IG: No Catachans?

[Ceorl]

So I've worked my way up to a higher level of player (TS 2100-2300) and recently fought, and lost to, a TS 2400 player. Only once have I seen an IG player builds Cats and he was the one I beat. Everyone else utilizes a three GM, one Sentinel build regardless of hero.

So I have to ask, as a non-IG player, is something wrong with the Catachans unit? It appears that the power cost is too high for players who prefer to avoid most power costs in order to fast tech into tier 2.

[Bori]

Many reasons.

expensive
frail and easily nullified with focussed fire
Sents are not only cheaper but do it better. cats are mainly used for Anti melee or HWT stunner. The sent does this just as well and for far less.
is your main faction orc? then their is no reason for a ig player to buy cat's.
Cats are only good vs the SM
Cats only function well in cramped area;s like outer reaches or green tooth jungle.

[Vintage]

Catachans were overnerfed into oblivion and they are a terrible unit now. I do not recommend getting them. You are better off buying hero wargear and a HWT then going T2.

[Arbit]

* Catachan Devils Explosive Shot Increase energy cost to 50
* Catachan Devils Ol Reliable energy cost reduce to 55
* Catachan Devils Shogun Damage reduce from 25 to 20
* Catachan Devils Upkeep reduced from 0.01275 to 0.0085

Energy costs were 40 and 45 previously, right? I believe that's a typo regarding the "reduction" on Ol Reliable cost.

I was thinking it was a metagame shift to a low power T1, but yeah, that was a pretty stiff nerf.

[Troubleshooter]

I dunno... I was getting some decent results from demo-cats (I should trade mark that) but the heavy power investment in T1 wasn't enough to cover capabilities that are badly needed from wargear and HWT. So basically you get cata's in addition to other things, not instead of other things... and for IG that's a seriously deep T1 power expense.

Still, I love the LOS provided by det packs, and used in pairs they can really put the hurt on a ninja capping squad while you're blobbed up elsewhere.

Besides, IG has a really strong zero power profile in T1 (maybe some wargear, but almost not needed) that players are whoring for all its worth.

[Ceorl]

That's too bad. Perhaps Cats need a boost then? Or some other IG metagame change to prevent the tier 2 rush?

[CommissarRezail]

ONly thing that prevent me from using them is the failness, you lose a whole squad of cats in retreat. None of the nerfs really plays a part in it, at least for me it just they are frail. They do a good job being asm killers when they jump into my gm cloud, their shot gun stun, stunning the asm allow me to shot them down.

Cats in melee can beat full squad of tacs, beat unupgraded asm , and some heroes in melee.

Cats beat turret in melee, cat can kill vehicles in melee. Not melee walker vehicle. Stuff like razor backs, or preds, if you can get them behind the tanks yes they will kill it pretty fast.

Demo charge can kill scouts taking your req.

That melta gun acts as a nice av support. Considering if all you have is missle sent or just lg with melta gun.

The shot guns and the super shot gun you get with the demo man does nice damage on most infantry. I mean they shot gun down scouts and tacs fairly nicly.

Smoke on enemy range blobs is a blessing specifically hwt etc.

Just that they die really really really fast, if you don't pay attention to them and chance of living while in retreat with 4 members is blew 50 percent. Frailty.

I mean i just lose a lot of cats while in retreat to gun fire, which is disappointing due to me paying 40 power and 400 req for them to die literally die so easily. They suppose to be tougher then gm squads, oh well.

[Troubleshooter]

Something tells me that sents are in for a price hike sooner rather than later... and then cata's will be more attractive, but that's still a lot of power on a unit that draws fire like they do. If catachans had a charge move I might build them into my game more, but as a melee unit they kinda blow because they can't catch anything without a commander goosing them somehow... and even then they can't stay in the fight for very long if there's decent covering fire.

Preventing the tier 2 rush is all fine and good, but IG tier 1 stinks of a death trap if forced to go too long... GM reinforcement costs add up fast without commissars.

[CommissarRezail]

I want more members, to the cat squad like bring it up to 12, and give them an ambush ability, where they magically go cloak and disappear for a few seconds then teleport around an enemy units in a poof of smoke. Then when they emerge from the smoke they drop a bomb down scattering everyone around them.

However the extra men would be fine, or a t2 catachan health boost, like the war gear in single player, that adds a boost to hp regeneration and health.

[limitedaccess]

This might be slightly off topic, but I have heard (like mentioned here) that catachans can counter units like ASMs in melee. However in practice whenever I've tried this, it never works well. The reason is (maybe because I only play 2v2, and 3v3 where there is more massed direct fighting) while the catachans engage the ASMs (after they jump in), what happens is the rest of the opponents range blob ends up killing the catachans very fast dropping DPS, while my guardsman cannot do the same in t1 to the ASMs. Because of the how easy they can die in retreat, you also either need to take them out earlier or it seems like you run a very high risk of the ASMs getting the kill (since they can often jump again into the retreat path), while the ASMs can then retreat through your guardsman, since they cannot do much even in forced melee. Any suggestions?

[Phlaago]

Yes, set up a multilaser turret when you know the enemy is going to jump your blob.. this will lend some additional dps to your forces.
also.. your commander needs to be in the face of the enemy ranged units, or otherwise helping the cats survive the ranged damage they are getting while in melee.

lately I have been getting catachans in T2 because of the ridiculously OP combo they make with bionic eye, my T1 is 2 or 3 GM and sent/hwt

[CommissarRezail]

Yes the turret, and the cat shot gun blast will help in the engagement, and don't just engage the asm out in the open with enemies around or when the enemy can visibly target the catachan, wait until he jumps them in a gm blob, then shot gun blast him then go into melee. However if they are all by them self, and the asm is unupgraded the cats got a good chance to win, and even better chance if it has a med pack from good old lord general. Just yes you lose a lot of members fast, but you have a good chance killing the asm or making him retreat.

Also cats can handle terminators, *not assault terminators with the lollipop hammers* just the ones with he power fist, they may not win but they can tangle them up for a nice duration.