIG QUESTION for multiplayer: Should base-building return?

There are enough things in the building ebps folders to make some level of base building and tech-tree possible.

With larger maps to allow for hiding bases, we could potentially make a compromise between dow 1/coh style base building and the current "rally 'round the webway gate/brood nest" forward base mechanic of Codex Edition.

Once we get balance ironed out this month for good, we can start to add new game modes and victory conditions. What do you all think?

[Wortverdreher]

No. I'm against the standard base building. Every RTS has base building. And you have so many clickies per unit in your DowII-Version that you don't need an additional tech-tree.

But I would like to have something to fortify req-points. Maybe something like the turrets in Dow I. Or give us some bunkers where you can heal your troops and buy new squad members if you've lost some (maybe restricted: only 3 per player). But think of the Razorback losing it's role on the battlefield.

Edit: I just saw you suggested this compromise. Then that, I think, will be a good thing. But consider fortifications for req-points.

What about a builder unit like the servitor which has the ability to repair buildings and vehicles and to build bunkers etc.?

[gejsiv]

I think base building would be an excellent mode along side conquest and annihilate. It could use the larger maps and have a higher pop cap to support the more epic scale battles, while the current modes feel more like quick insertion commando stuff than a war front.

One thing that comes to mind is that with base building you could give the players a large amount of requisition and power and then have no req points on the map. Give a set time for setup so everyone can build their units before the match starts, and then play it more like you would in table top.

Regardless, I'm all for base building as long as it doesn't interrupt the balance we already have in the game.

[SovereignReigns]

So long as it does not screw up the kommando-type battles we have now, I can see base building being implimented in a bigger and MOAR EPIC game mode.

Go for it.

[Teddybigboyz]

no base building , turret en relay would be fine but only if they cost recquisition and pop cap.

[DeusImperator]

Base building? Meh.
Only as a game mod, not for standard.

[Dux]

There are some really nice ideas in this mod, but it lacks polish. Still, my hat goes off to the creator.

[MarkDawg]

I get no pleasure from base building just the units and upgrades you get from them so I see it as unnecessary. Now if you added adepts & servitors to build defences that would be cool.

[SpardaSon21]

Base building wouldn't be a bad game mode. I like the idea of larger maps with larger unit caps, so we could have epic battles instead of small commando raids. More buildings also means more build slots available.