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DOW2: ELITE (Experimental Balance Mod)

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    DOW2: ELITE (Experimental Balance Mod)

    Hello !

    I believe introductions are in order, so I present myself; Caeltos. I've been playing DoW2 since the beginning of time (which is since the early beta days) and throughout my journey in DoW2, I've managed to lead/play with the most succesful teams in events/cups/tournaments, most specifically throughout the EMS season alongside with Team Diamond /DA. Apart from that, I've been a co-caster and livecaster and helped alot of people into becoming better gamers.

    Throughout the years, there's been balance complaints left and right- altho, some have been uncalled for and sometimes the cries of the bads have had an onfortunate effects on the how the game was played. However, most of these cases it's been rearranged, but it might have been taken abit to long for Relic to readjust these issues. (Partially throughout the GFWL service time period however, whereas Steamworks is still kicking in).

    But alas, it's come to my conclusion that if we are to test things and make things viable, there's deemed to be some sort of mod around to test and mess around things. You could call it a Balance Mod, but these things are subjective and somewhat hard to accomplish with the lack of playerbase that's deemed to make a metagame settle in and make logical and reasonable conclusion on short timespans. So for me, this is just a mod that doesns't stray away from the formula, but aims to improve the gameplay generally more smoother and consistant.


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    ALL DOWNLOAD LINKS + INSTALLATION GUIDE IS IN THE STEAM GROUP PAGE, PLEASE CHECK IT FIRST BEFORE YOU ASK ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING THE MOD OR INSTALLING IT

    STEAM GROUP: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/DOW2EliteMod
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    LATEST PATCH


    Update
    Chaos Terminators
    * T3 call-in with 1250 health per model, no inspire ability or melee resistance; starts with power fist & storm bolter (same damage as SM versions)
    * Upgrade 1: Autocannon (autocannon_pvp family, 70 burst damage with assault cannon animations makes 32.67 raw DPS, 3 splash radius, 50% moving accuracy)
    * Upgrade 2: Lightning Claws (same damage as SM version, +10 melee skill)
    Whirlwind
    * T2 with 400 health, 7 speed, armed with whirlwind launcher. Cost 300/80, 10 pop, 450 xp, 40 global, 25.5 upkeep
    * Weapon family whirlwind_missile_pvp (same as missile_pvp but prefers infantry targets), damage type is explosive_pvp; fires 6 missiles that do up to 25 damage in radius 5, weapon knockback; range is 12-80, arc is low and missiles can hit obstacles
    Chaos Land Raider
    * T3 with 2000 hp, no healing aura, retreat beacon or reinforce. Cost 700/180, 57.36 upkeep. Comes with hull-mounted twin-linked heavy bolter and two sponson-mounted twin-linked lascannnons (45 range, 130 damage, 1 splash radius). Can add a pintle-mounted storm bolter.
    Chaos Raptors
    * T1 with 400 hp, 70 melee skill, 65 energy to jump. Suppression on landing for 3 seconds, no knockback. Chainsword (34.62 melee DPS) and bolt pistol (7.3 piercing DPS)
    * T2 Aspiring Champion with plasma pistol (7.82 plasma DPS) and lightning claw (30 power melee DPS, specials like KCSM chain axe)
    * T3 Meltaguns (16.47 melta DPS, 40 burst damage each) with CSM melee attack. Upgrade removes the suppression on landing effect and the squad's melee resistance.
    General

    * HQ buildings now also project an aura that reduces all damage taken by 50% for allied heroes and infantry
    * Added the Imperial Fists DLC
    * Added the Word Bearers DLC
    * Added the Behemoth Ultramar Tendril DLC
    * Added the Death Korps of Krieg DLC
    * Added Farseer and Autarch portraits for the Ulthwé DLC
    * Fixed glitched Ulthwé DLC Farseer model
    * Fixed Apothecary army level upgrades (level 12-43 armor was fancier than level 44-60 armor; reversed this)
    * Fixed an issue that caused players to crash whenever Tyranids were selected
    * Fixed a tooltip error with the Force Commander Artificer Armor
    * Fixed a tooltip error on Swamp 'Em
    Increased the Rate of Fire on all bolters from 2 to 3 (this is just a visual effect change) [tested on Tac bolter for now]
    * All retreating units now gain additional +50 melee skill upon retreating

    UI tweaks
    * Force Commander Power Sword decorator changed to (strong) anti-infantry melee
    * Force Commander Storm Shield decorator changed to (normal) anti-infantry melee with enhanced (+) upgrade decorator
    * Force Commander Assault Cannon now shows a jump & enhanced upgrade decorator
    * Force Commander Heavy Flamer now shows a jump & flame upgrade decorator
    * Force Commander Lightning Claws decorator changed to anti-infantry melee AoE; no longer shows an enhanced upgrade decorator
    * Terminator Lightning Claws decorator changed to anti-infantry melee AoE; no longer shows an enhanced upgrade decorator
    * Dreadnought Assault Cannon and Multi-melta are now displayed in the upgrade box when purchased (Dark Age of Technology will still replace them if bought)
    * Warboss Bang Bang Hammer decorator changed to (strong) anti-infantry melee; removed the enhanced upgrade decorator
    * Warboss Kustom Shoota decorator changed to (strong) anti-infantry ranged
    * Mekboy now starts with a jump decorator
    * Mekboy Deffgun upgrade decorator changed to jump & setup
    * Mekboy Beamy Deffgun upgrade decorator changed to jump & setup
    * Nob Squad starting decorator changed to (normal) anti-everything melee
    * Warlock Witchblade of Kurnous decorator changed to (strong) anti-infantry melee
    * Warp Spider Exarch Entangling Web decorator changed to (strong) anti-infantry ranged
    * Warp Spider Exarch Improved Targeters now show a jump & enhanced decorator
    * Warp Spider Exarch Shimmer Orb now shows a grenade & jump decorator
    * Warp Spider Exarch Anti-Grav Grenade now shows a grenade & jump decorator
    * Chaos Lord Combi-Flamer decorator changed to (strong) anti-infantry ranged
    * Chaos Lord Daemon Maul decorator changed to (strong) anti-infantry melee
    * Chaos Lord Lightning Claws decorator changed to (strong) anti-infantry melee
    * Chaos Sorcerer Sword of Flame decorator changed to (strong) anti-infantry melee
    * Chaos Sorcerer Rod of Warpfire decorator changed to (strong) anti-infantry ranged
    * Chaos Sorcerer Vestments of the Warp now shows a jump decorator
    * Plague Champion default decorator changed to (normal) anti-infantry ranged
    * Plague Champion Sword of Undeath decorator changed to (strong) anti-infantry melee
    * Bloodletters decorator changed to (strong) anti-infantry melee
    * Inquisitor Crossbow Bolt Pistol decorator changed to (strong) anti-infantry ranged
    * Inquisitor Holy Brazier decorator changed to (strong) anti-infantry melee
    * Commissar Lord Power Sword decorator changed to (strong) anti-infantry melee
    * Commissar Lord Power Fist decorator changed to (normal) anti-infantry melee (to differentiate from Fist of Brockus) [could also give Brockus a +]
    * Commissar Lord The Emperor's Wrath now grants a grenade upgrade decorator
    * Storm Troopers Assault Kit now grants enhanced & grenade upgrade decorators
    * Storm Troopers Anti-Armor Kit now grants a grenade upgrade decorator

    New custom models
    * Force Commander
    * Terminator Force Commander (helmet)
    * Apothecary
    * Scout Sergeant (helmet)
    * Tactical Marine Sergeant (helmet)
    * Assault Marine Sergeant (helmet)
    * Librarian
    * Terminators (helmet)
    * Chaos Lord (helmet)
    * Plague Champion (helmet)
    * Chaos Sorcerer (helmet)
    * Heretic & CSM Aspiring Champion (helmet)
    * CSM (helmet)
    * Mark of Tzeentch CSM
    * Mark of Khorne CSM (helmet)
    * Guardsman Infantry Squad
    * Heavy Weapon Squad
    * Warp Spider Exarch (helmet)
    * Autarch (helmet)
    * Lord General (hat & cigar)

    Space Marines
    * Drop Pod now becomes a reinforcement beacon for non-Terminator Space Marine infantry
    * Drop Pod health increased from 75 to 500
    * Drop Pod is now uncrushable
    * Orbital Bombardment can now deploy its three targeters in a much larger radius. Increased the radius from 15 to 35. [must test]
    * Orbital Bombardment damage type changed from heavy melee to explosive
    * Force Commander Thunder Hammer special attack damage increased from 25 to 40
    * Increased cost of Thunder Hammer from 150/30 to 150/50
    * Reverted back Thunder Hammer knockback chance from 20% [25%] to 15%
    * Increased cost of Power Fist from 150/50 to 200/50
    * Increased Force Commander Artificer Armor health regeneration from 0.1 to 0.25
    * Increased cost of [Force Commander] Artificer Armor from 100/20 to 100/30
    * Increased cost of Iron Halo from 100/20 to 100/25
    * Force Commander Assault Cannon damage increased from 80 to 100
    * Reduced speed bonus from Sprint (Armor of Alacrity) from 3 to 2
    * Techmarine Bionics health regeneration increased from 0.1 to 0.25
    * Removed melee skill (not melee damage) benefit from Techmarine Bionics
    * Techmarine Refractor Field moved from Tier 2 to Tier 1.
    * Apothecary Sanguine Chainsword charge range further increased by 8 [from 15 to 23]
    * Apothecary Armor of Purity now grants 0.1 health regeneration
    * Infiltration detection now granted by Scout Sergeant instead of Advanced Infiltration [radius 30]
    * Scout Sergeant cost increased from 75/15 to 75/25 (reverted)
    * Advanced Infiltration now increases energy & health regeneration by 0.15 while the squad is not in combat or infiltrated
    * Advanced Infiltration cost reverted back to 50/15
    * Scout Global Resource upon death increased from 7 to 9 [Sergeant = 8]
    * Tactical Marine Global Resource upon death increased from 15 to 18 [Sergeant = 18]
    * Reduced Tactical Marine bolter damage from 27 to 25 (back to default value)
    * Assault Marine Global Resource upon death increased from 17 to 19 [Sergeant = 21]
    * Advanced Targeting (Devastator upgrade) cost adjusted from 50/15 [50/10] to 75/0
    * Reduced build time of Advanced Targeting from 15 to 10 seconds
    * Blind Grenade now reduces the range of garrisoned target or structure by 75% for 10 seconds after its initial disable effect
    * Space Marine Dreadnought cost decreased from 500/120 to 450/120
    * Thunder and Lightning cost reduced from 50/30 to 50/25
    * Predator Extra Armor cost decreased from 135/40 to 100/30
    * Predator Extra Armor build time decreased from 30 to 15 seconds
    * Predator Lascannon build time decreased from 30 to 20 seconds
    * Land Raider Redeemer health reduced from 3000 to 2500
    * Venerable Dreadnought Power cost increased from 0 to 50
    * Deep Strike Terminator Squad [and Deep Strike Assault Terminator Squad] costs increased from 350 Zeal to 400 Zeal

    Orks
    * Use Yer Choppas! cooldown increased from 50 to 120 seconds
    * Use Yer Choppas! damage bonus decreased from 50% to 35%
    * Kommandos Iz Da Sneakiest moved from Tier 2 to Tier 3
    * Kommando Nob Boom Time! cost decreased from 130/30 to 100/20
    * Kommando Nob Boom Time! now increases energy by 100 energy and energy regeneration by 0.1
    * Kommando Squad shoota range increased from 25 to 38
    * Slugga Boyz with Burnas now have the "Burn Dat House!" ability, which burns a garrisoned building while ignoring suppression and granting 30% resistance to ranged damage
    * Slugga Boy Burnas health bonus increased from 10% to 15%
    * Shoota Boy Nob Leader cost reverted from 75/20 to 75/25
    * Shoota Boy Nob Leader now increases the squad's ranged damage by 15% when the Tier 2 upgrade is also complete
    * Shoota Boy Nob Leader melee damage reduced from 30 to 20
    * Shoota Boy Big Shoota damage reduced from 33 to 29
    * Stormboyz cost reduced from 400/40 to 400/35
    * Loota deffgun medium (15-25) range damage multiplier reduced from 1.5 to 1.4
    * Loota Beamy Deffgun cost adjusted from 40/20 to 75/0
    * Weirdboy upkeep increased from 12.75 to 25.5
    * Deff Dread Rampage now also makes the unit immune to snare effects [copied from Ven. Dreadnought, enables weapon and sets speed to 8.5 every 0.1 seconds]
    * Stikkbommaz special attack damage increased from 21 to 25
    * Stikkbommaz Stikkbomb damage reduced from 67 to 58
    * Battlewagon main cannon horizontal tracking speed increased from 40 to 80

    Eldar
    * Warlock and Warp Spider Exarch Webway Gates are now infiltrated
    * Warlock Webway Gates now have an ability that provides 0.8 health regeneration for 10 seconds [should not stack]
    * Warp Spider Exarch Webway Gates now provide 0.15 energy regeneration to nearby units [should not stack]
    * Webway Gate health increased from 350 to 450
    * Farsight duration increased from 60 to 40 seconds
    * Farseer Rune Armor moved to Tier 2
    * Farseer Rune Armor cost increased from 110/30 to 150/30
    * Farseer Rune Armor now grants the Psychic Storm ability which deals melee and courage damage for 8 seconds in radius 10
    * Champion's Robe now increases health regeneration by 0.1
    * Cloak of Shadows health bonus increased from 100 to 150
    * Banshee Exarch cost decreased from 85/25 to 85/15
    * Howling Banshees cost reduced from 375 to 350
    * Dire Avenger Squad Warlock cost adjusted from 75/25 to 85/15
    * Dire Avenger Squad no longer starts with Fleet of Foot (requires Battle Equipment again)
    * Brightlance Weapon Team cost decreased from 330/0 to 300/0 (default)
    * Time Field movement speed penalty reduced from 70% to 40%
    * D-Cannon Singularity delay decreased from 7 to 6 seconds [must test this]
    * Fire Prism rotation rate increased from 125 to 200
    * Fire Prism acceleration increased from 7 to 8
    * Falcon rotation rate increased from 125 to 200
    * Falcon acceleration increased from 7 to 8

    Imperial Guard
    * Heavy Turret battlecannon and Executioner turn rate increased from 40/15 to 80/30
    * Lord General (incl. retinue) Meltaguns now have 100% moving accuracy
    * Lord General Grenade Launcher cost reduced from 100/30 to 90/30
    * Commissar Lord Carapace Armor cost reduced from 150/35 to 100/30
    * Commissar Lord Carapace Armor now grants an additional 0.25 health regeneration
    * Inquisitor Impenetrable duration reduced from 10 to 7 seconds
    * Sentinel cost reduced from 350/0 to 300/0
    * Global Resource gained from killing a Sentinel increased from 15 to 22
    * Removed Sentinel Extra Armor upgrade
    * Sentinel now has a Ground Pound upgrade that unlocks the Ground Pound ability and increases maximum health by 100; cost 50/15, build time 10 seconds
    * Sentinel Missile Launcher cost reduced from 80/40 to 80/25
    * Sentinel krak missile reload duration reduced from 6-6 to 5-5
    * Catachan Devils cost reduced from 400/40 to 350/40
    * Catachan Devils Sarge cost increased from 75/0 back to 75/25 (default)

    Chaos Space Marines
    * Reimplemented the passive Area of Effect damage on the Great Unclean One that was unintentionally removed (5 piercing damage every 1.5 seconds in radius 15)
    * Reduced movement speed of the Noxious Cloud from 4.5 to 4.0
    * Noxious Cloud cost decreased from 225 to 200 Favor
    * Bloodlust cost decreased from 250 to 200 Favor
    * Blood Sacrifice cost decreased from 200 to 175 Favor
    * Chaos Shrine cost decreased from 150/20 to 150/15
    * Chaos Shrine Population cost increased from 3 to 5 (default)
    * Chaos Shrines now have a maximum cap of 3
    * Fetid Armor health bonus increased from 100 to 150
    * Fetid Armor cost reduced from 150/30 to 125/25
    * Drain Life duration reduced from 6 to 3 seconds
    * Drain Life damage increased from 10 to 20 dps (total damage remains 60 as duration is reduced)
    * Drain Life heal increased from 20 to 50 hp/s (total heal increased from 120 to 150 as duration is reduced)
    * Chaos Heretics cost decreased from 240/0 to 230/0
    * Chaos Heretic Aspiring Champion health bonus increased from 15% to 20%
    * Noise Marines sonic blasters are now affected by suppression (cooldown increased from 0 to 0.3)
    * Noise Marine sonic blaster range increased from 22 to 26
    * Nurgle Worship health regeneration bonus decreased from 0.5 to 0.35
    * Daemon health regeneration bonus of all Worship types decreased from 1.2 to 1.0
    * Global Resource gained from killing Heretics increased from 3 to 4
    * Bloodletter cost decreased from 440/40 to 400/40
    * Bloodletter upkeep decreased from 10,2 to 7,7
    * Plague Marine cost increased from 440/40 to 500/40 (default)
    * Plague Marine bolter damage increased from 8 to 10
    * Plague Marine bolter damage over time effect increased from 4 (0.8 x 5) to 4.5 (0.9 x 5)
    * Chaos Dreadnought cost decreased from 450/120 to 410/120

    Tyranids
    * Ravener Alpha Strengthened Sinew cost reduced from 135/25 to 110/20
    * Ravener Alpha Toxic Miasma moved from Tier 2 to Tier 1
    * Ravener Alpha Toxic Miasma cost reduced from 130/20 to 100/25
    * Tyranid synapse backlash knockback type changed from ability to weapon (no retreat knockback)
    * Hormagaunts now have a charge with 8 range and +3 speed
    * Zoanthrope warp blast wind-up reduced from 2 to 1
    * Zoanthrope warp blast cooldown increased from 0 to 1
    * Zoanthrope warp blast damage reduced from 75 to 70
    * Zoanthrope health regeneration aura radius increased from 12 to 22
    * Warrior Brood cost reduced from 300/30 to 300/25
    * Tyrant Guard Population cost reduced from 15 to 12
    * Tyrant Guard build time increased from 30 to 45 seconds
    * Genestealer Brood build time reduced from 36 to 30 seconds

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    Patch 1.6

    Bug Fixes
    Attempt to Fix Battlewagon ability hitting terrain
    Attempt to Fix Weirdboy attack projectile hitting terrain
    Made adjustments to units acting up upon retreat

    Tooltip Changes
    Updated Force Commander Defend ability to show the correct radius of effect
    Force Commander Artificers Armor now indicates that he grants increased beneficial to his melee combat skill.
    Warlock Heart of Darkness indicates now that the Warlock can restore a portion of his energy at will, rather than to accumulate damage to initiate the ability


    Balance Changes

    Space Marine
    Angels of Death duration increased from 6 to 10 seconds.
    Apothecary Purification Vials no longer damage your own units and allies
    Tactical Space Marine bolter damage increased from 25 to 27
    Increased Explosive Shot damage by 5 to 8 plasma damage
    Terminator Cyclone Missile Launcher damage increased by 25%.
    Venerable Dreadnought charge no longer knockbacks retreating units
    Terminator Flamer Cleansing Flame damage reduced against Generators by a great deal
    Force Commander Cleansing Flame damage reduced against Generators by a great deal

    Chaos Space Marines
    Empyreal Abyss will not pull back retreating units into the Abyss.
    Dark Flames damage reduced and duration on flames reduced from 10 to 7s
    Dark Flames red cost reduced from 175 to 150
    Daemonic Summoning Red cost decreased from 250 to 200
    Reverted Harness of Rage health benefit back to default value (150)
    Sigil of the Rift can now only Teleport friendly units and allies
    Decreased Health on Heretics from 640 to 600
    Increased Eternal War cost from 50/15 to 60/15
    Increased Noise Marine Health from 975 to 1000
    Removed Noise Marines fire on the move (since it looked akward)
    Bloodcrusher build time increased from 48 to 50 (default retail is 40)
    Decreased Teardown time on Tzeentch Havoc from 3 to 2s
    Chaos Dreadnought Autocannon damage increased from 50 to 60
    Bloodletter damage type changed from melee_heavy to power_melee_pvp
    Reduced Bloodletter Hellblade damage from 50 to 43
    Reduced Plague Marine Explosion Damage from 80 to 50
    Reduced Plague Marine Area of Effect slow from 30% to 20%
    Reduced the amount of ball of infernos fired from Let the Galaxy Burn from 5 to 4
    Removed The Great Unclean One slow effect

    Orks
    Mekboy's Deff Gun now supresses abit faster.
    Fixed so that Shoota Boy Nobs now share damage with the rest of the squad
    'Ard Boyz reduces damage taken from all sources by 25% (from 40) (not just melee)
    Decreased Slugga Boy 'Swamp Em red from 18 to 15
    Fixed Tankbusta health so it's accurately 850 instead of 848
    Weirdboy now gets 30% more energy from nearby Ork units using WAAGH!!!
    Reduced Tankbusta upkeep to the new values
    Nobs popcap back to default values (from 20 to 24)
    Nob Leader cost reduced from 150/35 to 100/25

    Eldar
    Farseer Runes of Reaping now also increases the Farseer Energy Regeneration by 0.1
    Increased Warp Spider Exarch damage 35 to 37
    Decreased Warp Spider Exarch Improved Targeters cost from 100/35 to 100/30
    Enhanced Warp Generators now increases energy regeneration from 0.1 to 0.25
    Ranger Kinetic Shot damage increased from 10 to 15
    Heart of Darkness starts on cooldown now
    Heart of Darkness energy restored from 80 to 65
    Reverted back Dire Avenger Battle Equipment damage increase from 7% to 10% again.

    Imperial Guard
    Lord General Heavy Turret Executioner upgrade increase range from 38 to 48
    Rocket Run no longer knockbacks retreats
    Basilisk Creeping Barrage damage done reduced by 5
    Holy Brazier special attack damage increased from 50 to 60
    Scramble Multi-Laser turret now gives you 50% refund from 75%.
    Lord General Get back in the fight! regeneration effect is reduced by 50% while in-combat
    Heavy Weapon Teams can no longer repair while set-up.
    Leman Russ Vanquisher (Blue beamy of death) damage increase from 21 to 25
    Leman Russ Executioner (Shell) reload frequency reduced by 0.5 seconds
    Leman Russ Extra Plating cost increase from 50/15 to 60/20

    Tyranids
    Brood Nest has new visual effects for it's nearby health regeneration
    Hive Tyrant Bio-Plasma damage increased from 80 to 90 Plasma Cannon damage
    Carnifex Bio-Plasma damage increased from 100 to 120 Plasma Cannon damage
    Smoothened the leap over terrain for Hormagaunts.
    Genestealer cost increased from 400/45 to 450/45
    Tyrant Guard health regeneration reverted back to default
    Carnifex Charge no longer damages retreating units
    Tyrant Guard Charge no longer damages retreating units

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    Patch 1.5

    Bug Fixes;

    Improved Doombolt projectile so it no longer is hindered as much by terrain.
    Plague Marine damage modifier upon death removed
    Looted Tank Boom Shot projectile has been improved and should hit terrain less frequently

    General Changes

    Reduced all Grenade Damage on retreating units by 10%
    Improved Setup-Teams retreat mechanics
    Inferno_pvp now increased damage to buildings from 0.1 to 0.2

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    Orks

    Globals
    WAAAGHHH! now regenerates passively slightly faster
    More Dakka! cost increase from 50 to 75 and gives the squad a chance to knockback enemies.
    Call Da Boyz duration has been reduced to approximately 6 seconds.

    General
    Mekboy Turret can now be scrambled and refund 50% of the cost. No power refunded

    Warboss
    Spiky Armor cost reduced from 120/30 to 115/25
    Kustom Shoota cost changed to 120/20 from 120/35
    Kustom Big Shoota no longer decreases his melee damage
    Enhanced Kustom Shoota dps increased from 26.67 to 28.
    Now im Angry build time increased from 10 to 15s
    Boss Pole build time increased from 10 to 15s
    Trophy Rack build time increased from 10 to 15s
    Bang Bang Hammer AoE radius increased from 20 to 28

    Kommando Nob
    Reduced size to help his issues with the whole cover problems.
    Improved Camoflague improves his energy regeneration by 0.1
    Assashun's Knife cost decreased from 120/30 to 100/20
    Reduced High Explosive Shot damage from 130 to 115
    Boom Time now also effects Booby Trap & Kaboom wargear upgrades.
    * Booby Trap cooldown is reduced from 50 to 25s
    * Kaboom no longer sends the Knob flying
    * Kaboom no longer damages the Kommando Nob
    Improved Camoflague cost reduced from 100/35 to 100/30

    Mekboy
    Health increased from 540 to 600
    Decreased recharge timer on 'Ave a taste from 45 to 35s
    Proximity Mines recharge from 50 to 30s
    Charge time on Mek Mines from 20 seconds to 3.
    Reduced Beamy Loota cost from 150/40 to 125/25
    Mega Rumblah cost decreased from 200/60 to 150/50


    Slugga Boyz
    Reduced requisition cost from 300 to 270
    Nob Leader now grants 10% health
    'Swamp Em no longer makes Sluggaz immune to supression
    Lowered recharge on 'Swamp Em from 120 to 80s
    Fixed an issue that caused a unintentional weapon cooldown with the Burnaz while being supressed.

    Shoota Boyz
    Reduced Nob Leader cost from 75/25 to 70/20

    Stormboyz
    Removed power cost on Improved Rokkit Packs
    Increased Rokkit Pack requisition cost from 50 to 75
    Rokkit Boy no longer knockbacks retreating units
    Stormboy Nob Damage type changed to heavy_melee

    Lootas
    Reload Frequency changed from 8-6 to 12-10
    Rate of Fire increased from 10 to 13
    Damage done to medium range targets from 1 to 1.5
    Build Time decreased from 33 to 28s

    Tankbustas
    Increased Rokkit damage from 14 to 16
    Health increased from 800 to 850

    Stikkbommaz
    Increased health from 600 to 800
    Damage increased from 17 to 21

    Deff Dredd
    Burnaz'n'bitz cost from 180/20 to 140/20
    Build time increase from 25 to 35 seconds
    Increased rotation speed from 200 to 225

    Weirdboy
    Reduced health from 1000 to 850
    Experience upon death from 48 to 250
    Red upon death from 11 to 48

    Battlewagon
    Now only require 1 squad to be fully operational

    Looted Tank
    Boom Shot no longer disables weaponry

    Kommando Squad
    Increased movement speed to 6.5
    Kommando Shoota damage increased from 29 to 30
    Kommando Fist damage increase from 8 to 16
    Luv Da Dakka duration reduced from 7.5 seconds to 3.5
    Burna Bomb damage reduced from 20 to 15

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    Eldar

    Globals
    Webway Gates now have 25 sight radius
    Webway Gates pop reduced from 5 to 3
    Far Sight now last for 20 seconds longer
    Crack Shot duration increased slightly
    Distort Field is a unique damage damage reduction modifier
    Distort Field no longer works on retreating units

    Warlock
    Merciless Witchblade Special Attack damage reduced from 60 to 50
    Merciless Witchblade Special Attack no longer does friendly fire or knockback friendly units
    Merciless Witchspear knockdown effect has now a cooldown of 3 seconds interval.
    Witchblade of Kurnous Damage increased from 69 to 73
    Cloak of Shadows now grants you an additional +20 energy
    Shroud of Darkness ability is now duration based instead of energy. Lasts for 15s.
    Heart of Darkness no longer requires you to take damage to use.
    Pyshic Shield now grants knockback immunity

    Warp Spider Exarch
    Phase Shift no longer makes the Exarch immunte to damage. He now becomes suspectible to all damage and will take an additional 10% from all sources.
    Added visual effects for the Warp Spider Exarch during Phase Shift
    Anti-Grav Grenades no longer works on retreating units
    Changed cost on Powerblades from 140/35 to 130/30
    Cost reduced fon Improved Targeters from 130/35 to 100/35
    Heavy Death Gauge Spinners dps increase from 28 to 34
    Enhanced Warp Generators now increases energy regeneration of the WSE by 0.1

    Farseer
    Runes of Reaping reworked. Now reduces the cooldown on all your abilities by 25%. .
    Armor of the Asuryan cost decreased from 200/60 to 150/50
    Guide cooldown reduced to 30 seconds
    Fortune Armor health regeneration from 0.5 to 0.35

    Guardian/Dire Avenger Squad
    Now start with Fleet of Foot
    Guardian requisition cost reduced from 300 to 270
    Guardian Battle Equipment now increases damage output by 7%
    Guardian Battle Equipment cost increase from 50/15 to 70/15
    Guardian Warlock cost increase from 65/15 to 75/25
    Increased upkeep on Warlock from 7.8 to 10.8

    Banshees
    Reduced cost from 400 to 370
    Reduced Aspect of the Banshee from 100/25 to 85/20
    Shout now cost 50 energy to use from 10(Bug fix)
    Banshee Exarch cost from 85/15 to 85/25
    Increased Exarch upkeep from 7 to 12.8
    Reduced Experience upon death from 100 to 90

    Rangers
    Kinetic Shot now deals minor area of effect damage.
    - Decreased the energy drain from infiltration mode back to default values

    Brightlance
    Now has a toggle effect that decreases damage done by the brightlance by 75%, but targets that are shot by the Brightlance now take an additional 25% more damage from all sources. Lasts for 4 seconds. 100% accuracy
    Cost increase from 300 to 340

    Warp Spider
    Damage done to retreating units reduced significantly
    Reduced upkeep from 10.8 to 9.1 per model

    Wraithlord

    Decreased cost from 400/120 to 400/100
    Brightlance Cannon upgrade can now fire on the move

    Wraithguard
    Wraithguards can now enter webway gates
    Increased Health from 1800 to 2000

    Falcon
    Increased requisition cost from 375 to 400
    Increased rotation rate from 100 to 125
    Increased speed by 0.5

    Autarch
    Reduced movement speed by 0.5

    Seer Council
    Increased Destructor damage from 21 to 24
    Reduced red cost from 350 to 300

    Fire Prism
    Increased rotation rate from 100 to 125
    Increased movement speed to 6
    Reduced recharge timer from swapping beams from 4s to 2s
    Prism Cannon Explosive damage increased from 70 to 80
    Prism Cannon Focused damage increased from 160 to 175

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Chaos Space Marines

    Globals
    Touch of Nurgle damage done reduced from 75 to 37.5 on HERETICS
    * Touch of Nurgle applied to other units than Heretics will still do 75 damage
    * Touch of Nurgle now has a 3 second interval inbetween explosions
    Bloodlust now applies to ranged damage as well. Lowered Bloodlust damage application from 2% to 1% per entity.
    Bloodlust red decrease from 275 to 250
    Malignant Blindness should now trigger and function abit more appropiately
    Malignant Blindness cost reduced from 125 to 100
    Empyreal Abyss delay increased by 1 second
    Empyreal Abyss will no longer pull back retreating units
    Mass Warp reworked into "Warp" which teleports one individual squad to the Sorcerer's Location. THIS DOES NOT WORK ON ENEMY UNITS OR VEHICLES.
    Warp red cost is 125 and 2 minute cooldown and moved to Tier 1
    Dark Flames red increase from 125 to 175
    Dark Flames moved from Tier 1 to T2
    Obnoxious Cloud duration reduced by a medium amount
    Obnoxious Cloud red cost increase from 200 to 225
    Plague of Undeath red cost from 250 to 200

    Shrine of Chaos Gods pop reduced from 5 to 3
    Shrine of Nurgle now heals twice as fast and damages all neaby enemies. Supression removed
    Shrine of Tzeentch damage increased from 5 to 15 (Friendly Fire removed)
    Shrine of Tzeentch range decreased by 6

    Chaos Lord
    Daemonic Visage now grants an AoE damage reduction to all nearby enemy infantry by 15%
    Blood Maul Special Attack damage increased from 40 to 50
    Sweeping Doom now stuns enemies after the knockback effect for a short period of time
    Harness of Rage granta an additional +50 health
    Reduced the Combi-Flamer damage slightly

    Chaos Sorcerer

    Increased Teleport cooldown from 8 to 11 seconds
    Chains of Torment now grants 0.1 health regeneration
    Daemon Armor now grants 0.1 energy regeneration
    Daemon Shield/Orb now grants supression immunity
    Icon of Tzeentch damage reduced from 35 to 25
    Icon of Tzeentch duration increased from 10 to 16s
    Warpfire damage reduced from 100 to 90
    Rod of Warpfire ranged dps increased from 17.5 to 30 dps

    Plague Champion
    Armor of Pestilence armor effect removed & changed into Aura of Decay ability
    Reduced the speed penalty from the Armor of Pestilence wargear upgrade.
    Aura of Decay: Whenever the Plague Champion has suffered enough damage, he can unleash the Aura of Decay, dealing some AoE damage and knockback to all nearby infantry. Cooldown recharge is 60 seconds
    Base Health increased from 650 to 680
    Icon of Nurgle damage pulse to occur from 1.5 to 2.5s.

    Heretics
    Reduced cost from 260 to 240
    Reduced Aspiring Champion ranged dps from 12.8 to 3.8
    Worship Toggle effect reduced from 3 to 2s

    Chaos Space Marine
    Reduced Eternal War cost from 75/20 to 50/15
    Aspiring Champion cost reduced from 100/25 to 80/25
    Increased Ranged DPS on Aspiring Champion from 3.8 dps to 10.8
    Mark of Khorne cost increased from 75/20 to 90/30
    Mark of Khorne now increases health from 10 to 15%

    Noise Marines
    Cost reduced from 400/40 to 350/30
    Health reduced from 1050 to 975
    Increased rotation speed by 100
    Reduced pop from 15 to 12
    Can now fire on the move

    Plague Marines
    Increased bolter damage from 5 to 8
    Damage-over-time increased from 3.75 damage per second to 4
    Cost reduced from 500/40 to 440/40
    No longer chain-heals from each other's explosion (easier to focus fire)

    Chaos Dreadnought
    Cost reduced from 450/140 to 450/120
    All upgrade cost reduced down to 100/30
    Reduced build time from 50 to 40s
    Increased rotation speed from 100 to 200(+25) (Global default walker rotation speed)
    - Reduced duration on Blood Frenzy from 30 to 15s
    - Reduced recharge on Blood Frenzy from 40 to 30s
    - Frenzied Barrage damage from 10 to 20


    Bloodcrusher
    Cost increased to 350/60
    Build time increased from 40 to 48s
    - Charge no longer knockdown retreating units

    Great Unclean One
    Cost increased from 700/180 to 800/200
    Now slows all nearby infantry units and deals minor are of effect damage
    Vomit wind-up time reduced
    Vomit damage reduced
    Stomp no longer works on retreating units

    Chaos Predator

    Mark of Nurgle reworked. Now upgrades the tank to fire corrosive shells that leaves an damage over time effect in a certain area, also causing a debuff that reduces all damage done towards heavy armored units by a medium amount.

    Mark of Khorne now increases side-bolter damage output of the Predator by an additional 25%. The main autocannon is uneffected.

    Mark of Tzeentch area of effect damage has been severaly nerfed. Ideal single-target damage

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Space Marines

    Globals
    For The Emperor! Now applies to melee damage as well, can be applied to Terminator Squads
    Larramans Blessing will now restore all commanders at their HQ
    Angels of Death duration lowered from 8 to 6 seconds
    Blessing of the Omnissiah duration increased from 20s to 30s. Recharge from 150s to 100s.
    Orbital Bombardment delay decreased by 1 second

    Orbital Relay
    Reduced health from 1000 to 750
    Reduced Population on Orbital Relay from 5 to 3
    Now grants a -15% ranged damage taken while under the effect of the Orbital Relay
    Added new visuals to indicate that units are under the effects of the Orbital Relay defensive aura.

    Missile Turrets
    Reduced Build Time down to 15 seconds, cost decreased from 80/40 to 50/25

    Force Commander
    Thunderhammer chance to knockback increased from 15% to 20%
    Artificer armor now grants +5 melee skill
    Defend range increased from 10 to 22
    Increased damage on Chainsword on FC with Stormshield by a small amount.
    Increase range distance capabilties on his Teleporter Pack.
    Reduce cooldown on teleport from 45 seconds to 30s

    Apothecary
    Removed after heal-regeneration effect on his Heal ability.
    Increased Base Health from 550 to 625.
    Full-Auto Knockback no longer works on Sentinels.
    Full Auto Knockback duration reduced by 1.5s
    Sanguine Chainsword now heals you for 30 damage per hit
    Sanguine Chainsword now increases the charge distance on the Apothecary
    Reduced cost on Purification Vials to 100/25
    Combat Stimulant Equipment Health increase from 100 to 125
    Reduced Recharge on Purification Vials from 40 to 30 seconds
    Reduced Energy Cost on Purifaction Vials from 45 to 35


    Techmarine
    Reduced cost on Purification Vials to 100/25
    Reduced damage when Overcharge ability is active from 50% to 30%
    Increased Plasma Gun cost from 100/30 to 120/35
    Reduced the regeneration rate from Artificers armor from 0.5 to 0.3
    Bionics now increases health regeneration by an additional 0.1 and enhances his prowess. (+10 weapon skill and an additional 15% melee damage)
    Plasma Gun Overcharge now has a new visuals for during effect & after
    Plasma Gun Overcharge overheat duration increased by an additional 2s.
    Reduced Refractor Shield cost from 125/25 to 110/20
    Meltagun damage increased from 90 to 100
    Melta Gun now has 100% accuracy on the move
    Consecrated Bolter dps from 35 to 39
    Increased the AoE of Brothers in Arms ability to 30

    Tactical Space Marine Squad

    Tacticals have 1050 Health from 990 (This was never changed in the mod. just a pointer tho)
    Reduced Kraken Round cooldown from 50 to 40s
    Missile Launcher upgrade build time from 40 to 15 seconds
    Increased Experience upon death from 200 to 230

    Scout Squad
    Explosive Shot now deals some weapon damage
    Detection is now tied with the Infiltration upgrade
    Infiltration upgrade cost increase from 50/15 to 70/15
    Reduced Experience upon death from 130 to 100
    Fixed an issue that caused leveled scouts explosive shot to drain more energy than intended.

    Devastator Squad
    Reduced build time on Improved Targeters upgrade from 30 to 15s
    Vengeance Round recharge from 45 to 30s
    Increased Red upon death from 9 to 12
    Reduced reinforcement time on Plasma Devastators and Devastators from 8 to 6 seconds

    Assault Squad
    Increased experience upon death from 210 to 240
    Decreased build time on Thunder & Lightning from 30 to 20s

    Dreadnought
    Increased rotation speed from 200 to 225
    Build time decreased from 50 to 42s
    Multi-Melta Dreadnought Weapon Cooldown from 5 to 3.5s
    Multi-Melta now keeps the Inspirational Buff.
    Assault Cannon damage increased from 90 to 100
    Assault Cannon Barrage Ability has increased 8 range on it's max distance

    Librarian
    Reduced smite damage from 20 to 18
    Reduced cost on Staff from 100/50 to 90/30
    Veil of Time cooldown increased from 30 to 45 seconds

    Plasma Devastator
    Reduced reinforcement time on Plasma Devastators and Devastators from 8 to 6 seconds
    Projectile is no longer effected by Terrain.

    Terminators
    No longer level up
    Terminator Cyclone Missile Launcher cost changed from 100/70 to 100/50

    Predator
    Lascannon area of effect damage has been reduced significantly
    Reduced cost on Lascannon upgrade from 185/45 to 125/35
    Increased movement speed to 6.5

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Imperial Guard

    Globals
    Flare now has a better indicator if you're under the effect of it
    Basilisk Flare duration increased from 10 to 14s. Recharge duration decreased from 120 to 60.
    Loyalty to the End FX changed to indicate which units are effected by it
    Creeping Basilisk Barrage red increase to 200
    Hellfire Call-in damage done to buildings reduced tremendously
    Medical Bunker
    * Increased AoE of reinforcement & heal to 20
    * Decreased Pop from 5 to 3
    * Decreased Medi-Bunker cost from 150/50 to 125/30
    * Decreased Repair Bunker cost from 150/50 to 125/30
    * Respective upgrades decreased build time from 30 to 20

    Banewolf Call-in now also have a power cost tag of 40
    Leman Russ Call-in cost decreased to 500 requisition from 650

    Inquisitor

    Reduced special attack damage on Holy Brazier from 80 to 50
    Increased duration on Crippling Volley from 4 to 6s
    Reduced damage done by Purgatus
    Purgatus cost increase from 200/35 to 200/50
    Assail is no longer a channeled ability. Supression removed

    Lord General
    Reinforcement cost increased from 25 to 30.
    Med-Kit Energy cost increased to 60 & Cooldown of 20s
    Carapace Armor armor now also grants +20 energy.
    Grenade Launcher cost changed from 130/20 to 100/30
    Reduced cost on Flak Jacket from 150/35 to 125/30
    Reduced cost on Stabilizer from 150/35 to 125/30
    Back In The Fight now works in-combat
    Incoming! Now has a new effect

    Commissar

    Aura of Discipline changed, now heals all units that are near the Commissar passively. Similliar to the Stubborness. Cost increase from 125/35 to 150/30
    Powerfist cost decreased from 200/50 to 150/40
    Carapace Armor Execute now cost 25 energy from 35
    Bionic Eye no longer grants any additional Energy.
    Bionic Eye ability no longer makes the target immune to knockdown and knockback effects
    Reduced the speed bonus from Bionic Eye by 0.5

    Improved Armor Plating now cost 50/15 globally
    Improved Armor Plating build decrease from 30 to 15 seconds
    Reduced General Repair Rate from 20 Hp/s to 15 Hp/s


    Guardsmen
    Increased requisition cost from 230 to 240
    Reduced pop on Sergeant from 6 to 5
    Reduced pop on Commissar from 6 to 5
    Improved build rate on Heavy Cover

    Sentinels
    Reduced health from 750 to 700
    Increased cost from 330 to 350
    Sentinel Stomp no longer stuns enemies
    Reduced detection radius on sentinels from 15 to 10

    Heavy Weapons Team
    Reduced pop from 12 to 10
    Sergeant pop from 3 to 2

    Catachan Devils

    Smoke Grenade no longer reduces outgoing ranged damage
    Sergeant power cost removed
    Reduced reinforce time from 3.4 to 2.4s
    Reduced experience upon death from 110 to 100

    Stormtroopers
    Assault Kit now grants Frag Grenades. Which are highly effective distruption grenades which can be thrown from a long distance.
    Assault Kit now cost 50/15
    Melta Kit now cost 50/25
    Increased vision from 40 to 50

    Ogryns
    Reduced rotation ratio from 500 to 400
    Increased Experience on death to 240
    Red upon death from 14 to 16
    Reduced duration on Bone'Ead Charge from 10 to 7s

    Baneblade
    Reduced Health from 3750 to 3500
    Reduced Baneblade cannon range greatly
    Reduced damage done by Baneblade Cannon and Demolisher
    The Baneblade no longer disables it's weapons when executing Demolisher or Baneblade Cannon.
    Baneblade Cannon ability cooldown decreased from to 30 to 20s
    Baneblade Demolisher ability cooldown decreased from 30 to 20s

    Leman Russ
    Reduced weapon cooldown on Executioner Upgrade from 6 to 5s
    Increased Vanquisher Executioner damage from 18 to 21
    Build time decreased on both upgrades from 30 to 15 seconds

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tyranids

    Globals
    Stalk now debuffs all enemy commanders and makes them deal 10% less damage for 20 seconds. Red cost increased to 75.
    Brood Nest is now uncrushable when under construction and increases health regeneration by a small amount of all nearby units and allies
    Without Number cost decreased from 500 to 450 requistion. Red reduction from 300 to 250

    Hive Node
    Node health reduced from 700 to 500
    Node no longer benefits from the ability that reduces incoming ranged damage

    Hive Tyrant
    Rending Talons damage increased from 43 to 48
    Venom Cannon damage increased from 55 to 63
    Venom Cannon can now fire on the move
    Crushing Claws cost increased from 150/50 to 200/50
    Bonded Exoskeleton cost increased from 150/40 to 185/50
    Invulnerability Duration reduced from 12 to 9 seconds
    Improved Synapse from 120/35 to 120/25
    Removed damage on Charge
    Psyhic Scream recharge from 50 to 40s
    Bio-Plasma Projectile speed increased

    Ravener Alpha

    Tunnel build time increased from 6 seconds to 10.
    Health reduced from 720 to 650
    Burrow Trap Charge time increased by 3 seconds.
    Acid Splatter damage increased from 60 to 75
    Strengthened Sinew is a passive bonus now. Cost increase from 100/20 to 135/25
    Corrosive Devourer cost from 150/50 to 140/40
    Improved Synapse (Damage) range increased from 10 to 25

    Lictor Alpha
    Is now detectable via proxy. All of the Lictor Alpha weapons has been changed to no longer require stealth to be effective.
    Base Health increased from 630 to 700
    Vision range increased from 38 to 45
    Scything Talons cost tweak to 120/30
    Toxic Cysts grants an additional 25 Health.
    Adrenal Glands now enhances health & energy regeneration rate by 0.1
    Decreased energy gained from Adrenal Gland upgrade from 100 to 50
    Toxin Sac debuff from 50% less damage and movement speed down to 25%
    Scything Talons now grants an AoE Knockback Ability with 30 second cooldown, 60 energy cost
    Moved Menacing Visage from T2 to T3

    Hormagaunt

    Reduced cost from 300 to 270
    Adrenal Gland upgrade increase from 50/15 to 70/20
    Reduced speed benefit from Adrenal Gland
    Improved leap over cover/terrain from Adrenal Gland animation

    Termagant
    Reduced Crippling Poison range from 38 to 20

    Warrior Brood
    Can now be upgraded with Barbed Strangler and upgrade to Adrenal Glands in T2.
    CANNOT upgrade Adrenal Glands into Barbed Strangler however
    Adrenal Glands purchase now makes Warrior Broods more expensive to reinforce
    Damage increased from 18 to 21
    Adrenal Gland damage increase from 21 to 23

    Ravener Brood
    Reduced power from 45 to 40
    Build time increase from 24 to 30s
    Decreased movement speed by 1
    Enhanced Muscle Coil now gives +1 speed

    Spore Mines
    Decreased build time from 15 to 8s

    Venom Brood
    Cost increase from 300/15 to 350/10
    Ranged Synapse is now a purchaseable upgrade for the Venom Broods. Cost is 50/40

    Genestealer Brood
    Decreased cost from 500/45 to 400/45
    Reduced time on reinforcement from 6 to 4s
    Recharge on Adrenal Rush from 50 to 40s

    Zoanthrope
    Zoanthrope Focus blast now deals weapon knockback from ability knockback
    Increase health to 333
    Speed increased by 0.5
    Rotation rate increased

    Tyrant Guard

    Healing Effect is now burst rather then a continous regeneration. The healing remains unchanged however.
    Health increased from 2250 to 2500
    Damage done increased from 80 to 95

    Lictor
    Price increase from 350/50 to 400/75
    Build time increase from 20 to 29s
    Health increased from 1000 to 1250
    Capped at 1

    Carnifex
    Build time increased to 50 seconds
    Cost reduced from 600/160 to 550/150
    Reduced Weapon Cooldown on Barbed Strangler from 4 to 3
    Barbed Strangler cost increased from 90/50 to 100/50.
    Thornback cost reduced from 200/50 to 150/50

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Staff;
    Brainstormer & Ideas: Caeltos & Obviously everyone participating in playing and leaving feedback !
    Modder: Kolaris

    Special Thanks: HorusHeretic & Shuma and Hadrun for their custom models & Portraits!

    I cannot stress it enough, without Kolaris this would not have gone through, so I owe him big times. Thank you
    Last edited by Caeltos; 16th Aug 12 at 12:50 PM.

  2. #2
    Interesting, i think the last one who did something like this for DoW II was Buguba and i believe it didn't catch on, i'll be keeping a watchful eye on this.
    Pro-Skub, supporting the idea of new heroes for the Last Stand as DLC since 1967.
    Mod forum: SWR

  3. Dawn of War II Senior Member  #3
    Error Shifter Codex's Avatar
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    Funny that strengthened sinew on RA was changed back to passive. I remember when they introduced fleet of claw SS became totally invisible to RA players.
    Quote Originally Posted by Starblade
    BRB renaming thread The Dark Knight Rises Along With Our Penises

  4. #4
    If my memory serves me as well, Toxic Miasma was also ridicilousy much stronger- this was all prior 1.32 I believe as well, much have changed- and I'd love to see how the improved speed can make a difference in creating different types of Ravener Alpha builds.

  5. #5
    imo just reading the notes youve nerfed nids too much, increased costs on both their main synapse units means hard times for nid players

  6. #6
    The judgement on either or not tyranids got a buff or nerf is subjective. The overall changes makes Tyranids Commanders more efficient in direct combat, more-so then just a secondary utility belt. Whereas HT improved synapse got a cost reduction to encourage a supportive role for him. Overall, the Zoanthrope got quite a significant improvement, Genestealers are now a viable t2 melee purchase to incorporate into different matchups. Carnifexes got a buff in terms of efficency as well, and those Venom Cannons are already showing their prowess in games we've had so far.

    Bare in mind, the only real major nerf is towards their Ranged Synapse, which has always been way to cost efficient. The effiency remains, but it has a higher price- which was needed to distrupt the economy advantage tyranids had in the existing game. +5 for Adrenal Glands is not so high either, more just optimized in numbers & figures.

    Like I've said on a different occasion, is to not judge solely based on the changelogs I've made, but try to play a few games and get an general flow & idea of how the changes changed the game was played. I think about 9/10 games we've had now in-house games between respectively good players among them, we've hit over +30 minute marker around 50% time, and the rest have been inbetween 20-30. So that's a general good first impression on how the games now last for abit longer. I could go onto specifics on these things, but for now- it's looking generally good, and again; gotten some nice feedback.

    Feel free to hit up a game with a friend or something, or join the steam group and arrange some games and leave feedback & constructive criticsm here, and I'll take again; all into consideration and see what needs to be readjusted.

  7. #7
    Member retroholyfire's Avatar
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    I know it is a minor point but why not introduce some name changes for the wargear (mostly new IG wargear) that people have been bitching about? Eg Carapace armour can become Master crafted carapace armour or whatever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuma
    They had 60 million years to kill the Necrons while they slept but they were so busy having drunken sex they created the god of depravity.

  8. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #8
    Californication . . . Gorb's Avatar
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    Because that's not a point of balance, and the names are subjective? What one person would like, another may hate. And so on, and so forth.

  9. Dawn of War II Senior Member  #9
    Error Shifter Codex's Avatar
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    Oh God back then Toxic Miasma, acid splatter, ripper spam and strengthened sinew was the shit (cuz it could kill rippers! Well, any swarmy units). Then it became burrow, corrosive devourer and damage synapse... oh good times...

  10. #10
    I know it is a minor point but why not introduce some name changes for the wargear (mostly new IG wargear) that people have been bitching about? Eg Carapace armour can become Master crafted carapace armour or whatever.
    Name Changes are low priority changes as you might have guessed, but it's also something I MIGHT adjust in the future.

  11. #11
    Quick comment on call da boyz, the changes you made would seem to make it rather useless on anything but nobs now. In the vanilla game, you have to reinforce at least 11 shoota/slugga models to get your req back, and even then they tend to get shot down as they emerge piecemeal from the fog of war (especially sluggas, and then the nob gets stranded by himself and killed ). A single reinforcement basically makes it useful only for avoiding squad wipes i.e. your boys are retreating through a big melee mass or global nuke. Personally, I'd just retain the constant reinforce, make it not work on nobs, and maybe bump the req down a bit (250 -> 200).

    The kommando changes are interesting... is the burna bomb nerf to the initial explosion or the DoT?

    Ork detection for only 15 power???
    Add me on Steam - ArbitUH. Don't EVEN bother adding me on GFWL

    Where's me squig ointment reference in my sig... oh

  12. #12
    Existing Call Da Boyz is an guaranteed win in a big skirmish, it's way to powerful and you could actually re-accumulate more req then you actually lose depending on the size of the skirmish. See it as a more or less instant Drop Pod with a great Waagh Effect ontop of it, it still has the same outcome effect, but has more of abit of an economical hit on your army incase it doesnt' pay off. Call Da Boyz could be abused in a fashion to en-mass an big ork army in the early-game, keep the pressure up & Call Da Boyz and spend less requisition then actually somewhat needed. Let-alone, back to the first arguement > win a big fight. Even default Stormboyz with Call Da Boyz in nature is to powerful with an endless stream of Bomma Boyz, and etc; it just doesnt' really work out that great.

    Bare in mind also the passive Waaagh regeneration was increased ontop the change, so you're not tasked to lose/kill as many models as you are tasked to do.

    The kommando changes are interesting... is the burna bomb nerf to the initial explosion or the DoT?
    It'll only be for the damage over time, the changes I want to Kommandos is to make them a strong crowd control unit (altho, existing is to powerful if you consider the t2 call-in on knob) so I wanted to tune them down, and bring them more in as an efficient firing/melee capability squad, rather then the utility-belt they're more or less now. The speed change is to make them efficient cappers in general, and leave the sluggaz for the main big brawling if needed. Simply experimenting on them, will see how they turn out.

    Ork detection for only 15 power???
    Well, the change was not primariyl as a detector change- but more or less to give Orks an "timing" purchase for their first engagement. Which is also why I'm reverting Battle Equipment for GU's down to 15 power, so they can invest in them for their first big skirmish. The exception I'm making also is to allow banshees to get it an timing purchase as well, which will make eldar viability in purchase order different depending on how they want to deal with an engagement.

    In most cases, you're going to see both a Shoota Nob + a Big Shoota upgrade to compete as a walking viable-detecting squad, so the overall investment in existing shape would be 45 power cost, which is quite steep- since it's also not a persistant upgrade. Altho, scout sergeants share the same fate, I'm not entirely sure how I want to deal with them, for now; they're unchanged.

    Also, with the reduction on Sluggaz down to 270, I took some neccasary precautions to make sure sluggaz don't become an overdominant build in certain matchups (specifically ork vs ork) so having Nob Leaders in shoota squads can really put the hurt onto incoming sluggaz. Mostly just to offer different types of counters, and not a dominant build over anything else. The more viability offers to counter things, the better- and it doesn't dumb down the game and it's sense of FoTM Builds.

  13. #13
    Member WNxBizzie's Avatar
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    The Larraman's nerf isn't as I thought it'd be best, but I'll download this mod and be sure to play it. You got a decent estimate on the playerbase of it yet Caeltos?
    Gonna advertise this to my clan. Would be nice to play a freshly balanced game.

    EDIT: Very vague installer.

    Retribution folder in My Games or in Program Files?
    After that what do I do? Just double click on the Ret shortcut on my Desktop? Add a Non-Steam Product to my Steam?
    Last edited by WNxBizzie; 13th May 11 at 11:26 AM.

    "To each of us falls a task. And all the Emperor requires of us Guardsmen is that we stand the line and die fighting. It is we do best. We die standing." -General Sturnn, 412 Cadian

  14. #14
    Looks good, I hope the mod goes well for you.
    KHORNE - When life gives you lemons.......BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!!!!!

  15. Dawn of War II Senior Member  #15
    Error Shifter Codex's Avatar
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    Don't forget to join the group so we can get games together to play this thing

  16. #16
    The Larraman's nerf isn't as I thought it'd be best, but I'll download this mod and be sure to play it. You got a decent estimate on the playerbase of it yet Caeltos?
    Gonna advertise this to my clan. Would be nice to play a freshly balanced game.
    I consider the removal of his after-heal regeneration quite big of a change, so I wouldn't want to overstep my boundaries to much on the Larramans Blessing. The actual change I wanted was not possible to accomplish, so a simple cost increase would have to do. It might get furthermore changed in the future tho, depending on the outcome.

    EDIT: Very vague installer.

    Retribution folder in My Games or in Program Files?
    Program Files. Always Program Files for modifications.

    After that what do I do? Just double click on the Ret shortcut on my Desktop? Add a Non-Steam Product to my Steam?
    If you have followed the installer propertly, you can do this multiple ways; The way I do is;
    Right Click on DoW2 ret on steam - > Properties -> Launch Settings and type in(copy paste works as well) -dev -modname Caeltos_Balance_Mod

    Start the game, and you're good to go. Remove the -dev -modname Caeltos_Balance_Mod from launch settings if you wish to play the default game. There's another way to do with game shortcuts, but I never managed to get that part to work.

    Looks good, I hope the mod goes well for you.
    Thank you, iirc you've got a mod yourself right? If so, best of luck to you as well! =)

  17. #17
    Member Phoenixlight's Avatar
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    A lot of good changes made but I'm surprised that you didn't fix Ork A.V. by giving them a snare, reducing tankbusta upkeep and reducing the price of the upgrade for the beamy deff gun. Is the ability you added for the brightlance the same as the beam scorch ability it used to have? The only change i don't like is the guardian warlock cost, 20 power would have been better.

  18. #18
    Is the ability you added for the brightlance the same as the beam scorch ability it used to have?
    Yes, I thought it would give Brightlance abit more niché then just a flat-out 1 way pony. Whereas devastators and etc have their uses in the early-game, and tankbustas with their barrage and excelled damage output. Bare in mind, they fire multiple rockets and are a bunch of orks, so the +2 is quite a significant damage output. They're now really "tankbustas". At the moment, Orks have sheer brute over crowd control against vehicles/walkers. Let-alone, I gave Lootas a much strong early-game prescence and utility with damage modifer changes against distances and misc other changes; Which in t2 can turn into Beamy Lootas, which are excellent damage dealers.

  19. #19
    Member WNxBizzie's Avatar
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    I'm sorry Caeltos, but some of these are simply terrible changes.

    Reduced Tic cost?
    Buffing the Baneblade?
    Daemonic Visage is now simply OTT.

    I'm going to have to get proper experience with the other patches to be sure but I know those 3 are bad choices for certain.
    Liked what you did with the Nurgle Pred though.

  20. #20
    Daemonic Visage is now simply OTT.
    Daemonic Visage is -10% damage done only and no longer applies any stacks through melee kills. It's still a much worse Trophy Rack. Let-alone, it's a purchase that's rarely seen and having the option to invest in it, is an economical purchase you're going to have to factor.From 0 into the actual price is quite significant, much so- if the wargear doesn't come off with the likeable outcome. However, if it's deemed to powerful I'll reduce the AoE, which seems abit to big at the moment.

    Buffing the Baneblade?
    It does considerably less damage now as well. It no longer one-shots vehicles, and you're able to do on-field repairs to compete vs the Baneblade. If you're blobbed, the effects of the baneblade is much less devastating, and ontop of it- if you have good spread on your units, the lone models will suffer less damage, and more prone to surviving the outcome. It's still an strong ability nontheless. Setup-teams can now de-setup without getting instant gibbed.

    Reduced Tic cost?
    260 Heretics with 16 per model count was still slightly to much, and the idea of having more then +2 on the field diminished and completely faded away with the change. Again, CSM's with AC, Noise Marines and other misc units are also promoted for useage, and not heretic-spam. 240 heretics simply cut the reinforcement cost down by 1 (15 instead of 16) and initial cost by -20.

    I'll repeat myself one more time; Give me some constructive feedback on why they're bad (Instead of just, X and Y is bad). Feel free to supply with a replay so the factor of mistakes made can taken into consideration)

  21. #21
    Should to admit that mod looks pretty nice. Do u plan any kind of tweaks to fc's thunder hammer? And link for downloading doesn't work =\
    p.s. downloading =)
    Last edited by ImPEREZ; 14th May 11 at 5:14 AM. Reason: megaupload returned to work

  22. #22
    Member dtitov's Avatar
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    wow the mod looks pretty fantastic. Do you think PC could stand to gain some kind of non ranged weapon upgrade to be able to switch out of melee ones? Perhaps as a T3 option?(i also think other chaos commanders would benefit from more t3 wargear).
    Animator and a hobby modeller. Reel & contact: http://www.titovdenis.com

  23. #23
    Next Patch Teases;

    Wargear Focused.
    Scouts detection no longer tied to Sergeant.
    Misc Turrets/Shrines/Relays gets a buff.
    Reverts on certain changes due to unwanted outcome.

    No ETA on it yet. Needs more testing.

    Do you think PC could stand to gain some kind of non ranged weapon upgrade to be able to switch out of melee ones? Perhaps as a T3 option?
    Surely you mean non-melee weapon upgrade? I don't know about it just yet. It's an intresting idea, and the Mek got some love on that end, whereas PC bit the dust. Will see, not making promises tho.

    Do u plan any kind of tweaks to fc's thunder hammer?
    As it stands now, the knockback effect is getting an additional 5% added ontop of it, with a 2.5 dps increase, that's all. Teleporter CD going down (from 45 to 30 lol)

  24. #24
    Thoughts on the Touch of Nurgle change? I'm not really sure what it accomplishes.

    Any chance of nerfing the damage/knockback on Heretics but buffing it on other units?

  25. #25
    Goal was to stop chain explosions annihalting and having to much of an impact, whileas not trying to remove the effiency on using it on other units.

    Any chance of nerfing the damage/knockback on Heretics but buffing it on other units?
    If it's doable, it's an intresting concept.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Caeltos
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolaris
    Any chance of nerfing the damage/knockback on Heretics but buffing it on other units?
    If it's doable, it's an intresting concept.
    Could it be tied to maximum HP maybe?

  27. #27
    Been hard at work with the upcoming patchnotes. Additional rotation speed on walkers/vehicles are getting adjusted to make them more manuverable. I dont' know why Relic decided to give the Chaos Dreadnougth a rotation speed of 100, whereas all other walkers in the game are at 200. And here I thought the moving issue with dreadnoughts was tied with pathfinding.

  28. #28
    Update released. Will fix some typos and misc information on the updated patch which did not go through, specifically the Drop Pod.

  29. #29
    I especially like the changes to my OTT venom broods, they really were unfairly inexpensive with reric's decrease of their cost to 10 power. I like the adrenal gland cost upgrade as well. I would like if HT took more than 1 hand to play, he has a passive ability as his starting one unlike every other commander and most of his wargear's are either passive or don't require very much timing/game sense to use.

    The only change I don't like is terminators not being able to level up anymore, conceptually, because every unit levels up. If the point was because lv 4 terms are far too easy to get and too strong, then I would think that nerfing their level 1 stats and or perhaps their experience gain would be in order.

    Would love if you'd give warlock's wargears some more love. Also, did you ninja change his merciless witch blade to stop hurting (read: killing) friendly units (like your own shees)? Conceptually, I think that heart of darkness is kind of weak (or perhaps improved medical improvement is OTT) because it requires micro to give back less energy than the capacity that some wargears give passively. Also champ's robe bubble not giving knockback immunity is fail and is there any chance that warlock will be getting his leap back (perhaps during providence invul)?

    Haven't gotten paired up with you yet, still hungering for a rematch!

    -WNxsaviour

  30. #30
    I made a wall of text and now it's gone. I'm sad, and I'll make a short version to compensate. Sorry that it's not elaborate, but I cba to spend another 30 minutes :P

    - Terminators not leveling; Leveling effiency scaled down vs no levels, dunno. Terminators in a sense where to strong of a unit, and I think they're pretty spot on for their cost + performance. I was abit pondering the decision on this from the get-go, but that's why I implemented the change to see where it went. It's so-so for now, but I'd like to see it more in play. Not all to happy tho with the significance of upkeep they bring along with their hefty price, since they completely hinder any more productions by the time they are fielded, more or less.

    - Warlock;
    His Wargear is getting looked at, specifically the Merciless Witchblade's 2x Special Attack so it's getting reduced (No friendly fire ontop of it, unless it was fixed by Kolaris, which you seem to indicate? Must have gone under my radar), otherwise the Kurnous Blade is getting abit of a buff in it's damage department, so it's less about it's ability, but more what it brings to the table in melee fights. It's not super duper high amount, so don't worry. Bubble not granting immunity knockback is a bug, I think the Inquisitior has the same issue.

    - Hive Tyrant;
    His getting a rotation increase due to his clumsy nature (still not to high) and rending talons, venom cannon both recieving a buff so the Crushing Claws doesn't 100% overshadow both of them anymore.

    - Apothecary;
    Getting buffed. He does far to less stellar in combatant confrontations eventho with his buff to his health pool. I made a very constructive and elaborate on the changes I've made to him, but it's all gone. So this is the short version. Vials improved in it's useage (not buffed in statistics in terms of damage or anything, just recharge/cost of ability). I'm looking forward to this one, and I think it ended up really nice.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Caeltos View Post
    Kommando Nob
    - Reduced his size to improve coverfinding

    I didn't try the mod yet, but I imagine this change also greatly improves his pathfinding ?
    GFWL : GuruSkippy

  32. #32
    Not sure how much it actually effects pathfinding, I would make a bold guess and say yes, means he is bound to get stuck less in misc terrain when heading towards places and whatnot.

  33. #33
    just a bunch of consturctive stuff fell free to ignore it or not
    just my pov on some things

    Angels of Death duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds.
    [its atm pretty lame for what it cost in comparison to nearly every other t2 global why nerf it so much without reducing costs? and make it more often usable in return it isnt mostly a battle changer and even if u mostly give up to use any other usefull global to use in near future with 250 red cost]

    Worship Toggle reduced from 3s to 2s.
    [well tbh i dont see why this change is set it removes the dangerous factor for whorshipping nearly completly its a change for getting away cheap instead of think were and when to whorship]

    Lord General
    Reinforcement cost increased from 25 to 30.
    [his rutine is pretty useless except if u buff it it is a huge req drain already in the game i tend to not even upgrade it since it saves u by a lot requsition]

    Assashun's Knife cost decreased from 120/30 to 100/20
    [ do u removed the abillty to gib tacticals with it? or csm its pretty hardcore to everytime snipe 66 or more requisition or retreat kill]



    Stikkbommaz
    Increased base health from 600 to 800.
    [i agree with that but what about the cost there abilltys and there usabillity is huge and should be reflectet in its costs]

    Wiredboy
    [knockback should be removed or u should someway change him the damage reduction is a pointer in the right direction but to me not enough since he counters setup teams and is very very versatile wich should be reflectet in his costs]

    Warrior Brood
    Health decreased from 1080 to 990 Cost tweak from 300/30 to 340/20 Barbed Strangler cost changed to only 60 requisition
    [should be totally overhauled since bswb counter surpression and are in the area of jumptroops but i would find it hilariuos spamming 3 warriors and and say haha get me pls try it :3
    and the other thing is that warriors are even vanilla a very durable unit if u would remove maybe the knockback it would be a bit balanced]

    deff dread flamer
    [is unchanged this thing is just redicules burn down entire farm in seconds and the go flame base turrets in 2-3 vollys
    should be changed too if u want call it balance mod ]


    Catachan Devils
    - Smoke Grenade no longer reduces outgoing ranged damage
    [its a good idea but what is with the Razorback dont he deserv the same buff or was it already changed by reric?]

    Farseer
    -Guide cooldown reduced to 30 seconds
    [its too low for me since u could nerly in every engagement spam it wich is again a nobrainer and an force multiplyer banshees on crack (guide) and fortune rape alot of stuff not that shees didnt rape]

    Banshee exarch
    [why not the speed buff removed because it buffs there normal speed up to faster as retreat speed]

    farseer mindwar
    [did u touch mind war its hilarious easy to snipe stuff or retreat kill]

    Apoth
    [just an idea for apoth remove sanguine and totally rework it and set the state of power axe t1 back would solve the survivabillty and will be in conjunktion with the heal nerf a fair deal]

    Walkers i feel personally they are far to costly even now in this mod anybody remind the times were a walker costet 90 energy?

    Wraithlord
    [is a bit to cheap since he is i would call it beneath hug bot the best t2 walker in the game wich regens even hp
    or adapt the cost of his upgrades to be more costly and scales very well into t3 with his hp regenerativ abillity]

    Hugbot
    every makrupgrade 100/20
    [missle launscher should be cost far more then 100/20 its the counter vs vehicle and u can easy handed walk over a vehicle and it only as i remind reduced the melee dps by a margin of 10
    its another reason why chaos can stay t2 while other races have t3 units]

    Why reduce nearly every walker wargear but totally ignore the sm walker stuff it is okish but suffer since they all reduce melee dps by half as i remind wich isnt the case with any other walkertype?

    sidenote
    i didnt play this mod if some things were inaccurate feel free to ignore them or tell me how it was right
    feel free to lynch me since iam a bad guy and relic wont improve this game if not some ppl cry to change the gamecode untill its unexploitable since otherwise they wont do anything.

  34. #34
    [its atm pretty lame for what it cost in comparison to nearly every other t2 global why nerf it so much without reducing costs? and make it more often usable in return it isnt mostly a battle changer and even if u mostly give up to use any other usefull global to use in near future with 250 red cost]
    The main concern is how much of an impact invulnerability grants you. This is a global invulnerability, and having it last for such a significantly long period if squite scary, and can really turn a battle completely around. No other races really have the significant global, without some sort of drawback to it. Per say, that's also why the Call Da Boyz also recieved a nerf, since it's essentially a "I win this fight, and you can't do anything about it". You cannot stop invulnerability, and that's genuially not so good.

    [well tbh i dont see why this change is set it removes the dangerous factor for whorshipping nearly completly its a change for getting away cheap instead of think were and when to whorship]
    Well, this genuialy makes it more smoother and encourages the useage of worship, let-alone the dangerous missclicks can be devastating. This is more or less an improvement in play, more so in any other effect. As it stands now, it feels really smooth and good responsiveness from the heretics, and I'm rather pleased with how it turned out.

    [his rutine is pretty useless except if u buff it it is a huge req drain already in the game i tend to not even upgrade it since it saves u by a lot requsition]
    This is somewhat of a torn issue, the +5 significance of per model lost of the retinue isn't THAT big of a deal, and if you take so many losses that it ultimately leads up to an devastating economical loss, you're not doing it right from the get-go. It's a very very minor change.

    [ do u removed the abillty to gib tacticals with it? or csm its pretty hardcore to everytime snipe 66 or more requisition or retreat kill]
    I think that's pretty much regardless a nice concept tho, chaos shouldnt' struggle all that much with the corresponding changes that were made, and the cheaper scout sergeants are more viable in order to spot the gibness of an invis knob approaching and ruining your day. Overall, just a more viable purchase in terms of it's cost change.

    Why reduce nearly every walker wargear but totally ignore the sm walker stuff
    I didn't. The Melta Dread retains the Inpsirational buff & fires more frequently to punish close-combat quarters, whereas in vanilla- you can dodge the punishment it has to offer far to easy, due to it's clunky movement speed & slow firing rate, and decently okayish damage.

    [i agree with that but what about the cost there abilltys and there usabillity is huge and should be reflectet in its costs]
    It depends, I'd like to see more where the initial change of Stikkbommaz really heads off once more games have been played.

    [knockback should be removed or u should someway change him the damage reduction is a pointer in the right direction but to me not enough since he counters setup teams and is very very versatile wich should be reflectet in his costs]
    I've got some more plans for the Weirdboy in the upcoming patch, so I'm aware of the state of the unit itself. The initial corresponding changes were just a minor tweak, altho some issues remains. I don't think neccasarily a knockback removal will be good, since that really really takes away alot of the crowd control effect which Orks somewhat lack, unless you field certain units in the existing army composition.

    [should be totally overhauled since bswb counter surpression and are in the area of jumptroops but i would find it hilariuos spamming 3 warriors and and say haha get me pls try it :3
    and the other thing is that warriors are even vanilla a very durable unit if u would remove maybe the knockback it would be a bit balanced]
    Warriors are back to their initial cost now, and I doubt spamming warriors would be any good idea, since they're more fragile and easier to take down and cause an economical effect on the enemy. However, the change to the genestealers in particular makes them more viable to implement into builds, so therefor the AGWarriors needs to be somewhat of an easier target to take down. I'm actually making an adjustment to this squad in the next update, because I'm somewhat torn again, on the issue. =]

    [is unchanged this thing is just redicules burn down entire farm in seconds and the go flame base turrets in 2-3 vollys
    should be changed too if u want call it balance mod ]
    It'll need adjustment in it's weapon cooldown and changes and etc; hefty changes that can have an very large impact on the units it's meant to hunt down and kill and etc; It's not also a very common issue, but nevertheless- a possible outcome that can occur. Altho, I do believe if you've got a dredd killing your base turrets, you're already losing the game. It's just pouring some salt in the wound.

    [its a good idea but what is with the Razorback dont he deserv the same buff or was it already changed by reric?]
    I think Kolaris got back to me on this, and this is something that's actually already in-effect, altho I'm unsure of it.

    [its too low for me since u could nerly in every engagement spam it wich is again a nobrainer and an force multiplyer banshees on crack (guide) and fortune rape alot of stuff not that shees didnt rape]
    Altho, spamming guide opens up the issue of a possible energy starvation- and on smaller maps it might not be an re-occuring issue. However, it's possibly an issue more on the larger maps.

    [why not the speed buff removed because it buffs there normal speed up to faster as retreat speed]
    Speed buff removal is a very significant nerf, and the general concensus is how eldar's general wargear purchases are very cheap in-comparison to other races, so they've brought more on par with other races. It's a glaring issue however tho that they're good at hunting down retreating units, but I'd like to see if banshees are still in the same position as they previously were.

    [just an idea for apoth remove sanguine and totally rework it and set the state of power axe t1 back would solve the survivabillty and will be in conjunktion with the heal nerf a fair deal]
    Sanguine actually works really well for an early-game battlefield prescence and staying power now, and the extra range gives you the edge of closing the gap better & whatnot, it's however, a non-excellent scaling weapon- so the price is relatively cheap, but very effienct in the early-game, so it's abit of a trade-off in a sense, but I'm looking at it for more elaborate testing tho however.

    [is a bit to cheap since he is i would call it beneath hug bot the best t2 walker in the game wich regens even hp
    or adapt the cost of his upgrades to be more costly and scales very well into t3 with his hp regenerativ abillity]
    However, keep in mind that other misc-wargear got a price increase & tweaks, so the change itself can also be very insignificant, however- with a less investment in t1, you can field a more easier t2 walker, altho- it's still significant enough to allow the opponent to field the neccasary counters. It's the broad-perspective that comes into play, not a tunnelvision process behind it.

    [missle launscher should be cost far more then 100/20 its the counter vs vehicle and u can easy handed walk over a vehicle and it only as i remind reduced the melee dps by a margin of 10
    its another reason why chaos can stay t2 while other races have t3 units]
    The prices are brought back to 100/30 (latest) now from 100/20 (initial), the initial prices were quite steep, and walkers were really not all that dominant or very super efficient. The counters are clear, and very effective when it comes to fighting off walkers, and cheaper. The gap is closer to their counters now, altho still counter > walker in a sense in it's cost effiency. T3 is more appealing now with it's corresponding buffs/nerf to the MoT Predator to make it a more viable purchase, and safer-play instead of a very clear and linear & predictable build.

    These are some of the thought process and opinions on why I made the changes, it's also somewhat of a general "concensus" that was made by other players that are participating in the balance process. Every opinion matters, but I'd encourage you to play the game and have a fun test runs and see what you can make out of it. However, do not judge it entirely & completely on the first game you play, and look things into perspective, per say if there were glaring missplays & outplays and whatnot, and if it's an even-game in a sense, but still "balance" issues, i'd like to know. Those are things that really grab my attention and fuel the fire to enhance the modification.
    Last edited by Caeltos; 6th Jun 11 at 5:57 PM.

  35. #35
    as state before it was a bit much input to read on first sight

    the angels of death is a bit tricky i meant just with droppod that easy to pull of in regards to vanilla dow2:r i think angels of death will be superseeded since u can stay with a full reinforce longer on the field as 6 seconds only way i see angels of death superseeded is to prevent retreat kill (wich is immenent) of 1-2 key squads wich is dependend on your playstile because u wont mostly not beeing in this situation since u play apoth.

    and yeah ur right if i remind me correct the whorshiping can be really devastaing t2 upwards as i rethought about it and i remebered chokos all so famous 2 ws
    + lag = dead cultist wich you could do nothin about, just thought about the perfect "game" wich sadly u wont get performance wise.


    but what interests me whats your opinion to the others points u dont need to argue just a yay or nay or maybe so i see more from your pov and can bring up points for or against or just to understand in wich direction u finally want to pull this mod wich i see can prosper to real balance patch someday
    Last edited by n8crawler; 6th Jun 11 at 4:38 PM.

  36. #36
    I've updated my previous post with all the opinions and general response to your input. =]

  37. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #37
    Californication . . . Gorb's Avatar
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    n8crawler, just a friendly note. If you seriously want to involve yourself with commenting on the balance of this thread, you should perhaps play the mod.

  38. #38
    well iam open to sum games gorb if u reinstall dow2! and the cpu is no match so duh
    and its well easy to speak about balance if i mainly just adressed stuff wich is broken in vanilla and the rest i spoke of is glaring to see
    i still have an hilarious 3k h of dow2 vanilla and cr behind me. 2k h of 1vs1 in them so i can say that i have a little knowledge about the game.
    with ret an additional 1k i think, focussing on 1vs1 and i played with every race and every commander not only 1 in the whole time.

  39. #39
    sounds like no real-life afterall...
    3k hours is a bit overdone in my eyes...but well if you say so. take a cookie and be happy.
    LSA|Eternal

  40. #40
    Heretics upgraded with GL and AC: anything that is not the range of Grenade Launcher comes forward has range in the appropriate. It's great when the AC dies first. Detection should be when the AC dies. Maybe they should just die squad leaders last.

  41. #41
    EDIt: Freakin' hate quotes here...what does "Reply" even do?

    I didn't try the mod yet, but I imagine this change also greatly improves his pathfinding ?
    Yes, he can fit through narrow areas much easier and maneuvers around cover faster. Plus, there was a bunch of cover he couldn't use because he couldn't get close enough to it.

    The only downside is he "clips" a lot, his big model + getting too close to things looks funny. But it's only an aesthetical problem.

    I didn't fix the MWB special, nor did I change the Razorback/K-Nob smoke. Also, I forgot to revert the Chimera cost.

    And last thing, since I'm not sure Caeltos is clear on what I ended up doing, Scout Detection is now tied to Infiltration Training rather than the Sergeant. Also, Larraman's Blessing is back to its old cost but revives at the HQ.

  42. #42
    And last thing, since I'm not sure Caeltos is clear on what I ended up doing, Scout Detection is now tied to Infiltration Training rather than the Sergeant. Also, Larraman's Blessing is back to its old cost but revives at the HQ.
    Ah yes, I was meant to change that post, but I never got around to it. But least that's clarified here :3

  43. #43
    And neither have any of the issues I talked to you about, figured out some work arounds at the last second.

    There might be other, new issues I'm not aware of though. As I said they were work arounds.

    But unlikely.

  44. #44
    You're right, the Larramans Blessing is accurate to the 1st patchnotes now, not the placeholder (150/175red). Nice one.

    Hit me up on steam when you can btw, or I'll do it. :}

  45. #45
    I think the reason why no one buys the range HT wargear is because it doesn't really synergize with his other options as well as a melee weapon (bubble, charge, invul, scream thing)

    As for his 1st melee weapon, it's a damned good weapon, almost any other melee hero would buy that thing since it's cheap and 75 dps (almost on par with most t2s/higher than quite a few), the problem is as HT you can skip t1 so no point.

    Imo HT is fine as is (maybe some nerfs needed still), he doesn't need buffs to those weapons unless he is made to be more t1 dependant/less invulnerable,

    also can you guys rip DOW1 sound files for seer council so they don't talk like guardians?

  46. #46
    Member Fenra's Avatar
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    Caeltos, I have a quick offerring to work on in changing the Ork's AV lineup (in this case, make a upgrade for what seems to be a lackluster unit)

    An Ork buddy of mine on L2P had some issues with finding good AV outside of tankbustas, which, for all intents, are great in their role to some degree, but still remains vulnerable at times to melee and knockback abilities like AC dread. The post is here on the L2P forums, integrating a new "Snazz Gun" upgrade for the Kommandos. Just curious if anyone here thinks it has any merit, given that most of Ork T3 requires Nobz for everything.

  47. #47
    Update: Preview Patchnote is up.

    Update#2: New Patch applied.
    Last edited by Caeltos; 27th Jun 11 at 4:14 PM.

  48. #48
    would it be possible to set rally points from khorne shrines?

    also is phase shift cheese fixed? i haven't played a wse yet so . . .

    also any chance wl getting his leap back?

    otherwise looking good

    ----------

    would it be possible to set rally points from khorne shrines?

    also is phase shift cheese fixed? i haven't played a wse yet so . . .



    otherwise looking good

  49. #49
    would it be possible to set rally points from khorne shrines?
    I don't know about that, but I'll ask Kolaris if it's doable, if it will get implemented is another story tho.

    also is phase shift cheese fixed? i haven't played a wse yet so . . .
    With the change that Relic made, the cheese of Phase Shift has died out quite significantly. It's more reliant on good play & timings, so it's not been changed.

    also any chance wl getting his leap back?
    The leap itself might return, but not the knockdown effect of it. There's several issues that might come with this, per say; If he leaps he will miss an opportunity to kill an retreating target, because he decides not to charge and hit, instead he will leap & the target will be uneffected by the knockdown effect, and will escape without any issues. Besides, the leap itself with a knockdown can be abused in a fashion that it will continously knockdown and flee from meleeing targets. This was more of a common trait in vanilla.

  50. #50
    I have a humble suggestion: nerf ork slugga and shoota damage versus gens, and nerf big shoota damage versus gens and heavy inf. Right now either BS or burnas gives you easy gen bashing power, and the basic ork units can bash gens just fine without investment. SM have to buy flamers, for example, to bash gens early on, whereas orkz can go either big shootas OR burnas and just melt troops and gens with impunity. It would be interesting to play vs orkz who had to make the strategic choice in T1 whether they want to go for ranged support with BS or gen bashing/building clearing with burnas.

    Right now it just feels like orkz are easy mode, they have the best offense in the game by far and it would be interesting to bring them down to the level of other races and see what it's like to have harder choices to make. Big shootas also make a mockery or heavy armor, whereas the burna-armed sluggas should really be the choice here (power weapons and all that).

    TL,DR version: Big shootas are too good versus gen farms and heavy inf, they are stealing the burna's thunder, and making SM/CSM vs Orkz matchups unfair and unfun.

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