Legendary: a League of Legends discussion

[bman3k]

How does Taric shut down Vayne of all people, especially if she has a Malphite backing her. I know his stun can be a pain, but it's hardly efficient for damage compared to what Vayne and Malphite have.

[D-coy]

So Taric 1v2'd Malphite and Vayne?

That's odd. You must had a bad game.

[[Vertigo]]

Actually, it was Eve and Taric in the beginning. Eve pretty much shut Paladin down every time we would push since Taric would jump onto him.

[D-coy]

Uhm, get vision wards? With those you can shit on Eve all day.

As I said, since pushing against Taric is near impossible, I think your main problem was the lack of a jungler. He'd have handled Taric pretty well.

Still, nice job pulling through.

[Trizzdog]

Alright, now that the Canucks have had a sweet game, I'm sobering up, and I have time to post:

First off. D-coy, nobody respects your advice, because nobody appreciates your attitude, especially your overt supercilious tone in your posts. This is why most people here oppose you, and seem to gang up on you in defense.

Secondly, there are multiple ways to build Vayne. The build of choice depends on the player, but generally you want to have a Ying/Yang attitude towards your build. That is, don't completely ignore either AD, or AS. Generally I like to go AD at the start, then lay on the AS as you move into mid/late game.

Thirdly, regardless of what build Paladin chose, he was going to get shat on. Both Vertigo and Paladin are relatively new to the game. Vertigo was trying out Malphite for the first(ish?) time. Eve and Taric in a lane is mean. Taric razzle dazzles you into a fabulous stun, Eve kicks you in the face so you stay stunned, they light you on fire / exhaust you, and then proceed to kick your shit in if you're still alive. This is a very vicious combo against someone like Vayne, since she is ever so soft, and can't exactly harass or escape people who can disappear and have infinite heals/stuns. Malphite can't do much to stop this either, and is mostly ignorable. A sight ward would have helped in theory, but they couldn't afford one in their situation, and it wouldn't have helped by the point they could get one. I should have had let Paladin mid after I pooped on fail Zin... but... those sweet farms...

Anyways, our 2 pubs were pretty rubbish, and got their shit kicked in as well, by Zilean/Twitch teaming up for ultimate trollin'. Good thing I was able to carry the entire team by having Zin fuck up in mid, grabbing an early Rylai's scepter, snatching up Blue Buff constantly, and taking an oracle to go stealthy bitch hunting.

I'm not going to go into details on how to play Swain, because I've only played him about 6 or 7 times now, and I feel I need to try a few more tricks before I can write up a pseudo-guide post. I could give you specific advice if you want, since I do feel I got a good grasp of the character in general.

[D-coy]

Trizz, thanks for taking the time to give me a constructive answer.

I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone, it is clearly not my intention unless others start to gang up on me. I bite back.

I might be mad, because seemingly less experienced players argue with me on points I know I'm right about. I played this game a lot, I think I can trust my experience. When people question it, I get uneasy.

I got mad because Brenil chipped in on a discussion which in my view was between Paladin and I. And I think Paladin is mature and intelligent enough to handle my critisism, troll me, or do whatever he wants without help from someone who had seemingly nothing constructive to say.

That said, yes, physical carries get AD and AS. Sorry if I implied I'd only get one or the other. However, getting AD first, as Trizz said, is generally more effective because of what I pointed out (better kiting, better last hitting, more burst).

About that lane, yea, it's hard. But you got to remember that neither Eve nor Taric has a lot of damage, especially early on. Lay on the hurt as much as you can. Executioner's calling counters those dang heals nicely.

Sorry if I hurt anyone, not everyone likes my style. What can I say, I'm an asocial freak... or something. And I'm not happy about it.

Here's a cookie for fun:

http://giantfunny.com/ultimate_bravery.php

Refresh to get new ones. Bonus ones at the bottom. Not my work.

[Paladin]

Honestly Eve stealth wasn't even the problem, because she wasn't really stealthing much at the beginning. But she stayed behind Taric at all times, like RIGHT behind him, and any time I got within attack range of Taric, I'd be stunned, and they would both hit me. There's no real way to deal with that. I could have tried to build damage, but most AD items are slow builds that have quite expensive components (One BF Sword costs half again as much as a Zeal for instance) so it would have been kind of tricky. Ultimately there was just no way to harass them because I could hit Eve without the both of them getting the jump on me and starting to hit first, and Malphite can't really help much, certainly not in the early game when he has no damage.

I really should have switched lanes.

I did quite well (For me) tonight, in my opinion. More wins than losses, and a couple "Made them cry and they surrendered at 20" games. All positive K/D ratios, and I was generally number 1 or 2 on our team in kills. Vayne is a good character for me so far. I have a better record with her than most anyone else I've tried.

[D-coy]

I see.

[Inskipp]

Honestly Eve stealth wasn't even the problem, because she wasn't really stealthing much at the beginning. But she stayed behind Taric at all times, like RIGHT behind him, and any time I got within attack range of Taric, I'd be stunned, and they would both hit me. There's no real way to deal with that. I could have tried to build damage, but most AD items are slow builds that have quite expensive components (One BF Sword costs half again as much as a Zeal for instance) so it would have been kind of tricky. Ultimately there was just no way to harass them because I could hit Eve without the both of them getting the jump on me and starting to hit first, and Malphite can't really help much, certainly not in the early game when he has no damage.

That's why you don't put a carry and a tank (Alistar being an exception) in a duo-lane. Both of those characters require tons of farm, and can't really afford to share their gold. Otherwise you need to split the gold, and thus the farm you reap will be lacking for your needs. Not to mention the fact that your champs had next to zero synergy together, while your opponents had some synergy from the very start. (and from what I've read they abused it to a great extent)

If you're gonna duo-lane with a carry, get yourself a support champion to babysit you (Janna, Soraka etc.). Much more pleasant, and makes it easier to shrug off harassment :P

[GoLambo]

If you aren't spamming attack speed/crit on Vayne you're literally doing it wrong. Her real power lies in her W and its true damage, and because it needs 3 hits to proc and its super powerful, well, you want it to do that as often as possible. The way you make up for lack of "damage" is by having extremely high crit chance and attack speed, which when you mathhammer it out makes Vayne do MORE dps with a phantom dancer than any other straight damage item for cost, AND has more general utility (speed boost). The extra attack speed means more general damage, and boosts your % chance for crit (which is like having a free damage item). Only very late game should you worry about picking up damage. Phantom Dancer plus Straks by midgame with decent farm will get you much further than trying to build damage, let you lifesteal tank, and you can stand around melting tanks with huge amounts of armor because her W does not give shit and a half about it.

[bman3k]

AS is definitely good on Vayne, but early game when you are squishy and/or it's in the hit-trading phase you don't get to take full advantage of a high attack speed.

[Paladin]

I've had it work out far more often than it fails. With support I can just stay on them instead of trading hits, and generally chase them for an early kill, which burst and hit trading rarely accomplishes in my experience. As long as I time it right (When they don't have many minions to support them, since I'm made of paper and all) it works out pretty well, particularly if I've lulled them into a false sense of security with a little hit trading beforehand, and haven't revealed my roll damage (Or roll + silver bolts if I'm level 2) yet.

It's essentially a troll build, because it makes it seem like I have weak damage until I commit.

Nothing's as awesome as sitting by the tower, waiting for minions to spawn to give the other team time to hide in the nearby bushes, and then storming in and killing them both before minions even arrive. And this build allows that, since I start with boots and 3 potions, and my runes are armor pen heavy. Which means I hit hard and can't be outrun, and I can pop a potion as I go in and the regen boost gives me the edge.

If I manage a kill on one or both of them, I'll be a level up on them by the time they get back, which means I can aggressively deny them access to minion farming (And surprisingly often, zone them out of xp gains even), which means I hit 6 before them, and get an almost guaranteed additional kill. And at that point I'll be quite nicely ahead of the curve on money and I can start crapping on people wherever needed.

[Paladin]

So this was one of my games tonight. I know I have a bunch of deaths, but I'm just really aggro when I'm chasing someone and I don't really mind dying as long as I get a kill or two in the process.

[D-coy]

Look like glass cannons got owned.

Must've been a close game, nice!

[[Vertigo]]

Singed and Blitzcrank is a hilarious lane. Rocket fist, knock up, whip and POISON EVERYWHERE! Don't forget the goo. Brenil had to get an oracle that game because he kept getting Eve while she was stealth.

[Brenil]

Correction, I only bought Oracle when I had all my items and therefore became Jesuscrank. I managed to yank Evelynn while stealthed 3-4 times without the need of Oracle. PUNCH.

[bman3k]

Woot! Best game I had in a while (even if it was full of trolls). Ryze is like the only mage that can be tanky DPS, I love how Frozen Heart and Bashee's give him damage.

I was actually quite worried this match, both teams kept wandering off on their own get repeatedly getting ganked (mostly by their Sion, who was cutting us apart).

[D-coy]

Ryze is OP. Still.

[Akranadas]

I've decided to leave Summoners Rift, and headed down to the Twisted Tree line, and I must say; the change is better for the time being.

[Trizzdog]

I decided to solo queue because I was alone and bored.

NEVER AGAIN.

Not because pubs are bad, but because they don't have even a basic grasp of team fighting and late game tactics. We shat on their entire team for most of the game, but as soon as we all went past lvl 15, my team went pants-on-head retarded and got rolled.

[D-coy]

Lolcaps.

[Master Chief]

Tried Kog Maw for the first time since he was free last night and I am definitely going to buy him next, he is so much fun. Just spizzing all over people, I even got some guy in their own fountain. Also I was playing with 3 friends, so the one guy on our team not in the Skype call got super pissed because he couldn't killsteal cuz I yanked all the kills first. Definitely like the Kog, now I just need to save up some money for Buttermaw.

[Leonite7]

Hey guys I am interested in starting to play online and would like some advice on what champions are good picks, things to watch out for, and those sort of things. I have played about 100 (80/13/10) games against beginner bots and have managed to do fairly well in most matches (managed to get 51 kills in one game a while ago). I prefer playing as characters that are good at dealing damage but have a bit of survivability (e.g Garen) and don't really like support chars. Any and all advice/recommendations are greatly appreciated.

[Someguy]

Hey guys I am interested in starting to play online and would like some advice on what champions are good picks, things to watch out for, and those sort of things.

Did you buy any heroes or are you running with the weekly free heroes?

Also I've been told this as well, but save your IP and wait until level 20. That way you can use your IP to purchase Tier 3 runes.

[Paladin]

Try the intermediate bots, and keep in mind that playing against actual players is harder than that even. But if you're used to beginner bots, the intermediate bots will make you cry.

[MagosMechanicus]

Looks like after Yorick we're getting the first female tank (well, a "strong tanky initator", which sounds like a Jarvan IV equivalent): Leona, the Radiant Dawn. Then it's time for Skarner, a giant crystal scorpion who can impale people on his tail and briefly carry them around. Kind of disappointed that Yorick probably isn't going to work like Undying from DotA, though. I was as much of an aura addict in DotA as I am in LoL, and liked Undying a lot because his enormous zombie hordes let me take full advantage of them (in addition to his own health percentage damage aura). Yorick does look like fun though. Decent harass abilities, and the lifesteal ghost sounds like a way to regenerate health off of minion waves à la Irelia or Swain. Should make for a strong laner.

[D-coy]

Thanks Magos!

Skarner = Spiritbreaker/Rampage?

If yes, I'm psyched already.

And intermediate bots are better than some players. Even the not totally new ones.

[bman3k]

I'm satisfied with the amount of champions they have now, I think there's a great variety and would like them to focus on tweaking existing champs and addings new features like a new map or being able to change the size of the minimap.

[D-coy]

You can zoom in (on the minimap), by hovering over it with your cursor and using your scroll wheel. I'm fairly sure there are keyboard hotkeys for it as well.

As far as we know, champ creating teams and teams responsible for other content are seperate groups, so wishing for less new champs in favour of new, other kind of content might be met with dissapointment.

Just keep 'em coming I say.

[Jopax]

Well they can pause making new champs so that they can fix and tweak existing ones, also Yorrick and that scorpion thing sound awesome, but i am greatly saddened by the lack of mention of the FREAKING MONKEY KING!

[Akranadas]

Good, the Monkey King sounds stupid.

[Trizzdog]

So I found today's Penny Arcade comic disturbingly accurate.

[Inskipp]

Me too

[D-coy]

Me three.

F2P my ass.

People complain that HoN costs $30, when LoL can cost more than 1000$.

[Jopax]

Playing as Gangplank while listening to Alestorm, fuckin' boss.

[bman3k]

I have nearly 300 games played and I've yet to spend anything other than my time on LoL . I got some free RP from the server outages and referrals, but I don't know what to spend it on.

[Inskipp]

skinskinskinskinskinskinskinskins and more skins

[D-coy]

I have nearly 300 games played and I've yet to spend anything other than my time on LoL . I got some free RP from the server outages and referrals, but I don't know what to spend it on.

I was like that when I had that many games, too.

It doesn't feel like you should get stuff faster than you do just by grinding IP until you get to around 500 wins. That's when it started for me.

Then again, I kinda have a 'gotta catch 'em all ' syndrome. (And I want to own all the champs, so I know how they work. And that leaves more IP for runes, too.)

[bman3k]

Actually make that nearly 600 games XD, I forgot to count losses. I make it a point to try all the champs at least once during free weeks and I've bought less than a dozen. I don't really care for skins, none seem to look epic enough for me to want to spend my RP on. Currently I'm pondering whether to buy a new rune page as 6300 IP is quite steep.

[Caesar]

Red Baron Corki, Corporate Mundo, Chinese New Year Kog'Maw, Easter Teemo, Hot-Rod Blitz--definitely worth it.

[Brenil]

You can't buy Easter Teemo anymore, if I recall correctly. Sucks to be anyone that doesn't have it. He's such an adorable psychopath.

So I found today's Penny Arcade comic disturbingly accurate.

Brenil whistles innocently as he strolls off.

[D-coy]

Hippity hoppity Teemo is still available. ^^

[Jopax]

The ones that i want most is the Commando set of the Demacia dudes, the gentlemen set (Cho and Graggy) and the Galactic brothers, also pumpkinhead Fiddles.

[Paladin]

Pink Taric!

Also Barbarian Sion.

[Master Chief]

Everyone knows Butterfly Kog Maw beats Fireworks Kog Maw any day. Also Hillbilly Gragas rules.

[D-coy]

I'd like Huntress Sivir.

Oh wait, Riot is a jerk and only put it in an overpriced newbie bundle for ~4000 RP. Bull.

[Trizzdog]

I wish there were more legendary skins, especially ones with Corporate Mundo and Gentleman Cho'gath quality (and not Magnificent Twisted Fate...).

Corporate Mundo Soundbites

[Brenil]

Hippity hoppity Teemo is still available. ^^

That's unusual. The holiday skins typically are limited addition, much like my Kitty Kat Katarina and Pumpkinhead Fiddlesticks. Even though I don't play Teemo very often, the skin is so damnably cute, I couldn't pass it up and the sight of his little easter egg basket bouncing off his tushy makes me squeal like a little girl in delight.

... don't judge me.

[D-coy]

Attack speed Vayne owns. *tips hat*

Lesson learned.

[Brenil]

So Yorick is a bro. I love him and his shambling fatness of awesome. Besides, I get to thwack people with a shovel while hanging with ghouls.

I've seemingly found a niche jungle build for him that works reasonably well. Despite my first thoughts, Yorick isn't a great jungler, but he isn't a bad one either. The ability to do jungle gives him quite a bit of versatility that most champions seem to lack.

P.S.

Riot killed Evelynn and changed Gangplank again.