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Sword of the Stars 2: Trust ye not the space dolphin.

  1. General Discussions Senior Member The Studio Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #901
    Beware of Zombified Terrorists Langy's Avatar
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    You mean Rebirth? Reunion was released a few years ago and doesn't include either of those things.

    But yes, Rebirth does appear to have cool stuff like that, but you also only get a single ship. Ever. Which kind of sucks:/

  2. #902
    Yep, Rebirth is the one I was thinking about. Sorry about that. I don't mind the one ship deal, you get to upgrade it apparently and you can directly control fighter sized drones through a VR interface thingy.

  3. #903
    find confession in your dreams boolybooly's Avatar
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    Well with Resmurf, as Langy said, they have a cockpit but limit you to one ship, that's a very different kind of game to previous X games and sounds more like Evochron or Dark Star One with Freelancer highways. I think they made compromises again and for lack of a better explanation it appears to be in order to limit the number of cockpits they have to make.

    What mystifies me is why, when they appear to be quite happy to make complex exteriors for dozens of ships. I may prod this with a very long stick once it is released, see if it twitches...

  4. #904
    There was only one ship in X-BTF and it was a naff one that could only be upgraded with the standard +cargo bay, + speed. If they can make the new one have character and an interesting upgrade system I'm not too fussed about the single ship, particularly as the drone system sounds exactly like flying a fighter in the previous few iterations anyway.

    I suspect the capital ship control system will be the make or break for me, you can give them orders apparently, but whether it'll be like the recent games, an RPG style dialogue order system or a Homeworld-esque UI I don't know.

  5. #905
    find confession in your dreams boolybooly's Avatar
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    Well that explains it then Jonny, extrapolating from X3's absent immersive content and the creative meltdown it implies, it sounds a bit like they have lost touch with the gameplay, (mesmerised by planet shiney,) ran out of ideas and are going backwards, back to the place they started, trying to find their way.

    That kind of retrospective approach smacks of desperation and doesn't bode well. Ship advancement is an important aspect of space trader gameplay, cutting it is expedient at best and a mistake if they had a choice. On the other hand maybe this was the only way they could reinvent the gameplay because to do that they had to let go of what X3 had become and start from fresh and fresh for them was X:BTF.

    Only time will tell, as I say, I will be deploying the very long stick, which also applies to all future Kerberos productions.

  6. #906
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    SotSII is now on sale on Steam.

  7. #907
    So Kerberos just sent out the "all clear" email, if anyone still cares.
    "Fear nothing except in the certainty that you are your enemy's begetter and its only hope of healing. For everything that does evil is in pain."
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  8. General Discussions Senior Member Modding Senior Member  #908
    Philosophizer Locutus's Avatar
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    I bought it a while ago as part of a package, I think this'll get me to go and try it out when I get a chance.
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    What we have here is a case of the living dead running amok and making an administrative burden of themselves.

  9. #909
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    I've had this on Steam sale. Good to try out after I'm done with XCOM.

  10. Gamers Lounge Senior Member Forum Subscriber  #910
    Jolly Co-Operation! Afoxi's Avatar
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    I've been telling people that the game has been complete for a long while.

    Why i didn't make a fuss out of it was because after all is said and done, they seem to have lost the balance between complexity and fun that SotS 1 had.

    It's very playable, but it seems extremely tedious now.

  11. #911
    find confession in your dreams boolybooly's Avatar
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    They also announced something else...

    http://www.indiegogo.com/sots-thepit

    It is a fishing expedition, an attempt to get into crowd funding. But at this juncture it makes me wonder about SotS2 because FYI all clear does not mean properly finished. SotS2 isnt properly finished, the UI is a disaster. If it stays like this I will remain very disappointed with them and I cannot endorse their product.

    Mecron quote


  12. #912
    Member Aesaar's Avatar
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    That (The Pit) actually looks like crap. It's like they forgot that one of the weakest parts of SotS1 was that the art was complete shit.

    For that matter, so were the ship designs. Fortunately, there's ACM.
    Last edited by Aesaar; 19th Oct 12 at 1:23 PM.

  13. #913
    Meh, don't care at all about SOTS2. If you guys say it's not as good as SOTS1 (for what sounds like valid reasons I'd agree with), then it's not as good as SOTS1. I'm still having fun with SOTS1 when I feel like a "fast-paced" 4X. I just finished a Solforce game, and now I'm playing a Tarka game.
    SOTS1's loading art is indeed complete shit; I could (and I do) draw 10x better than that. Ofc it doesn't affect the fun factor of the game at all.

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    Last edited by mlai; 19th Oct 12 at 8:21 AM.

  14. #914
    Uh, I actually like Sots 1 art and voice overs. It's enough cheesy to be enjoyable. Sides, the world is pretty well written at any rates, with different races and their gameplay mechanics changing. It's pretty sad to see it all cramped into some shitty indie iPad-like game.

  15. #915
    I seem to recall reading that the "all clear" wasn't an end to project development - however it was a Mecron quote so its got a bit of salt along with it .

    That said the new crowedsource game sounds like something they might be trying to throw together to get some much needed income into the company. I don't begrudge them that, I just hope that they continue to communicate and actively work upon polishing SotS2 - although at this stage I would not consider it out of the question for them to develop toward an expansion/standalone expansion for the game.

  16. Gamers Lounge Senior Member General Discussions Senior Member Dawn of War Senior Member  #916
    Extremely Interested [Vertigo]'s Avatar
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    I doubt they can get a publishing contract after what they did with Sots2 so they HAVE to go with the alternative: Crowd Sourcing. Honestly, I don't know why Kerberos is in business after the train wreck that was Sots2.
    What happens in Greenville, SC stays in Greenville, SC.

  17. #917
    I think Paradox invested a lot into them - enough that continuing to fund them after the failed launch was considered worthwhile. Plus they have somewhat redeemed themselves in working solid on the title to fix it - whereas the model for almost all other companies would have been to bury their head in the sand - deny everything and then close up shop/get bought out a month or two later.

  18. #918
    Member Kushan_Pilot's Avatar
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    I put a full day into it in July. About the only good thing I could say of it at the time was the game didn't crash on me. But the AI didn't do anything. Well...to be fair, of the two of them, one made it to DN hulls but neglected to do any other upgrades (crows). The other (Zuul) didn't leave their home system. Consequently it was all an exercise in exploring my tech tree as SolForce.

    It's been almost 3 months since then. If it's got an AI now, I'd be tempted to try it this weekend. But it'll be with a scowl on my face.


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  19. #919
    Member Goobers's Avatar
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    So I'm enjoying this almost crash free version of the game, like building a little fort out of chess pieces, I don't understand it but I like the colours. Desperately needs a tutorial though, and better economy tool tips since it seems like 90% of what you do is manage economy.

    The game is VERY bloody slow though, 8 turns to clear a system so I could spend 6 turns surveying it, followed by 8-12 turns colonizing it, with another 7 turns supporting the colony so it started making me money, and then another 12 turns of doing nothing to get me out of the really big debt I had made for myself.



    As for the AI, I had a Tarka AI stomping out a few of it's rebel colonies so it's obviously doing something, how much of a something I don't know but I got a couple of player defeated reports from that.

  20. Gamers Lounge Senior Member Forum Subscriber  #920
    Jolly Co-Operation! Afoxi's Avatar
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    I was told (so take this with a grain of salt) that feasibility research and admirals were put in as a measure to stop people from beating Mecron in his own game.

  21. #921
    How can SOTS2 AI be so bad when SOTS1 AI is so good?
    I love how an enemy civilization can promptly change its preferred weapons set on me, after watching me wipe out its initial defense fleet with technology specifically manufactured to counter it.
    Oh, and during the human game I mentioned above, I also had my very first AI Rebellion. If I wasn't allied with the Liir and NAP'ed with Solforce, I would have been in trouble. As it was, I had never been attacked so hard and so fast in my life. Wheeee.

  22. Gamers Lounge Senior Member General Discussions Senior Member Dawn of War Senior Member  #922
    Extremely Interested [Vertigo]'s Avatar
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    "How can SOTS2 be so bad when SOTS1 is so good?"

    I fixed that for you.

  23. #923
    Member Aesaar's Avatar
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    SotS1 AI is good? News to me. I remember it building hordes of cruisers and being utterly incapable of designing a good ship.

  24. #924
    Hordes of cruisers? Do you mean your AI never threw fleets of dreadnoughts at you? Maybe it just didn't have the resources.
    I don't know about their ships' exact turret layouts, but the AI can definitely counter your ship designs specifically.

  25. #925
    Member Aesaar's Avatar
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    They threw fleets of dreadnoughts at me very rarely, and only a while after I'd acquired dreadnoughts of my own. And even then, I had fleets of 5 or 6 dreadnoughts butchering dozens of theirs. It's pretty much why I stopped playing. Game just got too easy.

  26. Gamers Lounge Senior Member General Discussions Senior Member Dawn of War Senior Member  #926
    Extremely Interested [Vertigo]'s Avatar
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    Depends on the map, tech level, and the difficulty of the AI you selected. Sometimes the AI gets a bad start and really doesn't amount to much at any point in the game. Some races are programmed to be hippies when it comes to war. With Sots 1 I can say the AI can give you a run for your money. Although there are ways to abuse the AI if you know what you are doing.

    Edit: One game of Sots1 doesn't really set a good example of how all games will play out. There is a considerable amount of randomness in each game that can effect the outcome.

  27. #927
    It also depends what difficulty you set the AI to - for example the easy AI will never ever tech past cruisers (if it does it takes so long you'll likely never see it).

  28. #928
    I always give the AI a head start (more starting money, more starting colonies) in the setup screen.

    I was cruising around with my fleet of dreadnoughts decked out with front disruptor shields, because the rebel AI was pumping out heavy lancer dreadnoughts that I researched. I felt pretty smart until its dreadnought rammed nose-to-nose right into my disruptor shielded dreadnought, and somehow our polygon bits hooked onto each other so that my ship can't even move. Why did it do that? Because now its nose section is entirely past my shield, and it just started melting my face with everything point-blank. Scariest lancer slugfest of my campaign.

  29. #929
    Member Aesaar's Avatar
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    To be clear, I haven't just played 1 game. I've played over 400 hours of SotS1. Maybe the AI can't handle the ACM mod well (fuck vanilla), but it's never given me much difficulty after I teched to dreadnoughts. Maybe it's the Mauler Devices I always seem to get in the tech tree.
    Last edited by Aesaar; 20th Oct 12 at 10:25 PM.

  30. #930
    in tactical battle... how do you tell what enemy ship is what? (aside from... look at their shapes) seems i can only have camera focus on my own ship, as opposed to free camera being able to zoom into empty space

  31. #931
    @ Aesaar:
    Well... ofc if you're using a mod which radically redesigns everything, the SOTS1 default AI won't be much of a challenge.

    @ Yankov:
    There's no free camera in SOTS1, but you can press 'E' to zoom onto a discovered enemy ship. Or you can hover your pointer over any solid object and press 'F' to focus onto that. Use the radar screen for precise 'F' manual focusing.

  32. #932
    In SotS 1 you can also press the middle mouse button when hovering over any solid object and it will tie the camera to that object. If it becomes destroyed the camera hovers over the last known point before destruction. (in fact barring shift and ctrl for selecting groups of ships for moving them around SotS 1 is a great game you can control just with the mouse alone.

  33. #933
    (sots2)
    ah... right... was wondering because i can't select enemy ships.. left click them mean attacking them. so didn't know how to focus on them, despite knowing what the hotkey is.

  34. #934
    1st expansion releases on the 30th, and will be free for all current owners of the game.

    http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...hanced-Edition

  35. #935
    Member Busby's Avatar
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    Suddenly I feel really bad for wiping out those AI rebellions in prime.

  36. #936
    They're back for payback. It's all your fault Busby

  37. #937
    Member Rook's Avatar
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    A nice surprise, it seems rather interesting and best of all its free! maybe this will wash some of the bad taste out of my mouth.

  38. #938
    Well, I have to admit I'm a little impressed that they've been releasing patches all year, and developing an expansion, and making an indie roguelike...

  39. #939
    Member Rook's Avatar
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    ah i actually meant the bad taste left by legends of pegasus, I've had a lot of fun with sots2 trying it off and on since release. but the genre has been a little rocky lately.

  40. #940
    I'd expected them to work on an expansion or standalone release -though I'm very glad that it seems that they've managed to do this alongside patching the game so extensively. Maybe Paradox can show that even a failed launch can be repaired to a quality title.

  41. #941
    I've not touched SotS2 for a long time. It's not just the state of the game, I was disgusted at mecron and Kerberos in general. Being right there on their forums around launch day and having no inkling from them that the full priced game I'd pre-ordered based on their previous work was a blatant alpha-build shambles really put me off them.

    Giving away this expansion for free goes a small way towards repairing that. I'll still never buy another Kerberos game until I know damn sure that it's not a rip-off again, but at least I'll be able to try SotS2 in a reasonably objective fashion instead of being coloured by it's launch.

    *edit*

    Also, Kickstarter? With Kerberos? Are they nuts? I wouldn't promise Mecron a used rubber without seeing the finished product first.
    Last edited by Jonny; 16th Nov 12 at 5:52 PM.

  42. #942
    Cool. I too am impressed how much they've invested in SOTS2. I only hope they can improve the UI in the enhanced edition. It's really unintuitive from what little I've tried of the game. I want so much to like it.

  43. Gamers Lounge Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #943
    Moe~ money, moe~ problems Mokino's Avatar
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    A lot of the UI/game seems to be complexity for complexity sake.

  44. Gamers Lounge Senior Member Forum Subscriber  #944
    Jolly Co-Operation! Afoxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mokino View Post
    A lot of the UI/game seems to be complexity for complexity sake.
    A lot of the UI/Game/Bureaucratic Nonsense/Complexity is in place to make players conform to Mecron's playstyle and stop them from beating him in his own game during multiplayer. ==;;

  45. #945
    http://www.kerberos-productions.com/...p?f=37&t=36451

    Just to confirm for people wondering, it seems that the way this will be rolled out is a straight product swap. Essentially the expansion/enhanced edition looks like it will be a product update (like a superpatch). As such I suspect that any hardcopy purchases made at any point of the original SOTS2 game will get the upgrade for free and that, of course, any SOTS2 purchase made online up to or after the point of the expansions release gets the expansion too.

  46. The Studio Senior Member  #946
    Art Dolt BalanceSheet's Avatar
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    Did some contract work for Kerberos, not sure if these assets will end up in the game or some other project with the Loa race.




  47. #947
    Member Jopax's Avatar
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    Sweet stuff Balance, glad to see you working with some big names

    This seems like a great thing, and honestly I only played the first one with all the extra stuff and it was awesome, so I think 2 will be getting better with time. Might even nab this one if it goes on sale for Christmas
    And the mantis shrimp said "Let there be light!"

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  48. Gamers Lounge Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #948
    Moe~ money, moe~ problems Mokino's Avatar
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    Nice art Balance. They've come a long way since the SOTS1 screens (though I love the retro style of those still.)

    EDIT: Considering how much the expansions changed SOTS 1, I have SOME hope that there's a salvageable game in the sequel.
    Last edited by Mokino; 17th Nov 12 at 3:33 PM.

  49. #949
    Yeah, they've confirmed that all copies of SotsII will be upgraded, and all new copies produced will be Enhanced Edition. The point is to reward everyone who bought SotSII and also make sure that they only have one version to maintain. So even if you buy a boxed copy of vanilla SotSII after the Enhanced Edition release, it will be patched to include the End Of Flesh expansion.

  50. #950
    Member Carl's Avatar
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    So i could go out and get SOTS2 now and it would auto update to the expanshion on release? Intresting.

    Given the release state we never really did get a full discushion though on mechanics et al. How has the tech tree balance worked out this time round. Last time the list of non-viable weaponry amounted to 80% of the things in the tech tree. What with PD spam rendering all missiles, drones, torps, and pretty much anything else invalid, low power rendering every small weapon non-PD option bar pulse Phasers pretty bad, and only really Ap Gauss and Plasma/Fushion/Antimatter cannon, (+ heavy vaients), being really good. Pretty much everything else amounting to second best or tottally horribble depending.

    ALso how have battle riders fared, cna you actually bring enough to get some true firepower out of them by comparision to a nmn-BR carring alternative ship, or are they pretty much SOTS1 DD's Mk2?

    For that matter how have stations worked out, and all the other nice new features.
    I don't know what i'm talking about, ignore me.

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