Tribes: Ascend - Now in open beta

[Brenil]

Doing more than one thing isn't doing 'everything', Shuma. Stop exaggerating so that it supports your argument. There's nothing wrong with classes being able to do something else than their primary purpose. Having one-trick pony classes may make balance easier, but it doesn't make the game more fun. Every class should have an alternative role, and like I listed about, most already do. Only the Doombringer and Sentinel really struggle in terms of branching out. So those classes have it right and we should just scrap and start over with the rest?

Wait, don't answer that, I think I know what your answer will be.

I think it's obvious we won't agree here, so how about let's just drop it so this doesn't go on forever. You think Sentinels are fine, I think they need relatively minor changes. There you have it.

[roflmao]

It's fun to lob grenades as juggernaut at enemies camping at their flag position.

[Paladin]

The Sentinel has a couple of different things it can do, they're just mostly subtle variations on a theme.

[Trizzdog]

Shuma:

Yes it should, otherwise you end up with horribly broken weapons like the plasma gun and the jackal...

That... has nothing to do with high level play. That's just HiRez being silly. Even normal players can go "hey this is broken" and derp around killing everything.

On a side note, f you do balance a game based on godly players' abilities, on the presumption they don't miss, have insane micro, etc, then you end up with a highly inaccessible game where the meta isn't logically grasped by the majority normal skilled players (e.g. later versions of CoH). Balancing a game should consider all levels of play.

Would argue more about the Sentinel, but since Brenil has given up the argument, so should I; for the same reasons.

[Kryopsis]

All you Plasma Gun haters are just jealous of my 1337 skillz!

On a serious note, the new preset feature made the Soldier a much better class. I've made myself two loadouts, one with the AR/Thumper combo, Utility Pack, Safety Third and Quick Draw and one with Spinfusor, Eagle Pistol and everything that gives bonus energy. By alternating between the two presets, I can take further advantage of the incredible flexibility of the class. If the Raider didn't have the Jammer, I'd probably just switch over to Soldier permanently. The AR/Thumper combination is absolutely insane, not to mention you can cancel the reloading animation of the Thumper by switching to the AR.

[Busby]

After spending a few games bashing my head against my empty flag stand and hopelessly trying to catch a 3x Nitron boost pack bolt launcher light assault rifle Pathfinder, I've decided that this game is a great example of pay-to-win. Ignoring the plasma gun Raider easy mode and the Falcon and the LMG for the Juggernaugt, the fact is that a fresh player can do nearly nothing useful for their team because they simply lack the perks and unlocks to be effective. No amount of good play is going to let some one who doesn't have a Doombringer with Super Heavy and mines defend the flag against 200+km/h Pathfinders and no one can chase them effectively unless they massively screw up. And capping the flag without being a fully upgraded Pathfinder is simply impossible, again, unless the other team completely screws up. Its super frustrating that over players have a skill and knowledge advantage as it is. It doesn't help they have simply superior equipment.

[Kryopsis]

I don't think you know what pay to win is.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

After spending a few games bashing my head against my empty flag stand and hopelessly trying to catch a 3x Nitron boost pack bolt launcher light assault rifle Pathfinder, I've decided that this game is a great example of pay-to-win. Ignoring the plasma gun Raider easy mode and the Falcon and the LMG for the Juggernaugt, the fact is that a fresh player can do nearly nothing useful for their team because they simply lack the perks and unlocks to be effective.

well, fresh players end up on bronze servers where people dont have many unlocks.

ps, the counter to infinitely skiing super pathfinder flag carriers is doombringers. at a minimum it keeps them close to the ground. you can even do something wacky like a doombringer on a grav cycle. Shrikes work really well for chasing too, tho the fastest pathfinders can be tough.

[Rivy]

Pay to win means Battlefield Play4Free. Tribes is pay or grind like a motherf

[Busby]

@Shoe: I haven't gotten into a bronze only game since I started playing. Too many people abuse the "Join Friend" option it seems and there is always at least one or two gold and silver players even in Bronze matches. Though again with Doombringers, without Super Heavy and Mines, Pathfinders just blast the flag stand as they get close, knocking the Doombringer out the way and force fields are avoidable thanks to Reach. I've done it a few times with an unupgraded Pathfinder without even getting 200km/h, even passing over a light turret or two on the way and during the exit.

@Kryopsis: Ok, maybe not pay to win, more like pay for massive advantage both in equipment and time over people who don't spend money. Still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Paladin]

It's pay to skip.

Anyway, even at higher level play offense is totally out of balance with defense, and it's a lot easier to nab the flag than to stop it from being nabbed. But at any level, all you have to do is damage the Pathy a little bit so that your Sentinel can pop him in one shot as he zips away, thinking he's in the clear.

As far as I've ever been able to tell, that's the Pathy's primary role in the game. Harassment and disruption is just what he should be doing when he has free time between ganking flag cappers.

[Brenil]

Though again with Doombringers, without Super Heavy and Mines, Pathfinders just blast the flag stand as they get close, knocking the Doombringer out the way and force fields are avoidable thanks to Reach. I've done it a few times with an unupgraded Pathfinder without even getting 200km/h, even passing over a light turret or two on the way and during the exit.

Sorry, but you're vastly oversimplifying the job of a Pathfinder and undervaluing how easy it is to stop a single capper. There's more to being a HoF than having Super Heavy and laughing when someone smacks into you. It's more about forcefield placement, which you obviously need to work on, and timing your defensive shots to kill or at least disrupt an incoming capper. Also, the chaingun, on most maps, will have plenty of time to chew up an incoming Pathfinder if you're paying attention and/or your team is doing their job in spotting. You may not kill them, but you'll wound them enough that they'll die to someone, or something else, or force them off their route or screw it up. Then there's the fact that the HoF doesn't have to be a Doombringer. Juggernauts can HoF just fine, and given that they have a spinfusor by default, they can use that to nail the flag as a capper tries to grab it. Or if you're proficient with the fusion mortar, you could sit on the flag, jetpack up, and launch a mortar at your feet as the capper is coming in.

I don't know if there is a huge imbalance between offense and defense as Paladin claims. It was certainly true in the original Tribes, but there's a lot more defensive options to work with in Ascend to make me question that claim, or at least the severity of the imbalance, if it exists.

[Shuma]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJXIzoIZ6UY

Disco is back. I've been playing with the Plasma gun all day to be ready for tomorrows update.

[Busby]

So the Brute gets both a Jackal* and a Plasma Gun? This can only end well.

*Well, OK more like an ARX that detonates on contact. Which is still scary as hell.

[Trizzdog]

I think the "balancing by breaking everything" approach is going to work.

[[Vertigo]]

It will certainly make them money.

[Jak.]

Patching now. Can't wait till my dominance of brutes comes to my end.

[Shuma]

Welp, i've been playing with the Brute stuff all day and like i said i used the plasma gun all day yesterday. Few things:

Patch notes: http://www.egmnow.com/tribesascend/t...ion-1-0-980-1/

Plasma gun hitbox was nerfed again, the Brute's Plasma Cannon appears to have the same hitbox(i have no idea about the numbers, but it feels the same to me), still piss easy to get mid airs with it. Jackal's damage was nerfed, which does nothing at all, so it's still OP, rage perk got a tremendous buff, but i don't use it so i don't have an opinion on it. Proximity grenades on the Soldier were buffed, so it seems HiRez likes that the Soldier is stealing the Doombringer's job as flag defender.

Brute stuff.

No skins, Bart confirmed on his stream that they simply were not ready and will be released in the future.

The Plasma cannon is, a bigger, heavier, slower, stronger plasma gun, it feels pretty well balanced to be honest. Raider is still king of indoor combat(and outdoor combat, obviously), but it's not like we expected anything different. The Plasma Cannon is a secondary slot weapon, which in my opinion means that no one will ever use the nova colt or the shotgun again other than just for kicks. The Plasma gun shines indoors and outdoors, couple it with the HFS and the Quickdraw perk and you can slaughter anyone in seconds.

The Gladiator is... Weird. The weapon is fun, and it's really strong when coupled with the fractal grenades(cut the escape routes from your enemy, then spam the gladiator at them), but it seems like a really gimmicky weapon, i like it, but i'm not sure if it's a good weapon, it takes too long to detonate and the projectile is kind of slow, so pretty much anyone will move out of it's way if they see it coming, a direct hit deals less damage than being hit by the 3 AoE waves it gives, it is better than the HFS for destruction of base assets, and it really shines on Raindance when attacking the enemy flag stand. And it sucks shit outside.

The Survival pack is great, feels to me like now you'd only use the energy pack if you're fatfinding, the shield pack still has it's uses though, especially if you need to break a standoff and get your flag back.

So unfortunately, the Brute did become stronger, but the Juggernaut still outclasses him and he's still Raider food. TCN's are pretty screwed now though.

[Trizzdog]

Wonder if they'll ever simply give the jackal a trigger timer.

[Busby]

So now that the pack has been out a while, how does everyone feel about the weapons? Personally from what I have seen of the Gladiator isn't really worth it. The heavy spinfuser seems to do everything it does better, and fighting Gladiator Brutes is even easier then a spinfuser one. The plasma gun seems rather balanced, actually. The Jackal nerf did absolutely nothing, no big surprise, its still pure cheese.

I have also found out that I really like the Technician. His SMG is pure win-sauce and the grenades aren't amazing but do a decent enough job. Combined with the turrets I always am near the top of the score board. I also just unlocked the Raider, who seems even better thanks to a similar SMG and the ARX buster for raping flag stands and shields to troll people who try and dual me. Honestly, screw spinfusers, give me good SMGs and I'm set.

[Infidelicious]

Gladiator and Plasma Cannon should have been switched. Gladiator isn't good enough to be a primary, and the plasma cannon makes any other choice in secondary redundant.

[Shuma]

Eh, the Nova Colt is still pretty good, but i don't see any reason to use the shotgun now. Anyway, big news:

http://forum.hirezstudios.com/phpbb/...?f=234&t=73546
http://forum.hirezstudios.com/phpbb/...?f=313&t=73412

[Jak.]

Pretty MEH about these changes. As a DMB, I consistently hit targets with the chaingun, but the chaingun takes a bit of effort to learn. The pathfinders shotgun is next to useless. SMG's / AR's don't kill me, apart from the NJ5-B (which is piss easy to fire, and does good damage). Never faced the falcon, mostly because sentinals rarely attack.

Also, doombringer mines are well worth it.

[Open Blue]

DMB mines are pretty standard in competitive play if you're HoF.

I feel the brute changes are a nice side-grade, I don't feel like they add anything special though. Plasma cannon is a bit of a snooze-fest in terms of weapon design and a feel like the rate of fire should be slightly lowered.

Saw an infiltrator today cloak on our flag while having the super heavy perk. Never seen pathfinders so confused about going splat before.

[Shuma]

Probably the only thing more horrifying than a Soldier with proximity grenades on flag defense, is an infiltrator with super heavy, prism mines and the jackal. The Brute update was really good, nothing overpowered except maybe the Survival pack, no much reason to use the energy pack now, Plasma Cannon is awesome indoors if you have the Heavy Spinfusor and Quickdraw.

As for the changes to automatic weapons, it's something that pretty much everyone complains about in the game, automatic are too easy to use, too strong and are pretty much better than explosive weapons in 90% of the situations you're going to find yourself, the 10% being when you're indoors. Also, while it's not in the "preview" yet, when all this was discussed pretty much everyone agreed that the sentinel needs to be heavily nerfed, wonder how that'll work out since supposedly he was going to get the next weapon pack, or maybe he wont be nerfed at all in this particular patch, that "council" they had with the "best" players lasted like 3 hours and they pretty much talked about everything.

[Jak.]

I was talking to somebody in game (Cricoa?), and after saying the requisite "NJ5-B is OP" after getting killed by on, he disagreed, saying that it was as hard to fire as a chaingun. Now, the NJ5-B is easy to aim, does good damage, and is so easy to aim that the scope is actually useful. How is this related to the chaingun?

[Shuma]

No idea, but in my opinion the NJ4 is better, if you're fighting a competent player, he will do the adadadada dance if you're using an automatic weapon, and because of the NJ5's rate of fire, that means that you will lose plenty of shots, that's not to say its useless though, heavies get shredded by it, so it's really good if you're playing on defense because you can kill lmg using juggernauts more easily than with the NJ4.

But from the looks of it, things will drastically change with this next patch when it comes to automatic weapons.

[Open Blue]

There has been a big calling for the nerfing of automatic weapons, mostly from the competitive scene, but I'm sure pub heavies are still bitching too.

The thing about the NJ4 and NJ5 is that they're supposed to be side-grades of each other, it was meant to accentuate preference in game play, but rather than embrace it, the community is, once again, divided on a trivial issue.

[Shuma]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfsmv...&feature=g-u-u

I'm sure nothing bad will come out of this patch. Also, where are the god damn skins for Brutes?

[Misiok]

I believe it is time to finally reinstall this.

[Shuma]

And patch notes:

http://forum.hirezstudios.com/phpbb/...939556#p939556

[Jak.]

Woo, doomy wasn't nerfed at all, and he got 1 extra weapon. Wait, 27 new weapons, 9 classes, and doomy gets one weapon? So doomy still has the least weapons :{

[Maktaka]

No no, Doombring, Bring of the DOOM, got three new weapons like everyone else, he just got one of his three as a notably different weapon rather than a mere stat tweak. Which is quite good, the Saber Launcher has been crying out for a good alternate weapon choice.

[Busby]

Dam, now I can't whore the SMGs to victory any more. That's probably a good thing, honestly.

[Shuma]

Nah, they're still stronger than explosives. Also shit, the new TCN smg deals 120 damage.

[Kryopsis]

And patch notes:

http://forum.hirezstudios.com/phpbb/...939556#p939556

[Busby]

Nah, they're still stronger than explosives. Also shit, the new TCN smg deals 120 damage.

Yeah. The nerf to the TCN's stock smg doesn't feel that massive honestly, and the NJ4 is still great. The Rhino feels like complete pants however, it runs out of ammo really fast and doesn't preform very well otherwise compared to before.

PS: The extended length disco nades are so rage worthy. Rage.

[konfeta]

Hm, I am interested in trying this with the death of Spess Mareen and tiredness of Counter-Strike.

General question - how grindy is it to unlock most of the game's features?

[Nalkor]

Very grindy. You either spend actual cash or save up over I think 100k EXP to get a new piece of gear, and that EXP is also used for upgrading your armor, which goes a long way.

[konfeta]

Hmm, not sure if I am interested in this or Planetside 2 more. I suppose, free to play, if I like it - get the steam starter pack (I assume that is allowed?). I guess what I wanted to ask specifically - how important is it to unlock a ton of stuff? Will I feel gimped compared to players who already have most of the content/upgrades unlocked?

[Shuma]

how important is it to unlock a ton of stuff?

To be honest, that depends on what class you want to play, for example, the infiltrator and doombringer are very dependent on some unlocks, not that they can't do their job without them, but some of their unlocks are pretty much straight upgrades. On the other hand, the Soldier, Pathfinder and Juggernaut are pretty strong from the start, and they're already there from the start, the pathfinder doesn't need much unlocks to be perfect, only thing he really needs is the egocentric perk and fully upgraded nitrons and armor, which isn't that much.

And you will feel horribly gimped, because this game has no matchmaking, once you're rank 8 or so, the game will throw you with everyone else, from rank 10s to rank 40s, so not only will those people have everything unlocked, they will also be more experienced, i'm rank 32 i think, i haven't played in a while and i had everything unlocked when i stopped.

Either way, i loved the game and i found it extremely fun, so give it a try.

[konfeta]

Well, Shuma, I trust in your taste as you played Spess Mareen. Time to impulse-buy a starter pack!

[Shuma]

Oh by the way, in training mode, you can try weapons and stuff you haven't unlocked, just go to select them as if you had them unlocked while in training mode, you should hear like a clicking sound. You can also do silly stuff like putting on the infiltrators cloak pack on a heavy class, assuming you haven't unlocked the infiltrator and his cloak pack yet.

[saki]

@nalk0r / konfeta: In a recent patch armor/item Upgrades were changed. You gain ability/item upgrades by using them, without spending your general XP. But you can still unlock these upgrade with XP/gold. Items and classes have to be bought manually still.

[konfeta]

Oh, I noticed that. It feels a lot less painful to max out a class than I thought it would be, just 3-4 hours seems enough to max out quite a few things on a single class. Sniping is a bit awkward in this game though, no headshots and charge time .

Looks like I'mma rush straight to that Phase Rifle, it looks like it trades energy use for superior sniping/combat ability.

[Shuma]

I can't understand people who play sentinel in this game, seems awfully boring to me when you compare the sentinel to the other classes. And it'll take you a while to get used to sniping, but if you do get used to sniping, then you alone can change the course of a game.

[WingedKagouti]

I can't understand people who play sentinel in this game, seems awfully boring to me when you compare the sentinel to the other classes. And it'll take you a while to get used to sniping, but if you do get used to sniping, then you alone can change the course of a game.

People like being important.

[konfeta]

Also, the Sentinel secondary is pretty damn awesome. Pew pew pew.

[Busby]

Crappy Sentinels are a waste of a player spot. Good Sentinels win the game single handedly. I'm personally rather crappy at sniping, so instead I get all my kills with claymores and the Nova Blaster when I do play it, which isn't very often. I'd rather play tech. The Rockwind is a great SMG and turrets are fun. Shame the sparrow is utter shite and the sawed-off is so expensive.

[Jak.]

Yeah, as I'm levelling up you start seeing snipers that are actually decent. As a DMB, i get a lot of kills though mines and force-walls. Quick Tip: Shoot the flagstand. Shoot it a lot. Otherwise you will go splat through a force wall, or mines. However, on some maps (Katabatic) those with reach can fly straight above, which is rather annoying. Also, could sentinels not be selfish bastards and put the stealth thing covering the flagstand? Quite handy.