[SS]Daemons Mod (0.96) - Released!

[Cylarne_04]

Daemons Mod - Official Stand Alone Race For Dawn of War Soulstorm and Dark Crusade

Daemons Mod on MOD DB | Daemons Mod on Revora Forums | Check out the Ultimate Apocalypse Mod, 100% compatibility

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Description: This mod will be adding the Demons race to both Dawn of War: Dark Crusade, and Dawn of War: Soulstorm. The Demons race will be created to bring forth the most viscous of demonic forces unlike Chaos, and their power of 100% demonic domination will be shown throughout any galaxy. The Demons race focuses on the creation of all demons, and all demons will be within this mod. All new units, structures, abilities, new design of gameplay (epic gameplay that's for sure), art, ai, upgrades, and a complete race alone will be forged by our hands. The Demons mod Team will bring you a final breath-taking discovery and demonstrate to you one of the final epic races of Dawnof War 40K.

Here is a good starting description of the Demons race.

Daemons mod Team:
The new Daemons Team, includes many of the previous team members, plus some new very skilful brothers:

• Cylarne (Initial mod developer, Support assistant) - retired
• Gambit (mod leader)
• Corncobman
• Cosmocrat
• Fuggles
• Hollow
• Jaguar-Lord
• jONES1979
• Sataman
• Shodar
• Thudmeizer

Can be you! Join the Daemons mod today! Feel free to PM Gambit on Relicnews or MOD DB to be within the mod team.

Download the Daemons Mod!

Download version 0.96 (Compatible with Ultimate Apocalypse mod!)
or download mirror on MOD DB...
Download version 0.96 (Compatible with Ultimate Apocalypse mod!)

View the changelog.

Screenshots

NOTE: Some content contains Apocalypse mod material. The primary goal is to split the Demon's race faction from my mod (The Apocalypse mod). Some units or objects you find in other factions regarding the Apocalypse mod will unfortunately not be in...

And Finally, Croaxleigh's Epic Creations

Beast of Nurgle


Bloodcrusher (Juggernaut + Bloodletter Rider)


Fiend of Slaanesh


Flamer of Tzeentch


Herald of Khorne


Herald of Slaanesh (based on Daemonette model from FoK)


Plaguebearer


Seeker of Slaanesh (modified FoK Daemonette on Steed of Slaanesh)


Soulgrinder

Credits

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS

Initial Mod Leader, Primary Coder, Creator and "Owner": Cylarne.
New "leader" and coder: Gambit.
Models: Cylarne, Cosmocrat, RT2, Sataman, Fuggles, Croax.
AI: Thudmeizer, Cylarne
Art and Taskbar: Jaguar-Lord.
FXes: Sataman, Cylarne.

New Maps: Jaguar-Lord, and some monoRAIL's work.
Icons: RT2, finished off by Gambit.
Playtesting: Previously, UA Team, Daemons team - and now the NEW daemons team.


Assets/Tools
Sharing work, is a beautiful thing. And because of the generosity of some people, we can all enjoy possibilities that we otherwise couldn't. Thus, our gratitude goes to:
Firestorm Over Kaurava mod team: You all know the guys... It's from the wide "pool" of their assets, we all occasionally draw.
Thousand Sons mod: For the Daemons "Acrylic Circle" used from the TS Daemon Pit.
Warsmith / _Echo_: For his models (especially for the Daemon Lord, the 4 heralds, the Shadow Fiends and the Doom Pit) used by the Dark Prophecy mod. Note: His Warp Portal model was a life-saver - thanks man!
Boothy_p: For many of his assets, suggestions and support. I was greatly inspired by his own design of Warp Daemons.
Catwell: For his Bloodletters.
Horus Heretic: For his Flesh Hounds.
Mudflap and Palii: For Nurglings.
Andrei: For his Fiends.
And of course Corsix!: For his excellent tool most of us use!

The Daemons team would also like to thank:
Corncobman: For his invaluable coding help on the project.
Jones1979: for the Objective Points mod which was extremely well done for the Daemons faction and other factions in the DOW Community.
Thudmeizer: For his support, and Voices for some units. (and for his MEGALITHIC contribution to the DOW modding community !!)
Croaxleigh: For his support and suggestions, especially at the begging of the new version of Daemons mod. And of course, for his unfailing kindness!
Sataman: For his gentle spirit and his resolve to provide FXes, even when he was... ill !!



ALL BROTHERS that we have not mentioned here (although we are using their work), but we should have....

Permissions
There are chances we used material that we may not have the proper rights to do so. With the plethora of assets and modders, it is sometimes difficult to trace-back the origin of assets and the permissions required.... We respect the work of others which is their own intellectual property, and we have NO ill-intend. So, if you spot anything that seems misplaced, just notify us and we will replace it immediately.

Regards,
Gambit (Paul)

And like Thudmeizer said,

Thank gawd you seem to have everything @ hand. Judging by what I tested with Daemons, that single faction alone and its insane FX events, you are quite beyond other projects!

Appreciate this, Thomas!

And some good quotes... And some more good quotes... And more... And more... And more...

So will we be releasing some epic stuff? Yup.

[RMX]

Good luck with this mod. I hope I can play Chaos Daemons soon

Does this mod I found have to do anything with you?
http://www.gamefront.com/files/20746...s_Daemons_beta It's got a Flesh Hound model made from a modified Warp Beast.

[Gambit]

I also bid you good luck brother Cylarne and the same to all other Imperium heroes. I have to admit I like the whole DEMONS race project quite a lot. I will be here to offer my humble services as an invisible MOD tester, of course.

I have been playing table RPGs (mostly D&D) for 20+ years now, and almost all my campaigns were centered upon the demonic aspect, thus my experience could be helpful. So, I could throw some mechanics ideas on the table, should such a need arise.

[Cylarne_04]

@RMX: Oh wow, nothing to do with me bro. The official Demons race is definitely not broken like you see within that link. I see it was uploaded very recently though. If you know the creator, I need to talk to him.

Flesh Hounds are already in mine, along with new gifts from my friends no one has seen but the Apocalypse Mod Team.

@Gambit: I will definitely be putting you on the list. I'll be recruiting beta testers all over when I feel the Demons mod is ready for private BETA. Although you mentioned,

I have been playing table RPGs (mostly D&D) for 20+ years now, and almost all my campaigns were centered upon the demonic aspect, thus my experience could be helpful. So, I could throw some mechanics ideas on the table, should such a need arise.

I might consider you sooner. I need codex matches.

[RMX]

http://dawnofwar.filefront.com/developer/boothyp;33589

Found the guy, Cylarne

[Gambit]

@Cylarne: Though I would gladly offer my services if I did have codex matches experience... this is not the case. I have little experience with table strategy games. By saying RPGs, I meant "normal" role playing games and not the WH strategy game.
Still, I think I can be a helpful advisor, providing interesting options or suggestions, concerning the implementation of ideas in the game (this was my initial intention).

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding, brother.

[boothy_p]

What are you looking to achieve? Full codex?

I might be able to help, it sort of depends what you need

PM me if it's secret

PS: what makes it official or not? Might waht to make by heretic race official

[ProfessorGenius]

@Gambit and boothy: I think Cylarne is talking about what the Demons race contains, he doesn't mean the codex, codex. If this mod is what I think it is, like the Tyranids mod team, Daemonhunters, etc., this mod will be 100% vanilla DOW Soulstorm/Dark Crusade.

I think all Cylarne was asking for is what the Demons race possess, like new abilities, units, straight from the 5th edition codex.

But yeah boothy, the Daemons race was announced a long time ago by the Apocalypse Mod Team. Creating two mods based on the same race will be a very huge issue. Cylarne is A LOT farther than you and the Daemons race project Cylarne is creating is already on its way through 3D developement out of the Demons mod Team's own design so I've heard.

I play tested both Cylarne's and Boothy's, and so far, Cylarne's stand alone race is pretty unique in just too many ways. I of course mean no offense and I'm just being honest.

[boothy_p]

I'm absolutely sure it is, there is a very talented group of modders working on stuff across these forums here.

I'm just interested in what is actually contained/to-do, and would help if I could/appropriate. I just like to mod myself (turning the whole process into a hobby), but am limited my by team of just myself, and my need to produce stuff as quickly as possible.

[Gambit]

@ProfessorGenius: I have no experience at all in the Daemons Codex, that is why I clarified that my knowledge was strictly limited to non-GW daemonic topics. I volunteered for general mechanics integration of the race.

To be more specific, here is a sample of the help-to-offer I have in mind (just vague suggestions due to lack of info):

Shrine-Based Economy
- I think that neither requisition nor power, qualify for Daemon resources. I suggest remove the plasma generators idea completely, keep strategic points, now representing the daemonic scourge spreading upon the mortal realm, and build shrines on strategic points. Each shrine should have a different name, shape and effect, corresponding to each of the four (or five) gods (i.e. Corruption, Slaughter etc.). Shrines should not bare weaponry, but abilities and effects in accordance with the god they represent.
As more shrines are built, the warp would grant more benefits thus, more resources.
- I also suggest the shrines to increase the pop cap (like Necrons). Moreover, I would not impose a strict limit to Daemons army pop, but a standard upgrade per shrine (i.e. strategic point taken, and built) up to 4 less than the normal maximum (16), and then 1, for each new shrine built. Thus, spreading the daemonic scourge would still be a goal even at normal max pop, and would further strengthen the force of the army, even if by a little bit.
On the other hand, the lesser the spread, the weaker in numbers the invading daemonic hordes.

NOTE: These are arbitrary and in-a-hurry suggestions, not to be take seriously, as are.

Questions:
1] Are there any demonic units included in the army list that are treated as vehicles; (OK, I am a noob to the tabletop rules, and this question is the proof of it).
2] The army will have an initial choice to be devoted to one of the gods, or it will be a unified Daemonic force?

[OrangutanSamura]

So will this mod be split from the Apocaypse mod?

[Gambit]

@OrangutanSamura: As stated in the first post, this mod will be stand-alone. I speculate though, that Cylarne initially worked this race as an integrated part of the Apocalypse mod, but it later turned out that it would be better as a stand-alone race. So yes, the existing parts of the Daemon race must be split from Apocalypse.
But, do not take my opinion for granted, I am not part of the team so I may be mistaken...

By the way....
What's your opinion about my "Economy" suggestions?
Note: Pay heed to my signature before replying (hehehehe!)

[boothy_p]

The "economy" idea is defo the most logical and probably the most sensible to implement (within the existing framework of the game). Similar to tyranids. Downside is then implementing any restrictions on being able to tech up after capturing 1 SP and immediately to tier 3. That's why the necrons have all of their basically useless buildings to build.

Not sure about variable squad cap increasing, purely from an implementation view, nice idea, but could be tricky, as could basically having a very high cap that could be obtained slowly by taking over part of the map. Map sizes would need to be considered, average number of SP, relics etc that could reasonably be captured and provide a comparable force. No point being totally powerful if you own most of the map, if you were dead 20 minutes before that..

Anyway, my guess would be that all this is already done by now for this mod as it's been going long enough, and they just need a few models, fx etc doing.

It would be intereting to see how this mod has approached there economy and building tech, as taking a table top race and having to invent the base building and tech can be tricky.

Especially for a race like daemons
warp rift opens,
daemons pour out,
kill everything,
go back to warp to drink tea......
Do not stop to build anything,
infact destroy all building
back for more warp tea.......

[RMX]

This is how I'd do it. I'm sure the Apoc/Daemons team have their own ideas set in stone, but wishful thinking threads like these are fun and rare.

Like Tyranids, Daemons should be centered around taking over the map and gradually turning it into a warp-friendly hell.

- Unit producing building should be warp rifts (cool-looking floating FX, which actually saves you a lot of 3D headaches if you have a good FX editor guy). I'd handle them like IG building + Monolith + Ork Banner, meaning that it should be dedicated to spawning most units (but each unit needs an add-on, like aspect shrines/IG buildings) + increase pop cap + tech up (like banners). I'd leave HQ as a bigger rift used for spawning builders/heroes/elites/relics.

- I don't know what I'd call LPs (Dark Places? Shrines?), but their main use would be to cap rifts, like some mods use Obelisks to cap generators for Necrons or HQs to cap production buildings in general. That way it's easy to represent the expansion of the warp rifts, since you are going to want to build them as far as possible into the map and also prevent turtling. LPs should be the weakest link in the Daemon war(p) machine (kinda like Protoss pylons). A warp rift that loses the LP where it was built should suffer a huge penalty. Maybe not stop working, but a huge decrease in building speed should be in order. I'd also make them defenseless other than their HP that could be upgraded.

- Altars would be a mix of Research Building + Turrets + Resource gathering. They would be structures that represent the deformation of realspace into a daemonic realm. Each altar would increase your requisition output (like Tyranid Mod's reclamation pools). The idea is to surround warp rifts with these for protection and resources. For example an altar dedicated to Khorne would fill the area with those molten rock decals around it, allow several researches to upgrade your Khorne daemons, make Khorne daemons stronger next to it and for defense purpose make enemy melee units suffer damage when hitting your buildings, for example. Tzeentch altar would throw lightning at people or shield your units and so on and so forth forth for Nurgle, Slaanesh and whatever else you want. The idea is that altars abilities should be able to stack so it could be viable to just fill your land with Nurgle altars and corrode the crap out of your enemy in a way that just combining everything isn't always the answer to everything. Altars should also get penalties if the LP on which they were built were destroyed (or in simpler terms, if they're not standing on your area of influence)

[Chiu ChunLing]

In other words, make altars and rifts kinda crappy by default and then give the LP entity an area effect ability that enables some of the effects of altars (by having the effects as weapons mounted on the altar's hardpoints, or by having them as abilities and setting the altar's default modifiers set to disable them) and boosts production speed of rifts? It's at least possible. Big, warp-spawny decals and ground effects around rifts are also a warpy idea.

[Gambit]

A great idea is formulating here....
I have many things in mind, but I assume it would be best for us to wait for Cylarne's arrival so that our suggestions are not in vain.
After his return, he will orchestrate the team and its goals, thus our focus.

Ah,... I also think that "Altar" is better than "Shrine".

[RMX]

I don't mind if it's in vain. I'm doing it for fun.

[Gambit]

@RMX: Yes, that is very true... Fun, is the reason all of us are here, is it not?

[Cylarne_04]

Hey-hey, now this is what I call contribution! Yes, me was gone for a bit, an' me is back!

So I might as well screw the entire idea of Demon Pits and Sacrificial Circles afterall (they were only place holders anyway and Chaos already have those), 'cause the warp is as always an epic demonic source. But I'm still not sure about the resource thing going on here, in fact I'm a bit confoosed.

Shrine-Based Economy
- I think that neither requisition nor power, qualify for Daemon resources. I suggest remove the plasma generators idea completely, keep strategic points, now representing the daemonic scourge spreading upon the mortal realm, and build shrines on strategic points.

So Demons don't need power or requisition, instead they have altars which increase the production of units and structures? Ah... maybe, although, I already have a unique resource system set up (Meaning different from every other faction known)... I'm not sure if I should revamp my entire code again, but I'll think about it.

My only concern is...
1. Possible?
2. Balanced?
3. No requisition or power is shown by the game screen.
4. Worth the risk?

Like Tyranids, Daemons should be centered around taking over the map and gradually turning it into a warp-friendly hell.

Already half done I think. Except the buildings the Demons produce are not Warpy right now, but Warp Portals can be summoned by your HQ heh heh, which is awesome.

Each shrine should have a different name, shape and effect, corresponding to each of the four (or five) gods (i.e. Corruption, Slaughter etc.).

Thankfully, that is my goal. Just infinite here and there. Like the Demon Altar of Slaanesh, Tzeentch, blah blah blah. Maybe each of the D(a)emon Gods will be allowed production once a specific Shrine/Altar such as via above is constructed (Keeper of Secrets, Bloodthirster, etc...). If not separate Shrines/Altars (because who wants 5 different frigg'in LP's in their build menu?), add-ons will do the trick and will go great for the ai especially.

LPs should be the weakest link in the Daemon war(p) machine (kinda like Protoss pylons). A warp rift that loses the LP where it was built should suffer a huge penalty. Maybe not stop working, but a huge decrease in building speed should be in order. I'd also make them defenseless other than their HP that could be upgraded.

You lost me.

In other words, make altars and rifts kinda crappy by default and then give the LP entity an area effect ability that enables some of the effects of altars (by having the effects as weapons mounted on the altar's hardpoints, or by having them as abilities and setting the altar's default modifiers set to disable them) and boosts production speed of rifts?

I'm still lost.

@Vain: Oh well.

@boothy-p: Err... no harm done? I didn't really want to blow your spirit of modding bro.
@RMX: I believe I forgot to reply thanks.
@Chiu ChunLing: You got my PM this time right?

[Gambit]

Good to have you back Cylarne. We really missed you.
Now, on to other things (I'm starting getting sentimental now...):

Economy
I agree with RMX (it was my initial idea as well) about gradually "sacrificing" the map to the warp (much like Tyranids that consume it) and I see that you're aiming at that direction. So, there is NO need to change what you have already made, but I would be happy if you shared it with us so that we could make "optimizing" suggestions.
On the other hand, I think that implementing "corruption" as a resource, would be easy if you use the Necrons economy mechanism, and just rename (is it possible through UI modification?) the power resource as "Chaos/Warp Corruption" (or something). This is totally compatible with RMX's idea of gradually offering the map to the warp, if, instead of building power generators, you reroute the resource input to SPs and shrines/altars built upon them. The % percentage (of the Necrons economy) would then be left to our imagination about what could that be...

[RMX]

@Cylarne


@Gambit. In the end what you are asking is Requisition + Necron time. It's not a bad idea but I think just regular Req and no power (like Nids) works. We don't need to go as far as making a completely original economy for Daemons. If you want make Strategic Points generate Souls instead of Requisition and everything Daemon to cost souls. Or rather, do a mix of requisition and souls and make altars generate souls (and make kills by altars to generate extra souls, like sacrificing stuff to the gods). In the end it's just a matter of what you want to call them.

[Gambit]

@RMX: I agree with you friend, no need to go too far. It's just me, tossing some ideas on the table aiming to the best outcome.
With simplicity in mind, I think that your idea of structures around SPs complicates things (kinda reminds me DOWII). I would include all possible effects (be it resources, defenses, etc.) to the LPs themselves. LPs inherent abilities make things less code-demanding.
But if this is possible and not too time-consuming, I think I like it!

[Chiu ChunLing]

The way to implement the idea of making it so that the production buildings around an LP are dependent on that LP to work well is to make it so that some of their "effects" are disabled by default, either by the building's modifier values in its entity blueprint or by having the effects be second weapons on the buildings weapon hard-points (or a combination of the two). Then you create a passive ability for the LP that applies modifiers to your entities inside the area of effect (much the way the Eldar Webgate Veil works). You can apply pretty much any kind or degree of modifier in this way, and you could have global modifiers in the LP entity blueprint (or a second, larger radius ability for the LP). There is no difficulty about making it so that your LP's apply the same production and reinforce time modifiers as the Necron Obelisk:

GameData["modifier_apply_ext"]["modifiers"]["modifier_04"] = Reference([[modifiers\research_time_player_modifier.lua]])
GameData["modifier_apply_ext"]["modifiers"]["modifier_04"]["value"] = -0.10000
GameData["modifier_apply_ext"]["modifiers"]["modifier_05"] = Reference([[modifiers\reinforce_time_player_modifier.lua]])
GameData["modifier_apply_ext"]["modifiers"]["modifier_05"]["value"] = -0.10000
GameData["modifier_apply_ext"]["modifiers"]["modifier_06"] = Reference([[modifiers\recruit_time_player_modifier.lua]])
GameData["modifier_apply_ext"]["modifiers"]["modifier_06"]["value"] = -0.10000
GameData["modifier_apply_ext"]["modifiers"]["modifier_07"] = Reference([[modifiers\applied_bonus_player_modifier.lua]])
GameData["modifier_apply_ext"]["modifiers"]["modifier_07"]["value"] = 20.00000

Or whatever effects you want to apply globally as a result of having LPs (stacking the modifiers or not is also something to consider). If you want a modifier to apply only to buildings in the control radius of an LP, then you need to put them in the area effect of an ability instead...or you could give the LP a veil of darkness extension only use different modifiers than the usual ones.

GameData["veil_of_darkness_ext"]["area_effect"]["weapon_damage"]["modifiers"] and put the modifiers you want to apply instead of the veil of darkness.

[RMX]

What about altar effects, Chiu? Does the game engine allow to choose wether to stack bonuses or upgrade them?

Imagine I build a Nurgle Altar around my point. That should give a defense penalty to enemy infantry. This for example would make the altar enable a disabled effect on the LP. Now I build another Nurgle Altar around the same point. Having 2 Nurgle Altars would give slight damage over time over infantry + reduce defense on both infantry and vehicle. Can you make it so having 2 altars enables the 'level 2' effect on the LP as well?

[Chiu ChunLing]

I thought we were doing the opposite, where the altars and stuff would be disabled in the absence of an LP. Oh well, you can work it both ways. The game allows you to specify whether a modifier stacks with other instances of the same modifier or not, but modifers that have different sources always stack even if they are the same type and both are set to not stack...the lack of stacking only works between instances of the same actual modifier.

Making it so that being subject to two instances of the same modifier enables a different effect rather than just doubling the effect of a single modifier depends on choosing the right modifier. For the effect you describe, making it so that the proximity of two Nurgle Altars would give a distinct "level 2" effect, I think that I'd use a stacking "default_weapon_modifier_hardpoint[n]". Each instance of a nearby altar would push up the default weapon on hardpoint[n] of the LP. You can only have four weapons per hardpoint, and the first should be a dummy or something that doesn't require an altar, because the first nearby altar will increase the default weapon index by at least one, meaning weapon two would be your "level 1" effect, weapon three would be the "level 2" effect, and the top level would be "level 3". I can't at the moment remember what happens when you keep going, I believe that it just maxes out at weapon four rather than rolling over back to weapon one (can't think of a reason it would do that, either). You'd need to test that...I mean, obviously you have to test everything.

If the "level 2" effect just needs to be a stronger version of the "level 1" effect, then you can just stack the effects and not worry about working through the weapon hardpoints.

[RMX]

No, i was just checking what could be done. In the end I'm just giving suggestions of how it could work. It all depends on the team who's going to do all the work.

[Cylarne_04]

PS (to all):

Demons Mod Team

I'm the only team member. Trix!

Oh I forgot to say I'm adding one of the resource ideas to the addition, I made up my mind. Which one though? He he he.

[RMX]

Sorry. I'm too lazy and terrible to be of any help.

[Cylarne_04]

@RMX: oO.

@RMX, Chiu, and Gambit: During the implementation of the new resource ideas, it is OK. Leaving the LPs useless with no resources to gather; but instead creating an aura of bonuses to build time does NOT work well with ai. The ai builds the "warp Portals" and spams them over and over with tiering up immediately in less than three minutes, it was hell, it was the Apocalypse. And with the bonus of no required requisition or power, the demons do get a little bit out of balance because they spam huge amounts of structures and those quantity of structures begin to create large quantity units even though at a slow rate. The more LPs you build with Warp Portal bonuses decreasing the time cost of all things, it is f**king fun to play with demons as you are the most unstoppable bad a** out there. I like the idea, but as it turns out, requisition must at least be included.

[Gambit]

OK Cylarne, you know we all trust you. We hope to successfully inspire and help you in the daemon resources task.
Can't wait to see how you will put it all together!

Ah!... I also think that Daemons SHOULD be a race you do not f**k with (hehe)!!
Moreover, uniqueness is something this race is defined by, so I expect a different kind of play...

[Chiu ChunLing]

I'm not against having the Demons need requisition (though perhaps you could refer to it as something else in your descriptions and so forth) and power...power would definitely be needed for creating warp portals and summoning demons without a huge local supply of corrupted psykers to posses (maybe make corrupted psykers a resource? I have no idea how to do that, though).

[Gambit]

@Chiu ChunLing: I couldn't agree more.

[Chiu ChunLing]

Or you could have corrupted psykers be your builder unit, they'd all float and shoot lightning out of their eyes and stuff to build things, but they'd have really low morale (or a high break value) to keep them from being a useful front-line unit. They'd be your main mobile detectors, though, since warp-spawn can't be expected to have good perception of normal reality. Conversely, some of your buildings could have detection to represent the difficulty of hiding normally in close proximity to the warp.

[Cylarne_04]

Or maybe Possessed Psyckers. He he he.

[Gambit]

Good call, Cylarne and Chiu ChunLing. I very much like the possessed psykers approach.
The Daemonic powers of the warp, cannot easily open a planar rift (breach) to the material universe, so they need corrupted-->possessed mortals. Thus, the whole concept of possessed psykers is very close to the WH universe structure, fluff-wise.

[Chiu ChunLing]

I don't know a thing about modeling though, so no idea what you do to make it so that a psyker uses one of his ability animations when he's building (or repairing). Someone must know...it's got to be easier than a lot of the things I've seen from people around here.

[Pedro]

It dont have to be possessed psykers. it could be possessed anything, seeing that the demon can alter the form of the beeing possessed aswell as exhibiting its own brand of powers. And its logical that a demon would want to bring more of its kind through so it would be in a position to do some serious damage and not just look over its shoulder for the ordo malleus all the time.
I dont see why it would need be a psyker, and wouldent having psykers running around with the daemon army be kinda contrary to the army itself? I mean why wouldent those daemons just eat the poor little psyker in their midst, hehe. I mean a daemon army with only daemons AND a few human psykers sound a little strange. Offcource if its possessed that problem dont exist no more as its not really a psyker its a daemon inhibiting the shell of a mortal. Meh i dont know enough abouth the daemon army and ive never read any codex abouth it. Psykers can be possessed right of the bat though when they float in the warp though, while to possess a blunt the daemon would need to be present in our world to start with. Both works i reckon.

[Cylarne_04]

So then what do you think should be the builder unit you recommend?

[Chiu ChunLing]

You could go the route the Tyranids mod used and have something like a floating ball of psychic essence going around and doing the buildings. Most armies have pretty menial builder units, but it certainly doesn't seem fluffy to have some kind of menial demon that can nevertheless open warp-rifts from the physical universe side. Instead call it a "Delirium Specter" or "Psychosis Elemental" or "Warpfires", and describe it as a manifestation of dark impulses of the mortal mind. It could be little more than a floating chaos flame effect and still be kinda cool as a builder unit. If it's a mod for Soulstorm you can use the "autobuild" setting so that the structures just build themselves once the builder touches them.

[Pedro]

Chius idea is good. tearing open a warpgate would probably take alot of power and any beeing capable of dooing so would hardly be fit for a builder unit. But chius idea circumvents that by putting the builder in a special type of role. The other logical option is for some sort of possessed human/psyker/whatnot or an actual demon to run around dooing some sort of ritual to open up the gates. Cultists, sorcerers, chaos marines or other maniacs use rituals and ceremonies to open up portals all the time in warhammer lore so i reckon a possessed mortal/lesser demon could pull it off aswell. Then it wouldent be the builder units own power that opens up the portal but that of the ritual itself. Could have the "builder demon" run around and act like the dark eldar builder unit in that it dont have to stay at the build site it works on its own. ANd when a building starts to build a bunch of cultists spawns around it praying and holding hands and all that. That would symbolice a smart demon that goes around starting cults etc, getting others to do the dirty work for him while he lurks in the shadows. Heh, but maybe not that fitting. Anyway lot of concepts that could be made to work here. A good wording and some nice graphics usually makes everything tolerable.

[Cylarne_04]

Hmm... it could work. As long as the builder essense is demonic, I don't really mind. But no Cultists or Marines should build them in my opinion, unless of course we make a model out of a heretic for say and give it possessed arms and head. Breath flames... oh yeah!

But yeah, definitely could use some screenies on this thread. I know at least 3/4 of you have no idea what I'm accomplishing for the Demons race.

[Pedro]

Yeah i didnt mean that cultists or marines should, i was just refering to things ive read hehe. Also depends how much modeling and fx work you want to do. I personally think that the allready made cultist would work fine standing in a circle around the coming warp rift, shouting out blasphemous words and dooing heinious things (in theory lol) and offcource right before the rift opens they would need to die spectacularly to power the rift, thats pretty much how most rituals go, alot of mumbo jambo and some blood. And lo, behold there it is, the beautiful rift. My problem is i dont know how a demon army would come through on its own, ive never read abouth it. There are always some ritual, some chaos marine or whatnot that opens up a portal and here they come. I think maybe that in the ultramarines series there was a demon prince of some sort that had an army of demons brough through, hmm. Wonder how he did it. Anyway the easiest thing to do would be to go the way of the tyranids, with some warp phenomenom traveling around thinning the barrier between the worlds where it goes. (like chiu said) My only problem with that is that it is somewhat unrealistic to me, because that is simply never done. It can only happen in very special places where the warp are allready present. But i digress. It is a good idea and probably the easiest to implement.

[Chiu ChunLing]

Well, all the armies can only fight in the special circumstance of that army's race having a significant military presence around. And it's not like the game engine prohibits, for instance, a couple of Tau armies facing off against each other, even though this is strictly non-fluffy. You could just say that, whatever map the demons are playing on, it's become corrupted by a warp-storm or whatever. You could model the HQ on this idea, that it is a kind of initial breach...perhaps even make it unbuildable by the Demons player (to compensate, it should be really tough).

[Pedro]

That is true. Everything do just pop up in whatever map you are currently playing so we do take things for granted for everyone heh. Shouldent be a problem for demons either. Comes down to if you want a direct or indirect builder unit i reckon.
Im good with both.

[RMX]

If you have a HQ (a main rift), then the invasion has already started, so you can make a builder demon if you want. You need someone more well versed in the ways of the fluff for this one, or just improvise (it's not like Relic and ILE haven't already). I have a question. Can you make a building also a builder? That way you could make it builder-less as well.

[Cylarne_04]

I have a question. Can you make a building also a builder? That way you could make it builder-less as well.

That is what I SO DESPERATELY want to achieve.

[Croaxleigh]

Cylarne, my friend... I've got several daemon models in various states of completion somewhere on my hard drive. If you're interested I'll see what I can dig up. I know there was a Soul Grinder in there at least, and a few friends of Nurgle as well.

As far as making buildings into builders, I'm pretty sure that it's possible. It's a lot easier to make a unit into a "building" for that purpose, though.

I'd pass along the mod notes and discussions for "Something Wicked This Way Comes", too, but unfortunately a lot of the notes were lost to a hard drive crash a year or two back and the Modthing forum where the discussion took place has essentially been mothballed.

[Cylarne_04]

@Croaxleigh: O...M...F...G! Welcome back! I thought you were gone from that Do not Go Gentle Message?

I'm glad I made a good impression, I just love the Demons race a bit too much really and I want them in action! And I am most DEFINITELY interested in especially the Soul Grinder and my pm box is open. And Croax, my friend, yer awesome! Thank you!!!

Feel free to "Beta test" at any time if you're interested.

[Croaxleigh]

I'm not really around much these days, but I've been meaning to go through my art assets for a while now and post up some half-finished models and the like for others to use. I need to send the Epic Mod stuff to Heretic, too, but I'll see what sort of daemon-stuffs I can wrangle up for you.

[Gambit]

We are glad for your contribution Croaxleigh. Cylarne is trying his best to make this race possible, thus any help is very much appreciated.
Thanks again, brother.