3.5-page preview in the german PC-Games

[Espy]

Woohoo!

Big preview with 6 ingame pics and an interview with Jay Wilson. And no, there's no way I could scan it, sorry.

Pic 1:
Ultramarines versus Orks. Setting is a runied imperial town, as far as i can tell. Quite dusty. There's 4-5 Squads of marines and 3 or 4 SM dreadnoughts fighting a roughly equal number of orks with 3 dreadnoughts. The models are great, just like the real thing, there's even a helmetless marine wielding a huge hammer. Textures are really nice, mostly very crisp and detailed; dreadnoughts have paint chipped off at the edges, the exhausts have gone all sooty... nice. There's quite a lot of blood on the ground, there's one marine in the front who's got a fountain of blood erupting from his chest... not overdone, just nice. There's two dead orks and two dead marines flying through the air, one of the orks is at an altitude of about 30 feet...

Pic 2:
Same battle, view from above, 2 squads of assault marines descending upon a group of orks and a dreadnout. Looking good, swinging chainswords and one is even firing his light bolter in flight.

Pic 3:
Small pic with a marine 'base', 24 marines standing in formation in front of some buildings captioned as "plasma generators" producing energy. There's an armored turret behind some sandbags in one corner.

Pic 4:
Ultramarines in the same setting as before, one marine firing a flame thrower at the camera dominating the scene. Fire FX look fairly good.

Pic 5:
Another overview of the town battle. Big, 40 ft marine hero statue on one side, looks cool. Tracer fire

between the two sides, flamer also, but flamers look very shitty in this pic. Fog in the distance, can't see very far.

Pic 6:
Close combat, squad of heavy marines among some orks. Something that might be lascannon fire is streaking

across the pic.

Text:

- Game will have a pause mode in which you can issue orders.
- Races: Marines, Orks, Chaos + one secret faction
- Single player campaings for all 4 races
- 20 multiplayer maps
- game will have seizable objectives just like the tabletop
- morale factors in battle, units will perform worse if morale is low
- 2 resources: energy and "requisition" (probably like reputation in the Panzer General series) gained by securing objectives
- Buildable immobile turrets
- new units bought with reputation are not built, but flown in
- Unit upgrades can be programmed in advance and are applied automatically as soon as they become availiable

Sounds and looks very nice. Release 4th Q 2004.

[DemonTalons]

Kick ass. Please let the secret faction be eldar. And are you sure the date is right? I thought they were gonna release the game in August. (or is that the german release date?)

[Tribunal]

Sounds good so far! Thanks for the info!

[ÜberJumper]

GJ Espy!

[littlegreencube]

SCAN SCAN SCAN

[Whiteferret]

I believe this is the pic you are looking for....

Please do not post these.

[ÜberJumper]

No, those are from the old article.

Also, don't post those here, as it's a big no no.

[Whiteferret]

ooops...sorry

[ÜberJumper]

hehe No problem.

Have a read of these...

http://forums.relicnews.com/forumdis...?s=&forumid=24

(check the signature one too).

[=dU= GhostCaT]

If there are no eldar, I will not buy this game!
Yeah right..... I WILL be upset that they werent included (very) but I will still have to buy it.
It's about time someone made a game like this!

[Whiteferret]

If there are only four races i am not sure that it will really do the game justice. There is what 9 different main factions, not to mention all the different flavors and sub factions. Space Marines, Tau, Necrons, Chaos, IG, Tyranids, Eldar, Orks, Dark Eldar (yeah they are still around in mail order.)

[ÜberJumper]

Focusing on a smaller amount of races leaves a lot of content for expansion, provides tighter balance focus, and allows for higher quality work on the existing art assets.

There might also be technical limitations on the total size of textures the game is able to display.

Besides, with the modibility of the IC engine (which is what I assume that the game is based on) it should be relatively easy for people to create their own races.

[Shim]

Why does everyone seem to think it'd be so easy for Relic to just chuck in all the races? It would take a looong time to create all the artwork and other stuff for every race...

[Whiteferret]

Relying on an older engine design for a different theme is not neccissarily a good thing. There are way too many games that have utilized an older engine to provide a theme for their game and the gameplay is still the same old just different pictures. It's also a fault that GW has fallen down before. Remember "Rites of War", "Chaos Gate", "Final Liberation", or the latest "Fire Warrior" now, all those were based off of other exsisting game engines of the time. The only one that was any decent was final liberation. If they are using the IC game engine and it has a limitiation on the amount of textures, and that limits the amount of armies, then in my opinion it should honestly be looked at if it's something appropriate to use. With the way that the industry's techonology is moving in relationship to graphics, (new versions of direct X, better hardware, etc..) there is no reason why the graphic engine shouldn't be pushed to the max to avoid the whole "Block" look of models, and produce spectacular special effects. Lets face it Relic has the talent, Homeworld 2 was awsome to an extreme, I just hope the game looks much more spectacular to H2 than IC, because IC just didn't impress me at all.

[Whiteferret]

Originally posted by Shim
Why does everyone seem to think it'd be so easy for Relic to just chuck in all the races? It would take a looong time to create all the artwork and other stuff for every race...

It's not a matter of time, it's more a matter of $$ to hire the amount of staff to accomplish the task.

[Shim]

It still wouldn't be easy. And I'm sure Relic knows what can realistically be done and therefore have chosen the races they have.

And Chaos Gate is easily one of the best 40k games

[Maximus Decimus]

omg u ppl are greedy and have NO idea what the development process is and what kind of work goes into it. pls provide an example of a game that has 10 totally unique races? then start ranting. the amount of ai, artwork, scripting in general that would have to be done for 10 unique races would take ages and no they are not gonna hire 20 more people to do this project and then cut them. 4 races is fine and the game is gonna be great all u have to do is stop being so god damn greedy and please try to make urself look less ignorant.

on another note to devs did u design a new engine or take a existing one? hopefully u can answer that since this article is out.

[ÜberJumper]

Whiteferret:

Game development is always usually worried about time and money. Specifically if they have enough time to implement the game design, and the money to pay the people to do the work over that time.

Time is money.

To avoid confusing the issue, I always say "it's a matter of whether or not they have enough resources to do X". Resources being time, money, personnel, experience whatever.

[Whiteferret]

Originally posted by Maximus Decimus
omg u ppl are greedy and have NO idea what the development process is and what kind of work goes into it. pls provide an example of a game that has 10 totally unique races?

Age of Empire
Age of Empire 2
Imperium Galactica I & II
Evequest
Star Wars Galaxies
Final Fantasy XI

Figure out the count, it's not that many models in reality. You average about 25 - 30 models MAX per army.

[Whiteferret]

Uber:

I agree that is the issue, not just with games, but in the developement arena regardless. It does come down to time and money, but you would guess that GW would be footing the bill on this one.

[ÜberJumper]

AFAIK, THQ is footing the bill for it, and GW is collecting royalties.

GW has had a LOT of input into the game's development from what I've heard though.

[Espy]

I can live with 4 races. Think 3D RTS. 4 factions is good enough
One thing that does bother me are the shadows in the IC engine. Ugly. Dark spots on the ground. That *could* be made more attractive. But I'm not bickering. I'm happy they're making a Warhammer 40K game of this quality at all. I mean, look at Fire Warrior... its terrible. And it looks awful. This is miles ahead of any other 40K game, 4 races or 9.

[Maximus Decimus]

Age of Empire, Age of Empire 2,Imperium Galactica I & II,Evequest,Star Wars Galaxies,Final Fantasy XI

LOL!!! u just named 1..2..3 MMORPGs HAHA dude those are MMORPGs not RTSs. now i played all age of empires and where the hell do u find 10 races in there, oh did u happen to notice that ALL the armies yes ALL of them played the exact same except this amry has 2 diff units and that army has 2 diff units replacing each other. those were very very poor examples. now 40k includes 10 unique races(read my post stop skimming throught) yes 10 unique races that all have diff units and to make them like age of empires is to have orks play like nids eg slugga boy fights the same as nid etc. very very poor examples and whats up with the MMORPGs in there??

[Whiteferret]

Originally posted by Maximus Decimus



LOL!!! u just named 1..2..3 MMORPGs HAHA dude those are MMORPGs not RTSs. now i played all age of empires and where the hell do u find 10 races in there, oh did u happen to notice that ALL the armies yes ALL of them played the exact same except this amry has 2 diff units and that army has 2 diff units replacing each other. those were very very poor examples. now 40k includes 10 unique races(read my post stop skimming throught) yes 10 unique races that all have diff units and to make them like age of empires is to have orks play like nids eg slugga boy fights the same as nid etc. very very poor examples and whats up with the MMORPGs in there??

The key here is what are you talking about. Are you talking about how many different models can show up on the screen? Or are you talking about gameplay aspects for each army. Or possibly both. If both, all of those are a valid example, the Models in any MMORPG are examples of a way different models can fight and the differences in both movement fight animation and special effects, along with variety that can be loaded in a game. If you want to talk gameplay Go play Imperium Galactica. Each race in that game is unique in the way combat is handeled and the tactics neccissary to do combat with them, not to mention both games have over 10 races that are unique. So open your mind a bit and get a clue.

[ÜberJumper]

Whiteferret:

It's not realistically possible to get 10 armies with multiple units into the game on a realistic timeframe.

What's likely happened is that Relic's been provided with a budget, a min spec for the hardware that the game will run on, and a timeframe. To meet those requirements, they've decided that it'll be 4 races, in some 2 or so years of development time.

Look at Warcraft III, 3 races.

Having hundreds (100+) of animated units on the screen, each with their own art assets, and CPU requirements, is a severe drain on the average pc gamer's system.

If they've got the ability to have 4 unique races in game at the same time, that's quite a feat. As it is, it may end up only being 3 out of 4 races (I'm guessing here) on the screen at any one time.

[Stripe7]

We will all have systems capable of displaying 10 races in great detail in 2-3 years time. Given 64 bit games and video cards with 1GB video memory etc..

[DemonTalons]

I'm interested about the secret faction. What race do you think it will be? My guess is Eldar.

[Maximus Decimus]

just a couple comments,

yes in 2 to 3 yrs that may be possible but if u havnt been informed the game is schedules for a fall release.

im open minded and out of all the pc rts games i have played there are none that have accomplished even 6+ races correctly. what i meant was that it would be very difficult to create a game with that many races(10) who each have their own set of animations etc for weapons fire, models, etc and who behave entirely different from each other like they are supposed to. when i mention this is am PURELY talking about RTS games and not MMORPGs because the state of the matter is concerning DoW which is a RTS not a MMORPG.

i have never played imperium galactica because what i usually do before i purchase a game is look at reviews and what friends think of the game, if imperium galactica is the game im thinking of the game was said to be poor by alot of ppl i have come across, while imperium galactica II was said to be good although i never found a copy of it at my local EB. the pt of the matter is that most RTS games that i have seen who have attempted something like this have done a very poor job and most recently age of mythology if u can even call that having alot of races included. sure now 1 game that iv heard of has done a good job at this but if it was such a easy task wouldnt u think that the 3 race games would sink and 6+ games would be just about everygame out there. like if 6+ race games have done a good job in the majority then the market expectations would rise to every RTS needed that variety and then wouldnt u see 6+ games that do come out dominate market? if not this probebly means they spent too much time/resources on the races and budget of the game therefore lacking in other areas and if u claim they just didnt get popular mybe marketing should of recieved a bigger budget.

conclusion is i dont trust 6+ race RTS games as they usually have lead me to disappointment and sure it would be great to see every army in DoW but i just dont think its reasonable for the time frame given which is 2 or so yrs.

good day

EDIT: oh i read a review of imperium galactica II and i states that it had 3 PLAYABLE RACES not what u claim and the combat was poor compaired to red alert and homeworld. now its one thing to make a NPC race since u can leave alot of things out and another to creat a player controled race.

but I should at least mention the three races you can play. There's the militaristic Kra'hen, the devious and subversive Shinari, and the Solarians, which carry a nice balance between a heavy hand and a crafty mind.

- IGN review

[hybris]

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE Relic!

Let the "secret" race be Eldar.
I NEED ELDAR *sigh*
The vast majority of all previous computer games has lacked the appearance of Eldars. I desperately need to crush Chaos and Orks with my Eldars in the upcoming Relic RTS!

[Pike]

Originally posted by Espy
I can live with 4 races. Think 3D RTS. 4 factions is good enough
One thing that does bother me are the shadows in the IC engine. Ugly. Dark spots on the ground. That *could* be made more attractive. But I'm not bickering. I'm happy they're making a Warhammer 40K game of this quality at all. I mean, look at Fire Warrior... its terrible. And it looks awful. This is miles ahead of any other 40K game, 4 races or 9.

There were various levels of detail for the shadows in IC. What exactly is wrong with the stuff here http://www.relic.com/images/screensh...reens_s_30.jpg?

[evil_turtle]

Did it say anything about customizeable color?

[Rabiddog]

Well evil if they are going for Ultramarines then we already know the only colors they use that I'm aware of are blue and yellow.

I personally hope the last race is IG because I just love the down to earth gritty fealing of watching a platoon of Guardsmen storm an enemy position lasguns blazing as their Leman Russ tanks shell the enemy

Anyway I hope it's IG.


Thanks for the great info and we all seriously hope that they will make POSTABLE pics for those of us who are to cheap to get the magazines

[Tribunal]

I don't think I've ever played a good RTS that had 10 FULL, unique races. IG2 doesn't count as an RTS, imho, since it was more about planning out your empire etc, and not about the combat. There were six or sets of vehicles, but it was (for the most part) turn based. Look at Starcraft, Warcraft, CnC, Homeworld, Metal Fatigue, Ground Control and more -- more races does NOT equal better game. It usually means that the races are not that unique, they share models, or the rest of the game is rushed due to trying to pump out the races.

Four confirmed races is GREAT in my book, and I can't wait for some pics to whet the old appetite.

[Rabiddog]

Well if your aiming for a buttload of races go play Space Empires 4 Gold, it's not an RTS but it's a 4x game and it is great with loads upon loads of races and lots of new ways to modify your race and the like and you even get to design your own ships (within a weight limit per size deal) so that's the only real way to get hundreds or thousands of ships and troops out.

4 Races for DoW is great I am glad we'll see the Chaos and Space Marine dudes involved but as I said earlier (eldar lovers don't kill me) I'd rather see IG then Eldar because the IG is just the real hero kind of soldiers facing death with a lasgun and a flak jacket instead of the marines in their adamantium armor with their uber healing abilities and......goes on for two hours then falls on floor because he forgot to breath.

[No Surrender]

Since the 4th race is a secret faction chances are it won't be Imperial. Probably the Necrons.

[Espy]

Originally posted by Pike


There were various levels of detail for the shadows in IC. What exactly is wrong with the stuff here http://www.relic.com/images/screensh...reens_s_30.jpg?

Oooh, sweet!
Thanks! I wasn't fully aware of the engines capabilities.
The pics I described have low detail shadows though. But there seems to be hope.

[Viscount Vito]

Well either way they are limiting the scope of the universe in the game. I'm not the longest standing GW, but I am sick and tired of the SM. It's just a fact that this is an idea that has been beaten to death, super human warriors run the future, they are profitient, power, unbeatable. They are unstoppable killing machines, ofcourse there are good ones and bad ones.

Why not just make a story about 50% of all war sci-fi ever written. About the other half of it has to do with either cyborgs or genetically enhanced super human warriors which is still not suprising.

That being said, GW makes the best of it IMO. With the variations on the legions it's still fun, maybe not fresh but fun.

In the end though, I'm sorry. I'm not impressed enough with just 2 races. CSM and SM are all same, ones just evil. Hell they're brothers according to fluff! Don't get me started about orcs and gobos though, they've been here since the advent of fantasy as we know it (JRR Tolkien). Lets try something new. Finally the last 'race' is probably not a new race at all it's a faction to quote the original post.

I don't mean to bag but this has been done to death. Unless I can be impressed in person I'll just chalk this one up as another game I bought, played and put away for the sake of GW, and my undying sci-fi dreams.

[Viscount Vito]

Leme also add that WC III suxors big time. Get down to gameplay and the game is ruinous. To me it's a conglomerated piece of junk with no unique factors to make it fun.

While Impossible creatures has many, many unique facets that are cool about it. Just to create a new kind of animal better at fighting is fun for moi.

Again WC III just isn't fun.

Decimus you have no first hand concept of game development. You never limited yourself, you start with a concept and expand, game development is about creation. Creativity is key, hedging your bets makes for crummy games, and a horrible time in development. No one starts making a game for cloning purposes, CREATING a game is what development is all about. Don't even think about challenging this statement. I will dust you, if you even write a contrary word to it. There are quotes in German, English, French, Japanese, and I could probably find one in Korean to support me.

[dArKB*****d]

I've got to add a few comments to this thread, as I've been a rts/strategy junkie since perfect general.

Played many titles many variants of the rts genre, space combat, god games, unit based, squad based, epic based... etc.

I personally am pleased with 4 races; I wasn't expecting more and wouldn't have liked any less. More would have been a bonus but I can live with what we've got.

From what I've read at the top of this thread, there will be SM, Chaos, and Orcs + one other.

I'm almost certain in my mind that there will be these varieties, and the extra race playable will be Elder, npc races I’m sure will be included such as IG, Tyrnaids, Necron, Tau (not sure I’d like to see Necron or Tau)


Space Marines

Ultra Marines
Blood Angels
Space Wolves
Dark Angles


Chaos

Khorne
Nurgle
Tzeench
Slannesh


Orks

Goffs
Bad Moons
Death Skulls
Evil Sunz
Snake-Bites
Blood-Axes

Sub Groups (I think it could be possible that they could include scenarios whereby space marines could be called upon to support the defense, or help attack an outpost where there would be a need for IG :hwpilot: ) <--- These would most likely be additions to the space marines selection screen, or single player campaigns as support units.

Now I can't see there being much of a problem with this, as in my mind, all that would be required for them to achieve this is some minor variants on the main theme of each army.

Example

Lets say 40 Units for the Space Marines (remember this is an example)

Lets select Ultra Marines army this immediately reduces units available to lets say 28.

These would come from the 40 which would have a generic colour look with the ability to have slight modifications to colour and appearance, on their armour.

Ultramarine (Terminator)

Body Variant1U.???
head Variant1U.???
Legs Variant1U.???
Logo Variant1U.???

or if it were a space wolf terminator

Body Variant1 SW .???
head Variant1 SW .???
Legs Variant1 SW .???
Logo1 Variant SW .???

for a different type of appearance

Body Variant 2 SW.???
head Variant 1SW.???
Legs Variant 3 SW.???
Logo Variant 1SW.???

you get the idea by now :nod:

So no need to worry about making hundreds of individual units, and destroying the game play. hopefully highly customizable viriates of units.. I'm sure relic would be doing something like this, body parts need to be blown away dismemberment is important you know :evil:

[Rabiddog]

Listen I aggree with the space marines are getting old bit I mean I'm sorry they don't even make up the bulk of the Imperial Fighting force the IG does most of the fighting and most of the dying while the space marines get all the glory.....I wanna see Guardsmen as a playable race damnit they are the true heroes!!!

Anyway rant over, I think it would be cool if what they did was make a general "imperial" army wherein you can get guardsmen and space marines kind of like how you would build say fighters and capital ships in HW. Make the SM really expensive and take a longer time to arrive and make IG troopers cheap fast to arrive and yet weaker as it should be.

I don't want to see the Tau as they would just be too much like Dark Reign 2 to me, and the Necrons would be bad as that would make 3 bad races and 1 good one.

They might be dividing it up evenly between 2 evil races (I,E Orc and CSM) and 2 good races (I.E SM hopefully IG) because the Eldar aren't good guys as they constantly attack the Imperium, the Tau attack everyone for "the greater good" so they aren't good guys....you know what I mean?

[Abaddon]

They might be dividing it up evenly between 2 evil races (I,E Orc and CSM) and 2 good races (I.E SM hopefully IG) because the Eldar aren't good guys as they constantly attack the Imperium, the Tau attack everyone for "the greater good" so they aren't good guys....you know what I mean?

technical humanity in the 40k universe isn't really that good, i mean inquisitons, genocide of whole worlds just cos of a few heretcs, if you read the books troops can be exeacuted(sp) for retreating! looking at the art of humatiy in the codex's and books humanity is quiet "dark" while its not evil it aint good,

i say bring in the elder, i think they one of the best races, i would say the elder are good, there just fighting for survival, and they doe allie with the space marines from time to time,

[Maximus Decimus]

lol vito there is something called budget in the real world, dont know what world ur f*ckin living in bud but they are confined to budget and the guidelines set by the publisher. tsk tsk tsk u clearly are very ignorant, if the world operated like that then h*ll we wouldnt see release dates or anything because hey theyd start off with a idea how u said and work from there until they run out/are pleased because of course in this world u believe in things like budget and timeline are out the window. every game and product on this earth has stages if developement and they plan everything out before they jump into actually making the game. it simply is not a "develop on the fly routine" in the real world.

on another note i think warcraft was good and how can WIII sell over a million copies that fast and suck plus how come starcraft and warcraft are the RTS games with a bigger multiplayer community then most RTS games of its class. while i do find the single player stuff lacking i do find the custom maps that ppl and i make very interesting and fun, u can literally make warcraft into any type of game almost...u want a game where u develop a city, run ur government, population, like caesar III u got it.

i also agree that necros and tau should be left out cause theyr not core races.

one final thing why does everyone say that marines are a stereotypical idea thats just getting old. hmm u can say JUST about that about nids ever since the starship troopers book, necros ever since the old 50s movies with robots, orks and everything else. the cliche of marines is just about as old as "robots"(necros) "killer bugs"(nids) "super advanced aliens"(tau) and everything else. i have to say that the oldest one is super advanced aliens such as tau cause thats been around ever since man wondered and made books/movies of aliens from out space. my theory why so many ppl nark on marines so much is because marines have the biggest fanbase and u may see jealousy from that cause ppl may think "why is this happening, clearly my race is way better errr".

[SoheilsX]

Originally posted by Viscount Vito
Well either way they are limiting the scope of the universe in the game. I'm not the longest standing GW, but I am sick and tired of the SM. It's just a fact that this is an idea that has been beaten to death, super human warriors run the future, they are profitient, power, unbeatable. They are unstoppable killing machines, ofcourse there are good ones and bad ones.

Why not just make a story about 50% of all war sci-fi ever written. About the other half of it has to do with either cyborgs or genetically enhanced super human warriors which is still not suprising.

That being said, GW makes the best of it IMO. With the variations on the legions it's still fun, maybe not fresh but fun.

In the end though, I'm sorry. I'm not impressed enough with just 2 races. CSM and SM are all same, ones just evil. Hell they're brothers according to fluff! Don't get me started about orcs and gobos though, they've been here since the advent of fantasy as we know it (JRR Tolkien). Lets try something new. Finally the last 'race' is probably not a new race at all it's a faction to quote the original post.

I don't mean to bag but this has been done to death. Unless I can be impressed in person I'll just chalk this one up as another game I bought, played and put away for the sake of GW, and my undying sci-fi dreams.

Lemme add that you are a moron.
Have you ever even tried reading the fluff? Do you have any idea how deep they go to explain the space marines and the forces of chaos? Its not just "ones good ones bad" you idiot.

If people like you would read before saying anything we would have saved a lot of thread space on all the forums here at relicnews.

Its not just right and wrong, its all about conflicting views. Some see the chaos gods as evil, others see them as the reality of the universe.
Please, before spewing nonsense at least try and know what you are talking about.

[Maximus Decimus]

well said well said, are eldar and dark eldar the same crap?no. do they play differently? yes. hes just narking marine cause he knows that they r the best damn thing out there and is jealous about it haha

[Soulblighter]

keep the thread on topic without the grade school behavior guys.

thanks.

[Richtofen]

Apparently marines are in the next box game of 40k (obtober apparently). Its kinda themed around the battle of Macragge so it will have the mighty done to death Ultra-Morons up against the Tyranids. But, all the models will be able to be assembled without glue so does that mean new gaunts?

[dewolfe]

... so does that mean new gaunts?

No, it means new Stealers. :flamer:

[JayR]

I´d really like to see scans of those six pics in the german magazine. I know they can´t be posted on this forum, but if anyone knows another site where they can be found please inform the rest of us so we can drool a bit on our keyboards. :3d:

[dewolfe]

They'll find their way on to Portent eventually. Everthing GW does.

[The Collector]

So no Imperial Guard? SM/Orks/Chaos/[x].

SM and Chaos are the good vs. evil,
then Orks vs. another race that doesn't fit into the black/white category...could be practically any of the races. Could be Tyranids?