Legendary: a League of Legends discussion

[Brenil]

I'd just like to point out the futility of arguing with Trizz about the merits of Gangplank. I doubt any sane person has played half the amount of games as Gangplank as he has, so trust his opinion to be more accurate than speculation and theorycraft. I know I do.

Also, I support the idea that Irelia is overpowered. She doesn't even really need damage items, you can build her as a tank and become tanky dps with built-in life steal. You can build her as an AP character that can become an AP carry, and you can build her into a DPS nightmare by actually buying damage items with her. Irelia was actually more or less fine after release, barring some tweaks, but then (like Caitlyn) they have been buffing her for no reason ever since.

[Jopax]

Maokai is one strange champ, he isn't terribly powerfull or useful to the team, but by god is he fun to play as, there is just something insanely fun with baiting some poor sod into scratching you near your tower and then just rooting his ass there so he gets his face torn off.The saplings are also very fun, with some proper aiming and maybe some luck a handful of those should be more than enough to cripple a lane early on.And his ult is pretty meh i agree, but it's useful in making squishy nukers like fiddle cry.Crowstorm? not on my watch bitch, then after he's done charging it for you you simply blast him away with the extra damage ^^
And i don't think he's meant to be a full on tank or caster, more like some sort of hybrid tanky caster that's there to annoy the enemy and make their lives miserable if they allow him to, something like Urgot i guess, except magic damage.

[Akranadas]

Trizz, Maokai's Ulti only does damage when you deactivate it, the other times it provides great damage protection to your team mates. Basically, Moakai's job seems to be to snare and slow the enemy; build some CD reduction into your build and you'll find you can be quite damn annoying to the enemy team

[Trizzdog]

I know what Maokai does. I have over 50 games of him under his belt. I know the ins and out of him. I know that CDR is good on him. I know what I should be doing. I know what he's good at, and what he's bad at.

Even if you manage to soak a full stack with your ult as him at level 18, it does 500 damage (IIRC, it might be 600 tops). 500 resistible damage. Since every not dumb person ever should get at least 100 magic resist by late game, that's around 250 magic damage if you manage to get an unobtainable full stack. Wop. De. Fucking. Do. If that was a heal instead of damage, then we'd be talking.

[Akranadas]

Would be cool if it healed rather than damaged, because what is the point of destroying damage resistance really?

[Trizzdog]

It would really fit the tank/support role, wouldn't it? Even if they don't engage in the circle, you can just heal your teammates. Of course you'd have to reduce the base heal because of the spammability of it, but then your allies would benefit greatly from fighting in it. And the enemy wouldn't just avoid it and make your ult explosion useless.

[Akranadas]

Does the explosion proc Rylai's Crystal Scepter slow? I know the 15% wouldn't be at all good, but could help the ability be less shit.

[Trizzdog]

I've thought of Rylai's Crystal Scepter on Maokai, since a health and AP item is exactly what he needs. I might try it more since a slow on saplings (even 15%) would be nice. Stacking slow on the smash would be funny, and well, the root would probably last longer than the slow, unfortunately. Having a bit of slow on the ult would be fine for late game, since with CDR you can get it down to like 12 seconds.

I haven't tried it though with the ultimate, since my build tries to maximize mana so you can spam shit all day every day. So that means Rod of Ages pushes aside the Scepter, unfortunately.

[Akranadas]

If you get a few lucky kills, a Rod of Ages and Rylai's Crystal Scepter Maokai could be pretty deadly.

[D-coy]

I don't think you need much AP on Maokai. I prefer building tank, with CDR and Mana. Maybe a RoA.

This way I might deal less damage than with AP, but I die less and can stay in fights spamming my CC, which is his main strength, imo.

[Akranadas]

All you need is AP and Health, as your Alt gives you good damage resist.

[Infidelicious]

20% mitigation isn't good. It's what you get from cloth armor or a null magic mantle, without your enemy having penetration items.

[Akranadas]

20% isn't anything to laugh at, and it isn't like having Cloth Armour or Null Magic Mantle.

Resistance at 50 gives 33%
Resistance at 100 gives 50%
Resistance at 150 gives 60%
Resistance at 200 gives 66%
Resistance at 250 gives 71%
Resistance at 300 gives 75%
Resistance at 350 gives 77%
Resistance at 400 gives 80%

Getting 20% is more like having an extra Aegis of the Legion which you can pop in team battles

[Trizzdog]

So the tankier you are, the more you benefit from 20% damage resistance. Huh. Weird how you mention that all you need is the ult, yet guess what's barely better than what infi mentioned when you don't have tank items.

[Akranadas]

Well, I don't take into account mastries or runes.

[[Vertigo]]

Kathas mirror matches are retarded. I hear a rumor that all mirror matches are retarded but most of them don't get to stick around in the center lane together until level 12.

[konfeta]

Really? Skillshot based mirrors are fairly fun. Now, a Vlad mirror on the other hand...

[Koozer]

Mirror matches can be great, it can really show you the effectiveness of your build and style compared to others. Dominating free week Heims is always fun too.

[D-coy]

Mirror solomid Janna grudge match... now that took ages.

[konfeta]

People let Janna go mid? O_o

[D-coy]

Sometimes... tower shield owns.

But it was only 3v3, 1v1 in each lane, mirror, custom game. For funsies.

[Trizzdog]

So I pirate tanky dps carried like a boss.

[Jopax]

So i kind of followed that build you got there Trizz, was sucky at first, died early because of lag and was harrased for a while by Rumble.Then my lanemate Malph DC-ed some 10 minutes into the game and we are left fighting 4v5.I'm kind of our tank since i have the most survivability alongside Sion.I didn't have much crit chance by midgame but that didn't matter, my ult kept the enemy team in place while i pegged away for some 350 parrrley damage.Then i got my Inf Edge, Bloodthirster and Atma's.400 damage with a 45% crit chance can ruin a persons day very easily.By the end we completley curbstomped the enemy team in every teamfight, oh they also had a GP who was going the usual critplank build.At one point i am going with him 1v1 he crits me for 400 damage, then i parrley him for 1k damage and another 700 with my normal attack killing him in two blows.
Also sniping people from across the map with the ult is great fun.

[Caesar]

My Rylai's Karthas was hilarious. You die a lot but you take 2+ with you each time. That was my pilot run. It only got better after that.

[Trizzdog]

Just keep in mind that I go with the build I have because I get crit runes to compensate for low amount of crit from items. And yes I replace the philo stone and brut with infinity edge, bloodthirster, and/or last whisperer depending on the enemy team.

[Kryopsis]

I respect your build, Trizzdog. Anyone who doesn't stack crit items like a moron deserves recognition.

[Brenil]

I stack crit items. 150% crit chance will pay off one of these days.

[Akranadas]

Until you get instantly Nuked by a Kassidan

[MagosMechanicus]

I thought crit chance grew multiplicatively, not additively? I.e. if you have no inherent chance and two hypothetical items giving 50% and 25% crit chance respectively, the resulting chance to crit is 0.5 + (1 - 0.5)*.25 = 0.625, or 62.5%.
Pretty sure this is how the dodge chance works, at least. After all, what would a crit change higher than 100% actually mean? You always crit, but have a chance to crit your crit for quadruple damage?

[konfeta]

Crit chance is additive. It does not go over 100%.

[D-coy]

Dodge is additive as well, but has diminishing returns. Not worth getting over 40% (or 30%).

Is there any reason you guys mispell Karthus and Kassadin ? (In-house joke?)

I think Magus confuses crit chance % with crit damage %.

Chance increases the times you crit, crit damage increases the damage you deal when you crit (another modifier to this is your attack damage).

[Trizzdog]

I've noticed a trend with certain AP characters. They stack Hextech Revolvers like dicks. This is especially mean on characters like Vlad and Akali.

[Akranadas]

It seems to be the new thing to do. Makes fighting Vlads even more annoying as they just can't seem to leave the lane once they get two.

[Kryopsis]

I faced Hextech Revolver Vladimirs in the past and they seemed to be absolutely useless in team fights. Sure they had a lot of staying power in lanes but a good bust-damage character would still get them down. Late game, you can just ignore them and focus on more vulnerable enemies. Out of curiosity, I tried Trizzdog's Gangplank build. My first game ended with 21/4/11 and while we lost the second game, I had 12/1/1. I unlocked Gangplank sometime around Christmas but gave up on him because I thought the character was rubbish (didn't help that every guide I saw was about building critical chance, which is the single dumbest source of damage in the game, in my opinion). I've been experimenting with variations on Trizzdog's build and so far it is very promising. Incidentally I frequently faced crit Gangplanks: one went as far as having 4 Avarice Blades (dumbass)!

[D-coy]

Spellvamp tanky Nunu... nuff' said gents.

(It owns.)

[Akranadas]

You can pretty much say the same for any caster with a short cool down move when you build two or more Hextech Revolvers.

[MagosMechanicus]

Dodge is additive as well, but has diminishing returns. Not worth getting over 40% (or 30%).

No, dodge stacks multiplicatively. It's how they implement the diminishing returns. I hadn't realised crit chance works differently because I rarely play damage characters.

[D-coy]

Alright Magos.

@ Akranadas

You could say that, but Nunu can have incredible healing from a WotA and a Revolver (or just a WotA). I can't think of any other caster right now, that can heal as much as him from only those 2 items. 800+ heals from Consume, 200+ heals each snowball and getting triple kills killing people with ult when you're at 100 HP and healing to 1000+.

Nunu is boss.

[konfeta]

Anyone watchin' the Vayne live preview? Looks incredibly fun, very Nidalee feel with all the jumping.

Kites like a boss, too.

[Akranadas]

I don't know why they keep releasing more assassins and mages, what the game needs is more tanks. Not Mages who can build HP items, but Tanks... like another Shen or Rammus.

[MagosMechanicus]

Yeah, Batwoman looks to be a seriously scary assassin. That game where she got mid control with Brolaf's early gank was just massive domination.
Better have some ranged stun ready for her when the patch hits.

[D-coy]

Her Silver arrows deal 8% true damage of the target's max HP at the max skill level. With maxed atk spd that's anyone dead in about 10 seconds...

Funfun. For Vayne... for the others, not so much.

[Black]

Man, I'm glad I quit this game a couple of months ago. I got fed up with them giving me new reasons every two weeks to be annoyed. You know, in addition to the people who play this game. I can't say I regret the decision. I'll probably start playing it again eventually, but I'm enjoying the free time I have to pursue more productive hobbies.

[Akranadas]

Yeah I know what you mean Black, every 2 weeks they seem to release a hero that looks blatantly annoying to play against. With Her Tumbles, and true damage, she's basically a ranged version of Irelia that you can't hit.

[n0z3k1ll3r]

Honestly the constant wave upon wave of hero releases is largely why I stopped playing. It's exactly what was wrong with DotA: constantly adding new Heroes and screwing the game balance. Much rather they'd spend their time adding some new maps or some such.

[Akranadas]

All I want is a new gameplay type really. Something like Conquest or Capture the Flag would be nice.

[n0z3k1ll3r]

Yeah or that. Something to add to gameplay without just being yet another hero.

[D-coy]

Shhhh... guys.... Riot is saving the graphical update and new map for luring people back to playing LoL once DotA 2 comes out.

[Akranadas]

I just don't understand why they can't make maps even remotely near as quick as they can pump out new champions, I mean they've managed to reskin the same map twice, but haven't released another one since Twisted Tree line. Even magma Chamber is looking to be more of the same... sigh.... Nexus destroying does get boring after the thousandith time. I guess thats what us no-competitive folk get.

[bman3k]

I saw the live preview her kiting ability seems a bit too strong, I know Taric isn't exactly a killing machine, but being able to kite to death from about half health while only having a bar yourself seems a bit silly. From my perspective Vayne seems a bit too strong, not sure on all her numbers but she seemed to have decent base health and just have too much harassing power, the guy didn't even play her that well.

I'm getting tired of constant new heroes too, I think the game is at the point where there are generally plenty of champions and play styles to choose from. I'd like to see a new map or gametype as well, or if we are stuck with new champs bi-weekly a new main tank OR Invoker from Dota .