Path to Victory (Alpha 0.0.7.1 - and an official good-bye)

[mololu]

Thank you!

I think with all the muddle in my head, I've lost sight of the obvious. Particularly the point of not counting on high numbers but still dealing crushing blows when they attack.

Implementation is already beginning.

Another update for the Keepers of Amun, the Harbinger.

Image

Staying with the sceme used for the Vaygr and Hiigarans, the Harbinger gets a weapons choice, the Plasma Battery designed for disabling its targets, allowing the main cannon to target them more efficiently while the Ion Cannon allows it to deal more damage to its targets but lacking the disabling effects.

[TonyOneBlairoby]

Bha, main part of my thoughs are from my experience in hw2 campaign. Some other people may have feel the way keepers are, different.

In my mind, the most obvious good point of keeper is uber hyperespace control.

[mololu]

Another point that i'm playing with right at the moment, trying to find out how to make that play out fairly.

What you say however is important as it gives me a view I don't have (or no longer have) after playing the keepers so many times.

[mololu]

I had an idea for the Keeper Harbinger which may or may not be worth implementing.

Basically, the carrier would be removed and the harbinger given the option to build production modules. So essentially the harbinger can be either used as a combat ship or as a production ship, depending on which subsystems you build.

This would mean the Keepers lose their dedicated production ship but gain more flexibility, fitting to their dedicated offensive and mobile style of play.

[gthompsn]

I like that: production or combat, not both...

[mololu]

As promised, the Harbinger update, now capable of building ships and selecting between several subsystems that allow corvette or frigate production or increased damage.

With the Harbinger working as a battlecruiser/carrier hybrid, the Keepers loose their dedicated carrier unit.

Image

[adamstrange]

I never really cared about the other races in HW2.

The ships were never really all that cool to look at ,let alone even play with.

Though mololu ship's are really good,I would prefer to have ships from other races.

I would like to see the ships from ORB & Wing Commander both placed into the game.

[tadamir]

Not having really gotten far enough in the HW2 Campaign to tussle with these folks, I'm a little unfamiliar with this ship; where is the rear module? I can't make it out.
Although I do like the idea!

[mololu]

The rear module is just below the stripe on the bottom side of the ship (between the two prongs that hang down). It's kind of hard to show in the images as the changes were kept minimal (I didn't want the subsystems to stick out too much, it being a combat ship and all).

I hope this image helps:



As for other races, while I really like many concepts across several scifi universes, I have to set limits someplace. For this mod, I really want to stay true to the Homeworld universe as much as I can. I've more than enough work cut out for me anyways (assuming I ever get it all done before I give up).

[tadamir]

Aha, thank you Mololu that does help a lot.
I thought those were the spots but wasn't sure, you've done a very good job of keeping them subtle and 'fitting'.
Great work!

[mololu]

Another Keeper update, replacing the Swarmer drone with a ship that has more of the keeper combat mentality to it, the Devestator Drone

image devestator

Unit Description:

Produced after analyzing early Space Fighter concepts from before the first Homeworld War, the Devestator was a successful attempt at creating a smaller sized combat drone to defend Keeper capital ships from enemy fighter squadrons.

Equipped with a fairly rudimentaty AI and average armor, the Devestator is the smallest Keeper Drone but makes up for it's small size in its weapons armament which is designed to combat enemy fighters and corvettes with ease. While not suited for operations against enemy capital ships, the Devestator will make short work of any smaller ships it comes across.


Edit: Rather than making this a new post, I'm adding this on here, updated graphics for the Keeper Sleeper.

image sleeper

Purpose of the ship will be fairly similar to the original only it won't work as a carrier but rather as the keeper mothership. It's internal bays are capable of producing anything up to the size of a frigate. Larger capital ships are hyperspaced in after the hyperspace uplink is built.

(cough, this is just me cheating my way out of having to make a mothership large enough to fit the damned sajuuk model)

What really defines the Sleeper is the fact it can hardly move without the use of it's internal hyperspace drive. However it can hyperspace anywhere with only minimal cost and - to make things better, anything close enough to the Sleeper to use it's hyperdrive can also hyperspace at a greatly reduced cost.

[TonyOneBlairoby]

Wow truly sweet!

[gthompsn]

Yes! I do hope you will have both the "new" and "old" looking versions of these ships.

[mololu]

At present, not really. I may be making 'new' versions down the line but having to texture every ship twice was beginning to piss me off so for now it's just one version.

Obviously this is something one could change in future.

[adamstrange]

Excellent design mololu but as a thought, I really hope you place buildable weapons turrets on the bottom of those four pads on the Sleeper and as well as on those octagon looking pads near the front side of the ship.

[mololu]

Which octagonal pads do you mean? The idea of buildable weapons for the sleeper intrigues me. It would make the ship like a large version of the Keeper.

The bottom slots are for production and module systems, as this screen shows.

image

[adamstrange]

The bottom slots are for production and module systems,

Oh I didn't know that.

Well this is what I would do to the ship.

SHIP UNDERSIDE

Extend the ship and place those pads, behind the modules and in front of the modules.

The back section would have 5 turrets, 1 that would face the rear,2 that face outward on the left and 2 that would face outward on the right.

The outward facing turrets would have to have their firing arcs adjusted so that they don't fire on each other and into the ship.

The turrets place to the front of the modules would be the the same.

SHIP TOP SIDE

2 Turrets just over this launch bay would face outward but would never turn inward so I guess they would have 90 degree firing arcs and the same would go for the front side turrets.

I guess this is an earlier version of the ship so I would still add the turrets in the places that I suggested and I don't think that this can be done but just for fantasy sake,imagine this rear section having an animated bay [like the vgr heavy missile frigate's animation] that would open and a larger turret would come down and have a massive blast that would take out a ship with 2 hits then retract back in for 2 to 3 minutes to reload.

[mololu]

I like the turret ideas. I'm not certain how many will end up being implemented but it's a task for me to go at next (the thing really deserves some armament).

I really wish homeworld had a more 'practical' animation system. Mads just don't agree with me.

You could do so much with a few nice animations, bring everything alive just a little more...

</end wishful thinking>

[adamstrange]

Well if you really want to take wishful thinking to another level...

Imagine having a shipyard that when you build a ship,you actually see it being built from the bottom of the hull up to the top of the ship with dozens of micro units that look like collectors working on the ship.

Anyway how many races are you planning for this mod mololu ?

[jkberna]

Like in cata were you saw the big ships beying built outside the angar?? that was awfull... there was a demo i played once, i think it was called hegemonia, they add scatfolds where the ships were built, that was nice. but a mix between those 2 would be really cool...

[adamstrange]

there was a demo i played once, i think it was called hegemonia, they add scatfolds where the ships were built

OH CRAP...I just realized that I have that game and never played it.

I'm going to check it out after I finish my mods.

[Pouk]

Haegemonia has a lot of big reasons why not to play it.
Unitcaps: Not in the HW2 style like 14 fighters, 22 Frigates etc. But 10 ships/squadrons (I think 15 at most). So you have fighters, then you research the corvettes. They beat fighters so you replace you fleet with corvettes. Then the cruisers come, they're stronger so you'll replace everything with cruisers. Then the battleships come and of course there's no reason to have anything but battleships.
Combat: Larger units are stronger, just always. And if you have 1 on 1 fight with the same units, it all depends on research, what weapons do you have, how good armor do you have.
Units: There are very few combat units. Like two or one for each class. And those two always looks the same except the main weapon. You have strong forward facing or turret against smaller units.

But there are a few pros:
-Great graphics for the time.
-Phenomenal music (at least that's how I remember it)
-Very deep research
-Planet management
-Spies

So basically it's mostly about how many planets do you have, how is your economy and mostly, what did you research. Combat is just pretty bad.
Still, I think it could be good to play it once, it will be great at first, but if you'll go deeper (skirmishes, multiplayer), expect dissapointment.

[adamstrange]

Thanks Pouk.

[mololu]

Adam, concerning your question about races, I don't plan to add any more new races but we'll see what happens.

I've never heard of nor played that game but concerning construction animations, it would be cool. If only it were possible...

[KeyBored]

This building thing, was used in armada/armada 2 and the ships were built polygon by polygon, and it was programmed into the source code (otherwise i would have changed it to build it section by section, probably defined in the alpha channel)

Unforunately, i dont think there is a way to show ships being built in HW2, i personally think they "hyperspace" in, which is harcoded to be invisible, inside the ship then they follow the dockpath.

[MelvinVM]

you can however, make a FX where you see blue sparks coming out of the hangar when the ships are being build, which gives the same idea of seeing that a shipyard or carrier is working to build.

[mololu]

That's actually a really good idea which I'll look into using sometime in the next few days (i hope). The only issue I see is triggering the effect at the right times.

[Rusty]

Very cool keeper race, I'd make them look even a bit more battered, and give them a few half-functional ships as well to give the other races a fighting chance against them. (maybe even some selectable debris or something?)

Nice work!

[mololu]

half-functional ships

What exactly are you thinking of when you say this? I like the idea, just don't really know what/how to implement it.

[adamstrange]

Mololu i have the latest release and there are a lot of slots that have no description as to what your building.

Like on the Hgn BC has a Utility section and the first slot has a new icon but no description.

[mololu]

Uhh, that's odd. They have descriptions when I look at them.

Does HW2 have any inherit problems with localisation? I've heard of this a few times but I really don't know why it happens or what might be causing it :/

Any ideas anyone?

[Djodar]

hey adamstrange didnt you have problems with the localisation in my mod too?? maybe something is wrong at your side.

locals works fine for me !

[mololu]

I know updates have slowed slightly this week.

I've finished the Keeper's team colors (though for now there is no 'old' and 'new' keeper Texture. All the ships use the older brown textures, mostly because I don't have time to make all the duplicate textures.

There will still be differences between the two factions ships however.

Hopefully this weekend and the following week will give me time to finish the last few Keeper ships.

[S110]

I ran into a few things when I was on my little decompiling mission. I'll download the release and take a look.

Edit: Apart from a slightly eccentric string numbering scheme in BuildResearch.ucs, I didn't note anything that would cause anything to have localization errors. Playtest found no locale isssues either. Adam, are you using this with any other mods present?

[mololu]

Hehe.

The 'slightly eccentric' numbering was an attempt to avoid conflitcs with existring strings (using a completely different range).

Good to know it works though. Just makes me wonder what might cause this to happen on certain computers. I really have no clue why as it doesn't make any sense to me.

Edit: Forgot to add this.

The Keeper Deciever, their version of the capture frigate. It can disable sensors, navigaitonal computers and recudes EMP shield recover time of enemy ships close to it.

Can also introduce a computer virus into enemy ships, forcing them to operate under keeper control.

image

[gthompsn]

I really like that. Good work.

[tadamir]

Is it too soon to ask for a Fleet Parade screenshot?
I'd like to get a better picture of your new Keeper stuff lined up with the old stuff,
sense of scale etc.
Maybe some counterpart comparisons; Deceiver next to an Infiltrator as an example?
Moar candy!

[mololu]

The Keepers are still missing the reaver and a probe of some sort (the old one looks really crap). As soon as those two are done I can do some parade shots.

[mololu]

I don't really enjoy double posting but updates do deserve a thread bump.

Presenting the Keeper Reaver, a cruiser class ship armed with an advanced version of the Phased Ion Array that can project multiple smaller beams and one larger beam at the same times in many directions.

This ship was designed soley for one purpose: Destroying anything in front of it and it does that pretty well. It's only real weakness is it's inability to target anything behind it.

Image

[Baroness]

good worke !!!!

[adamstrange]

hey adamstrange didnt you have problems with the localisation in my mod too??

I rsn through several mods including the Complex & TFS mod and and none of them have this problem except for this mod and Djodar's mod.

In fact the TFS had the largest number of ships of all the HW2 mods and all the info is there on each an every ship.

Though I have my mod's folders in my DATA folder,then maybe this is causing it but it doesn't do that with any other mod.

[Djodar]

thats strange adamstrange...

jea i realy like the ship mololu. but i did notice that the fireing mesh is a litle bit to yellow or am i wrong. hmm have to look at it ingame on your later realeses. and i find the source at the rear to smal.

[mololu]

The source is indeed kind of small and yes it is a bit too yellow.

Personally the small source doesn't bother me that much, the yellow does, meaning yellow will be fixed (originally it looked better until I retextured it x_x).

Adam, I don't have the faintest clue why this is happening. The only thing I can think is that I'm using really high numbers for the strings to avoid conflicts but that can't be it either... seems extremely odd in my oppinion as only some people have this. Clearly it has something to do with the localization being loaded but more than that I cannot say.

On another note, I posted this on ModDB a moment ago and was wondering what you guys over here think:

Thinking far, far ahead, I've been considering a fourth race to this mod. This would also come in line with a rework of the way the current factions work (each side will get a different faction system).

Adding another side would also give me a far-away goal to keep working towards, which I need to keep my idea engine up and running. Right now I feel like I have maybe 5 more ships to make, a few UI and gameplay changes to make, then I'm done... and I don't want to be done.
On the other hand I don't want to overload the existing sides with endless numbers of ships... so a fourth race is being considered.

The question I'd like to ask is: Who would you like to see in Path To Victory? Possibilities are: Bentusi, Kadeshi, Taiidan or anything else you can think of.

Please note this is not definitive yet in any way, shape or form.

[aquemnun]

kadesh! kadesh! I vote for kadesh!

personal taste aside, they all have features I'm sure many would like to see in your mod.

Taiidani: have a full roster of ship designs and models to work from, making this an easy task (plus you may get help from the classic taidanii remodelling project).

bentusi: are a rarely modded race, due to having only 3 ships throughout the entire series. However, the last return mod has some interesting designs you could work from. There are also a rather large number of bentusi fans who would love to see a successful bentusi mod

kadeshi: Have few ships, and were only seen in 2 missions. They are, however, rather awesome, due to both their abilities and design. There are quite a lot of kadeshi fans (not sure how many now, but I remember there being LOADS) and there is currently only 1 mod adding new ships to the kadeshi (being the FX mod which still uses hw1 models for them) and a minimod, the requiem war kadesh minimod (which only has the ships from HW1).

[MatthCoFreak]

I vote Kadesh too. There are already a few Bentusi mods, and the Kadeshi only have the Requiem War demo, which dead and not even free to dig up and re-use. However, if you choose Taiidani, you may be able to collaborate with the Classical Taiidani Remodelling project.

[adamstrange]

I don't follow the other races but I've seen some nice ship designs other than the Hgn or Vgr but from what I have seen ,the Taiidani have the best looking ships.

In my opinion,if I knew how to model I would just take it a step further,and do something that no one else has done before [well except for me but not released yet]...create a Hybrid race.

Build ships that have features of both Taiidani & Kadeshi.

Or just bring in races from other games or universes,my preference would be the ships from Wing Commander since they look like giant submarines but I think you mentioned that you wanted to keep it Homeworld.

In case you change your mind another thought is to bring in the races from both the old and the new Battlestar Galactica series.
This should push your mod to the edge

[TonyOneBlairoby]

The problem with kadesh, is that they don't really need fleet regarding how they act.

It don't seem that they know very much about what is outside the nebula, they just know that when OVNI come, they are usually screwed by both scanner defection and hyperesapce inhibition.
Then they just rush with swarmer.

[adamstrange]

Well if thats the case then stick to the Taiidani.

I don't like the "Swarm of Fighters,Rush the Enemy" type of concept but if you must use this then its more interesting if Fighters & Corvettes break out of formation and battle single unit to single unit.

Makes it more interesting.

[mololu]

I can assure you, if the kadeshi are made, they will not be a rush and swarm only style gameplay. I can think that could make up one aspect, the other would be setting ambushes, capturing enemy ships (probably even better than the vaygr at this) and other sneaky tactics. They would however not have that many capital ships.

[MatthCoFreak]

Given that the Kadeshi are used to operate only in the Nebula, they will probably not be as efficient in the standard battlefields. I suppose they would intensively develop cloaking and/or radar disruption technology to stay in their element.