Suggestion Box, Mk. III - The Darker Crusade of Retribution

[Croaxleigh]

With Retribution released in some territories and releasing soon in the rest of the world, it's time for a new suggestion box. Same rules as always... here's a recap for those who might have forgotten them.

How does this work?

If you have a suggestion for DoW 2, post here. The better your post, i.e. the more legible and thought out it is the higher the chance that someone actually reads it and does something about it.

What should I put in here?

Any suggestion that you feel would improve DoW2! Gameplay, graphics, features, you name it.

What can't I put in here?

Rants don't belong in here. Insults don't belong in here. And since this is a suggestion box, discussions don't belong in here either. Once again, do not discuss other people's suggestions please.

As always, there's no guarantee that the Relic devs will look at the suggestions or implement them into future patches/expansions. They certainly seem to keep an eye on the various online communities, however, and several popular suggestions have been implemented either in patches or in expansions. This thread will serve as an easy reference to any Relic devs that happen to peek in.

[nathaniak]

I have an idea for some DLC for the Last Stand.

Essentially, you're defending against a tyranid swarm. The map is easily defensible, but there are loads of enemies. I mean loads. And mostly termagaunts and hormogaunts. 'Fluffy' tyranid swarm, with larger organisms few and far between (kind of like at the start of the last mission of DOWII vanilla, with the waves of 'nids, but more advanced). Gameplay is like TLS. Each wave has more gaunts then the last. Every 4 or 5 waves, a squad of warriors. Carnifexes, hive guard and zoanthropes in later waves. Also, later, ravernors appear behind the optimal defensive position by burrowing up from tunnels(hopefully behind you, random allocation to precisely which point they can appear from)(not all in one wave!). Lictors and genestealers can appear from oppsite side of defences to main swarm.

Maybe you have points like in Retribution campaign that can build units? Still hero-focussed, built units must not clash with summoned units in terms of pop, ect. Not supposed to be just harder like anvil of khorne, but a different game style. DOWII does not promote termagaunt/hormogaunt spam, but if implemented well, this could be really fun. Swarmlord or hive tyrant appears on last wave

[XRuinX]

For Multiplayer:
Ability to increase the pop cap, and if possible, the pop cap of each individual unit as well.

[BigSteve]

Random mission generator, accessible before the last mission. There needs to be a method to get squads to 10 and the inventory full without mods. Also I feel the SP experience would benefit from each character being able to earn 2 more skill points (for V.Hard anyway), as theres awesome synergy potential from 12 point builds.

[General Stukov]

Last Stand having more heroes... I understand its pretty complicated to be able to make those heroes work in last stand as is but what about the 3 main heroes for every race? I mean it WOULD add a bit of spice to Last Stand and make for more dynamic games. Also I don't like the "Get the epic items but not the soldiers" missions... specially not knowing what's coming up.. I will say it certainly doesn't feel like DoW2... more like DoW1.5 there's the building aspect which I hated in the first game well at least for singleplayer...

[ricolikesrice]

my major suggestion for DOW2 - expansion 3 or DOW3:

Play. Create. Share!

There are tons of creative gamers around, give us some easy to use tools to make our own missions and CAMPAIGNs that we can play with out friends and we ll make your game more than famous. It doesnt have to be full blown modtools with which you can turn DOW2(or3) into a Flightsim ... but an easy to use SINGLE-PLAYER mission & campaign editor would be awesome.

Neverwinter Nights, Bethesda Games, Little Big Planet 1&2, Starcraft 1&2, MINECRAFT .... isnt there more than enough proof yet that players really love games that have their replay value extended by infinity and that those games can be very successfull ?

i dont even play minecraft much but seeing its smashing success while many of the dozens of overhyped corridor shooters horribly fail gives me a really warm feeling and hope that some day the devs (or more importantly : PUBLISHERs) will realize that its sometimes much more profitable to service a niche audience, than putting out the 128th game of popular genre XY and then learning what the term "oversaturated market" means the hard way

[puenboy]

Historical battles

examples:
The War for Armageddon (you are forced to play IG as Yarrick)
The Second War for Armageddon (you are forced to play IG with Yarrick)
Defense of Macragge (you are forced to play SM with Invictus)
Black Crusade (you are to play SM or IG led by whoever was leading the defense against that crusade)
The Drop Site Massacre (the models will be pre heresy marines, using Loken and other few in number but high quality heroes to defend, end boss is Lucius, then second mission you will play as Eidolon or Angron)
The assault on Prospero (you play as Space Wolves attacking or Thousand Sons defending the place until a countdown timer ends)
The assault on Pavonis (an event from the ultramarines series, you play as the IG commander and defend against the Tau until countdown timer ends, second mission you
play as Uriel Ventris at the Tau compound.

[Ra owa]

Make army painter useable while searching for a game in multiplayer

[Octopus Rex]

Have mouse pointers visible for all players on your team during the load screen so you can discuss battle tactics over voice-chat while looking at the map. (Or something like that)

[General Kong]

Introduce the customisation button as was shown in the fake screenshots, so we can customise units differantly

[Bagetta]

Hi.

The Ork Mekboys new weapon, awarded from an acheivement after the release of the DLC has in my opinion bad features.

While the weapon probably has a certain situation where it works perfectly, it's such a pain to use in "normal" situations that players choose to not use it at all.

Weapons features: 50% chance to teleport away an enemy squad to a random position when striking them, 10%(unsure of this %) to teleport yourself away to a random position when striking.

The problems:
1. When you are in melee combat with a unit you want to be able to hit it. This is problem is biggest when you face a ranged squad. Due to the Mekboys fast attack speed squads are teleported away almost instantly, and then the mekboy is forced to run through fire to re-enter close combat. This type of gameplay is extremely annoying.
2. The mekboy does NOT automaticaly attack the nearest enemy squad when the enemy squad he was in combat in or himself is teleported away. This results in the mekboy chasing the squad instead of attacking the nearest one.
3. If this weapon is too annoying for a player to use and the player decides not to use it, it only leaves a single close combat weapon left for the player to use. This restricts the mekboys variability.

Suggestion:
Instead of making enemies teleport away, attacks from this weapon causes the mekboy to teleport TO a nearby enemy and instantly attacking it. This would not be overpowered since ranged attackers attacking the mekboy suffer and gain equally from this and the % of this effect accuring could be 25% for example.

Thank you for your time reading this!

[Makenshi]

Listening Posts. I'll never give up.

[Hellcobra84]

Historical battles

examples:
The War for Armageddon (you are forced to play IG as Yarrick)
The Second War for Armageddon (you are forced to play IG with Yarrick)
Defense of Macragge (you are forced to play SM with Invictus)
Black Crusade (you are to play SM or IG led by whoever was leading the defense against that crusade)
The Drop Site Massacre (the models will be pre heresy marines, using Loken and other few in number but high quality heroes to defend, end boss is Lucius, then second mission you will play as Eidolon or Angron)
The assault on Prospero (you play as Space Wolves attacking or Thousand Sons defending the place until a countdown timer ends)
The assault on Pavonis (an event from the ultramarines series, you play as the IG commander and defend against the Tau until countdown timer ends, second mission you
play as Uriel Ventris at the Tau compound

+1 , more single player mission

[Chipmunk]

If there were a ping notification that occurs with a sound (differing to the attack and defend ping sound) on the mini-map for units coming under attack, then it would be very useful as I often don't notice when those units who I am not paying attention at the time are coming under attack (especially when my main army is in combat and my attention is on that, rather than them) despite the voice notification those units give to warn you.

[mocaorca]

I was watching a game in observer mode the other day and noticed it would be nice if I could see the cooldowns of squad abilities when I select a squad. Same applies for replays as well.

[Lampshade111]

I would really love to see an easier to use editor with a preview function. Just so I could mess around with certain campaign units (Kyras for example) in the game.

[CommissarRezail]

BIG IDEA, change Over charge hot shot las gun name to this :

Storm Guns

Elite rifles

Emperor's light

Dancer (because the beam look like they dance on the targets)

Pew pew pew

Sniper kits

Imperial special's

Just change it from over charge hot shot las guns, its clumsy ridiculous s insanely stupid... Its a mouth full tbh, just a mouth full. Also formation keys for the love of the Emperor, formation keys will help with ig... Just two of them tight two line formation and tight skinny one line formation.

[Shrapnel]

I'd second some new heroes for The Last Stand in the form of a patch or much more likely as DLC (free or paid i'd be more than happy to pay for extra heroes if the price was reasonable).

Suggestions for some possible heroes and abilities:

IG - Lord Commissar: Inspire Terror(suppress enemies and/or reduce enemy damage), Inspire Courage(supprseeion immunity for commissar and nearby allies), Charge(charge to targeted location), Hold the Line(increase damage of commissar and nearby allies), Clear out(knockback enemies in small radius), Basilisk Strike(off map artillary strike much like the Orbital Bombardment or Roks abilities)

Tyranid - Lictor: Flesh Hooks(pull enemy unit towards the lictor), Leap(jumps to targeted location), Stalk(essentially infiltrate)

SM - Librarian: Smite(single target psychic attack), Force Barrier(projects a barrier in front of the Librarian knocking back all units)

Chaos - Aspiring Champion: Blood for the Blood God(temporary but significant damage increase for the Aspiring Champion)

Eldar - Warp Spider Exarch: Teleport(Teleport to targeted location), anti-grav grenade(throws anti grav grenade at targeted location), Heavy Gauge Filament(temporary damage increase and knockback from Warp Spider Exarch's ranged attacks), Warp Spider Brood(spawn a warp spider minion squad)

Orks - Warboss: Stomp(damage and stun nearby enemies), Call Da Boyz(spawn a slugga or shoota minion squad)


Anyway just some thoughts, though it would be nice to see some extra heroes in The Last Stand to give it some more variety.

[Ghostlight]

Hello, created an account here to just throw some suggestions in.

Last Stand:

• All Heroes available for play.
  More maps. Even if they're slight variations: Building placement, cover placement, theme, whichever, just mix it up! Could add a little story/reason for the map, too.

Multiplayer Online Battle Arena (MOBA) Mode: Think DOTA, League of Legends, etc.

I think this game would greatly benefit from a DOTA-esque mod; it's competitive and offers a lot of replay value. We already have enough Heroes in the game to make it work, but more made out of more basic units would be cool, too. Could be released as a series of 3v3, 5v5, etc. maps.

I, for one, would pay for an expansion of it's own just to play this game mode. I could see this being the mod (player or Relic made) that assures players a thriving online community.

Quick refresher on how many MOBA's work:

2-3+ lanes linking two opposing bases. Inner main base is protected by towers (Could be powerful turrets?) lining the base/lanes. Once the base is destroyed, the game is over.
Note: Towers will normally attack minions first. However, if your hero attacks an enemy hero near the tower, the tower will automatically attack the hero. The tower acts as a semi-safe zone. It plays a little cat and mouse strategy, you can't just dive the tower.
NPC minions/monsters/mobs/creeps running from each base down the lane in an effort to destroy the opposing faction's series of towers.
NPC minion-spawning structure on the outer rim of the main base. Once destroyed, their minions no longer spawn and your team's structure starts spawning more powerful minions.
At least one lane's towers/unit spawning structures need to be dead before your team can attack the main base for the win.
Each base would have an item shop where heroes could return and spend currency earned through kills/tower kills/minion kills/etc. on items. Allow items to be resold in case you make an accidental purchase! Allow a wide variety of items so the player can define his or her playstyle for their selected hero. Hero A may like certain items while Hero B may hurt their own potential by getting Hero A's items, and vice versa.
Heroes level up and can skill up the abilities of their choosing in any order. Items and skill path determine how a champion is played. One champion may choose to level up skill Q and specialize in melee combat while another may choose skill W and specialize in ranged. This can be the same champion as well! This adds more dynamic options for each hero. However, some may be limited by their basic archtype, and that's okay! The Inquisitor has both a melee and ranged weapon though; she'd be a good example of someone that could potentially fill a ranged or melee role.
Explorable jungle between each lane containing NPC neutral monsters to kill for buffs/extra money. Some characters would have the potential to solely level their heroes in the jungle so that their lanemates can solo and level faster.
Levels and items reset at the beginning of each match; you do not carry unlocks and levels from one match to the next to assure fair play.

I'll add more if I think I'm missing anything, but I'm sure Relic is familiar with MOBA type games.

[Ruzdreg]

More maps for The Last Stand, but add something to them to make them a little unique in comparrison to each other.

One idea I thought of is making a new map with 4 req points (In addition to the 2 score multiplyer points). These 4 req points represent the 4 gates that allow enemies into the field - if captured by you, then it increases the time it takes for the enemies to spawn in the gate which that the req point controls. If captured by an enemy, then it decreases the time it takes for enemies to be spawned in that gate.
This should encourage players to try and hold those points as they'll face being swamped with too many enemies at one time if they just ignore them. For this to work well, any new map that contains this feature would need to have quite a few spawns over time per gate, something like at least 3 spawns in each gate.

[alex567]

My ideas:
Campain
I would like to see the return of more indepth campains so like in chaos rising:

A single campain for one raise depicting an indepth tail about a strike team, with a massive wargear selection (up to 500) a large leveling up system 40/50 cooler skill points such as renegade jonah orion with his epic bloodletter summoning ability, massively customisable units, squad mates, so tarkus and his kick but squad like in chaos rising, which are each individualy customisable, so more armour is needed more weapons, mabe an accesory each so 1 guy can carry frag grenades but if killed ability is lost, mabe have an additional section with four/five slots that is for squad mates, so a mission reward that is a tactical marine, a scout mabe evan a terminator, possible vary depending on squad, so thaddeus tactical marine gets jump pack, scout gets teleport and terminator gets damaging teleport? cool wargear combinationns, so iron halo/jump pack, heavy bolter/jump pack, commander helmet/jump pack, just stuff with jump pack in general, mabe a section with aquipable abilities, like weapon ability so the weapon the character is wielding gets a bonus, kracken rounds, knock back, an armour ability such as shock (release a small static shock), defend (double armour rating for 60 seconds/ more damage taken increase armour rating) back pack ability, tactical gets increased armour rating, assault marine causes an explosion when taking of or jumps on the spot and causes assault jump damage. So as much customisation as you can get.

OR

A 6/7 race campain with added customisation, and is played like dark crusade/soul storm, so you have gotta capture territories, lotsa territory bonus's like attack any where, or double attack, race customisation, mabe a warrior band so your either a space marine, guardsmen, ork e.t.c and as you go through the game you find other mercinaries such as a chaos space marine to join your force and you will get wargear for each race as you go but you can only have like 5 allies but each ally is drasticaly different, so you could find 5 space marines and dicide to keep them or only want 2 and dispand the reat, again with customisation. Mabe expand the idea of a galaxy/sector map into multiplayer and have a turned based game against other players with either small medium or large sized games small taking an hour in total to play large taking 8-10 hours to play against the same players so a multiplayer game with say 8 tiles and you ahve to capture X to win or hold tile X for 5 turns or just defeat your opponent.

OR

more customisation in last stand, mabe a commander item that allows you additional accesory slots (need more for my guard commander) ork seems to be lacking in side arms (only the one) mabe add more like a rapid firing pistol, or a hand flammer or something snazzy (seccond knife) give space marine more ranged weapons, lascannon, meltagun, heavy bolter, mabe evan a custom built sniper rifle, fires 3 shots?

OR

Multiplayer commander additional customisation, unlock wargear for doing certain things that he can use online, so a helmet that gives him x armour and y health a storm bolter on an un terminator armoured captain, chaos lord a retinue, guard commander retinue customisation so replace with ogryn, stormtrooper e.t.c.

basicaly my point is, more indepth, more customisation, I found the retribution campain a bit lacking compaired to the chaos rising one, I never real found the effort to play the eldar or tyranid campains after I knew they were the same story, because I dont enjoy playing as tyranid or eldar online so the only reason I would play them in campain is for new story, but no such luck, more DLC style personalisation so your commander can pick from the folowing 5 head gears, chest pieces weapon decorations e.t.c. more variables, like the herecy bar in chaos rising, things that will make your play style, stand out from someone elses, make the experiences different each time, make it so that when I am talking to my friend about our campain experiences mine sounds realy different to his, have a campain mode where you and your ally are different races, that you can ally together and have a co op ending or attack each other and have an ending where your stood over your allies remains triumphant with a dark screen and an epic voice over about how evan the bonds of friendship are no match against the unrelenting tides of your armies, mabe a dramatic ending fight scene where you kick your allies but or he kicks your but bye using some moment specific abbilities, more in game campain customerisation so instead of just health increase combat increase energy increase add squad members the ability to equip multiple weapons so tarkus with a missle launcher and plasma gun.

Any way thats my ten cents. Hope my ideas are good and they inspire some thought proseces. Thanks
~Alex

[TheWise]

As certain things (actually, meltaguns in SM Tactical Squads, Autarch's Swooping Hawks' battle suit, Tau Commander in Last Stand and so on) suggest me, that another add-on to DoW2 is a very probable thing to appear, I'd like to throw in my 5 cents.

As usually, I’d like to start with Space Marines - what I'd like them to become in the game.

1. First - let's increase a number of Marines in a squad to minimal codex number - 5 (to make them at least a combat squad).
2. Then - frag and krak grenades as default. And - throwing grenades should have automatic mode, switchable on and off pretty much like Overwatch or automatic production now, i.e. by right-clicking on them.
3. Then - no setup time for heavy weapons: damn enough, that they cannot be fired on the move. Or - at least! - make this time very short, less than one second and totally remove unsetting time (i.e. time to make them mobile again);
4. Then – assault marines’ "Jump" as passive ability and a default moving mode for assault marines. I.e. if an assault marine squad is ordered to move to the certain point on the map - they won't run, but will do those "giant bounding leaps" instead. And if they're ordered to make an attack-move - they jump to maximal distance until they can't see the enemy, and attack one seen in smaller leaps. There must be, however, something interesting for "keyboard thumpers" as well - it's a combination of "To the skies!" and "Death from above!" buttons. Visually it could look like current Autarch's abilities, but with SM specific - normal grenades instead of plasma ones and not so mild landing.;
5. Then - separate weapon upgrade options for squad leaders;
6. Normal commander choice: Force Commander, Chaplain and Librarian as primary commanders, and Company Champion, Techmarine and Apothecary as secondary ones. For with all respect to those three – they aren’t officers, they are veteran sergeants at best. I.e. there can be one primary and up to three secondary commanders at the same time on the battlefield.
Or - yet more radical variant - there can be only ONE commander (and, respectively, primary hero) - Force Commander or Captain. And ALL the rest are secondary heros (like it, actually, was in DoW 1). This coud solve a "problem" with different (not necessary 3) types of commanders for different races.
7. Sergeants from the start, not as upgrade.
8. As few as possible visually stupid scenes like cutting buildings and vehicles with melee weapons, having wider use of special weapons for these purposes instead. As first instance - demolitin charges as interchangeable (like special weapons for tactical SM) upgrade - a squad (any, even scouts!) can have either melta bombs or them;
9. Commanders (primary and secondary ones) joining squads and detaching from them (like in DoW 1);
10. ALL units should be buildable (or both buildable and deployable), instead support options should be more like artillery strikes, air strikes and so on – Whirlwind strikes (normal and incendiary ones), Thunderhawk and/or Stormraven assault and bombing runs. If units are both buildable and droppable - having Stormraven and Thunderhawk covered drops (one aircraft deploys troops, while another covers it from the air) and assault drops (first assault or bombing run, than deploying troops) would be nice (Russian - made Blitzkrieg wargame could be used as reference);
11. As for primary commanders - Force Commander can be as he is now, while both Chaplain and Librarian should be with full set of wargear upgrades each, including Terninator armor, with only one weapon upgradeable, however (Crozius Arcanum for Chapllain and Force Weapon for Librarian are unchangeable).
12. Secondary commanders - Apothecary can more or less as he is, while for Techmarine there is a couple of wishes. First one is Servo-harness, second - melee weapons as weapon ungrade options. The Company Champion is, in general, a version of a Force Commander with even more focus on personal melee skills by cost of command special abilities.

Units by Tiers.

Tier 1

Scouts:

a) Scout Sergeant and 4 Scouts;
b) default wargear – boltguns, frag and krak grenades, throwing grenades is autocastable (see above), grenade types are either switchable by the left-click or both grenade types have separate buttons and both can be operated in automatic or manual mode;
c) weapon upgrades – 1 heavy weapon (heavy bolter or missile launcher), or 2 sniper rifles, or close combat kits (bolt pistol and chainsword), or shotguns. Actually – only heavy weapon and sniper rifles are mutually exclusive, 3 slots left from heavy weapon upgrade (or 2 left from sniper rifles) can be filled with either close combat kits or shotguns;
d) 1 special type of ammunition for heavy bolter – Vengeance, Dragonfire or Hellfire (can be taken from the campaign). Ammo types are switchable by left-click (like currently missile types in the Sentinel);
e) second – Manstopper (slug shot, good versus armoured targets) in addition to existing explosive rounds (good versus en mass poorly armoured infantry) – special type of ammunition for shotguns. Ammo types (now 3 ones) are either switchable via left-click or all represented by buttons and can be used in automatic or manual mode;
f) missile types for missile launchers – frag or krak – are switchable via left-click;
g) infiltration model – via Camo Cloaks, i.e. with no energy cost (and time limitations), but scouts are decloaked (become “blinking red”) on the move (in certain radius from the enemy), or simply getting too close (even being stationery, but radius is yet smaller), or opening fire (except for firing the sniper rifles);
h) separate weapon upgrade options for Scout Sergeant: he starts with a bolter, which can be replaced by close combat kit for free on Tier 1. On Tier 2 bolt pistol can be replaced with plasma pistol, chainsword - by power weapon or power fist. If close combat kit is not selected - the bolter can be replaced (on the same Tier 2) by a storm bolter, combi-weapon or Stalker pattern bolter;
i) Scout Sergeant can also take melta bombs, proximity mines or demolition charges;
j) weapon loadout can be changed on the battlefield, but not anywhere – only near either HQ or Razorback;

Space Marines Tactical Squad:

a) 1 Sergeant and 4 Space Marines;
b) default wargear – boltguns, frag and krak grenades. Throwing grenades can be switched to autocast be right-clicking, switching between grenade types is carried out by left-click or hotkey. Switching between normal and special bolter rounds – by left – click or hotkey;
c) the squad can have 1 heavy OR 1 special weapon. Heavy weapons are heavy bolter, or missile launcher, or plasma cannon, or lascannon, or multi-melta. Special weapons – flamer, plasma gun or meltagun;
d) I repeat – no setup time for heavy weapons: with assault infantry jumps as passive ability and autocasted grenade throwing it's damn enough, than they cannot be fired on the move. They, practically, should be operated like they are in campaign by characters with “heavy weapon mastery” special ability - i.e. arc of fire is still limited, changing it requires some time, but setting/unsetting up is removed;
e) Tactical Sergeant must have his separate weapon upgrade system. He starts with boltgun, which can be replaced by bolt pistol and chainsword for free. If not - boltgun can be replaced by a storm bolter, Stalker pattern bolter, combi-flamer, combi-plasma or combi-melta. Secondary weapon is fired as a special ability.
f) If bolt pistol and chainsword is selected, first can be replaced with a special pistol – plasma, flame or melta one, while second – by power weapon (sword or axe) or power fist;
g) Sergeant may take melta bombs, proximity mines or demolition charges;
h) the weapon loadout can be changed on the battlefield, but not anywhere (as it is now) – only near the HQ or Razorback;

Tier 2

Devastator Squad:

a) 1 Devastator Sergeant and 4 Devastators;
b) Default wargear – two heavy bolters, three boltguns (one is Sergeant’s), frag and krak grenades. Throwing the latter (by bolter - armed battle brothers, naturally) can be switched to autocast. Type of grenades is either switched manually or there are two options, each of whose can be used automatically or manually;
c) Heavy bolters can have 1 type of special ammunition (selected as free upgrade) – Vengeance, Kraken, Dragonfire, Metal Storm or Hellfire. Switching between ammunition types – like it’s currently done in IG Sentinels. Changing the type of special ammunition – near the HQ or Razorback for free;
d) heavy bolter(s) can be replaced by lascannon(s), missile launcher(s), plasma cannon(s) or multi-melta(s) in any combination;
e) I repeat one’s more – no setup time for heavy weapons;
f) Sergeant must have his separate system of weapon upgrades (see entry for tactical sergeant). The only difference – “Enhanced targeting” adds a signum, which increases accuracy and, to some extent, range;
g) weapon loadout can be changed on the battlefield, but – not anywhere, only near the HQ or Razorback;

Assault Squad:

a) 1 Assault Sergeant and 4 Assault Marines;
b) default wargear – bolt pistols, chainswords, frag and krak grenades, jump packs. Throwing grenades can be switched to autocast be right-clicking. Type of grenades is either switched manually or there are two options, each of whose can be used automatically or manually;
c) “Jump” should be a passive ability. "To the skies" and "Death from above" (see above) as active ones;
d) one assault marine can replace his bolt pistol by a special one – plasma, flame or melta;
e) Assault Sergeant has his own system for weapon upgrades. His bolt pistol can be replaced by a special pistol (plasma, flame or melta) or storm shield, while chainsword – by power weapon (sword or axe), or lightning claw, or power fist, or thunder hammer. Or – both pistol and chainsword can be replaced by a pair of lightning claws;
f) the assault sergeant can take a combat shield (not current LS DLC one though, for combat shield shouldn’t replace the pistol) and melta bombs, proximity mines or demolition charges;
g) weapon loadout can be changed on the battlefield, but – not anywhere, only near the HQ or Razorback;

Razorback:

a) 1 Razorback;
b) default wargear – as it is, twin-linked heavy bolters and smoke launchers;
c) can take extra armor – reinforced or spaced one. Let’s assume, that first is better versus mechanical weapons, second – versus energy weapons. Or vice versa;
d) can take dozer blade, allowing it to clear it’s way through rubble and break through walls. That's at least. At best - allows making the stopgap covers;
e) can take a storm bolter (fired, though, only when an SM squad is inside);
f) twin-linked heavy bolters can be replaced by twin-linked lascannons, or multi-melta, or twin-linked heavy flamers, or twin-linked assault cannons, or lascannon and twin-linked plasma gun;
g) as mentioned above, beside being a mobile reinforcement point, should be also a mobile point for changing weapon loadout;
h) weaponry of a Razorback itself also can be changed on the battlefield, but – only near HQ or a Techmarine must be nearby;
i) some kind of “Repair” ability (in price of disabling the vehicle for that time) should be implemented for Razorback;

Dreadnought:

a) 1 Dreadnought;
b) default wargear – as now, two close combat weapons. The only wish here – adding underslung or built-in storm bolters to them (as per Codex). Yep, even close combat Dreadnought must shoot as well;
c) right arm can be replaced with: “Dreadfire” close combat arm (with built-in heavy flamer), multi-melta, twin-linked heavy bolter, twin-linked heavy flamer, twin-linked autocannon, twin-linked lascannon, assault cannot, plasma cannon, inferno cannon, missile launcher;
d) left arm can be replaced with: “Dreadfire” close combat arm (with built-in heavy flamer), twin-linked heavy bolter, twin-linked autocannon, twin-linked lascannon, assault cannon, missile launcher;
e) virtually any combination of weapons can be utilized. There are some more options (like assault drill with built-in heavy flamer, seismic hammer with meltagun, chainfist with meltagun, hurricane bolter), but currently they are not included in the game and, I assume, hardly will ever be (at least in DoW2). And in stark reality purely shooty weapon loadouts find only rare use and are mentioned only to represent the “Mortis” pattern dreadnouthts;
f) can take extra armor;
g) weapon loadouts can be changed on the battlefield, but – only near HQ or a Techmarine must be nearby;
h) can be upgraded to Venerable one (on Tier 3);

Predator:

a) 1 Predator;
b) default wargear – turret-mounted autocannon and 2 sponson-mounted heavy bolters (so called Destructor pattern);
c) sponson-mounted heavy bolters can be replaced with heavy flamers, lascannons (Annihilator pattern) or multi-melta (Baal);
d) autocannon can be replaced with twin-linked lascannon (Annihilator), Flamestorm cannon (Baal) or twin-linked assault cannons (Baal);
e) can take extra armor – reinforced or spaced one;
f) turret weapon has shadow zone, i.e. cannot hit targets too close to the tank;
g) to partly cover this shadow zone, a storm bolter on the turret can be bought as upgrade;
h) all weapon replacements can be done either near the HQ or a Techmarine must be nearby;

Vindicator – yes, dedicated siege engine, really fast in destroying enemy bases:

a) 1 Vindicator;
b) default wargear – Demolisher cannon (the same as Baneblade currently has), smoke launchers;
c) storm bolter, siege shield (huge dozer blade), extra armor – reinforced or spaced one, storm bolter can be taken as upgrade;
d) all weapon upgrades can be performed either near the HQ or a Techmarine must be nearby

Techmarine: almost as he is now, just a secondary commander, not primary one. The only wished changes are:

a) combinations of a pistol (bolt, flamer, plasma or melta one) and melee weapons (chainsword, power sword or power axe) as weapon option;
b) servo-harness (making the Techmarine a deadly close combat specialist besides a repair monster) as upgrade;

Apothecary: almost as he is now, just a secondary commander, not primary one. The only wished changes are:

a) “Heal”, "Purification vials" (or how those mean chemical grenades are called?) and "Combat Stimulants" should be autocastable (autocast is switched on/off by right-click), "Heal" is applied every time to the most damaged unit (including the Apothecary himself), "Combat Stimulants" to the currently suppressed one and grenades as any other grenades;

Company Champion - merely a version of Force Commander with even deeper focus on personal melee skills by the cost of total absence of command abilities (practically - enemy hero slayer);

Tier 3.

Terminator Squad: as they are, just buildable. And the only wished changes are:

a) 1 Terminator Sergeant and 4 Terminators;
b) default wargear – terminator armor, storm bolter and power fist (Terminators) or power weapon (Terminator Sergeant);
c) one Terminator can either replace his storm bolter with an assault cannon or heavy flamer or take a Cyclone missile launcher;
d) any Terminator can replace his power fist by chainfist;

Terminator Assault Squad – almost as they are, just buildable. And the only wishes are:

a) Assault Terminator Sergeant and 4 Terminators;
b) default wargear – terminator armor, lightning claws;
c) any Assault Terminator can replace his lightning claws by a storm shield and thunder hammer;

Land Raider – can be as it is. The only (possible) wish is – different patterns (normal, Crusader, Redeemer, maybe Achilles, Ares and Terminus Ultra) available. Or all weapons – hull-mounted, pintle-mounted, sponson-mounted – should be customizable (to sound extend, naturally).

[Promythyus]

TheWise, might I suggest you go look at the DoW2 modding forum. HorusHeretic is making a mod that brings everything into line with the codices, from the look of it that's what you want so you'll probably enjoy it.

[TheWise]

It’s me again, continuing my speculation about “what would I like to see in the next expansion to DoW2”. And now, it’s time to talk about Chaos Space Marines. In general, some (though not very notable) diversity between worshippers of particular Chaos Gods is already present in the game. And I personally would like to see more of it. That’s besides my (I assume, not only my) general "Closer to Codex" approach. If more detailed, than:

a) minimal Codex size of CSM squad – i.e. an Aspiring Champion plus 4 Chaos Space Marines;
b) Aspiring Champions/Demagogues (for Cultists)/Enforcers (for Renegade Guardsmen) right from the start, not as upgrade;
c) Daemons should be summoned, not built from HQ. It should take the same time and cost the same resources, only mechanics of deploying them to the battlefield should alter: lesser daemons can be summoned by squads carrying the Chaos Icon, Greater Daemons can be summoned only into body (in game terms - instead) at least secondary commander;
d) only Chaos Lord and Chaos Sorcerer should be primary commanders (Dark Apostle can be added, if in the next expansion Word Bearers will be put in the focus as Chaos Undivided worshippers instead of current Black Legion);
e) Chaos Champions (of any kind), respectively, can be only secondary commanders;
f) primary commanders should have access to full range of wargear including Chaos Terminator armour (of an older mark, than one of their loyalist counterparts), daemon weapons and so on, while secondary commander(s) partly can remain as they are (Plague and Blood Champions can be taken from the current campaign, with severely reduced wargear sets, naturally), while in other part (Champions of Tzeentch and Slaanesh) are to be created yet);
g) above mentioned diversity means for Chaos, that all 5 kinds of Chaos Legions - Chaos Undivided, and dedicated worshippers of all 4 Chaos Gods - should be represented, and they should differ not purely by their appearance;
h) let’s say, Chaos Undivided Legions (like current Black Legion or Word Bearers) - should be "almost mirror" to Space Marines with vast list of “normal” units, but with ability to summon only lesser daemons;
i) worshippers of Khorne (World Eaters, for instance) – no tactical marines (Khorne Berzerkers instead of them), no Havocs, no Raptors (for they are cult in their own right and don't tolerate zealous worshippers of other cults), no Obliterators (for the same reason), no Sorcerers, melee-only Chaos Dreadnoughts, no Land Raiders. Instead – full range of Khorne daemons – not only Bloodletters, but also Flesh Hounds, Bloodcrushers, Heralds of Khorne and – the Bloodthirster;
j) worshippers of Slaanesh (Emperor's Children) – Noise Marines instead of Havocs, noise weapons as upgrade to tactical marines, Noise Dreadnoughts in addition to normal ones, no Raptors, no Obliterators, no Land Raiders. Instead – full range of Slaanesh daemons: Daemonettes, Fiends of Slaanesh, Seekers, Heralds of Slaanesh and - the Keeper of Secrets;
k) worshippers of Tzeentch (Thousand Sons) – Rubric Marines instead of tactical ones, with Aspiring Sorcerers instead of Aspiring Champions, insuppressible and unpinnable with arcane shields like weaker versions of Dark Halo, but terribly slow and with no weapon upgrades. Dreadnoughts are also Rubric ones – with arcane shields, but ranged-only (no close combat arms). Again – no Raptors, no Obliterators, no Land Raiders. Instead – full range of Tzeentch daemons: Pink Horrors (splitting to two Blue Horrors), Flamers, Screamers, Heralds of Tzeench and – the Lord of Change;
l) worshippers of Nurgle (Death Guard) – Plague Marines instead of normal Chaos Marines (increased HP, unsuppressable, poisonous melee weapons, but - no heavy weapons allowed, only special ones). No Raptors, no Obliterators, no Land Raiders, and full host of Nurgle daemons - Plaguebearers, Beasts of Nurgle, Nurglings (swarm), Heralds of Nurgle and - Great Unclean One;
m) points from g) to l) are not critical (for they mean a whole bunch of dirty bloody balance work and – then even more work to make the same diversity to normal Space Marines and other races, which – in best case! – can be done in DoW3). But at the very least – I’d like to see the Khorne Berzerkers, Rubric Marines, Noise Marines and Plague Marines all as separate units as well as normal CSM and all of them – as close to Codex as possible in RTS game;
n) all wishes mentioned in the Space Marines’ entry – autocast option for basic special abilities, passive "Jump", separate weapon upgrades for Aspiring Champions/Aspiring Sorcerers, better balance between melee and ranged damage, more devastating psychic powers - are welcome here as well;

Units by Tiers.

Tier 1.

Chaos Cultists - meat shield and expendable material, almost nothing to change.

a) 1 Demagogue (not Aspiring Champion – leading the Cultists is considered infra dig among the Chaos Space Marines) plus, say, 9 Cultists;
b) default wargear – as it is now, a sword and a (stub?) pistol, frag and krak grenades;
c) the only weapon upgrade – ranged weapon pack: 1 grenade launcher is added, and swords are replaced with stubbers aka autoguns (assault rifles, pretty close to modern ones);
d) squad can take a Mark of Chaos and Chaos Icon (beacon for summoning the daemons);
e) weapon loadouts can be changed, but only near HQ, Chaos Rhino or Chaos Land Raider;

Renegade Guardsmen – pretty much like normal ones, just fighting for Chaos and mostly armed with older-pattern weapons: stubbers instead of lasguns. Way more resilient, than Cultists.

a) 1 Enforcer and 9 Guardsmen;
b) default wargear – flak armour, stubber (assault rifle), frag and krak grenades;
c) Enforcer starts with dual autopistols (practically – machine pistols);
d) all Guardsmen can replace their stubbers with lasguns (Tier 2);
e) 1 Guardsman can replace his stubber with a grenade launcher or a flamer (Tier 1);
f) another 2 Guardsmen can be replaced by a heavy weapon team (Tier 2) – heavy stubber, or mortar, or lascannon one (variety is narrower, than one of loyalist guardsmen);
g) Enforcer can replace his dual autopistols with either shotgun or close combat kit (laspistol and chainsword) on Tier 1. On Tier 2 close combat kit is upgraded to a bolt pistol and an axe, or power mace, or power whip. On Tier 3 a bolt pistol can be replaced by a special (plasma, flame or melta) pistol;
h) squad as whole can take a Mark of Chaos;
i) one Guardsman can take a squad Chaos Icon (a beacon for summoning the daemons);
j) weapon loadouts can be changed, but only near HQ, Chaos Rhino or Chaos Land Raider;

Practically, Renegade Guardsmen are mostly utilized by Chaos Undivided legions, while Cultists - mostly by worshippers of certain patron god.

Chaos Space Marines (Chaos Glory and Slaanesh – devoted legions), or Berzerkers (Khorne-devoted legions), or Plague Marines (Nurgle-devoted legions), or Rubric Marines (Tzeench – devoted legions).

Chaos Space Marines – almost mirror to their loyalist counterparts, more universal and flexible though (they haven’t got any codices restricting them!).

a) Aspiring Champion and 4 Chaos Space Marines;
b) default wargear – power armor, bolter, frag and krak grenades;
c) bolter can be replaced by bolt pistol and chainsword for free (Tier1);
d) on Tier 2, if close combat kit was not selected on Tier 1, one Chaos Space Marine can replace his bolter with either special or heavy weapon – flamer, meltagun, plasma gun, heavy bolter, missile launcher, autocannon, lascannon;
e) on Tier 2, if close combat kit is selected on Tier 1, one CSM can replace his bolt pistol with a plasma pistol;
f) squad can take any of Marks of Chaos: Mark of Khorne increases attack speed in melee, Mark of Tzeench increases armor level, Mark of Nurgle grants increased HP, and Mark of Slaanesh – increased sight radius and effective range of fire;
g) one squad member can take a Chaos Icon, granting the ability to summon lesser daemons of certain Chaos God;
h) Aspiring Champion has his own weapon upgrade system: his bolter can be replaced by twin-linked bolter or combi – weapon ( - flamer, - plasma or - melta). His bolt pistol (if close combat kit is selected on Tier 1) - by plasma pistol, while his chainsword - with power weapon or power fist;
i) Aspiring Champion can take melta bombs;
j) in Slaanesh – devoted legions sonic special and heavy weapons (Sound Blaster, Blast Master, Doom Siren) are weapon upgrade options instead of normal ones;
k) weapon loadouts can be changed, but only near HQ, Chaos Rhino or Chaos Land Raider;

Khorne Berzerkers – replace normal CSM in Khorne – devoted legions. Or are simply available as separate unit on Tier 2. Pretty fast and unsuppressable melee experts. On the other hand – cannot retreat (they do or die!), no heavy or special weapons available.

a) 1 Skull Champion and 4 Berzerkers;
b) default wargear – power armor, bolt pistol, chainsword, frag and krak grenades;
c) have Mark of Khorne by default;
d) on Tier 2 chainswords can be replaced by chainaxes, and 1 Berzerker can take plasma pistol instead of his bolt pistol;
e) Skull Champion has his own weapon upgrade system: he starts with a bolt pistol and chainaxe. His bolt pistol can be replaced by a special (plasma, flame or melta) pistol on Tier 2. His chainaxe –an be replaced by a power weapon (sword or axe) or power fist;
f) Skull Champion can take melta bombs;
g) one Berzerker can take an Icon of Khorne, granting the ability to summon lesser daemons of Khorne;
h) weapon loadouts can be changed, but only near HQ, Chaos Rhino or Chaos Land Raider;

Plague Marines – substitute CSM in Nurgle - devoted legions. Or are simply available as separate unit on Tier 2. Unsuppressible, have noticeably more HP, have poisonous close combat weapons – Plague Swords, Blight Grenades as third grenade type. On the other hand – are slower than normal CSM, no heavy weapons.

a) Plague Champion and 4 Plague Marines;
b) default wargear – power armor, bolter, frag, krak and blight grenades;
c) bolter can be replaced by a bolt pistol and Plague Sword for free on Tier 1;
d) have Mark of Nurgle by default;
e) on Tier 2 one Plague Marine can replace his bolter (if close combat kit is not selected on Tier 1) by a bile thrower, plasma gun or meltagun;
f) if close combat kit was selected on Tier 1, one PM can replace his bolt pistol with plasma pistol;
g) one PM can take an Icon of Nurgle, granting the ability to summon lesser daemons of Nurgle;
h) Plague Champion has his own weapon ungrade system: his bolter on Tier 2 can be replaced with twin-linked bolter or combi-weapon (- plasma, - bile thrower or – melta). If close combat kit is selected on Tier 1 – bolt pistol can be replaced with plasma pistol, while plague sword – with power weapon or power fist;
i) Plague Champion can take melta bombs;
j) weapon loadouts can be changed, but only near HQ, Chaos Rhino or Chaos Land Raider;

Rubric Marines – substitute normal CSM in Tzeentch – devoted legions. Or are simply available as separate unit on Tier 2. Unsuppressible, have arcane shields (practically, weaker version of Dark Halo) in addition to normal armor, have Inferno bolts - special ammunition ignoring any infantry armor save Terminators’ one, are led by Aspiring Sorcerer with decent psychic powers. On the other hand – slow as hell, neither special nor heavy weapons available, no close combat weapons, no grenades.
a) Aspiring Sorcerer and 4 Rubric Marines;
b) default wargear – power armor, bolter. Aspiring Sorcerer has bolt pistol and force weapon;
c) Aspiring Sorcerer can have different psychic powers;
d) Aspiring Sorcerer can take melta bombs;
e) weapon loadouts can be changed, but only near HQ, Chaos Rhino or Chaos Land Raider;

Above mentioned cult troops are available to Chaos Undivided legions too, but - from Tier 2, not Tier 1. Or – if such diversity is unreachable – just available to Chaos as separate units, not as application of Marks of Chaos to normal CSM.

Summoned lesser daemons – can be Bloodletters, Daemonettes, Plaguebearers or Pink Horrors.

a) summoned in the packs of 5;
b) summoned to any unit with a Chaos Icon;
c) type of Chaos Icon defines type of summoned daemons;
d) daemons cannot be reinforced;
e) daemons have limited lifetime in our world;
f) on the other hand – they cannot be suppressed;
g) Bloodletters – can remain as they are;
h) Daemonettes – resemble twisted banshees with built-in CC weapons and Aura of Seduction, slowing down enemies in close combat;
i) Plaguebearers – human – size with plague swords and the same aura, that plague marines have;
j) Pink Horrors – the only ranged daemons, hurling bolts of warprire. Also human – size in terms of HP, do not fight in melee. On death each creates two bound Blue Horrors (this time melee ones)

Tier 2.

Chaos Raptors (Chaos Undivided only) – are almost symmetric to their loyalist counterparts, Assault Marines. Use older patterns of wargear, however, thus way weaker.

a) Aspiring Champion and 4 Raptors;
b) default wargear – power armor, jump packs, bolt pistol, chainsword, frag and krak grenades;
c) “Jump” is passive ability, active – bound of “To the skies!” and “Death from above!” (see Assault Marines’ entry in my previous post);
d) squad can take any of the Marks of Chaos (see Chaos Space Marines’ entry above);
e) squad can take any Chaos Icon (granting the ability to summon the daemons of certain patron god);
f) on Tier 2 chainswords may be replaced by cnainaxes;
g) one Raptor can replace his bolt pistol with plasma pistol, or both bolt pistol and chainsword - by a flamer, plasma gun or melta gun;
h) Aspiring Champion has his own wargear upgrade options: he starts with bolt pistol and chainsword. Bolt pistol can be replace by a plasma pistol, while chainsword - by power sword, power axe or power fist;
i) or both chainsword and bolt pistol can be replaced by a pair of lightning claws;
j) Aspiring Champion can take melta bombs;
k) weapon loadouts can be changed, but not anywhere - only near the HQ, Chaos Rhino or Chaos Land Raider;

Chaos Havocs – pretty close counterpart to Devastators with older marks of weaponry, though.

a) Aspiring Champion and 4 Havocs;
b) default wargear – 2 heavy bolters and 3 bolters (including Aspiring Champion’s one);
c) Havocs with heavy bolters may replace them with any heavy or special weapon from the following list: lascannon, missile launcher, autocannon, flamer, plasma gun, melta gun in any combination;
d) squad can take any of Marks of Chaos;
e) squad can take any of Chaos Icons;
f) Aspiring Champion has his own wargear upgrade scheme (see the entry for normal Chaos Space Marine Aspiring Champion);
g) weapon loadouts can be changed, but only near HQ, Chaos Rhino or Chaos Land Raider;

Noise Marines – substitute Havocs in Slaanesh-devoted legions and warbands (like Emperor’s Children or Flawless Host). Or are simply available as separate unit on Tier 2.

a) Noise Champion and 4 Noise Marines;
b) starting wargear – 2 sound blasters and 3 bolters (including the AC’s one);
c) the only squad upgrade – sound blasters can be replaced by blastmasters;
d) Noise Champion has his own wargear upgrade options, pretty close to ones for normal Aspiring Champion, with Doom Siren as additional option;
e) the only wish – sound blasters shouldn’t work like merely disorienting weapon, preventing ranged units from shooting – in Codex they work like something average between big shootas and heavy bolters with normal bolters' range;
f) blastmaster also should have two modes – close to heavy bolters’ one and close to, say, plasma cannon one;
g) weapon loadouts can be changed, but only near HQ, Chaos Rhino or Chaos Land Raider;

Chaos Chosen – Chaos analogue to SM Veterans (Chaos Undivided only).

a) 1 Aspiring Champion and 4 Chaos Chosen;
b) default wargear – power armor, bolter, frag and krak grenades;
c) default wargear can be switched to close combat kit – bolt pistol and chainsword – for free;
d) Chaos Chosen infiltrate the way similar to one of SM Scouts;
e) if close combat kit is not selected, one Chosen can replace his bolter with either heavy or special weapon - a heavy bolter, an autocannon, a missile launcher, a lascannon, a flamer, a plasma gun or a melta gun;
f) two more Chosen (including Aspiring Champion) can replace their bolters with special weapons – flamer, plasma gun or meltagun, or twin-linked bolter, or combi-weapon (-flamer, - melta or –plasma);
g) if close combat kit is selected, two Chosen can eplace their bolt pistols with plasma pistols, or replace their chainswords with a power weapon (sword or axe), or power fist, or lightning claw. Or replace both bolt pistol and chainsword with a pair of lightning claws;
h) any Chosen can take melta bombs;
i) weapon loadouts can be changed, but only near HQ, Chaos Rhino or Chaos Land Raider;

Possessed Chaos Space Marines (certain cult devotees only) – specialist melee troops with very fast attack, immune to morale damage. Armed with daemonic close combat weapons, similar to one of lesser daemons of respective cult.

a) 1 Possessed Champion and 4 Possessed Chaos Space Marines;
b) power armor and single daemonic close combat weapon;

Chaos Rhino – almost normal Rhino, mobile point for reinforcing troops and changing weapon loasouts;

a) 1 Chaos Rhino;
b) default wargear – twin-linked bolter, smoke launchers;
c) can take extra armor (reinforced or spaced one), dozer blade, daemonic possession;
d) can replace it's twin-linked bolter by combi-weapon ( - flamer, -plasma or – melta) or havoc (rocket) launcher;
e) up to 2 carried Chaos Space Marines can fire on the move from the top hatch;
f) some kind of self-repair (by the price of temporary disabling the vehicle) should be implemented;
g) weapon loadouts can be changed, but only near HQ;

Chaos Dreadnought – almost mirror to loyalist one.

a) 1 Chaos Dreadnought;
b) default wargear – smoke launcher and (mostly left) close combat arm (mostly chainfist), plus twin-linked bolter under the hull.
c) such underslung twin-linked bolter can be replaced with heavy flamer;
d) other (mostly right) arm can be armed with twin-linked autocannon, or twin-linked lascannon, or twin-linked heavy bolter, or multi-melta, or plasma cannon, or be replaced with second close combat arm;
e) two close combat arms (power claws) are the only option for devotees of Khorne;
f) left arm can be replaced with missile launcher (and this is the only option for devotees of Tzeentch), such Dreadnought has also arcane shields similar to ones of Rubric Marines;
g) sonic weapons (doom siren, sound blaster and blastmaster) are additional options for Slaanesh – devotees;
h) devotees of Nurgle can have different (plague claw, a variant of power claw) close combat weapon, and bile spewer instead of a flamer;
i) a Dreadnought can take extra armor;
j) weapon loadouts can be changed, but only near HQ;

Chaos Predator – almost mirror to the loyalists’ one.

a) 1 Chaos Predator;
b) starts with smoke launchers, autocannon and sponson-mounted heavy bolters;
c) the only weapon upgrade – twin-linked lascannon in the turret;
d) can take a pintle-mounted weapon: twin-linked bolter, combi-weapon or havoc launcher;
e) can take extra armor (reinforced or spaced one) and dozer blade;
f) weapon loadouts can be changed, but only near HQ;

Chaos Vindicator – almost mirror to the loyalists’ one.

a) 1 Chaos Vindicator;
b) Demolisher cannon, smoke launchers, dozer blade;
c) can take extra armor and one of pintle – mounted weapons – twin-linked bolter, combi – weapon or havoc launcher;
d) can take extra armor;

“Intermediate” (name is intermediate as well) summoned daemons - can be Flesh Hounds of Khorne, Fiends of Slaanesh, Beasts of Nurgle, Flamers of Tzeentch, Bloodcrushers, Seekers, Nurglings, Screamers.

a) summoned in packs of 3;
b) rules of summoning are the same as for lesser daemons;
c) lifetime is also limited, though way longer;
d) cannot be reinforced either;
e) Flesh Hounds – just huge vicious hounds, counted as heavy infantry;
f) Fiends of Slaanesh – something average between a horse and a big scorpion, melee-only, also heavy infantry;
g) Beasts of Nurgle – practically, crawling bile spewers;
h) Flamers of Tzeentch – respectively, floating flamers;
i) Bloodcrushers – not counting a vehicle, as they are now, counting instead as super-heavy infantry (pretty close to current Ogryns);
j) Seekers – also super—heavy infantry, also melee – only, now with Aura of Seduction;
k) Nurglings – swarm, close to current Reaper Swarm, just poisonous besides all;
l) Screamers – jumping infantry, ranged;

Heralds of certain Chaos Gods – seem as a pretty good idea for being secondary heros for Chaos, as well as pre-requisite for summoning Greater Daemons;

Tier 3.

Chaos Terminators – almost symmetric to their loyalist counterparts, just don armor and use weaponry of older patterns.

a) Chaos Terminator Champion and 4 Chaos Terminators;
b) default wargear – terminator armor, power weapon, twin-linked bolter;
c) any terminator can replace his power weapon with lightning claw, power fist or chainfist;
d) any terminator can replace his twin – linked bolter with a combi – weapon (- flamer, - plasma or – melta);
e) or both twin-linked bolter and power weapon can be replaced by a pair of lightning claws;
f) one terminator can replace his twin – linked bolter with either reaper autocannon or heavy flamer;
g) one terminator can take a Chaos Icon (any of 5 existing);
h) naturally, they can teleport;
i) weapon loadouts can be changed, but only near HQ or Chaos Land Raider;

Obliterator Cult – super – heavy teleporting infantry with whole bunch of weapons.

a) 3 Obliterators;
b) armed with 6 weapons (only one can be fired at a time, though): lascannon, plasma cannon, multi-melta; twin-linked plasma gun, twin-linked meltagun, twin-linked flamer;
c) in game terms “only one at a time” can mean 6 buttons, toggled manually;
d) weapon loadouts can be changed on the battlefield, but – only near HQ;

Chaos Defiler – heavy walker, both mobile artillery and assault/siege engine;

a) 1 Chaos Defiler;
b) default wargear – two dreadnought - scale close combat weapons; battle cannon, reaper autocannon, twin-linked heavy flamer, smoke launchers;
c) heavy flamer can be replaced by a third close combat weapon or havoc (rocket) launcher;
d) reaper autocannon can be replaced by twin-linked heavy bolter, fourth close combat arm or twin-linked lascannon;
e) weapon loadouts can be changed on the battlefield, but – only near HQ;
f) battle cannon has more than decent range and can fire indirectly (to the fog of war);
g) weapon loadouts can be changed, but only near HQ;

Chaos Land Raider – almost symmetric to it's loyalist counterpart.

a) 1 Land Raider;
b) default wargear – twin – linked heavy bolter in the hull, two twin—linked lascannons in side sponsons, smoke launchers;
c) can take extra armor;
d) can take twin—linked bolter, combi—weapon or havoc launcher as pintle—mounted weapons;
e) can transport infantry, including terninators and jump—packed infantry. Obliterators and Chaos Daemons, though, cannot be transported;
f) just like it’s loyalist counterpart, can act as a mobile reinforcement point, rally point for retreat and point for changing weapon loadouts (for infantry only);

Summoned Greater Daemon – can be, respectively, Bloodthirster, Keeper of Secrets, Lord of Change or Creat Unclean One.

a) summoned instead of a primary commander, the latter can be revived only after the Greater Daemon’s death;
b) Herald of certain Chaos God is a prerequisite to summon the greater daemon;
c) lifetime in our world is not limited;
d) Bloodthirster – pretty much like in DoW1;
e) Great Unclean One – as it is;
f) two remaining are to be done yet;

[alex567]

alex567 here again,

I would like to see character specific units, for instance, khorne lord would have CSM tacticals and a mark of khorne upgrade, bloodletters, bloodcrusher, dreadnought with claws +khorne style upgrade abilities, khorne predator, khorne greater daemon, e.t.c., then tzeench sorceror, CSM tacticals with mark of tzeench, horrors, screamers, dreadnought with force weapon +tzeench style upgrade abilities, tzeench predator, lord of change, e.t.c., same for nurgle and slannesh, and mabe a special unit like zerkers or rubric marines, also a slannesh hero if possible

[Ruzdreg]

The Retribution campaign contained a lot of awesome wargear abilities and traits. It would be nice to see these appear in the Last Stand from new wargear items. (Example of these: Tyranid spore mine barrage which causes Spore Mines to rain from the sky, Sorceror's veil of fire that shoruded friendly units in fire which damaged enemy units that made contact, the Ork Nob's terrorfying visage that suppressed enemy units nearby etc..)

[Castigon]

Do not know where to ask really...
I recently came across info that Dawn Of War 2 Retribution is finalized, what means no more expansions > no adding other races,
and devs will focus on Dawn Of War 3 which will be more like Company Of Heroes Online.
Will be appretiated if someone could confirm or deny any of this rumors.

[Darklordjim]

I recently found this suggestion box, and if that post about no more expansions/DLC is true, then I would be sad, because when the new Necron codex was released, I saw immediate potential for a Last Stand DLC character (Necron Overlord). With a cornucopia of wargear to chose from and playing on a recent release, I was sure I was going to see something. Heck, I'd still buy it if it was released.

As for how, it would be a resilient character, medium to high armor scores. Weapons might include the staff of light (ranged weapon), a flamer gauntlet, hyperphase sword (power sword), the infamous warscythe, and maybe some equipment that is on other units in the Necron codex. Some commander, or accessories might include "Reanimation Protocols" which might either act as the Space Marine's revive, or instantly revive nearby fallen members/yourself, but with a long cooldown (similar with the Resurrection Orb, or maybe improves?), Mindshackle scarabs which would be like the many mind-altering effects already present in the game, Tachyon Arrow, which if not used as a weapon slot, you could use it as a ranged damage ability on cooldown. Armor upgrades would of course use "Semitermal Weave" and "Phase shifter."

You COULD play the "legions" aspect, summoning a unit of warriors->Immortals->Deathmarks, but somehow I'm not sure that it is really neccissary for either the character, nor for the game to have another hero with minions (though really, there is nothing wrong with more minions).

As to the argument that the game's balance does not need another character that fills the resilient melee/shooty role, filled by the Space Marine, and to extents ork/tyrannid/tau, I say why not? It will not unbalance the game, just add more variety. Every race does something another cannot, can fill a certain niche, but many of them overlap each other. You COULD eschew the staff of light, and make him melee only (though laughable in terms of the tabletop, it is quite doable), a role that many races can choose, but there is no hero whose focus is only on melee as Tau's is on range. I also like the idea of representing the new flavor of Necrons, since, love them or hate them, they are around to stay, and there is not a better chance to test how they might feature in upcoming games than here as DLC.

In short, The Last Stand is all about options, about how you want to stand against the tide. Necrons can add more options to the table, without upsetting those already there.