Ultimate Apocalypse - 1.72.5 Released!

[IronWarrior42]

@ Sumajin, i don't wish to derail this thread so I will only say that, empirically speaking, your statements, especially "Too much effort for quite minor visual change.", regarding the CONCEPT of the addition of other armies/races to dow or dow mods in GENERAL are demonstrably false.

@ Cylarne, Fantastic breakthrough with Gates! Cannot wait to try them out!

[Cylarne_04]

http://www.gamefront.com/files/21239...ting+Gates.zip

Link is up, if you wish to provide feedback, please do say so before the release of 1.62.6. I hope to release that like Saturday or Sunday.

[IronWarrior42]

says "Page Not Found".

[Cylarne_04]

try now

[jONES1979]

BT are a never ever cause they aren't needed as a seperate race, they are technically still space marines. ... Finally but not least important, I honestly dont see the point in adding any of them, how would you do that? Would you have three or even 4 space marine races with exactly the same units, just different fluffy stuff? Sorry but NOW I can see why BT wont be added, ppl would want blood angels and any other myriad chapters with bits and peices for them. Too much effort for quite minor visual change.

STUPIDEST. STATEMENTS. EVER.


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EDIT:

EDIT: Oh and please dont go on in some super smart language that im not going to fully understand, i tried to make mine as simple as possible whilst trying to imply that im being polite and not simply keyboard warrioring it up.

I hope you will able to understand this. Your statements ABOVE are ridiculous, since you never played mentioned mods (and know nothing about them, except "they are space marines too"), as we can see from this:

If Dark Angels, Black Templar () would have VERY differnt playstyles to that of the current space marine chapter. Or would they be relatively the same apart from a few unit differences ( emperors champion, sword bretheren (veteran vanguards much?) sanquinary guard, ravenwing (which are bikes anyway, seems like they arent being implemented) deathwing terminators, various dreadnaught and tank patterns) and visual elements such as iconography and symbology.

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Calling people stupid is not a good answer.

Nobody said "this man is stupid", but Smart Man made wrong statements because of wrong arguments, based on hypothesis instead of facts

[etherealtau]

@Argonaut: thanks for popping in to support. I won't be doing much major revamping yet, your code structure will stay the same. Just adding new units and changing the unit sizes. Maybe I will change the spawn time for the vehicle_attacks.scar to give ppl some breathing space before hell breaks loose.

I'm still pretty much an amateur so I definitely would need help when things get dicey.

I can't wait to see the 1.7 survival mod. I'm still using the older unoff. 1.5 mod as 1.6 is lost to the warp?

The map PsykoTenshi suggested would be a good format for a large scale survival map when modified. http://www.gamefront.com/files/6380604/Fort_Veux

[Sumajin]

Alright i dont know how to respond to ppl saying that im stupid or that my statements are false, with no actual statement themselves that can say, THIS IS POSSIBLE.
(Jones and Ironwarrior im talking to you)
I am more than happy to be proven wrong if someone can tell me:

If Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Black Templar (maybe more if others make more mods) would have VERY different playstyles to that of the current space marine chapter. Or would they be relatively the same apart from a few unit differences ( emperors champion, sword bretheren (veteran vanguards much?) sanquinary guard, ravenwing (which are bikes anyway, seems like they arent being implemented) deathwing terminators, various dreadnaught and tank patterns) and visual elements such as iconography and symbology.

In my opinion, the addition of the few units above would not make as much as a differnce to the game as one would think, nor be as valuable to the players of the game as would a race like the deamons being added. This is why i am saying that most of the changes for these chapters would only be visual. Such as the wings for the blood angels, or robes for the dark angels. Id rather not drop this for i feel i am making a valid point and unless, respectfully, you can say otherwise, i believe that my statements should be considered.

EDIT: Oh and please dont go on in some super smart language that im not going to fully understand, i tried to make mine as simple as possible whilst trying to imply that im being polite and not simply keyboard warrioring it up.

EDIT 2: The units are ones attributed to those chapters, not speaking directly about different mods.

[zulmetefza]

I can agree with Sumajin. Technically, they are space marines too. And biologically, they are humans like steel legion, imperial guard, sisters of battle, daemonhunters, chaos space marines, space marines. Seriously, there are like 13 fully playable races around, and 7 of them (8/14 if dark angels are added too) are humans? Of course, this is not a big problem, if we don't like it, then we have a chance to not install them at all. But the point is, they are very awesome mods, and we can't help it. I just think that W40k is not this human-centered. And I like play with random races, and feel of a small part of the universe as a human.

I see that Sumajin was not trying to attack your mods, as myself. But "too much effort for a few changes." is a reasonable statement. I played all of the races, really, there are differences except cosmetic changes, but this is a reality from the fluff. They can't be too much different.

Calling people stupid is not a good answer.

[Kandras]

I agree with the two previous statements.

[IronWarrior42]

Sumajin and Zulmetra: Id rather not drop this either but this is Cylarnes UA thread, not his "Teach the Ignorant What They Don't Know" thread. Jones and I made our statements about Sumajins ignorant assertions, The End.

@Cylarne: Will be testing gates thoroughly over the next couple of days, will report after that.

[Sumajin]

ironwarrior sorry mate but you are the ignorant one, if you dont have the time to explain yourself, then dont go talking shit.

jones honestly im not having a go at other peoples creations. if you consider our arguments as gameplay oriented, youll see that, stop sticking your nose up cause you think im saying what youve done isnt worth the effort, im saying that gameplay wise, it doesnt make that much of a difference.
oh and YOU called my statements stupid read your own post. its in capitol letters.

EDIT: Neither of you have given any form of statement as to why im wrong. all im seeing is YOU ARE WRONG I AM RIGHT BUT IM NOT GOING TO GIVE ANY REASON AS TO WHY. To say that i am ignorant and that my statement is wrong because its a "hypothesis instead of facts" are not appropriate.

EDIT 2: From what i know DG isnt out, BA is dead, and i have the BT mod downloaded.

[titlams]

How the Hell are the Black Templers and the Blood Angles the same? Maybe some troops are the same, but distribution of troops, weapons, doctrines and such are completely different. To say they are like the same is like saying. USA, Russia and Iran armed forces all are the same, because they are all human.

[Sumajin]

Alright for starters, ive never said they were the same, please read what my post says. If anyone can honestly say that the statement "BT are a never ever cause they aren't needed as a seperate race, they are technically still space marines." is wrong, please, please give me an explanation why. Whats wrong with it? They ARE space marines, pretty sure there is a post from cylarne saying black templars and steel legion are never ever, i would love to be corrected or vouched for by cylarne for that, would end the argument abruptly imo.

Having 3 space marine chapters(BT,BA,DG), all BASED on the codex astartes and the other 11 races with thier OWN, UNIQUE PLAY STYLE would seem almost as though the space marines own the entire galaxy, In my opinion.

[Gambit]

From my part, I believe the "truth" is somewhere in the middle:
1] It is true that most Space Marines chapters that are available as separate armies/races (BA, BT, DA, etc) DO share many similarities.
2] And it is also true that they have VASTLY different ways of playing (be it strategy, tech, branches, deployment, etc.). From my experience, Black Templars are TOTALLY different in battle philosophy than Dark Angels (and battle is NOT the only aspect these armies differ!)

So, it is only a matter of perspective - and the degree each of us focuses on his own

My perspective is that it is a design issue that should be discussed - in the rare case more "armies" turn Apocalyptic, that is.


Sumajin said:

Having 3 space marine chapters(BT,BA,DG), all BASED on the codex astartes and the other 11 races with thier OWN, UNIQUE PLAY STYLE would seem almost as though the space marines own the entire galaxy, In my opinion.

Brother, I think that the fluff-base GW chose for WH40k is the Imperium of Man. Space Marines (and their Chaos adversaries) pretty much IS the centre around which all the fluff spins.... I am not implying that the other races are not important - it's just that the Imperium enjoys a "special" treatment from GW...

[Sumajin]

Okay now if some had originally posted something like the above i would have gladly accepted that i was wrong, i can agree with most things that youve put forward. By the way im not saying i know everything, but i do know quite a bit, ive read far too much of the wh40k wiki and lexicanum sites. Thankyou for calmly resolving this, i hope others in this will follow suit and drop the subject now

Incase u cbf reading, im wrong, accepted.

EDIT: judging by your sig gambit im glad you dont think im an idiot

[Xaitan]

I am sad to see how such a simple dispute turned into meaningless insults/drivel.

Very well put Gambit, the only way to provide a convincing argument is to use legitimate sources. Right at the beginning of this I turned to my archive of Codex to support my statement.

But if this is not enough for someone to be convinced, then rather than disagreeing based on there own opinion, they should provide a counter argument using a source supporting there opinion.

This would then prevent this wave of un-required posts as the matter would have been resolved much more humbly and may actually inform users of information they may not have known before hand.

[Cosmocrat]

Ok people as i see here is some kind of war going on about adding new Space Marines or not i think that i have to reminder you that the Idea behind our efforts is to not crowd the list of playable races that much. Cylarne said that several pages ago and this was also the initial reason why we first discarded the Steel Legion and all other possibly non totally different full races as additions.
Remember that every race that's going to be added needs a bunchload of reworking and code to fit it's Apocalypticness. It's not that hush add some variables here and change some values over there! You have to give them Titans, Superweapons and balance the units up against ALL the other races! This is just an horrible amount of work alltogether and thus we really have to check the pros and cons of every new possible full race addition wisely. It was legit yet on the Tyranids, Demons and Demonhunters but adding several substitutes though different Chapter-pseudo-races would blast the necessary time to accomplish a new release up into oblivion.
As we want to bring up forward the current release we REALLY have to check which is possible to add and whatnot. As you guys don't to wait forever i guess. I don't say that i wouldn't be possible to see some more new races in the future at all but don't expect as much from the grand release in this terms people as our focus lays yet on other things i am afraid.

If you really want to play a HECKLOAD of new races/chapters then i encourage you to play Dawn of Coalescense as soon as it sees the light of Day. But until then please turn down the volume in here abit as seeing manners going outta control isn't funny as this should be a place for constructive critism not a laud 'n' dirdy Gorka Morka Moshpit XD.

Have a nice day then and further happy speculating of what's going to await ya in the future :3

-Cosmocrat

[Cylarne_04]

This conversation/dispute ends here folks.

I'm more than interested about hearing different subjects.

EDIT: Cosmocrat beat me to the punch and summed it up perfectly. ... ...

[.:Zack Fair:.]

/Hate

Guys..stay calm Why do you have to fight? Everyone should hug the other one We're all brothers!

/"High" mode relatively off now xD

[Tomb Deathwing]

O.K changing topic now..


@etherealtau ...Mr Argonaut has given the blessing....yahoo......

How is the progress of the conversion of the survival maps good sir :?

and how it will be implement in UA or activate...new module or only maps?
if is module ...would be XXp3?

[Arkagunner328]

uhhh what is testing gates? (sorry i sound like an idiot but ive been gone for a while)

[Sumajin]

testing gates is a test mod which is the same as vanilla soulstorm with a really zoomed in camera and you can build the walls which are testing the gate option soon to be implemented into UA mod.

Thankyou cylarne and cosmo

[SandroniusPrime]

Hi there ! Wonderful mod !!! I'm really enthusiast about it !!!! ))

I would to report a bug: IG AI is broken.

In 8 player (usually SM BT IG xx vs El El T T or Orks) maps 1024 x 1024 (old good Battklefiekld. And if they lay down to rest) IG allies doesn't go over tier 2 and the spam only a lot of infantry and Hellhound but nothing more.

Your mod is grat I wish that you found a solution for this bug.

Thank you

Can't wait for next release

[Sumajin]

Well Sandronius that does not sound good at all, i happened to download "And if they lay us down to rest" last night so ill give it a test now and see what happens

EDIT: If that actually is BT (black templars) and not just a typo, that would explain why, you have modded the game yourself and probably overlapped a few files between the 2, BT not being "apocalypised" coding data etc.

[SandroniusPrime]

Hi there ! Happy to hear that you try to chek that problem

BT are those ones of jones 1979. I've did that modification by adding also skirmish ai 3.2 and objective point ss (that are required from BT) and also Steel Legion.

Ok with the past version of apocalypse mod everithing run very well.

SL and BT worked very well. Please note that BT and SL do well do well also in the actual version of mod.

The problem is for the IG and IDH that I've cheked now. They don't go over the Tier 2.

It was really great play with BT and SL in previous version. I wish that run again

Thank you guys

[Gambit]

Friend SadroniusPrime I am glad you like UA! Your notes are helpful.
Now, as Sumajin successfully pointed out, please try as much as possible to keep the UA mod "unmodified" when reporting issues - Cylarne and the team cannot address issues that are the result of possible file conflicts!!

@Sumajin: Thanks for your devotion to this MOD brother... Your comments are very welcomed!

[SandroniusPrime]

Then.. Ok

[gab]

Hello Guys! I just wanna ask does this mod require 1.20 installed? thx

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Ok and one more question Does this mod contain ALL FoK models? or just some?

[Hilux317]

I know I brought this up a few pages back (just give me the word and I'll let it go), but I've played a bit more and I still think that the UA mod would be better if relic units used vehicle or squad caps. I'll list my reasons why I think this might be a good idea:
- I think that DOW plays better when you need to balance your army between smaller and larger units - currently I find that I seem to capture a relic, build one of each superunit, then blitz to victory, and other units play only a minor role. I suppose I would rather a game where there is incentive to balance your forces between unit types rather than such a reliance on the biggest units.
- I recognise the argument that the apocalypse mod is designed for big battles, and that making relic units use squad or vehicle cap would mean they would fill up your army. But surely if a player wanted to have vast battles they can turn the caps up using the 'Extreme battles' wincondition and this would overcome the issue? If you believe battles needed to be even bigger we could put in bigger 'Extreme battles' type winconditions.
- I find in smaller maps with relics (e.g. Valley of Khorne), so many superunits are on the field that nothing else matters. I know that 'small' isn't what the apocalypse mod is going for, but sometimes I like a smaller skirmish with normal sized armies (without the massive battles/extreme battles winconditions). It doesn't feel like a small skirmish when there are so many relic units on the field. I have been turning relic units off to overcome this, but I feel that being able to increase or reduce the caps is a better way of determining battle size.
- I think that holding a relic, while it should be a vital advantage, is now overpowering. If there is a map with one relic, and one side got it, then it can deploy it's superunits on top of a complete army, making it unstoppable. If the superunits used cap, then at least the team without the relic would have more regular units, reducing the imbalance. This way holding a relic would be an advantage, without being game ending.
- there's a certain lack of tactical flexibility when you can have only one of each superunit. If they used cap then you could potentially deploy multiple superunits of the same type. This means that you could concentrate on building the type of superunit that best fits the enemy you are fighting (e.g. using the Stormblade's giant plasma guns against the Necrons). Removing all limits might not be a great idea, but perhaps a limit of 3? Of course building this many superheavies would require a trade-off and you could field fewer other units, but it does give you more tactical options.

Anyway, those are my reasons for bringing this idea up. Some are just to my personal taste (e.g. the desire to play smaller battles every now and again), while I think some are more universal (holding the only relic becoming almost a guaranteed win, rather than an advantage). I thought that using cap for superunits worked in the older versions of the apocalypse mod and was surprised to find it had changed. I won't harass you guys anymore over this, I'm just trying to offer a constructive suggestion to make a fun mod even better. Thanks, and I'll look forward to hearing your thoughts on the matter.

[Tomb Deathwing]

nope......relic with cap ? it won't pass....


that method was included in previous patch.....i think very few people play the XXP1 i think?

[gab]

Guys I really need your help! D: Ok my Soulstorm is fully updated and I install this mod the I play the "Ultimate Apocalypse" first in the game manager and it works I played with the AI 4vs4 it was FUN but anyways I tried the " Ultimate Apocalypse New Races" when I activate it if failed the UA new races wont load pls help I want to play Daemonhunters so bad D:

[RevanFan]

Guys I really need your help! D: Ok my Soulstorm is fully updated and I install this mod the I play the "Ultimate Apocalypse" first in the game manager and it works I played with the AI 4vs4 it was FUN but anyways I tried the " Ultimate Apocalypse New Races" when I activate it if failed the UA new races wont load pls help I want to play Daemonhunters so bad D:

Did you download and install the Tyranids 0.51b mod and the Daemonhunters mod separately first?

[baby38]

There are no Sync-kill motion in this version for heavy units like Carnifex [tyranids]
and corpses disappear so quickly even though i set the option as 'Remaining much corpses'
i expect for 1.62.6 patch to modify all these errors, Thanx for ur labor.

[Sumajin]

@Hilux I read through your comments 3 times, just to make sure i understood it all. The last time you brought this up I disagreed with you, but you've put forward quite a compelling case. Ive found myself playing without relic units because i dont wanna vs 4 land raiders at the same time as 5 predators. Only problem is, playing with them on, i still feel its pretty balanced. Im sorry i dont have the time at the moment to explain myself further (if you respond to this ill be able to respond properly in the morning) but I have to say that by making them use the squad/vech cap (even with limits of 3 for eg.) The non relic side would still have the same disadvantage that they do now. However it does annoy me slightly that once ur 30 mins into the game space marine squads and scout squads are almost useless (space marine fan, did some testing grounds just then lol damn Imperial fists killed me :P)

@gab Do what revanfan said and ur fine, download and install those, then launch NR.

@baby38 the tyranids arent updated by UA, they have their own mod. and i wouldnt have a clue as to why you would want permanent corpses on an apocalypse match, talk about lag spikes. Finally, you shouldnt "expect" anything, you should submit something of constructive nature and thats that really.

[Hilux317]

Thanks Sumajin, I'll look forward to reading your comments tomorrow.

[Michael1980]

What new units, if any, will be included in this updated version?

[etherealtau]

@ Tomb Deathwing: Just the basic adding of UA units will be a no brainer job but its just very tedious and time-consuming with the current 11 races we currently have. I have "completed" the chaos, guard and orks attack scars. I'm playing around with the various UA races using vanilla survival attack waves and tweaking them.

As I said sometime earlier, I just installed parts of the survival mod into either the beta_apocalypse/beta_apocalypse_nr folders and run directly from the normal skirmish. AFAIK it doesn't affect anything. I'm not sure how the module system works (noobie that I am)

I could just release the pack now with my chaos, guards and orks scars + the unedited other races. Perfectly playable but incomplete as of now. The original wargear and other survival mod win conditions are untested and unchanged. Any takers? You can comment if the waves are too weak, impossible or downright explodes your com.

[Tyrantarmy6]

@Hilux317: You put some interresting arguments up to support your suggestion indeed! However I don't feel like this would be a positive change. It would remove the apocalypticness of the battles a little. Though the ALPHA has found it's own way around this! It isn't truely the way you want with that idea of yours. but I really like the addition of that something.
I feel like it makes the smaller units a lot more useful, but keeping the apocalypticness of the bigger ones in! And... adding a LOT more tactical stuff!
I won't go into any details on it though. :P

[Count Bagatur]

Excuse me, the submods for Ultimate Apocalypse are planned in future? (for ex. new races, units, new superweapons)

[Argonaut]

etherealtau - send me what files you've finished, I'll test.

[Gambit]

@Count Bagatur: As far as I am informed, the UA team will currently remain loyal to its present goals.
1] The "new races" version of the UA will include Daemon Hunters and Tyranids as you all well now. NO new races planned.
2] There is a big secret (among others) in the Grand Release that will please you all!! I cannot say more.
3] As Tyrantarmy mentioned, there is a VERY GOOD and innovating idea (our mastermind Cylarne conceived it) concerning Titan-like units. Undisputedly, it is THE BEST design solution to integrating Titans to DOW. It is simple, PERFECTLY reasonable, extremely balanced and well-implemented. It includes most notions made by our friend Hilux317, but with NO DRAWBACKS!!!

Guys, please do not request more info, you will spoil all the fan!!! (I hope I haven't disclosed more than I should, or else Cylarne will banish me!)

P.S.: Needless to say, I am grateful our Brother Cylarne leads this project!!!!

[baby38]

i mean such an error (like when the Trygon let the infantries fly away, the infantries are all stopped in air) is newly detected in 1.62.59 ver.
and when carnifex finish its enemy, they just don't take any motion though.
Permanent corpses were applicable setting in last version too, it must be an error so i wanted to report it.
And i should expect to modify that errors in 1.62.6 ver.
Now i hope you understand what i expect. sumajin ^^

[Wolfways1969]

@baby38
I apologise if im wrong, but i assume that English isn't your first language.
While i'm sure the UA team appreciate any suggestions or bug reports you can give, using the word "expect" sounds like you are demanding something, and i'm sure that was not what you intended...i hope

[Chaosbringer]

@ Tomb Deathwing: Speaking of XXP1,why is it removed along with XP1?I played there like crazy and i enjoyed the Apocalypse that i can bring there,especially the fact that i can build as many
units and vehicles as i want.

[Count Bagatur]

Cylarne_04, how is about beta-testing, sir?

[PsykoTenshi]

Regarding the Tyranids, I see we're supposed to have version 0.51b of the Tyranid mod... However, I have the ye olde 0.45 version and UA New Races runs perfectly fine. What concerns me however, is if this may cause sync errors on multiplayer.
Does anyone have more info on this?

[Sumajin]

@baby38 yea sorry man i think i misinterpreted what you were saying same as what wolfways said "using the word "expect" sounds like you are demanding something, and i'm sure that was not what you intended...i hope" Sadly my answers stay the same. Tyranids mod, NOT OUR JOB, thats for the tyranid mod, comment to them about that. And im pretty sure that putting corpses on maximum is permanent corpses, in saying that, im also pretty sure that there never was a "PERMANENT' corpses choice, just the longest amount of time untill they dissipate.

@chaosbringer i think i read a few pages back somewhere (it could be on MODDB) that through balancing with the ALPHA mod, XP1 and XXP1 were unbalanced, i believe it was cylarne that said something along the lines of "here's a hint, relic resource :P". Now im not a team member so you can consider my talk about the mod speculation.

@Psykotenshi well im using 0.51b and skirmish works fine. I dont know if ive personally made an error somewhere else (i havent modded my UA mod, added B&B, paintschemes and maps only) but when i try to play a multiplayer match i can only select tyranids, deamon hunters, sisters of battle and dark eldar. I think this is a different error now that ive written it out, looks like my game isnt registering that i have the other 3 games cd-keys implemented. Do i need to physically install the others for it to work? If so, i cant physically install soulstorm, i just copy/pasted the files from my pc to a HD and cut them over to my laptop from there, putting in the cd-keys when the game prompted.

@Count_bagatur UA mod already has an abundance of new units, gameplay styles, superweapons and has already incorperated 2 new races into the mod.(THIS ONE IS BIG, PEOPLE NEED TO STOP ASKING FOR IT, ITS TIME-CONSUMING CONSIDERING THE AMOUNT OF WORK THE UA MOD IS ALREADY DOING FOR THE GRAND RELEASE) As Gambit said there is a BIG surprise in the grand release, have a lurk around the UA mod threads and you might find it

@ Hilux Tyrantarmy summed it up.

If anyone is looking for a unit they might want implemented into the game for the grand release, see if its not here already, consider this a sneak peak at stuff that is or was in development

[Tomb Deathwing]

EVERYONE ....NOW!!!!!!XD

Download assault renegade fortress map TvT ...play it ,test it....:excited:

this current patch is compatible very good...the only downside is the AI ally suck (more the Tau ai)>.<
anyway....anyone know where to contact that map creator, for ask it if he can add one critical location for go full apocalypse? and ask it politely if he has time to provide us with a scar for be compatible 100% with UA .?

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I test it with all races...no fatal scar, but AI ally leave you wish with a better partner...

but the AI foe wow (challege)...the oks for the example , they send you 3 stompas asap when you are advancing in tier LOL

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100% UA assault map maniac XDDDDDDD :terminator:

[Kandras]

Tomb i would love to try it, but where from? please excuse my ignorance as i have no idea where to get said map from

[Tomb Deathwing]

HERE HERE HERE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://dawnofwar.filefront.com/file/...tress_v2;98778