I have to say that i like when there is some colors on the textures, so here i'm in love for you DMz !!
I have to say that i like when there is some colors on the textures, so here i'm in love for you DMz !!
yeah I knownormal map ends up inverted
what other choice do I have, lolits a bit back to front making a high poly after a low
I was thinking just simple stuff that breaks up the surface and chamfering the edges, changing some stuff to higher poly for a better AO....stuff like that. Flat surfaces dont work very well, especially not with baking the normals. But your "not-bakes" normal will do fine then I am guessing. It really makes no difference what is built first as the two model will have to overlap anyway. Although I use the normals for the diffuse map by converting it into a grey tone then contrast it to the point where I can add it to a layer group and make worn edges with it. So either way i will probably have to bake the normals...
I do have a problem though.
I have one treference.max with all the variants added together. I have no idea what belongs to what. Could you send me a few screenshots of the meshes separated, like by variants? These are minor details perhaps and I dont know what the dif between these are.
I meant to write you a PM but this is a modding forum after all so i will write this here for the benefit of others.remember to flip all the uv maps
The export process flips the maps upside down. It is no good for the normals and for the AO because all the lighting will change. So bake the maps first and save them somewhere. Then flip the uv layout in max and export the model with that. The export process will flip the uv map back to its correct state for which you have all the saved correct maps. It makes no difference that the other maps are messed up for the process because you will use the correct meshes afterwards.
For the baking process you have to pull the various mesh parts apart and keyframe them in the animator slide, so later you only have to click on the slide to pull them back together. It is improtant because in the projection cage every mesh part should be separated. The cage has to be enlarged to cover all 3D surfaces but should not be blown out of proportion or the normals and the AO maps will be of very poor quality. That is why all the mesh parts should be separate so the cage can be enlarged with minimal data loss on each of those separately.
If you dont know what I am talking about, then it doesnt matter. I wrote this for those who are after professional texture maps and know how to bake those "to texture" in max. Those of you will understand what i am talking about. If you want I can make a video tut of this process -just a crash course-and load it in Tutorials. But there are many good tuts out there so you can learn from those as well. The basics anyway. Then you can experiment and perfect your skills.
The flipping of the uv layout is a handy trick or else the nrm and occl maps will get flipped during the export which means the information will be wrong when all maps are added together fot the exported model. It is not only the alpha channel of the normals that is important. The Red and Green channels will be seriously effected as well and will "flip" the info to an inverted one. There is no way to correct these in Photoshop. Again, only those will understand what I mean who knows the bascis about 3DS Max and Photoshop connected for the texture work. In otherwords, how to build a model, uv map it, bake its maps and make the textures in Photoshop.
Another handy trick is to add all texture maps in max in real-time. Only so you can check if they are working well together. For this you will have to add a DirectX Shader to the model instead of using the Standard shader. This is not good for the export you need the Standard shader for that, but during the texturing process you can check everything much faster when you add everything to the model in real-time.
Am I making sense here? lol
Last edited by inukshuk; 29th May 12 at 1:30 AM.
You are testing that the nrm spc gls and ocl work. as you go along, like this one.
You cans see the bumpmap even though its only a normal bump set at 80%, it just confirms that you havent messed up and gives you a rough idea of the end result. Of course it only shows the bump and light at one angle but its better then nothing, also to test like this the nrm still has to be a blue tone where as final will be changed to green. Ill seperate the stug into individual models with cloned hull for each, that way you wont have to mess around. Also we have NEW treads and wheels from the final fixed Stug G, so at least those dont need to be done again. I believe there are also some parts off the G on the cd a f f8 that can also be used so again less uv mapping.
Eli, there are two bugs in the skin file paths of the Sdkfz 231's .rgm file.
The first is in the Extra_bits_wreck section, the path for the diffusetex points to a file that doesn't exist. This results with certain parts on the wreck texture such as the early type antenna to be pink.
The second is in the Extra_bits_Healthy section. There is a small typo in the speculartex path, it points to a file called sdkfz_232_spc, while the file is actually called sdkfz_232_spec. This causes those extra bits ingame to appear with a semi-transparent pink layer over the skin. In my game, it appears almost solid pink (as if it were a missing dif file), and thus took a while for me to track down.
These are easily fixed on the user's end, however if they could be fixed in any updated version in the future, it would help avoid some confusion and wasted time trying to trouble-shoot.
@inuk, yes it makes sense.
You are saying skin the model and make it look the way you want it too the correct way up, then flip the UVW vertically after all of the work has been done and you are happy with the final result, just before export, so the lighting of the Space Normal Map (what CoH uses, much simpler than Tangent Normal Maps) and the Ambient Occlusion is correct
A useful tut I found as requested Inuk
I havent got time to check the link, but cg-tuts are a good source for learning, yes!
There is a lot of knowledge on that site.
Tangent normals are hard to edit when set up right. Normal maps are extremely touchy and sensitive. Even when you combine two together, sometimes the blue hue gets a little screwed and you have to actually manually set it back to 128-128-255 or it wont carry the right info.
I cant believe we are using generated normal maps that are just a 3d effect-copy of the diffuse. I know I used them for the weapons because there is no point baking maps for a weapon and they dont use AO so what the hell. Also the spec and Gloss maps are just usually desaturated. exposure darkened versions, whereas the spec and gloss maps should be done properly in Photoshop using all the layers you built your diffuse or top hue map.
Yet, i must say these seem to work in a way. Not perfect but decent enough for the purpose they are used for.
One thing is impossible to do is making a diffuse map (hand painted) without the normals and the AO maps baked. So I will do them from now on and push some really decent work out, rather than the half-decent-but-works-good-enough ones. I am glad at least some of you dig what i am saying here. Its simple stuff really, not that difficult what it needs is more like some hand on experience with the basics and things start happening. I wish we had some help for this but if not - hell, we can do it then alone too. lol
The only reason we get reasonable results on the non bakes nrms, is because we manuually edit the alpha layers and set the lighting on them, plus we manually add the higher detail parts as you will have noticed on my nrms. Were we just to make them green and leave them it would be a different story not to mention extreamly dark and ugly.
I wouldent say making a hand painted diffuse is impossible without a baked nrm. but it does take an aweful lot longer and requires much much more editing after its ingame to make it look right, as i found out with the su76.
Oh as for planes, im going to make the followong.
Addons Guns for the JU87 to bring it up to a G.
That will give any mod an option for a Axis - Allied medium bombing run and an extra couple of aircraft for strafing.
It should also remove the last MoW aircraft in CoH plus give aidas2 a british tank buster for ground attack.
I dont think we really need any more planes then the above unless theres a need for a soviet fighter and Medium bomber aswell.
Im not really a fan of carpet bombing as it takes the fun out of competative play, its ok in comp stomps but not 2v2 or 3v3 human tbh. So plz dont ask for heavy bombers.
Oh the the Bf109 after VanAdrian took it for a test flight :/
Total model with wreck is now 2041 tri, relics default p47 is 2737 tri
Last edited by DMz; 29th May 12 at 1:35 PM.
That's awesome, cheers DM. Also, damn you Adrian for crashing my bird. I thought it was clear that that plane was all I had.. :/
Didn't know that i was flying... DMz may gave me some psychedelic substance
Good job on this wreck mate
This is missing its cannons and front plus underside air intakes at the moment, but i thought id show it before i put those on.
This is not a recoloring. I used the uv layout, the occlusion map (thanks DMz!) and the normals to build this map from scratch and I made a quick base map for the panzergrau version of the SdKfz 231. It has the base colors, dirt, rust and stuff. Didnt make it very fancy but changed the tire coloring as well. I can add chipped paint, primer showing here and there, riveting with chipped paint, lot of little stuff can be shown, depends how far we wanna take this. Its just a matter masking and painting.
The SdKfz 232 with plow and cage dressed in panzergrau
Very Good M8. I Will Upload gurdys new texture later. But unfotunatly he has again been a naughty boy and left the lot at 2048 with no final dds\rgt with the alpha work done on the 232 texture, plus left the naughty black background on that texture too, but i daresay i can fix that.
Might aswell edit to add this.
Last edited by DMz; 30th May 12 at 1:55 PM.
Yeah, I didn't send the final texture because Corsix has really been disliking my DDSes as of late (it's been taking issue with the mipmapping even though nothing has changed). Black background can easily be solved with occs w/ transparency, should have done that myself.
inuk, love the grey 231 & 232! In particular i love the lighter colour of the 2cm cannon's barrel, and the wear (and rust?) around the forward edges of the body and turret. However, on the "plow", aren't those rings on the main brace supposed to be holes? How would it look with those cut out?
I haven't been following the development of the SdKfz 232 but it looks amazing right now.
The one question I have is, is that plow a role variation/state? I would like to use this vehicle in my mod and have the plow fill the same role as the bulldozer for the american crocodile does in vCOH.
I am not requesting you do this, just curious if that is how it is currently setup (as a role variation/state sorta thing)
Guys, it's not a plow... it's an early war bullet deflector / extra armor.
Yes, it is already a state: upgrade_armor
Those "rings" on the supports of the Pakschutz (armour shield) actually should be holes. They were incorporated to help keep the vehicle's weight down while giving the support plates for the armour shield structural rigidity. On a side note, field depots in North Africa often welded a piece of sheet metal underneath that open area so that the shield assembly could also be used as an open storage bin for water cans, tarps, and other gear.
I have one i did with alpha cutouts ill sort it some time today for upload, along with Gurdys new skin. Just ive loathed to ask Eli to update the download.
No worries! Its a 5-minute jobThose "rings" on the supports of the Pakschutz (armour shield) actually should be holes
lol, either its the shorter version what the Germans called Pakschutz (AT-defense) or the longer "added frontal armour" or whatever. "PLOW" is easy and simple. lol you are cute as a bug I must sayGuys, it's not a plow
Sweet hurri, also great job on the panzer grey 231! Looks so much better now.
@Inuk looks fabulous!
one question, how does NM work in COH? can't tell when testing in max
Nice to have the 231 and 232 now also in panzergrey, because it was also a vehicle from the early stage of war. Thank's inukshuk.
@DMZ: great collection of fighters. This should prevent the usage of any MoW fighters. No further need.
Nice planes! Why do i think you will really build an entire air armada here, lol?
Thank you guys. This panzergrau version is not finished yet, what you see 3 layer groups and about twenty layers but it is still just the base paint. Another ten-fifteen layers are still painted on as we speak. I am also working a gelb version used by the AK.
Maybe you can give the same treatment to the 233? It is unreleased, but I could get it working soon.
altough I didn`t manage to make my own skin for the Sd.Kfz. 231 I made some color adjustments on Gurdy`s skin to make it look less shiny/flashy ingame. If you are allready using skins from f.e. GnigruH it now fits better the color line. I have to make some final brush marks and then I will upload the skin here... Main credits belong to Gurdy of course.
Edit: Eli I have problems to get the commander visible. The hatch opens but no commander... is there anything different compared to the usual way to show the commander for other models?
Last edited by Xalibur; 31st May 12 at 3:19 PM.
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FOUNDER & PROJECT LEADER
Gurdys new skin with my alpha cutouts on the front armour, having problems uploading atm should be up tommorrow.
Nice work there Xalibur
Can the early Tiger fire with the smoke launcher? Don`t get it work jet and have made it for many other tiger.
@Xalibur have you a look to the abp and the ebps (crew)? I think you must change in the abp this lines
...yes the abp link to Eli's commander model is ok, otherwise I would have a blue box
Xalibur i cant get him to work eigther tried for an hour
Not sure what to tell you guys, it works on my end. There is nothing different or special about it. Just use any regular entity for the animator_bp, like Voss or Tank Crew.
Mhmm, I also have no problems to get a commander working. Did you guys add the commander to the crew (role_name=commander)? I'm using the state commander_upgrade=on.
@DMz, Xali (Nice skin Xalibur!)
This is how I got it working after some fruitless attempts.
1, Provided you didnt edit the tank_commander release of Eli's, just add the default line to the .ABP
2, In the .RGD in EBPS give it a critical action
3, copy/paste into the crew_ext of any vehicles that has a commander (I used the GameData of the sdkfz234 which doesnt by default has a crew_ext!)
4, add an upgrade_action
The commander upgrade opens the hatch, the crew_ext adds the crew member and the crew_name upgrade action adds the visibility of the crew member - was my way of thinking and it worked for me.
I can certainly do that but since I dont recolor but start from scratch I need three things for a new textureMaybe you can give the same treatment to the 233
1, uv layout (I can take that from the model in max)
2, the normal map in any form (but it has to be a baked normals) or the high-poly model of the 233 so i can bake the normals myself
3, the occlusion map baked in max or the high-poly model of the 233 so i can bake the AO myself
(just on a note: maybe we dont need them, I havent seen the model mesh yet but with the added crew compartment and the gun and everything maybe we do, especially for the specular map of the texture, which I have to make instead of just desaturate the diffuse and play with the exposure and gamma - mainly because on the specular dirt and rust and stuff that are non-reflective has to be just that, whereas if it is only a desaturated copy of the diffuse the shiny surfaces get inverted, meaning the matt surfaces become glossy)
When I made the previous texture maps for vehicles all I used was the uv layout and it gave me only the outlines but what I need for a half-decent texture like I made for the 231/232 is the baked normals and AO. Then I can "build" a multi-layer texture including all the maps (dif-gls-nrm-spec-ocl) in a matter of a day or so. Per color I mean: grey - gelb!
Last edited by inukshuk; 31st May 12 at 11:33 PM.
Thank you was missing the commander upgrade action, forgot as my epbs was based on the 234 it would need it even if i had the crew exstention and the commander upgrade critical action.
The vcoh commander works just fine aswell.
Just add the commander in the abp
Give it crew_ext and add the tank commander ugrade. Ingame when you upgrade with the commander, the hatch opens up and the commander pops out
Don't have any actions apart the armor and variant.
Also sweet plane list there Dmz, will definately make use of most of them. I also think that a horsa glider would be of use for the brits in Normandy.
Last edited by Aidas2; 1st Jun 12 at 3:21 AM.
@Aidas Eli already asked me for a horsa a while back m8, im doing the ji88 and that after the huricanes finished. its in desert tropical colours.
Also default commander gives me a blue box, but then my setup may be different to yours. However with Inuks instructions i get this as intended.
@Inuk i got hg to update gurdys latest textures, plus i converted the 233 nrm to green and made the missing wreck textures. If you want those and the alpha off the armour just ask Eli for them, im sure he will send them. Everyone else will have to wait for the update lol
Also just uploaded gurdys final pak texture to hg, same thing wait for update now.
Last edited by DMz; 1st Jun 12 at 4:32 AM.
If this is the case, you should check the relative path. I also use the default commander and it works. But I use a different location for the 231 model (the old german folder).Also default commander gives me a blue box
I know what a blue box means m8, but it works on Inuk and Elis pathing, so i really needent waste more time on it, especially as its only there for testing purposes to make sure i havent screwed any alpha cutouts up ect, im happy with my filed where they are, the new pathing makes sense, and the commander works with the new pathing, it stops accidents happening. If you have hg JP pull your updates, theres a rediculous amount due to a folder cleanup ive done , and due to adding the newer 232 textures and pak 40 textures.
Update on the hurricane, not done a lot texture wise, been too bogged down messing with 231 alphas and various other things.
Looks good so far, the glass texture could use a bit more work as it looks a bit cartoonish but it's nice overall. Wonder where are you taking the textures though? Blueprints or doing your own? They look good, but could use some dirt and scrapes to look more war condition rather than brand new waxed ready to go to the saloon
Also, do you think it would be possible to squeeze in a Spit mk VB/ trop somewhere :P
I know that some people, like Aidas, have very outspoken misgivings about the new folder structure. Anyone is welcome to change this for their own purposes, of course, but just be aware that it is actually much simpler than the previous structure both for us and for you. As long as the models reside somewhere in Data\Art\Models and are properly referenced in the entity that will use them, they will work. However, it would be easier in the long run to just leave the folder structure the way it is released than to edit every single included file every time a new model is released - which is a ton of work.
The decision to change the folder structure was based on simplicity and to be more in line with the way the releases are organized in our forums.
I only dislike this folder structure because the data folder turns into a complete mess. Theres the vcoh folders, then outside of them your older releases and now another folder structure in a completely different place and then plenty of required other files that are in another location each time... When I wan't to edit something I need to find out where are the files using your structure instead of going into the main folder where all the stuff usualy is. And it's not that much work to move the files. Only have to redo the paths in the rgm, which takes like 5 mins tops. In the end it's worth the few extra mins when you want to edit the files, everything is where it should be.
Redoing the glass later m8.
Importanr bits next CANNONS
Last edited by DMz; 1st Jun 12 at 12:35 PM.
I love it!
it will have different states? would be nice to see some states like: flight, landed and flight with the wheels ready to land.
Very nice Inuk.
Royal Navy Operation Torch North Africa.
NW Europe 1942.
Last edited by DMz; 1st Jun 12 at 11:05 PM.
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