[1.2 SS] SoB countering FW's fail

[calamoide]

Epic fail countering FW's. Double Seraphim BO.
Covering thread:
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthre...93#post3875493
Any advice?

[Cat_Dance]

Ok, first you should play on normal maps, that are actually made for 1v1 play (maps in the automatch rotation for example) where you can maneuver, harass, etc. You'll have more than just the 2 points+relic right in your base meaning that 1) a harass will limit your opponent's eco and 2) if unharassed, you will gain a big eco advantage.

Second, you definitely need to micro a lot more. You just let your units sit while the TC chained snare traps on you. You HAVE to kill the traps, or if you do get snared, jump away. If your squad is going to die off, run or jump out, dont just sit there and die.

When you go to harass, dont just try to tie units up - it has to accomplish something. You should go after builders and stealthsuits first (thats what i mean when i said ignore the tc). The whole point is to keep tau's eco low by limiting his ability to cap/lp so that he cant get a mass of units up. If you tie anything up, it should only be to let you kill something else (tie up a squad of fw's or the TC so that you can kill a builder/gen/whatever) or to keep things from killing your fragile ranged dps base (seras/missionaries tie up fw's while sobs fire at fw's). Tying up your opponent's units when you have no support will do nothing except get your units killed off, albeit slowly.

Attached is a rep for clarity, forgive the poor micro/macro

[calamoide]

Thank you very much for your efforts and advice.
- I'll play other maps in the ranked pool.
- Never thought of killing the snare traps (Did you do in your replay?). I will try that. I agree on my lack of micro when being outgunned.
- Definitively, what I have to change the most is thinking of harass instead of killing combat units. I see your point, builders and stealthsuits go down much faster than FWs, doing more damage to opponent's economy.

BUT was I actually saw in your replay is that you were killing builders(req) while you lost seraphims (req+power). AI keeps getting more builders, when I think a human enemy would go for FWs (or kroots) instead to try to outsquad you (or at least have some firepower). Not many stealthsuits nor any LP were killed, thus investing in new builders was the big mistake. From there on, game is yours.
I would like to know what to do in this hypothetical situation: TC + 2xFWs against 2xSeras + BSS, or any other where you have equal number of squads.

If you tie anything up, it should only be to let you kill something else (tie up a squad of fw's or the TC so that you can kill a builder/gen/whatever) or to keep things from killing your fragile ranged dps base (seras/missionaries tie up fw's while sobs fire at fw's). Tying up your opponent's units when you have no support will do nothing except get your units killed off, albeit slowly.

This.

I can't try it right now, but I'll post my results.
Thanks a lot, really.

[Cat_Dance]

If you have 2 seras+bss (should be with flamers and an attached missionary) against a tc+2 fw squads - bss move in first, when tau starts shooting at them or just slightly before, seras jump in and go into melee with the fw squads, everything ignores the TC. Seras start on melee stance so they tie up immediately, then switched to ranged with use of force melee (easier to kill snares/gun down moving fw's, melee tieup as needed)

[calamoide]

Acknowledged
I'll try that and post my impressions.
Anyway this matchup is by far the hardest for me. It requires quite a lot of micro (for my level of play, of course).

[Cat_Dance]

Alternatively you could try just 3x bss->flamer mass or phosphor nades (phosphors because you wont lose dps if a member carrying a weapon dies). Easier to micro around since you wont need to switch stances and flamers might kill snares by accident with their aoe.

[calamoide]

Finally I got it.
Despite floating, idle units and bad micro/macro and worse strategic decisions I beat Tau.
Here's the replay, comments on it will be more than welcome.

[Cat_Dance]

There ya go, nice work. Still be careful of the snares, as they can turn a game really fast. Good work getting celes in early t2, and dont be afraid to use them in melee if your seras are doing something else- celes are a solid tieup unit (fast, heavy_high armor class, good melee damage, decent ranged damage for when things run away). You had some floating going on, understandable but just know to keep it in check by building gens. Iirc you skipped the holy icons which imo are a big part of a sera build - seras and celes generate faith for your abilities (great for the confessor). Going Holy Reliquary (for fessor+maybe dca's) early in t2 is a good transition from a t1 sera build (with icons built) as you can smite any blobs of fw's. Anyway good work, keep it up!

[calamoide]

Thanks Cat. Next step is human players!