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Blood Angel & Necron alliance!

  1. #1

    Blood Angel & Necron alliance!

    I was flipping through the various pages of Codex: Blood Angels fluff today and came accross a Necron encounter, being a Necron player I read the short entry and it went something like this:

    Blood Angels (inc Dante) meet a force of Necrons (led by a named Necron Lord that I can't seem to remember) on a planet and start fighting, 3 weeks later neither side is winning and Dante is giving it everything he's got. Suddenly a Tyranid fleet arrives in orbit and lands planetside where the Necrons and Blood Angels quickly team up to combat the new foe. The alliance of Blood Angels and the Necrons s enough to annihilate the Tyranids and afterwards the commanders go their seperate ways, the blood angels believe it to be dishonourable to turn on the force they just fought alongside with to halt the Tyranids and both sides had sustained casualties. wtf?

    So for some reason the Necron Lord worked with the BA's, Dante willingly accepted their aid, and afterwards they thought it was more important to be honorable and leave the Necrons alone because they fought alongside them in battle, and it never mentions them even returning to combat the Necrons again.

    It also struck me as rather odd that the Lord would go along with this, he worked alongside he BA's and even at the end, where he probably should have continued to harvest the BA's, he lets them leave!

    The whole sory seems kind of odd and it is the first Necron alliance i've heard of..... any thoughts?
    Last edited by Kryndo; 8th Jun 10 at 6:06 PM.

  2. #2
    Where did you find this fluff?
    "No. Not now. Not ever. Do you hear me? I will use every cannon, every bomb, every bullet, every weapon I have down to my own teeth to end you! I swear it! I'm coming for all of you!" -Laura Roslin, President of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol.

  3. #3
    Society's Secret Super Soldier SocietySoldier's Avatar
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    It doesn't seem so much as an alliance, more of a "Oh shit, we are both being attacked, so instead of annihilation, lets both kill nids and ignore each other"
    I'm pretty sure Necrons never ever EVER ally with anything...period.
    I'm sure it was more of a survival scenario in which they knew outright destroying the Marines would lead to their forces being weakened andthen destroyed by the nids.

  4. #4
    Member Niftyeye's Avatar
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    I didnt think Necrons would team up with Space Marines, no matter what, they see everything as the enemy, and would probably rather fight to the last and phase out than team up with the Emperor's finest.

    Have you got a link for this?

  5. #5
    Society's Secret Super Soldier SocietySoldier's Avatar
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    K here is the low-down on page 16 of the new BA codex:

    Dante and 3rd Company vs. Silent King Necron Forces
    They are stale mated and Dante's tactical brilliance is stretched to its limits
    Then the Tyranids come and "force the armies to break off hostilities and fight the common foe"
    After the final battle Dante and The Silent King both go their separate ways knowing that both their forces are horribly depleted and fighting would be horrendous for both sides.
    Dante finds killing his impromptu allies distasteful.

    So as it seems the person who wrote this lovely little piece of fluff forgot that Necrons hate everyone and that this probably should not have gone in the codex at all...just my two cents of course.

  6. #6
    Sorry I thought I wrote the BA codex but I just put BA fluff, totally my bad.

    And yeah SocietySoldier my first thought is someone made a mistake and decided it would be fun if the Necrons made friendly for awhile.

    and It doesn't say they are orribly depleted simply both sides had casualties, it doesn't give detail on how low the forces were and Necrons tend to well... come back to "life" anyways.

    The biggest shocker for me was that the Necrons "let" the BA's go and that anyone in the Imperium would consider allying with the Necrons let alone leave them alone to regroup and rebuild!

    Edit: oh yeah one more thing! In the part about Dante thinking is would be distasteful it mentions that it would be distasteful to turn on those they had just fought alongside with... which led me to believe that they were fighting and working together (the degree to which is unclear) as opposed to just fighting them totally independantly whenever they encountered them.... but it appears to be fairly open to interpretation.

  7. #7
    Member Supernaut's Avatar
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    This is interesting, it could be part of the rumoured changes regarding Necrons and giving the Lords a bit more independence...
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  8. #8
    Member Xenith's Avatar
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    Maybe Dante made the necron lord play endless games of tic tac toe until the lord realised that mutually assured destruction would be the result of any further engagements, and would rather pause the harvest than risk the crippling of a tomb world.


    Didnt this happen with Marneus Calgar, the tau and necrons in the SM dex? I reckon Ward just pillaged the fluff...
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  9. #9
    One way of redeeming this piece of fluff would be having the Deceiver actively involved in this, he could authorise such an action between the Silent King to decimate the Blood Angels and to an extent lure the Tyranids somehow for a "just as planned" purpose we wouldn't know about.

    Calgar also had this unholy alliance with the Tau, and as the Tau are sentient enough to consider losses to know when they're spent this is understandable. Calgar did the "honourable" thing and let them leave and they obliged, the Necrons just hate life to the core and fight on despite grievous losses, even if they do lose they'll still have some forces recovered from phase out.
    Perhaps what they were fighting on was a dormant Tomb World (in which case their existence phases back to the world which they're standing) so if that goes, destruction is permanent. Perhaps the Silent King didn't want to cause a threat to his planet and let them depart after realising both would only win through a pyrrhic victory?
    Still for Space Marines, this seems really out of character.

  10. #10
    Party like it's M40.999 Aquila's Avatar
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    Its a common misconception that the Necrons are basically just robots that run around killing everything. In fact, the Lords, Pariahs, and Immortals to a lesser extent retain their sentience and consciousness and are fully capable of acting independently and interacting with intelligent species.

    Another conveniently ignored fact is the plethora of evidence and examples of Necrons communicating with and even conducting safe passage for humans as guests or envoys. The C'Tan believe that humans represent their future in this galaxy and see us simultaneously as their new favoured servants, worshippers, and livestock. In their view their domination and our subsurvience is inevitable and they in no hurry to enslave, harvest, or exterminate humanity. They have all the time in the universe.

    The Tyranids, on the other hand, represent an enormous threat the Necrons, even greater than Chaos. If Chaos emerges triumphant and the galaxy again unravels in warp catastrophe, the C'Tan can simply return to their tombs and wait another 500 million years and start over. If the Tyranids succeed in overrunning the galaxy, however, they won't leave behind a single biological cell. There would be nothing left and the C'Tan would rot, wither and presumably they would eventually die out.

    The Necrons have aided the Imperium before, in the fight against Chaos during the 13th Black Crusade, and it makes sense that against a foe like the Tyranids, they would do so again. They don't care one way or the other about a single Blood Angels strike force. Humanity will serve or die in their own time, but a threat like the Tyranids cannot be ignored.

    As for the Blood Angels... well, for all the anti xenos rhetoric in the Imperium, humanity has allied with virtually every major alien race at one point or another. And for all the talk of not wanting to battle the Necrons that he had just fought alongside, its probably important to remember that Dante was fully aware that he couldn't actually beat them. Dante is not a stubborn fool and I'm sure he was more than ready to take the opportunity to save his brothers rather than drive them into a futile meatgrinder in the name of hate.

  11. #11
    It could also be the Silent King would know of the retribution that would follow if they did murder Dante- we just don't know that much or an explanation to the Necron's motives.

  12. #12
    I'm appalled at Dante's indiscretion of not offering the Silent King a round of beer after the battle.
    The best means of defense is attack, an' the best means of attack is a really really big one, right, with lots of boys an' dead big shooty things and what have ya.

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  13. #13
    that's an interesting take on the necrons aquila. do you have any sources on it? because if so i'd like to dig into it a little deeper

  14. #14
    Party like it's M40.999 Aquila's Avatar
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    Xenology is the most significant source I can think of.

    Don't click if you plan on reading it



    Codex Necrons describes that the most strong willed of the Necrontyr retained their self-awareness after 'conversion,' becoming the Immortals and Lords. It also details the voyages of a renegade tech priest who was captured and released as a messenger.

    Dawn of War: Dark Crusade portrays a Necron Pariah as fully sentient following conversion, and is used frequently as an envoy or herald for the awakening Necrons.

    The views on humanity that I mentioned are pulled primarily from Deux Ex Mechanicus, a short story that is probably the first narrative depiction of a C'Tan, although he is not named specifically as such.

  15. #15
    Member Ewokz's Avatar
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  16. #16
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    You have to remember that Dante is a master of tactics. He would have known that continued fighting with the Necrons would result in more losses and little gain. If the Necrons pulled out (Since they are the masters of retreat) he would be foolish to force an engagement.

    From the Necron point of view pulling out means nothing. They have all the time in the universe to come back.

  17. #17
    THE INFANT Shuma's Avatar
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    Many of you didn't read the Necron entry in the 5th ed Rulebook did you? Not all Necron Lords follow or obey the C'tan, and not all of the Necron lords are "sane" some of them go insane and go on bloody crusades through the galaxy for no real reason, other believe themselves to be the gods they once served, etc, etc.

    In other words, it's more impressive(imo) that the Blood Angels did not keep fighting the Necrons than that the Necrons left the BA leave. And Aquila has it right.
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  18. #18
    I think the problem is just the way Dante was described as leaving due to "honour", Necrons I'm sure don't have a concept of honour due to their hate of life. Also the fact the Silent King took out a large chunk of Dante's battle brothers, some of the best the BA has to offer, and just leaves saying "oh, thanks for the help" while the SK's motives aren't mentioned. The impromptu alliance could have been written much better to show why both factions acted the way they did, it's like acknowledging an evil like Chaos is honourable and not doing everything they could do stop it even if a Hive Fleet got in their way.

    Granted the Lords are shown to be self aware of their actions, but I thought Necron doctrine was still just "shoot the enemies until we phase back to our tomb world, we've got nothing to lose". It's because of that I think the planet the BA invaded them on was his tomb world, because then he would have to reason to back off- he could get smashed permanently. That or the King's an insane Lord who had a few rounds and then got bored.

    As the Necrons are also a master of retreat, they could have simply vanished when the Hive Fleet arrived and left the BA to die- but they stuck around with the BA for some reason. Did the Silent King just get that impressed fighting with the BA he decided to go against his Necron instincts and help them out, was he fighting on his tomb world, or maybe the place was of some significance to him?

    I'm appalled at Dante's indiscretion of not offering the Silent King a round of beer after the battle.
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    Last edited by Elerium; 10th Jun 10 at 5:03 PM.

  19. #19
    THE INFANT Shuma's Avatar
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    Again, not all Lords serve the C'tan and not all Lords are your generic "kill everything in sight" Necron. The Lord probably simply decided that the Hive Fleet was a bigger threat and then like the story says he simply decided it wasn't "honorable" to keep on fighting against the Blood Angels after they had been allies.

    And Necrons don't fall back to their tomb world inmediatly, according to the Space Marine codex when the Ultra Marines fight the Void Bringer(or something) lord of Damnos and he's brought down(after he one hit KO's Sicarius hurr) the Necron warriors simply fall back to secondary command centers on the surface.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Supernaut
    This is interesting, it could be part of the rumoured changes regarding Necrons and giving the Lords a bit more independence...
    This sounds like a Batman-Joker situation. Batman (Dante) doesn't want to kill his enemy because of his beliefs in honor etc. and Joker (Necron Lord) doesn't want to kill him because then he wouldn't have any opposition nor fun at all.

  21. #21
    I know it can be reasoned, but that story still smacks of fluff rape to me

  22. #22
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    It's a exception to the norm but is ok. GW has gone further outside of normal fluff to let things happen. This just shows that if you really want you can have Necron allies with SMs if you want.

  23. #23
    @Stonerhino: Interesting that you bring that up lol, we thought the exact same thing (my friend the BA player and me the Necron player)

    I think what threw me off most has to do with the gradual shift towards necrons being more aware/sentient/intelligent etc mainly the Lords.

    I too remember when the necrons were broken so the IG could time their exact invasion and patterns/tactics so they used it as a training program.... and slowly they moved away form that and more towards smarter more capable lords and whatnot.

    This certainly adds to the notion that Lords in particular are very capable of reasoning/having thier own agenda or (lol)morals etc but it seems like they dropped this like a bomb in the fluff....
    Last edited by Kryndo; 12th Jun 10 at 7:03 PM.

  24. #24
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    I think what threw me off most has to do with the gradual shift towards necrons being more aware/sentient/intelligent etc mainly the Lords.
    I actualy think we are seeing Necron evolution the same as we have seen with the Tau. Just that the Tau it's in their tech. The 2nd Codex introduced more technology as their next one will show more.

    With the Necrons it started out as really basic commanders. As Apoc explains, once a threat is determined they create a Lord with an artificial personality built to counter it. As the threat level increases the Necrons counter with more force. In Xenology the Necron lord there speaks of elite "Lords and Ladies" that remember their lives before they were made metal. Meaning the Necrons have been waking more and more powerful Necron Lords to command.

    Think about it this way. The Necron scouts (Tomb Spiders, scarbs and warriors) scout out an IG Army. The Necrons see them as no real threat using lasguns and lumbering inferior tanks. They Awake random lord 3,948 to deal with them. Who just sets up phalanxs of Warriors and walks over them. Skip ahead to 40k present day and you have Necrons with detailed intel on the IoM. Now the scouts see the Blood Angels space marine chapter being lead by Dante. In this case the Necrons know that random Necron lord 3,948 can not handle the situation. So they send a Herald of Awakening to wake the Silent King. A Necron Lord who's expirence dates back to the War in Heaven where he helped to bring the Old Ones to their knees. (Quike note: The is no current fluff on the Silent King, just inferring because he needs to be a tactical genius to take Dante to his limits.) Now armed with a worthy lord the Necrons set out to face the Blood Angels.

    The Necrons are advancing but instead of creating new stuff they just keep waking more lethal equipment and commanders.

  25. #25
    That makes sense, since they are already so advanced that they can not realistically be more advanced.

  26. #26
    Brazen Attention Who-- MooFreaky's Avatar
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    For people that have been around the game for a while we have seen this kind of racial evolution before. When the Eldar were in the early stages of 40k they were Eldar Raiders and nothing more. There were no CraftWorlds, no Aspects, nothing. They were simply Elf Pirates IN SPACE.

    Over time they evolved and became the deep, intriguing and unique race they are today (while not all their concepts are unique, they way they combine provides a finial product that fits together in a unique manner). Other races have done likewise, some have changed to and fro on numerous occasions (Orks and the BrainBoyz, Squigs originally being captured Tyranid lifeforms etc), while others have changed but not as significantly as the Eldar (the Tyranids for example).

    This evolution of the Necrons is to be expected given they have only had one codex and it wasn't nearly as deep as the other races (one Codex of fluff is nothing compared to what others have about the place). This will continue to happen until they truly establish themselves. This evolution was likely slowed significantly, however, by their lack of popularity.

    Personally, I find it extremely interesting and gives a much better feel to the Necrons than simply them being basically machines. I also hope this evolution takes us a step two away (or even a whole frickin marathon away) from the "the c'tan did it" scenario.

  27. #27
    The Imperium changed too.
    The Inquisition got completely re-designed.
    Marines got a power and authority boost.
    Techpriests now actually are good with machines.

    Just as examples

  28. #28
    Veteran Assault Terminator Makenshi's Avatar
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    Damn, if Necron fluff in the Dawn of War games (DC and SS) were this intriguing and deep, things would have been much more interesting @.@

    I hope the DoW 2 Necrons come in such a perspective


  29. #29
    THE INFANT Shuma's Avatar
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    This kind of Necron fluff wasn't out at the time, only little hints there and there, it had not been flat out stated before the 5th edition rulebook.

    Now we know that there are rogue Necron Lords, Fanatic Necron lords, nutcases, etc, we also know now that the Necrons haven't brought out their big guns, etc.

  30. #30
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    For people that have been around the game for a while we have seen this kind of racial evolution before. When the Eldar were in the early stages of 40k they were Eldar Raiders and nothing more. There were no CraftWorlds, no Aspects, nothing. They were simply Elf Pirates IN SPACE.
    While I have seen this, it is not what I'm talking about.

    I mean instead of just fleshing out a race. As your example with the Eldar. I think it's more like the Tau. The Tau's back story has not changed nor has their image. They have remained a minor power/threat in their little corner of the Galaxy. But what they have expanded on is their tech. For example: The Railrifle. It was not in their first codex. But showed up (After being in Fire Warrior) as an expirimental weapon going through field testing+addition to old codex. Then was included in their next codex, with a few upgrades and fixes, like not getting hot. No fluff actualy changed but the Tau weapon evolved before our eyes. There was not "Oh this has been here the whole time". And I think that is what GW has been doing with the Necrons. As more wakes up more becomes available. Thus increasing the Necron's options before our eyes. Even though in the Case of the Necron it has been there the whole time anyways.

  31. #31
    It seems so unlikely though. The Nids having no interest in the necron would simply go after the BA's. The blood angels would be fighting on 2 fronts and since they were not gaining any ground to begin with they should have been crushed. The Cron on the other hand should have theoretically just continued deatomizing everything living. I don't see how this could have gone any way but completely in the favor of the necron. Even if the Nids had killed off the BA's and left The Necron could have pursued the hive fleet for all the fuel it would present to their Star gods.
    "Innocence Proves Nothing"

  32. #32
    Dammit Matt Ward.

    Listen, when up against "fluff" such as this, its simple: Ignore it. Its a bad fanfiction written by an ascended fanboy.

    I refuse to acknowledge such bull as "canon." BA and Necrons would never mix, no matter how convoluted the circumstances. Accepting Tyranids fighting Necrons is hard enough as is, but a free-for-all between Tyranids, Necrons, and BA is just that: A free-for-all.

    I don't care if its in a codex or not. Some cases of poor writing just need to not be discussed. This crap is as "canon" as Biel-Tan's Avatar being dead for the last 3000 years (ignorant C.S. Goto), squats, the sensei, pre-fungi ork reproduction, or the 5th Chaos God Malal or what's his name.

    No one remembers these things. That's the point. Notice how bad ideas just naturally get added to the waste-bin of canon.

    This, (along with GKs murdering Sisters and many other "ideas" by Matt Ward) are just the latest to come along. So just ignore it until the day someone at GW gets a clue and Matt Ward is fired. No fan of the franchise will remember this 10 years from now.

    ~TheHolyDarkness Out~

    Don't think my point is driven home enough? For your reading pleasure, here's an article discussing the "canon" of the very very first edition, Rogue Trader. See if you can't spot the obsolete ideas.
    Last edited by TheHolyDarkness; 24th Jul 11 at 9:22 PM.

  33. #33
    THE INFANT Shuma's Avatar
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    or the 5th Chaos God Malal or what's his name.
    Malal was never part of 40k though, Malice however is(yeah yeah, same shit), but he was "introduced" in 2009(?) in a short story.

    Accepting Tyranids fighting Necrons is hard enough as is
    That makes no sense, Tyranids might "avoid" Necrons(and that's not true) but Necrons would definitively not avoid Tyranids, after all they might as well be mortal enemies considering they're after the same thing.

  34. #34
    Member Niftyeye's Avatar
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    'An enemy of my enemy is my friend'

    In 40K, as soon as they stop fighting the common and much more dangerous threat, they resupply, re-group, and probably start slaughtering eachother again.

  35. #35
    Oh god it's the Mechwarrior Dork Age all over again.

    Quick folks, pick small untalked about factions and sects that are the least likely to get noticed or bad fluff and we'll make it out OK.

  36. #36
    Whoa whoa whao whoawhoa, Ok this is some bad fluff here, some crazy fluff, no way in hell space marien would let necrons stay standing as dangerous as necrons are. It b elike space letting chaos space marine go because the chaos lord gave them a compliment. No way in the deepest warp. who ever wrote that is a necron in disguise and is writing bull shyt propaganda to confuse the public its heresy and that guy needs to be shot now.
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  37. Tabletop Senior Member Company of Heroes Senior Member  #37
    Don't make me angry. Ap0k's Avatar
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    Before anyone goes 'NICE NECRO HOLYDARKNESS hurhur', it should be known that the actual necro posts (and a couple of direct responses to them) have been deleted.

    If people want to post shite chan pics, they can do it on 4chan. There's only enough room on the internet for one cesspit.

  38. #38
    Tbh what do necrons have to fear from nids in the first place, they have guass flayers that evaporate metal objects like water does in extreme heat. What did they run out of Gauss weapons and use sticks? The space marine letting them live because they form an alliance with them? Thats like no that doesn't exist they already know necrons are dangerous and having them live would mean certain death to near by sectors. What space marine in their right mind would be like ok we was friends so now we let you live to flay whole planets to death? I don't get it nope.

  39. #39
    i don't think the text was implying that both sides willingly sided with one another, made nice, got all chummy, had a spot of tea then in their new founded friendship of caring and trust, assaulted the large tyranid invading force working together.

    what i took from the text was that both sides encountered a larger threat then tactically shifted fire against it instead of each other. the combined fire power of the two forces was enough to crush the tyranids, but not at some cost. when the dust was settled, neither side was in any sort of fighting shape so they both withdrew from combat.

  40. #40
    THE INFANT Shuma's Avatar
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    Pretty much. Besides, all the horror theorist about Matt Ward always forget to mention that Dante and the Blood Angels COULD NOT DEFEAT THE NECRONS, it was senseless to keep on fighting them anyway.

  41. #41
    I believe it's the lines "Dante finds attacking Necrons who fought with him distasteful" which had sparked the BFF joke- no SM would find fighting Necrons distasteful because they're an eldritch horror. Necrons warp reality in the terms of an anti-Chaos, manipulating perceptions of time, creating psyker dead zones, etc.

    Also the Necrons would have probably turned on Dante if they had the forces to do so (burning hate of life and all that). What the lines should have said was "both begrudgingly withdraw to their home sectors to lick their wounds". Perhaps it could have been mentioned that the Silent King realised that screwing off the Blood Angels (the chance to kill Dante if successful) would have caused more harm for him in the long run (revenge seekers) after gaining a grudging respect with them to stave off a hive fleet. Not that they needed the Nids to arrive anyway, it seems like a typical plot trick to get both fighting with each other.

    Alliances possible, execution of, bad.

  42. #42
    THE INFANT Shuma's Avatar
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    1: Aren't the Blood Angels the "honorable" marines? and Dante the "Tactical Genius" marine captain? If that's so, that line fits them perfectly.
    2: Not all Necrons have a burning hate of life, especially in 5th edition with their new fluff where Necron Lords have personalities and character, if anything it makes more sense for the Necrons to stop fighting than for the Space marines from my point of view, considering marines are supposed to be fanatical anti-xeno defenders of humanity.

  43. #43
    1: Aren't the Blood Angels the "honorable" marines? and Dante the "Tactical Genius" marine captain? If that's so, that line fits them perfectly.
    They do, but why show honour to an enemy undeserving as such? Necrons burn whole worlds, Imperial worlds when they least expect it and for the most part show no remorse, systematically and coldly genociding Imperial citizens. Grudging respect for each other's abilities sure, but as a race.. not so sure. At least with the Tau they have a concept of being tolerant, hence why Calgar allowed some to leave when he was ordering an exterminatus (probably as to not anger the rest of the hornet's nest and put a good word out for them).
    2: Not all Necrons have a burning hate of life, especially in 5th edition with their new fluff where Necron Lords have personalities and character, if anything it makes more sense for the Necrons to stop fighting than for the Space marines from my point of view, considering marines are supposed to be fanatical anti-xeno defenders of humanity.
    Generally it can be seen that Necrons were made to become the perfect soldier- along with a hatred of all life carried over from their Necrontyr legacy. Some Lords should have sway over how they feel however- they could have developed some sort of mental conflict going on with the Silent King, or that he prides his domain and the BA as worthy enough opponents to give him a run for his money.

  44. #44
    while i agree that the story could of used some animosity in the conclusion to show that they are still enemies and that neither side truely wanted to let the other withdrawl... i think it still comes across largely as an example of how Necrons and Space Marines are not a mindless threat which will throw themselves at the enemy in hopeless situations. Unlike the some Imperial Guard regiments, Orks, or tyranids which will commit forces to a conflict until every last one is dead...

  45. #45
    Tomas Macabee is a necron pariah of note that someone here may one to check out, also in fluff I've read, it recounted a surgeon or someone dissecting various alien creatures for his inquistor, then after finally dissecting the last creature the inquisitor reveals he is actually a necron pariah.
    And btw in regards to the tyranids and necrons, both avoid each other as much as possible for two reasons:
    1.) Necrons have ceased being biological creatures, so the tyranids avoid them like the plaque be because it can only result in a loss for them.
    2.) Although C'tan feed on the life force of creatures it's actually the soul of a creature which they crave, (hence why they got off suns) and unlike every other creature in the galaxy the Tyranids have no soul, this is why they carry a shadow in the warp. So necrons only engage them when deemed neccessary, but the tyranids almost 99% of the time avoid the necrons, because it is always a lose/lose situaiton for them.

    ----------

    Tomas Macabee is a necron pariah of note that someone here may one to check out, also in fluff I've read, it recounted a surgeon or someone dissecting various alien creatures for his inquistor, then after finally dissecting the last creature the inquisitor reveals he is actually a necron pariah.
    And btw in regards to the tyranids and necrons, both avoid each other as much as possible for two reasons:
    1.) Necrons have ceased being biological creatures, so the tyranids avoid them like the plaque be because it can only result in a loss for them.
    2.) Although C'tan feed on the life force of creatures it's actually the soul of a creature which they crave, (hence why they got off suns) and unlike every other creature in the galaxy the Tyranids have no soul, this is why they carry a shadow in the warp. So necrons only engage them when deemed neccessary, but the tyranids almost 99% of the time avoid the necrons, because it is always a lose/lose situaiton for them.

    ----------

    oops my bad for the double post.
    In dedicato imperatum ultra articulo mortis (For the Emperor beyond the point of death)
    So swears the Legion of the Damned......
    http://fc01.deviantart.com/fs37/i/20...harpWriter.jpg

  46. #46
    Sigh, more horrible fluff from Matthew ward.

  47. #47
    Ok, I have read the point of view based on /tg/ and 4chan (which seems to be quite popular here) and the fluff itself, it's just the usual confirmation people at the internet have a tendency to flanderize too much, there is no novelty about space marines (or imperials in general) working from time to time alongside xenos to defeat a major threat, besides there is no part of the fluff where it says the Silent King was emotional about the Blood Angels as allies, he just saw the Blood Angels were more useful alive and dealing with the Tyranids than vaporized, and the Blood Angels themselves, well, honour is honour, and if you add to that the fact they have come to a cease fire situation and no side could keep going due depleted numbers, well, good for the Blood Angels it was Dante the one in charge and not some fanatical Sister of Battle who would have only managed to get herself and the remaining troops killed.

    I know most of you love the idea about imperials always being fanatical nuts who prefer to get killed before taking a more rational way to deal with a situation, but there is plenty of fluff (long before G.C Goto and Matt Ward) that shows they can actually use some common sense and take advantage of the situation, check the Grey Knights omnibus, or Ciaphas Cain novels, Ultramarines and Tau or Tallarn and Eldar fluff from the codex and you will see this is not so insane.
    The Blue Space Marines are like, the best Space Marines ever! They're Blue and they're Space Marines! They like to follow rules just like Cub Scouts so they don't have any super powers or special units but they do have a guy with two big fists and a lot of bling. That makes them the best!

  48. #48
    I know most of you love the idea about imperials always being fanatical nuts who prefer to get killed before taking a more rational way to deal with a situation, but there is plenty of fluff (long before G.C Goto and Matt Ward) that shows they can actually use some common sense and take advantage of the situation, check the Grey Knights omnibus, or Ciaphas Cain novels, Ultramarines and Tau or Tallarn and Eldar fluff from the codex and you will see this is not so insane.
    Here is the infamous passage:

    "..The stalemate is broken only when a Tyranid Splinter Fleet enters orbit, forcing the two armies to break off hostilities and fight the common foe. The impromptu alliance proves to be the Tyranids' undoing. Following the final battle at Devil's Crag, Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways, both forces now too battleworn to guarantee victory over the other, and, at least for the Blood Angels, the idea of turning on those they had so recently fought alongside, a rather distasteful one.."

    There's no debate over grand strategy, from a strategic point the BA's and Necrons did the right thing to ensure their survival. From a characteristic point of view, I do not understand- why would they find turning on Necrons distasteful when the Silent King was killing countless brothers who they rate above all xenos? The encounter should have ended along the lines of the "battle has ended, now get out of my sight".

    We're not saying "they would never ally no matter what" it's their reactions afterwards that has people raising eyebrows, especially for Blood Angels who are more like a force that just goes ahead and kills with rage rather than obsess over distaste and killing that which they were born and genetically modified to hate. The SM aren't wholly a fanatical force (instead that goes to the SoB with burn the heretics) but they do have some fanatical views that they can be flexible with.

    The passage more or less comes off as "they both couldn't really kill each other by the end of it, and the loss of countless Blood Angel battle brothers didn't really faze Dante or the rest of the Blood Angels, because turning on battle allies even when they're a race of cthulhuite metal horrors makes Blood Angels feel sick."

    Again, it's all about out of character excecution- plausible strategically and fluffwise but in character it wasn't done right, especially with probably one of the worst foes to pick for showing a level of mutual respect (otherwise they wouldn't have shown distaste at the prospect of turning on them).
    Last edited by Elerium; 29th Jul 11 at 9:08 AM.

  49. #49
    Oop wanted to correct my shadow in the warp quip, it's actually because there are too many nids (which are all psychic) in a given area.<-- that's the reason for the shadow in the warp.

    "Here is the direct excerpt from the codex --> In order to move from planet to planet, human spacecraft travel through an alternate dimension known as warpspace. Warpspace is the medium through which human Astrotelepaths send psychic messages enabling the million worlds of the hnperium to communicate with each other. The Tyranid hive fleet also moves through the warp. Normally any space-craft moving through the warp sets up vibrations which can be detected by a human Astropath, but the hive fleet is so unimaginably vast that it creates an impenetrable disturbance like a huge blocking shadow in the warp. This shadow is the dark, impenetrable will of the hive mind itself, before which the astral spirit of a puny psyker is about as safe as a candle in a hurricane.

    Once the Tyranid hive fleet arrives, the shadow cast by the hive mind presents an impenetrable block which prevents Astropaths from sending or receiving telepathic messages, stops spacecraft entering the warp and forces spacecraft already in the warp wildly off-course. As the Tyranid hive fleet advances, the area of the Imperium swallowed up by it simply stops communicating, giving almost no clues as to what has happened."

    *Sorry from deviating from the post I wanted to correct that

    ----------

    Oop wanted to correct my shadow in the warp quip, it's actually because there are too many nids (which are all psychic) in a given area.<-- that's the reason for the shadow in the warp.

    "Here is the direct excerpt from the codex --> In order to move from planet to planet, human spacecraft travel through an alternate dimension known as warpspace. Warpspace is the medium through which human Astrotelepaths send psychic messages enabling the million worlds of the hnperium to communicate with each other. The Tyranid hive fleet also moves through the warp. Normally any space-craft moving through the warp sets up vibrations which can be detected by a human Astropath, but the hive fleet is so unimaginably vast that it creates an impenetrable disturbance like a huge blocking shadow in the warp. This shadow is the dark, impenetrable will of the hive mind itself, before which the astral spirit of a puny psyker is about as safe as a candle in a hurricane.

    Once the Tyranid hive fleet arrives, the shadow cast by the hive mind presents an impenetrable block which prevents Astropaths from sending or receiving telepathic messages, stops spacecraft entering the warp and forces spacecraft already in the warp wildly off-course. As the Tyranid hive fleet advances, the area of the Imperium swallowed up by it simply stops communicating, giving almost no clues as to what has happened."

    *Sorry from deviating from the post I wanted to correct that

    ----------

    Dammit, sorry bout the double post again it says it doesn't register the first time

  50. #50

    1st Post

    I can think of several reasons why the Necrons would fight the Tyranids.

    1.) The Necrons are JUST coming out of stasis after a really freaking long time. If the Nids scour the galaxy of all life they'll have to go back into stasis, and it's implied that tey can't handle that right now. The Nightbringer, in his entry in the Codex, is claimed to have nearly starved the last time.

    2.) The Tyranids, while mostly animals, have enough of whatever it is that the C'Tan prefer to feed on that they are worth slaughtering. The Necron Codex implies that emotions have a lot to do with it and the 'Nids can feel rage at least.

    3.) The Necrons hate all life. Nids count as life.


    As for why the Necrons would ally with the BA (from the Necron perspective);

    1.) They couldn't defeat the Nids without them (just cause they can Phase Out and come back later doesn't mean they don't want to stop the Nids from securing a potentially strategically important planet now)

    2.) It's part of the game of the Deceiver to corrupt the Imperium. Remember in the Necron Codex it plainly states (pg 31, last section titled 'New Beginnings') that the Deceiver started the Gothic War (they don't say how he did this, possibly Abaddon was already invading and the deceiver just escalated everything) simply to remove a few Talisman of Vaul. The Necrons are REALLY good at long term planning.

    3.) The Silent King wanted to better understand how the BA fight, to counter it more effectively later. Sacrifice a victory now to destroy the entire Chapter later. Again, people forget that the Necrons are patience personified.

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