Legendary: a League of Legends discussion

[titlams]

Played Kennen a lot last night in dominion, Defending with him is so easy and with his speed buff you can constantly force the other team to break over attacks to save there points.

[n0z3k1ll3r]

Revive is pretty handy on a few heroes (Pantheon and Twisted Fate are probably the two best candidates), but yeah I question it on Dominion. The respawn times are so short.

[DeafMute]

kennen easy u say?
Didnt know that ^^, that little bastard is the champ I hate fighting the most.

[[Vertigo]]

Dominion doesn't really give you enough IP.

[Misiok]

With the First Win of the Day it gives you about 200+, at least for me. If you win one game you get about 50 or 100, right? I don't remember. Anyway, I fathom that 2 wins (20 minutes at least, each game) give you about the same IP should you win one normal game? Meh, my logic.

[Akranadas]

That's due to how fast the game is over, Twisted Treeline is also like that. But you can make significantly more IP in an hour off of Dominion then you can off of SR.

[WhiteDeVile]

Indeed, sometimes a dominion game ends even in 10-15 minutes, so that's 50 IP about 2 times faster than you would gain the same on normal (considering that you gain 100 per around 30-40 minutes play).

[Akranadas]

Should help people "Power Level" to full ruin pages

[Kryopsis]

I made about 1000 IP yesterday, playing Dominion.

[WhiteDeVile]

Any advice on how to play Vayne ?
I just bought her recently, and she feels so extremely squishy
(I usually play LeBlanc so "squishiness" is nothing new for me, but still I am much, much better as LB, at least can manage to NOT die at all).

Most of the time, early game, a single ability cast by the enemy takes about 1/4 of my hp, I have to kite and dance like mad in order to just STAY ALIVE, not even speaking about killing someone.

Then midgame, sometimes, someone roams off alone, so that's a free kill for me, but during the teamfights, it's either:

I get focused and chased
I'm so over-cautious, that I do next to none damage, cause I'm "afraid" to come closer to a teamfight.

What the hell do I do ?
(also if you know a good "beginner" build for her, and/or a standard build, maybe something different than what is on mobafire, or at least different than a standard ad carry build, I'd be very glad).

[Infidelicious]

Rush an emblem of valor, fast boots and get a PD asap. Starks after that.

In my experience vayne rides the line and the only thing that keeps her alive is lifesteal and the ability to gtfo.

[Kryopsis]

Bloody hell, Wukong! I haven't been this happy about a champion in LoL ever since Trundle came out! Granted, I see the problem with the monkey king (no scaling on his low cooldown attack, CC only on the ultra etc) but he's such a blast to play! His Decoy resulted in some of my most memorable moments in LoL, in both Crystal Scar and Summoner's Rift. I've been playing Wukong for only a few days but I had more fun than with Garen, Xin Zhao or Talon (even though Garen and Talon are probably the better characters). I am going to buy him, I don't want LoL without Wukong anymore!

[Inskipp]

Any advice on how to play Vayne ?

Be aggressive.

You need to bully the enemy with your Q whenever you get the chance. Always pin the enemy against the wall with your E if the situation allows it. You need to be pressing the enemies balls to the wall until they're the ones afraid of you.

Of course you need the right lanemate to accommodate this playstyle. Aggressive support- picks work well here, such as Alistar or Taric. Janna will also work, as well as the healbot supports, such as Sona.

However if you don't have access to a support, at least make sure your lanemate has a stun, and let him initiate. If he doesn't have any cc, then just use him as a meatshield and hope for the best :L

Vayne can solo, but I wouldn't personally recommend it. Most casters outrange her, and thus can zone her out. She has better chances in solo-top, as her kit can allow you to keep most melees away. But even there, certain characters can give you trouble (notably the anti-carry bruisers, such as Irelia)

Also, a very important note here

Your ulti turns your tumble into a Shaco- blink

Not in the same way, but in the same purpose. A few examples:

- You can initiate/enter ganks unnoticed
- You can enter a teamfight unnoticed and get closer to your target (NEVER INITIATE WITH A CARRY BAD STUFF HAPPENS)
- You can potentially juke people
- etc.

Learn and memorize every situation where your ulti is adaptable. Don't use it too early, as when you use it, it will signal your opponents that you're going for the kill (as you should be)


Also, never use your E for damage. Use it for the utility it provides.

Her role in a teamfight doesn't differ much from other carries. Wait in the background until your team initiates. After one of your teammates make a move (for instance, amumu ult or an irelia jumping in the middle of the enemy team), you jump in and focus their V.I.P. Save your E for either keeping their bruisers away from you or for a possible stun.


As for builds, a standard carry build will infact work just fine. This build works if you're laning with a support (if not then get boots + 3 pots instead first, and then a doran)

Dorans blade
Boots (turn to zerks asap)
Another D-blade if you're not doing so well or need to buy something in a clutch. If you're farming well/fed, skip it.
BF- sword, which you turn into either a Bloodthirster (for sustain and more raw AD) or IE (for potentially better burst)
Zeal


You can switch it up from this point onward. Finish your PD if you want the extra stats, opt for more damage if you're doing well, or go for defensive items if you're having a hard time staying alive. It's pretty flexible at this point, depending upon the situation of course. Here's a few recommendations

Black Cleaver (AD + ASPD = yummy)
Banshees (spellshield)
Quicksilver (if you're focused with suppression)
Wit's end (if you need Mres and oompf)
Sword of the Divine (for Jax. Only Jax.)
Guardians Angel (makes you a less desirable target with that revive on)



Holy shit this post turned out long ._.

[roflmao]

Blood bathe + nunu + fast melee hero = WIN.

[Paladin]

I second "Be aggressive" with Vayne. You can't afford to not be, and it's hilarious how often you can turn a "Oh, she's not doing that much damage, I'll just stand and fight her" doofus into hamburger.

Also, remember that your E can pin enemies to their tower... It's amazing how many people run directly towards their tower when they're trying to escape you. Pin them and dive them and Q/flash your way to safety. Then taunt them in all chat.

[Akranadas]

Be aggressive should be the main thing any ranged champ should do. I cannot count the number of times ranged champs sit there auto-attacking minions when they should be harassing the other guy. -_-

[[Vertigo]]

Found this very relevant. Since I have been reading a lot of arguments on the new champion being shit/op before being released.

[Akranadas]

Tip for Dominion - Defend the points! I cannot tell you how many games I've ended up losing due to team mates spending all game running around chasing for kills

[Kryopsis]

The majority of the Dominion games I lost was because people insisting on capturing the two remaining enemy points by their base. Bottom lane is particularly guilty of that, for some reason. I figure people get bored of defending a single point and venture out in search of action... and let Evelynn or Rammus capture their point.

[WhiteDeVile]

Huge thanks for all the info about Vayne!
Turns out I found out on my own, some of the things written here, for example entering a gank with R+Q,
never using E for damage, just as pin/escape tool, etc.

Didn't knew about being able to stun against a turret, that's cool.
Also about the build, I heard that a fast zeal
(after doran + zerker greaves) makes it much easier to farm for first BF sword.
Thought's on that ? On the build generally.

Also, whenever I'm playing her it feels like, with Vayne being sort of a "chaser", her overall performance depends GREATLY on my team, as in, much more than in case of other ad carries.

[Inskipp]

Also about the build, I heard that a fast zeal
(after doran + zerker greaves) makes it much easier to farm for first BF sword.

I don't see logic of that. By the time you can afford a zeal, you will have amassed 1195 gold. this means you would only need 455 gold for a BF sword, which corresponds to 3-4 minion waves. This means you would only have to farm for another 2 minutes to achieve the required sum for a BF sword.


I don't see how skipping damage and rushing a zeal would improve your farming. It just means you're gonna be waiting another 10 minutes farming for damage

[Black]

The biggest trap I see people fall into while playing AD carries is buying a zeal before any damage items. Buying a BF Sword means you're doing well. Anything else is a compromise. An early zeal is not even a compromise.

[Paladin]

I agree with early zeal being a mistake on any carry except Vayne. I have a pretty positive kill and win ratio with Vayne and I almost always go for an early Zeal. I build my attack damage after I'm set up with attack speed and my Madred's. Silver Bolts + Madred's + Roll is incredible without any AD boosts. She's not really a normal carry anyway, she's a tankbuster and an assassin. She's unique in a lot of ways, doesn't really fit neatly into any of the usual categories.

Going attack speed first is what causes enemies to underestimate her and overcommit, because her damage seems weak when she first starts in on you, and then stacks up like a motherfucker as she pours on the silver bolts. Usually by the time they realize they've made a grave error, it's too late, because you've got her pursuit passive, your ult, and your roll, and you have exhaust and flash (This is the only valid summoner spell combo for her IMO... Well, cleanse can be helpful too...). Plus you're smart, so you'll be set up to spike them into something and pin them for the kill when they panic and flee.

My standard Vayne build is boots+pots start. Then dagger, gauntlet, Zeal.

If I'm feeling comfortable, Recurve Bow is next. If I'm feeling the heat a bit, Longsword and Cloth Armor. Then Recurve Bow. Then, depending on how much money I have when I come back next time, either I finish Zeal, or get a Vamp Scepter, or both. Then I finish Madred's, then I buy a BF Sword and build a Bloodthirster, and turn the Zeal into a Phantom Dancer.

After that she pretty much creams everyone, assuming you've been playing crazy aggressive and farming like a boss, which you should have been doing. I finish the build with Another Bloodthirster and Phantom Dancer, though most of the time I have to take a B. Veil instead of one of those, doesn't really matter what order you buy things in after that, you should already have the game in the bag.

Boots get turned into Zerker Greaves or Merc Treads, depending on what you feel you need more, and you do it whenever you feel like you need the jump from speed 1 to speed 2. Probably some time before you finish the core build, but not always, if you're not having trouble chasing people down (Although this probably means the other team is a bunch of total noobs).

This isn't a quick burst build designed to scare them into fleeing (At least not until you finish the core), it's actually deliberately designed to not scare them, and lull them into not running away so you can kill them easier. Works shockingly well, at least for me.

I have a cheaper, burstier build, but it's less strong overall towards the late game IMO. It's also crazily proc reliant, using Malady, Wit's End, Trinity Force, Madred's, and Phantom Dancer. It does a bunch of front loaded damage from the Sheen/Trinity Force proc, but slows down after your initial alpha burst. I prefer my standard build, but this one works too, particularly against a magic heavy enemy team.

[Black]

If you're going with that, a fast black cleaver is still probably the better option.

[[Vertigo]]

because her damage seems weak when she first starts in on you, and then stacks up like a motherfucker as she pours on the silver bolts.

Unless you know how Vayne works and don't let her stack up silver bolts on you. In which case you should get a BF sword since many of the late game items you need build off of it. Also a BF with Berserk Greaves will help you last hit in the lane better increasing you CS allowing you to purchase more BF swords.

[Paladin]

I've never had trouble stacking Silver Bolts on anyone. If they fade immediately the moment I hit them to avoid getting hit with the third shot, it either ends up with them hiding under their tower unable to get out because I'll be on them immediately, which means I get all the farms and zone them out, or with me killing their partner who comes to their aid (Or sending him back to B).

If they stand and fight I'm almost certain to get one and fade out before I die.

I find the build is just win/win, at least for my playstyle, and excepting certain outlier cases. I build explicitly for early game strength in my runes and masteries, and I usually draw first blood or at least get a few early kills which feeds me moneys better than last hitting creeps would anyway.

[n0z3k1ll3r]

Didn't knew about being able to stun against a turret, that's cool.

Fun Fact: The tower doesn't need to be alive to do this. Dead tower rubble works just as well.

[Paladin]

Fun Fact: The tower doesn't need to be alive to do this. Dead tower rubble works just as well.

Yup. Though they're less likely to flee directly at it and make it easy for you.

[WhiteDeVile]

Tried your build Paladin, it's quite cool, gives much firepower early to mid game, not due to attack damage, but rather the speed of attack - which leades to much more true damage shots, sometimes even tanks fear me, also nice survivability due to early life leech.

Vayne is indeed much different than any other carry, she doesn't have to early raise her attack damage that much due to silver bolts - she comes hitting hard "out of the box" compared to other carries, but:
she's so squishy, that she either needs to be ultra agressive and efficient in harrassing+farm, or manage to get life leech fast, in order to survive.

[Paladin]

I'm glad you like it.

I shift stuff in that build around depending on circumstance, and if I'm really struggling with cash I'll go with the cheaper "Stack all the procs!" build, but it usually works unless you end up against one of your kryptonite characters (Urgot, for instance, will make you cry all day long and there's very little you can do about it).

[Note: This is in the laning phase. After the laning phase you just have to ambush him. If you start out at close range and you've got a decent chunk of items, you'll have him for lunch. It's just that if you start off laning against him, getting those items is going to be a pain.]

Early lifesteal and attack speed would be suicidal idiocy on most champions, but it works on Vayne.

And yes, tanks fear Vayne. I usually go out of my way to pick on the tankier target because it can really foul up a lot of teams' strategies to have their tank melt instantly. Cho'Gath and Vlad fear Vayne like nothing else. Which is fun because they're usually "no worries herp derp, I'm immortal!" characters. In a game that has a Vlad in it I will hunt him across the entire map after the laning phase and shut him down for the entire game just to make sure he can't get his steamroll on.

[bman3k]

I don't see how life steal would work very well if you are just stacking attack speed and relying on silver bolts, while you are shooting faster overall DPS from physical damage (where life steal comes from) is far lower and I don't think it'd be high enough to do anything other than sustain you in lane.

[roflmao]

Dominion is literally figuratively the best thing to ever happen to the game. Loving it.

Please share more Dominion-specific builds so I can omnomnom!

[WhiteDeVile]

bman3k@

I think life steal works with silver bolts, it's supposed to work with all physical damage you deal, but I'm not sure.

Also, I meant early life steal, a scythe perhaps, only in order to prolong your stay in a lane, nothing more, at least early game.

Cause in order to avoid death, Vayne has Q, W, aaand - shooting the f*ck outta 'em.
As Vayne, during early game, aggression is defense.

Also Kennen is my friggin nightmare, but only early game,
when I get myself a trinity force or infinity he's the one getting hammered, but before that,
if I'm on a lane with him during early game, somehow it's really hard to not get pushed, harrased, pressed to tower all the time.

He's more durable, and his diving ability is annoying, he can dive even early, just like me, but he risks less,
I often need to flash after a dive+kill in order to not die, he doesn't, just turns into a ball and zooms away.

I managed once to acquire a slight advantage over Kennen, by buying a negatron cloak early, but their team rooster was such, that it only helped against Kennen, and nothing else.

Urgot was supposed to be a "counter", but I managed to handle him many times, solo up, mid, bot, just had to use tumble in a different way (rather to avoid, than do damage).

Oh and, in case of Dominion, it's really cool, but somehow compared to normal games, random people play with even LESS teamwork than ever.
Usually it's - HURR DURR I GO ROAM SOMEWHERE AND TRY TO SCORE A KILL - very often it's total chaos,
no one is defending the towers, everyone just runs around like a mad mofo,
not even in PAIRS, everyone runs alone, racing who will get a kill, often dying being ganked from the bush.

And I get such teams 3 out of 5 times, go figure how I feel about dominion (even though the concept is awesome).

[Misiok]

Trying to go pure AP Soraka on Dominion is hilarious. You outright murder squishies and pull a decent dent on tanks. You shouldn't really 1v1, but you might get lucky a few times. In anyway, playing Soraka on Dominion makes me feel trollish and I'm loving it.

[Brenil]

Is it just me or does Dominion get really old, really fast?

I've gone from somewhat liking it to rather loathing it. Too fast paced and too focused on capping. It all just gets very dull after a few dozen games.

[Akranadas]

It's not for everyone. But yeah, capping is the point of the game Brenil.

[Kryopsis]

Is it just me or does Dominion get really old, really fast?

I like Dominion less than Summoner's Rift but I do like the fast pacing and objective-driven gameplay. It does not get old to me just like Summoner's Rift never got old or, to use another analogy, like I can still play 2fort 12 years later.

[bman3k]

@WhiteDeVile I'm pretty sure life steal doesn't proc on silver bolts since it does true damage.

I'm also a bit tired of dominion, some champions are just too strong on it (Jax, Rammus etc) and game gets dull.

[[Vertigo]]

I usually draw first blood or at least get a few early kills which feeds me moneys better than last hitting creeps would anyway.

I find many of games don't go as planed so the only thing I can count on in the lane phase is CS. Really AS works on Vayne but as a carry I would make that a late game objective since a zeal doesn't mean as much as a BF sword in the first 10-15 minutes.

[Inskipp]

I find many of games don't go as planed so the only thing I can count on in the lane phase is CS. Really AS works on Vayne but as a carry I would make that a late game objective since a zeal doesn't mean as much as a BF sword in the first 10-15 minutes.

I agree, it's better to plan your build upon the farm you are gaining, not kills. Farm never backfires

Also, any competent opponent will not let you stack silver bolts, as they will shut you down with CC/exhaust and stop you from attacking that way. Her Q is much more reliable in the sense of dealing burst damage.

I think life steal works with silver bolts, it's supposed to work with all physical damage you deal, but I'm not sure.

Silver Bolts proc deals true damage, which doesnt affect your lifesteal.

Also, I meant early life steal, a scythe perhaps, only in order to prolong your stay in a lane, nothing more, at least early game.

Auto-attack lifesteal is probably the most shitty way to sustain yourself in early game, especially with Vayne. You only gain 8hp per shot at best. I don't see how you can heal up from, say, 200hp, by standing right next to the enemy zone and pushing your lane deeper into your enemies zone.

HP pots and healer- supports are your buddies here.

when I get myself a trinity force

Bad item on Vayne

Too expensive with very little gain. You'd better off with building that Zeal into a PD and then buying more AD

[Akranadas]

I'm also a bit tired of dominion, some champions are just too strong on it (Jax, Rammus etc) and game gets dull.

Jax is so easy to counter, simply get your carry/dps to build Sword of the Divine. It's the Anti-Jax weapon.

[roflmao]

My guess is that they'll be refining the game mode as time passes by and by observing community reactions. I agree that from the get-go it is clear that Dominion doesn't have the level of depth that the normal mode does, but I think it is a bit too early to make snap judgements.

It's going to take a little while for strategies to come up and for everyone to get used to the mode.

I guess the reason I like it is because of its shorter length. These days I barely have 45 minutes alone where I don't get some sort of interruption that could completely screw up a sustained game of LoL (fall 2 levels behind and you're screwed), but I guess time issues has no bearing on the actual quality of the two modes and is only related to me, but still .

[Inskipp]

I believe the lack of depth is thanks to the complete lack of jungle. It pretty much removes a whole layer out of the gameplay.

But I don't think anyone plays Dominion for the depth

[Deionarra]

I do feel that Dominion is a bit shallow compared to the standard games type but I can also see that part of that is due to people not playing it with much strategy yet. Most people are running around too randomly and too aggressively which I feel is contributing a bit to some of the 'imbalance' of characters like Akali, who thrive at just running about killing disorganized people.

So far my most dominating (no pun intended) victories have been in games where I tried focusing more on pushing with the minion waves between the bottom points while a strong defensive champion went top with 3 fighter types to take and hold the windmill. My fastest win has been as Sivir with promote, I neutralized the enemy teams bottom point with a minion wave at about the same time as the first fight at the windmill was over.

People are defiantly underestimating how effective pushing can be in Dominion and I've been flamed and que dodged for taking Promote.

[bman3k]

@Akranadas

Even with SotD very few carries can 1v1 a Jax between, needing anymore than 1 person puts other points at a disadvantage.

[typhoonoftempest]

tis why for Jax you need an anti-carry, or a very good assassin.

[[Vertigo]]

Cause in order to avoid death, Vayne has Q, W, aaand - shooting the f*ck outta 'em.
As Vayne, during early game, aggression is defense.

A very dangerous line to be toeing. Against idiots who didn't bring any CC to the lane which you can out range this wouldn't be a bad idea. Though eventually you are going to run across a Bitzcrank Graren lane combo and you cannot make a single fuck up or you wont get out alive. Any CC with a DPS carry is going to give you trouble. Taric and Ash is pretty brutal lane combo to be up against. This is why I recommend not getting a zeal first since your silver bolts are not going to proc that much faster while a BF sword builds into a bloodthirster which would help your lane sustainability.

[Akranadas]

Anyone got an tips for Riven?

Been trying her out the last couple of games, while I like the combo system I find her someone lacking in damage early on.

My Current build is Either Ninja Boots for heavy auto-attack team or Merc Treads, Wriggles as standard to help me farm a lane better, and then I don't know.

[Inskipp]

She's a good gank jungler, that's pretty much the most reliable thing I can tell you about her. Have had very poor solo- top experiences with her.

Most people seem to fair better when they opt for damage first (bloodthirster etc) and getting something tanky later on.

[[Vertigo]]

Don't play Riven. I've never been in a game where I lost to a team that picked Riven. Even the guides from Solomid are not sure how to play her properly.

edit for solomid guide.

http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=6727