I recently received Company of Heroes as a Christmas gift (unfortunately I've been unable to play it as of yet). However, from what I've gathered, Americans are a generally terrible faction choice. Any reason why they might be considered so?
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I recently received Company of Heroes as a Christmas gift (unfortunately I've been unable to play it as of yet). However, from what I've gathered, Americans are a generally terrible faction choice. Any reason why they might be considered so?
Play the game and make up your own mind.
#3
However, from what I've gathered, Americans are a generally terrible faction choice
Huh? I must have missed something..
Now thát's a Knight's Cross.
While many find it hard to play as it is a very aggressive faction, it is in no way "sucky" and "generally terrible faction choice" is plain false.
However, as stated above, you would have to make up your own mind on it.
#5
Alavian, I'm not exactly sure how you'd expect an answer on why the American faction "sucks" when you haven't even played the game or elaborated on how you've gathered such a notion.
#6
Play the game dude... read guides in boot camp. watch replays. americans are very good and also easiest to learn/play.
then if you have questions. post it here.... that what forum is for.... some one will sure help
The US faction is by far the weakest in this game considering their Wehr counterpart is completely superior in every weapon that can be made.
This ranges from Vet, to the mortar, all the way to the tanks (and AT weaponry for that matter). Anyone who disagrees needs to really ask themselves what does US have that is actually BETTER then Wehrmact? (And don't say BAR's cuz the mg42 is the easy counter to that).
Before you go off saying that I am a US fanboy, keep in mind that I play all races and am atleast lvl 12 with all.
However, I do have to say that you do need to play the game first.
#8
Well I play the coh that has four armies, in wich US is a good second when it comes to strength.
#9
Admiral work. dont demoralize the guy.. he just bought the game... he has long way to go before he gets into USA vs Wehr Balance issues.
Alavian first thing i would say is learn about Flanking with US rifleman.
also US vs PE = Autowin US (assuming players of same skills)
also regarding Bar's vs mg42. well all i got to say that every thing in COH has counter. so comparison of Bars vs Mg42 is in correct as they just different type, beating Bars with Mg42 is skill. yeah i would have agreed if you said storms with 2 MP44 upgrade > bars.
regarding what US has better.
i guess triage center which heals all kind of unit (including partners), so you dont have to buy individual vets for each type.
US snipers dances less before counter sniping that's my observation could be wrong
US RR are the best hand held AT.
US Vet 3 Rangers with STG are supposed to be best infantry (that's what most people at your Level say. you can correct me if i am wrong saying that). dont say flamers counter them-every thing has counter.
US rifleman capping speed of 1.5 is highest.
US Calliopies are best arty
ah every ones favorite "Strafe" that does not even alerts before firing. dont say Vet on infantry with med bunker counter that - every thing has counter
well US does have some goodies in their bag. though i definatly agree to you that Wehr has more.
also i am no US fanboy i play Wehr more.
Remember, I asked what is BETTER then wehr, not what good units that US has.i guess triage center which heals all kind of unit (including partners), so you dont have to buy individual vets for each type.
US snipers dances less before counter sniping that's my observation could be wrong
US RR are the best hand held AT.
US Vet 3 Rangers with STG are supposed to be best infantry (that's what most people at your Level say. you can correct me if i am wrong saying that). dont say flamers counter them-every thing has counter.
US rifleman capping speed of 1.5 is highest.
US Calliopies are best arty
ah every ones favorite "Strafe" that does not even alerts before firing. dont say Vet on infantry with med bunker counter that - every thing has counter
Triage center is a building, not a unit, Wehr units heal on their own over time with vet on the field unless you pay for a med pack.
The Wehr vet system is whats broken with this game.
Snipers are both the same.
RR's are NOT the best handheld AT, shreks dominate (also dont forget RR pass through bug on pumas)
Vet 3 rangers....good luck keeping them alive to get there and flamers dont just counter them, they destroy them.
Capping speed is an advantage of the ONLY combat foot unit that US can make, however this unit is pretty much worthless once Wehr vet kicks in. Too expensive to maintain and to reinforce.
Calliopes are commander/doctrine specific ONLY, and its part of a doctrine that is just overall terrible and has been nerfed to hell. Walking stuka's and Nebels are far superior and are NOT doctrine specific and not only suppress but also burn the ground doing plenty of damage over time to any unit not retreated immediately.
Strafe costs 150 munitions and yes at vet 3 (which all Wehr players including myself go for), it does nothing but pin....throw in "for the fatherland" and it pretty much does nothing to units.
The game is completely and totally imbalanced towards Wehr.
Also, US vs PE is not an autowin as you say it is, PE are NOT underpowered....I can show you plenty of replays. My favorite is slowing a FULL health rifle squad on retreat and sending in 2 squads of stg44 units and laugh as the entire rifle squad gets wiped out.....GG relic.
#11
My favorite is slowing a FULL health rifle squad on retreat and sending in 2 squads of stg44 units and laugh as the entire rifle squad gets wiped out
So 3 squads to kill one squad.. Then this, yesterday I played a game PE vs US, and the opponent had a squad of para's capping a point way behind the lines. I send in a squad wich I just upgraded wich some mp44's to disturb the capping, strafing comes in, WHAP, squad gone. Two minutes later, same crap. If having 3 squads taking out a retreating squad is BS then that sure as hell is too. Every faction has some BS.
I can give you some really good PE replays too, thats not the point, but you need to put in a lot more effort to win as PE vs US than US vs PE.
Amis, I would actually say are the second most powerful faction. Faction Power is as below, from strongest to weakest:
Wehrmacht
Americans
British
PE
Wehrmacht is the strongest because they have a lot of units that are boarderline OP, or just plain OP. They also have few weaknesses.
Americans are still strong, primarily because they have a well-rounded army. That army may suck, but at least if they need something (like a Mortar), they have it. Their non-doctrine sucks but in most cases doctrine usually makes up for it.
British and PE are both very weak ever since the massive nerffest that was 2.400. However, what sets the British above the PE is that the PE got screwed by Tales of Valor, while the British actually got it good (the Kangaroo is currently the most OP unit in the game).
In terms of Ami units vs Wehr units:
Engineers < Pioneers
Riflemen > Volksgrenadiers
.30 Cal < MG42
Ami Mortar < Wehr Mortar
Ami Sniper = Wehr Sniper
M8/T17 > Puma
57mm < PAK
Ami Halftrack < Wehr Halftrack
Sherman < Panzer IV
Ostwind < Sherman Croc
M10 < Panther
As you can see, Wehrmacht core doctrine is usually much stronger than Ami core doctrine. But, its really not that bad. As others have said, you have to play the game to see for yourself.
Group Zeal + 4 man squad upgrade will keep your squads alive from strafe.
Strafe is the only thing US has going for them against PE, as I said, I have no problems playing PE vs US. While granted I do lose from time to time, its usually because I made a dumb mistake
#14
Thanks Nanaki for summing up nicely.
well that was my whole point US is not that bad they do have some cookies too, even though i agreed Wehr is better overall.
when the game first came out in 06 it was only Americans and wehr. Americans had the power then. You guys remember the sherman smoke bug? Bar suppression was awesome back then. Along came OF and the power went to PE and Brits. Well now its wehr turn.Why do the Americans suck in Company of Heroes?
oh come on, you deleted the funny part, lol
There's a difference between "funny" and "asinine". Funny you were not. -Adonis
Last edited by Adonis; 31st Dec 09 at 1:36 AM.
Who said
“I don’t want to see any snipers back here as POWs. There not going to kill our people then surrender at the last moment”
well i find theres no real way to rank the power of the factions bc when i play as ami my favorite faction i kick pe ass but struggle a majority of the time vs wehr bc of the slippery slope of wehr late game. I play brits i have a bit more trouble with pe but wehr is always easier.
It all comes down to personal preferance. As people have said gotta choose yourself. Me i love the americans but i might not be as good with them as i am with the brits as my play style seems a bit more well rounded with the brits.
I'm not sure if i remember this right but i remember the sherman being pretty good to. for a little while it was almost COH:tank wars. since then we've gone through shreck, arty, and blob wars haha Strafe fits in somewhere with blob and arty i thinkhaha
What forthefries says about personal preference is very true, as evidenced by the fact that my factions, from best to worst, are as follows...
British
PE
American
Wehrmacht
...almost completely flipping Nanaki's list on its head...
It freaks me out to no end that you've literally been visiting the forums regularly while rarely posting, just waiting for a moment like this. Lol.The US faction is by far the weakest in this game considering their Wehr counterpart is completely superior in every weapon that can be made.
This ranges from Vet, to the mortar, all the way to the tanks (and AT weaponry for that matter). Anyone who disagrees needs to really ask themselves what does US have that is actually BETTER then Wehrmact? (And don't say BAR's cuz the mg42 is the easy counter to that).
Before you go off saying that I am a US fanboy, keep in mind that I play all races and am atleast lvl 12 with all.
However, I do have to say that you do need to play the game first.
But we love CoH, it's by far the best RTS game I've ever played. Every rose has its thorns, except CoH's thorns are more like laser guided serrated switch blades. - Painmuffin
You make me rofl. American = need to micro. Wehr = need to micro, and hold out until the end when crazy vetted units roll out and nebels.Originally Posted by Captain Trek
PE = spam and it fails to 1 strafe
Brits = Spam, fails to pio spam early on
2v2 Ranked/1v1 Ranked
American - 16/12
Wehrmacht - 12/8
Panzer Elite - 13/1
British - 16/1
I'm not sure I quite understand you, Krieg... I don't spam, I'm what you could call an honest Britsh and PE player... I play well balanced non-spammy armies for both...
Indeed, I used to blow rocks at PE even more massively than I blow rocks at Wehrmacht now... But ultimately I figured out how to use the PE's unusual tech tree to best effect, resulting in a balanced army of G43s, shrecks, infantry halftracks, AT halftracks, PIV ISTs and falls or hetzers depending on what I need later on in the game...
Why is "spam" a dirty word?
The units can be massed for whatever purpose you want. There is a counter for everything.
I guess, then, that it is not ok for four or five German tanks to roll into an area of battle or into someone's base?
The problem with PE and Brits is that they do not have a well-balanced army at all. They usually have unbalanced strengths and weaknesses, and anyone half-competant playing Wehr/Ami will take full advantage of Brit/PE Weaknesses and there is not a damn thing the Brit/PE player can do about it, considering how inflexible their armies are.I'm not sure I quite understand you, Krieg...
#23
Can we stick to answering the OPs question? If not, then I think it's safe to say that the thread has run its course.
I was pretty sure you were gonna look it after Alpine's second post, which summed it up nicely. Beyond that it's just an invitation to have a wild argument thread.
Play the game, form your own opinion, post relevant balance issues if you find them.
The US Sniper moves faster while beeing camoed.
Also, please also think of unit prices.
Only with Vet, and with Vet the Wehr sniper shoots much faster. All in all, they are about the same, it used to be that the US Sniper's defining feature was the 0.9 received accuracy, which allowed the US Sniper to better countersnipe the Wehr Sniper, but now that the received accuracy bonus is gone, the two snipers are practically the same.The US Sniper moves faster while beeing camoed.
#27
americans are great, they arent generally weak and usually have a much easier game then others
1v1 and 2v2s work in completely different strats. if u were to go 1v1, americans are well, pretty weak compared to wehr, then u probably want to heed admiralwok's post.
but in a 2v2, americans are far from weak, especially with a brit. they have many units under their disposal that are extremely effective and as well as good old riflemen. examples are paras, m8, calliopes. also american doctrines works differently to wehr's. american docs are required to win the game, as they are considered pivotal. ur riflemen would want support from paras against light armour or require specialized anti infantry from rangers. while u can generally win a game with/without doctrine in wehr.
Americans are overpowered, it has taken me atleast 4 hits from a tiger too knock out a sherman calliope, when in RL an 88mm could easily penetrate and destroy a shermans weak armor and yes in CoH the tigers rounds were bouncing off the calliopes front armor.
Calliope x2 > Tiger I - what the hell?
US is indeed a great faction, with a lot better field presence than Wehr. Players who try playing US defensively are going to lose and then chalk up the loss to sucky units. Total bull. If the US's units are used in their proper role -- attack -- then it's the Wehr player who'll be complaining.
Their units are an excellent balance of economy and lethality. Fuel-centered global upgrades grant abilities that keep your riflemen relevant to the mid and late game, and save munitions for said abilities. Also: Paras. Rangers. Calliopes. 3 exotic flavors of unmitigated rape.
Players who think US is crap need lessons on attacking targets and preserving the flow of an offensive. It may surprise some, but the US doesn't actually need as much micro for competent play as their main opponent the Wehr does. You be on the receiving end of a decent US player's assault and you'll soon find yourself wondering where all your territory went.
The thing about US is they're more forgiving. It does come at the cost of some firepower, but their units are typically easy to keep alive, and easy to replace (at least in comparison to other teams).
Especially when you take their doctrine abilities into account, with increased build speed for armor/infantry or reinforce anywhere for Paradrops, plus the biggest squad size in the game (6) which allows for easy retreats. And fireup on the elites, fastest tanks, to get you out of tight spots quickly...
They're a great learning team.
Still- don't worry about balance at all while you are new. Balance only really starts coming into play at the very high levels in my oppinion. Of course it has an effect on the lower-level play, but it'll come down to more about who knows what, and who can control their guys better.
wok. what the fuck. he hasnt played the game, he's asking why his friend told him americans suck as a faction. you might as well ask a mod to post a sticky saying "dont join this forum this game is trash. go away"
why would you even bring a balance rant into this?
honestly, your friend probably told you the americans suck because you need to think on your toes a lot more often than with the other factions. your friend probably couldnt do that and so thinks theyre a crummy faction. the americans are a fun faction and really give you the whole "coh" feel when you play them. their play style is completely dependent on their doctrine choice, effectively making them into 3 different factions. they depend the most heavily on flanking and proper spacing of units, along with cover and special ability use. shit. now i feel like playing again. ooooooh, nastalgia.
but as a beginner i would recommend either the british or the panzer elite. theyre the factions that play the most "gamey", sort of like other rts' out there.
The game isn't realistic in one unit match up that you randomly listed, and thats justification for US being OP? Callis don't even have guns. Nothing in the game is realistic damage, if it was the entire game would have to be rebalanced.Americans are overpowered, it has taken me atleast 4 hits from a tiger too knock out a sherman calliope, when in RL an 88mm could easily penetrate and destroy a shermans weak armor and yes in CoH the tigers rounds were bouncing off the calliopes front armor.
Calliope x2 > Tiger I - what the hell?
Anyways the US faction is pretty flawed, they face super tanks and have no non-doc inf AT, pathetic overpriced tanks with worse vet, and an inferior AT gun, as well as no non-doc arty, when Wehr has all of this off the bat, not to mention vet that is better in many cases that you simply buy. What US has going for it is that it takes Wehr time to get out its heavy hitters and vet, while you can be spamming rifles and flame engies and getting map control. Into late game your prety much screwed unless you have amazing micro and unit preservation otherwise you going to lose an attrition war every time against Wehr.
I didn´t played MP since 2.301 but when you can get map cantrol with rifle spam and flame engies, you should have a fair chance that your numbers are superiour enough to beat Wehr´s superior late game units.
I will use Google before I ask dumb questions!
That is exactly what Allies have that are superior to Axis in CoH: Numbers.
Also, Riflemen can do anything, including kiss my ass. But don't tell them that because they would.
So yeah, US is easy. Designed to be easy. Not a challenge. Axis is a challenge to play because they were designed to lose. Pretty obvious.
If you don't buy the game you're passing up the best strat game ever. HaH.
Hoping CoH2 Ships With Worldbuilder....
Since you've missed all the wonderfull patches, it's no longer quite as easy as it was in 2.301.I didn´t played MP since 2.301 but when you can get map cantrol with rifle spam and flame engies, you should have a fair chance that your numbers are superiour enough to beat Wehr´s superior late game units.
Rifles are more expensive to reinforce now with 27 MP per guy as oposed to 23 MP that we used to pay.
Elite infantry call ins eat up more upkeep and are more expensive to reinforce. The fireup is no longer viable to flank the armor, as your troops lose LOS and are winded afterwards.
PAK owns armor as it gets 3 first strike bonus shots instead of just one.
MP40 Volks can stand up to BARs in close quaters. Assault Nades stun the troops, which prevents you from retreating, it's almost like the slow fire from PE in 2.301.
Strafe doesn't kill as it used to.
The only saving grace is that you get slightly quicker vet with your rifles and PE no longer melts your face at a 5 minute mark.
So overall, it requires a whole lot more skill to get a win against a Whermacht opponent, and if you don't get the win before he hits T4, you are pretty much boned.
You know for all the discussion about comparing the "stats" between the wehr and american, I think there is a missing element.
Of 500 games that I've played, my best win-ratio is with the Americans. Why? Dunno, I don't have the "numbers" to support why. But I'll say, IMO they have the best overall infantry in the game. Easily replaceable bars, best capping power, great AT and special abilities.
I personally use nothing but infantry, skip wsc and rely on airborne supply drops for my heavy weapons, and use the M8 to drop mines and avoid Paks.
Core to my strategy is keeping units alive and reinforcing as little as possible, putting outposts on high munitions, and capping as much as possible.
U.S. works for me as the best faction in the game, regardless of how many comparison battles the Wehr win. IMHO
I think all of the factions are good but need the proper strategies and tactics, although the Wehr is still overpowered because of it's number of units and easy veterancy.
Also British have gained a massive disadvantage with their stupid veterancy.
List of Preference:
Wehrmacht
Americans - Panzer Elite -British
They need to give some Wehrmacht units to the Panzer Elite like the regular Panzer IV or Stug IV.
Also, I know why your friend said that Americans are underpowered, he doesn't know good tactics just like i didn't used to, i sucked because i always rushed for the armour which was usually really weak. The Infantry is amazing and Doctrine is VERY important, just like the British.
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#38
Since this thread started off with a very poor opening, and the original poster hasn't been taking part in the thread at all, I think we are done here.
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heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'
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