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First pictures of new Necron units

  1. #51
    Member Aesaar's Avatar
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    Holy crap, they actually managed to make the Necrons a little interesting. I didn't see that coming at all. New infantry models look quite nice too (Flayed Ones are meh, but Deathmarks look badass). Not sold on the look of the vehicles, but we'll see.

  2. #52
    Member Ewokz's Avatar
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    Well shit so the C'tan have basically been removed from the fluff, what a terrible move. I'm all for the Crons new background/identity but them killing/shredding the C'tan makes little to no sense, C'tan are meant to be literal masters of the material universe. I can't believe that they would one; allow their servants to create and mass weapons designed to kill them and two; for them to throw themselves at the Old ones till they were too few in number to remain in control of their legions. Using the C'tan in such a throw away manner, after making it clear how insanely strong and intelligent they are seems cheap TBH.

    Lastly if their empire was spread across the entire galaxy, where were the (younger and more advanced) Old ones and their spawn based? Recon'ing so much of the past fluff like this is gonna leave big holes in everything by the looks of it, quite annoying.
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  3. #53
    OMg, they took out the C tans? really? really? that was the best part of necrons, void dragon, nightbringer wtf? wtf? who going to kill our smurfs to near extinction now?
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  4. #54
    @overmind 2000 - Which is why Tyranids have personalities, hold alliances and are generally quite easy to talk to, right? Oh wait.

    And model personification could EASILY have been added to the old necrons. Armies who served different major c'tan could have had different looks and weapons (with army preferences and more bitz choices creating even more diversity), and individual lords could have scraps of personality to differentiate themselves or even (only a very few, powerful individuals) try to break away from their overlords. But this? This just cheapens both the C'tan and the necrons in one blow. The C'tan, material gods who before were feared enough to be compared to the Grim Reaper, are now stupid enough to have gotten themselves killed by their own powers and weak enough to have been undone by their servants, while the necrons now are whiny brats who squabble with one another, are afraid enough of their enemies to have gone into hiding (hell even Chaos, one of the most misused sides in the setting, doesn't have that), and who just want to be human again. Now they're like grumpty robot Eldar mixed with Pinocchio.

  5. #55
    Member Ewokz's Avatar
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    Their still in there, but those C'tan that have been seen so far are just shards of the original C'tan, much like avatars are shards of Khaine. A well played Powerfist will probably end one now

    Personally I liked having this giant ancient evil hovering over the galaxy, just waiting for its time to reclaim what was theirs. The idea that without the Old ones, it was only a matter of time until they achieved domination due to their unmatchable power and intelligence was a major reason I liked the C'tan being added to the game, added a new angel to the 40k universe that wasn't there before. It was a different form of grim which didn't involve being overrun by hordes of enemies but instead being beaten by a literally unstoppable force, and it was only a matter of when you were going to be enslaved or annihilated.

    It also added a history of sorts to the mix, with the past holding wars that would put those currently taking place to shame. The Eldar fighting the rivals of their creators was quite interesting as well, they were utterly out matched but they continued to fight on inspite of their inevitable demise at the hands of the C'tan.

    The new fluff just seems to remove the despair and put the Crons on a fairly even standing with everyone else, sure they might have powerful weaponry but the C'tan were literally invulnerable and Immortal. Without them whats so scary about the gates of Varl, why did Varl even make the Blackstone Fortress's, why did the deceiver "shard" bother starting the Gothic war if the Blackstone's weren't the only threat to its existence etc.

    Another thing to wonder is why the hell did the Crons go into their tombworlds? Their plan was to take all their military strength, and then hide it so the Eldar could build a giant technologically advanced empire while they were gone? WTF that doesn't even make sense. They thought they'd be able to take the Eldar if they bunked their forces, which would slowly decay for millions of years while the Eldar could rebuild and expand. Clever.
    Last edited by Ewokz; 16th Oct 11 at 4:58 PM.

  6. #56
    Member Open Blue's Avatar
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    I think I'm less miffed about the new fluff (it's actually kinda interesting), but more that they're ret-conning a stuff out of existence and even changing the goal posts on some of the existing stuff. Sure SILENT HATE METAL IN SPACE was getting sort of old the moment they released it, but I think in their haste to give them some more personality, they over-shot it and effectively turned them into every other race. Soulless foot troops, but leaders with personality? Thousand Sons. Stupidly strong weapons for even their basic troops? Tau. All part of a larger empire, but each with their own nuanced culture and history? Space marines (or every other race ever).

    Yes, they are tomb kings in space, but I wish they didn't have to chew half the existing fluff to pieces to get there.
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  7. Tabletop Senior Member Company of Heroes Senior Member Forum Subscriber  #57
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    Their still in there, but those C'tan that have been seen so far are just shards of the original C'tan, much like avatars are shards of Khaine. A well played Powerfist will probably end one now
    I would think it's pretty likely they won't even be a statted unit in the codex any more, which is a good thing, because trying to stat a god was an utterly, mind-bogglingly, stupid idea in the first place. There's no room on 40k tables for gods. When you put a god on the field and it gets obliterated by 2 hive tyrants or something stupid, it's hardly a gleaming recommendation for their divinity. The shards fluff actually makes those old statlines make more sense, since they obviously had to water down the ingame power level by a factor of thousands just to put it in the codex in the first place.

  8. #58
    Member Ewokz's Avatar
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    trying to stat a god was an utterly, mind-bogglingly, stupid idea in the first place
    It would of been best if they'd never taken the C'tan to the tabletop and kept them similar to the Emperor and the Primarch's, never on the table but fundamental to the fluff of the race. They were beings that could turn cities to dust with a thought and at their weakest they hung around in stars; nothing on the tabletop can even rival the power of a star, and such power merely feeds the C'tan. It'll be like throwing food at your enemy even if you could use such weapons. There isn't so much as battles against them as total annihilation, or surrender and be eaten. If the Crons showed there was at least had some hope, if the C'tan showed up its just GG.

    they over-shot it and effectively turned them into every other race.
    Totally agree, they just seem like every race that doesn't field a horde. In terms of "ancient technologically advanced, we own the young races" they sound very DE, minus all the interesting flaws and biological stuff.
    Last edited by Ewokz; 16th Oct 11 at 5:16 PM.

  9. #59
    Wasn't it called the essence of the night bringer, it wasn't literary the night bringer but a essence of him, was it not? Taking out c tan relaly blow my mind on how necron are now. Now it seem they are dungeon lords that convent treasure in some cave some where. Don't seem like the deadly locust of death as before. Wow..

  10. #60
    The Shards route does indeed make much more sense. The whole "It's a god that devoured suns, but I killed it with my bolter" thing always irritated me. The energy levels just living on a sun are indescribably higher that what a battlefield weapon even in WH40K would carry...

    Now they went from being silent Terminators, to Terminators that can say "F*** you ***hole" I approve of the new personalitied Necrons.
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  11. #61
    @Salesman - Om nom nom is a personality
    But Nids do/did have personalities - Norn Queens are typically filling that role (with most players liking to represent either an existing or their own "hive fleet") and in the older fluff/dex's we had genestealer cultists as well.

  12. #62
    @overmind2000 - Which is why I fully supported letting the Necron lords gain some sentience. Hell, they could even have had internal battles over the favor of the C'tan or powerful lords could even try breaking away from the C'tan's control. But this is like the Tyranids suddenly deciding that they don't want to eat worlds anymore but instead want to form empires, trade with their neighbors and basically acting more like a weird version of the Tau rather than just omnoming everything. That's the point of the race - they're the biological horde of doom, consuming everything in their path. The necrons were, similarly, the most advanced and mysterious of the alien races - forgotten horrors that had returned, using weapons beyond the understanding of any race in existence to exterminate the weaklings that had "infested" the galaxy to feed their shadowy gods. Now they're just older, more emo eldar.

    BTW I would have fully supported A) stopping the C'tan from being behind everything and B) allowed the Tyranids to fight the Necrons somehow, since a) kept the C'tan from being as mysterious as they should have been and b) made Tyranids vs. Necrons a curbstomp battle in the fluff.
    Last edited by Salesman; 16th Oct 11 at 9:49 PM.

  13. #63
    The necrons were, similarly, the most advanced and mysterious of the alien races - forgotten horrors that had returned, using weapons beyond the understanding of any race in existence to exterminate the weaklings that had "infested" the galaxy to feed their shadowy gods. Now they're just older, more emo eldar.
    Exactly, I'm still hopping they are keeping some of this maybe? Can the necron lord still turn into night bringer. Also what about the Outsider?

  14. #64
    Sword Munkeh in Spaaaace Sword_Monkey's Avatar
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    WHATINTHEHELLJUSTHAPPENED? One moment there were crappy old school T100-Necron with no rules, then there were cool new green-gauss-gun Necron with the super badass C'tan, and now following the curve of awesomeification exponentially we have Necron with personality.

    I'm a bit gobsmacked at what I'm seeing. At first I was horrified at the fluff hints that the C'tan were pretty much gone, as I'd been waiting years and years for the continuation of C'tan story, and in fact a how lot of peril for the galaxy at large. The Outsider and Void Dragon were sounding awesome from the snippits of fluff we had and the sparse codex was begging for more units and rules. Now I'm overjoyed by what they've done, naturally I would have been nerdraging at GW if they'd scrubbed out old fluff and replacing it with something mediocre, but mein gott! Just look at the thematics in the imagery, the new personality the Necron might have. This mention of 'Valor' amongst some of them! I'm imagining Necron Knights, with an Egyptian twist.

    The old Necron were a nice visual addition to the tabletop, but this is building so much upon that, and by the looks of things it is coming with a whole host of new options that resemble the 2nd/3rd edition Chaos codex. Special characters, seperate factions, Independent characters that can be attached to units, wargear, elite retinues.

    What can I say, I'm excited, and it's may well have been years since I posted in TT, so yeah.

    PS: HI BOWKERS, screw SM let's make some noble Necrontyr knights of awesome.

  15. #65
    Member klaymen_sk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ewokz View Post
    Another thing to wonder is why the hell did the Crons go into their tombworlds? Their plan was to take all their military strength, and then hide it so the Eldar could build a giant technologically advanced empire while they were gone? WTF that doesn't even make sense. They thought they'd be able to take the Eldar if they bunked their forces, which would slowly decay for millions of years while the Eldar could rebuild and expand. Clever.
    Everything is as planned. Necrons went sleeping, the Eldar had their empire and Tzeentch tricked them to create Slaanesh to kill them, Necrons awake after it to go on a rampage, now Tzeeny unleashes some warp rust on them so the Chaos spikey guys can kill them with ease, which sends Tzeentch's ultimate plan to its next stage. Makes perfect sense.
    Oh wait....
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  16. #66
    Member Thorno's Avatar
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    I'm confused. Has the Enslaver Plague chunk of the lore been removed?

  17. #67
    What about blanks, are blanks gone? Is that whole chunk of lore gone too?

  18. #68
    Well the C'tan are apparently gone so... Uh.... Damn good question.
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  20. #70
    Sister of silence gone, several heroes gone O_o, serveral fights with several different factions where they use blanks to weaken the pyskers defenses gone !! My EMPEROR what has happen!!.

  21. #71
    Sword Munkeh in Spaaaace Sword_Monkey's Avatar
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    We'll wait for the codex release to see exactly what has gone. Whilst I do think blanks and enslaver plague will be gone, I won't bet on it just yet, it may be that they have been rewritten along with the C'tan. I'm also worried about C'tan phase blades.

    But let's keep calm and not jump into wild conjecture mode.

    PS It's only logical that they make Necrosquats now.

  22. Tabletop Senior Member Company of Heroes Senior Member Forum Subscriber  #72
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    Sister of silence gone, several heroes gone O_o, serveral fights with several different factions where they use blanks to weaken the pyskers defenses gone !! My EMPEROR what has happen!!.
    Dude.

    Calm the fuck down.

    Seriously.

  23. Tabletop Senior Member  #73
    What a handsome fella AridMonk's Avatar
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    This change in the fluff (if it is true, I mean come on people this is still very much unconfirmed) is actually making me want to collect Necrons. The old codex and the "We are the generic robot pplz" thing they had going on was so fucking boring, and now they have personality and goals, the awkwardness of killing a GOD with Multi Lasers and pew pew lasguns being gone (I am so in favour of this whole "shard" idea) and some sweet looking new models is making me want to march down to GW on release day and buy that shit up.

    A lot of you dudes need to chill out, this is looking like the best revamp GW has done is a long time, makes more sense fluff wise, game wise and will be well received in the long run I am very very sure.

  24. #74
    Member Dark_Avenger's Avatar
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    I don't see why blanks would be gone... I just came into this interested in all the fluff I went through this: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Void_Dragon#.Tpx47psyhiI

    A
    nd after a crap ton of reading through the other articles related to it all I don't see where any of you are coming from. The current lore says that Necrons originated by making a pact with the C'tan so that they could fight the old ones because they were jealous of the fact that they have mastered the warp to obtain immortality while they live within the confines of a radiating sun which drastically shortens their lifespan. The old ones being amazingly psychic beings they used this to their advantage against them.

    So lots of fights happen and stuff and the Necrons win with the power of the C'tan. In the new fluff, the Necrons turn on the C'tan after they beat the old ones (or maybe way later, I haven't looked to far into the new stuff yet), and now the only difference is that they want to re-establish themselves as the nation they once were, and possibly to transfer their minds into living beings.

    The C'tan still exist, they are only mere demigods, not quite the power they once were in the fluff (But that's not saying that they can't be pretty powerful).

    As for blanks and all that imperium lore, here's a quote from the lexicanum:

    Pariahs are believed to have been created and seeded into the human population by the Necrons as part of their plan to remove all taint of Chaos from the galaxy. Recently, the forces of the C'tan known as theDeceiver have created a new variety of Necron Warrior that is a terrible blend of machine and organic components, forged from Pariahs and named after them. These Necron Pariahs are undoubtedly the first glimpses of the C'tan's ultimate plan for the galaxy.
    Take C'tan out of there and replace it with just Necrons, and it still sort of works. Necrons planted the seeds so that blanks could exists because they don't like psykers or the warp.

    I don't know where all these crazy conclusions are coming from.

  25. #75
    Member Ewokz's Avatar
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    With or without he enslaver plague it seems incredibly dumb for the Crons to hibernate, they only originally did so due to the C'tan requiring food, without them the Crons would of just wiped out the already massively weakened and demoralized races and rebuilt their empire.

    This change in the fluff (if it is true, I mean come on people this is still very much unconfirmed) is actually making me want to collect Necrons. The old codex and the "We are the generic robot pplz" thing they had going on was so fucking boring, and now they have personality and goals, the awkwardness of killing a GOD with Multi Lasers and pew pew lasguns being gone (I am so in favour of this whole "shard" idea) and some sweet looking new models is making me want to march down to GW on release day and buy that shit up.
    I'd agree with you on most points but as Rusty mentioned they seem to have over shot and taken a large amount from the races background. Personally I would have moved in this direction while retaining the C'tan, having whole tracts of the Necron empire being rogue and after its original goals of survival before the C'tan took control. I would have shifted the race into a more unwilling servant role with them constantly attempting rebellion. In the past the vast number of C'tan could keep the Legions of Cron under their control, using the Crons metal bodies as prisons to control them. In the current time however the vast loss of C'tan life and the massive legions of Crons still around, the C'tan can barely control a small percentage of them; with the rest following ancient and personal goals. A great many Crons probably still remain that have a deceased C'tan master and as such have no god to be dominated by, and many that have such masters are still unwilling allies to them, resisting them off when they come to reclaim their tomb worlds and armies.

    You could imagine some vast war against the galaxy and the slowly spreading influence of the C'tan, while the crons slowly awaken more and more, expanding, rebuilding and resisting there past enemies and masters. Would have allowed the Fluff to move in this interesting way, while retaining the godlike C'tan and their history. It would also have allowed them to put the C'tan in a more backround position, away from the tabletop and more as the sinister giant shadow that they should have been from the start.



    EDIT:

    Take C'tan out of there and replace it with just Necrons, and it still sort of works. Necrons planted the seeds so that blanks could exists because they don't like psykers or the warp.

    I don't know where all these crazy conclusions are coming from.

    But why? The necrons could have annihilated the galaxy at the end of the war in heaven, there was no motivation for them to hibernate in stasis for millions of years. Food was originally the reason and the Pariah gene seeding was a way to retain some sort of backup encase of future psychic threats, the only weakness of the C'tan.
    Other bits of fluff from the gates and moons of Varl make little sense without the C'tan, as well as the idea that the C'tan would be dumb enough to commit suicide against an enemy that they personally had no disdain for. They were in it for the food, the Crons were originally primitive slaves from the start, even if they didn't know it. Making the C'tan and Cron equals just seems off, it cheapens the whole idea of the C'tan and in turn the Oldones and the whole wars in heaven.

  26. #76
    Member Dark_Avenger's Avatar
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    What's the timeline for them turning on the C'tan? Could it have been millions of years after stasis? Or immediately after they finished the war with the old ones?

  27. #77
    Member Ewokz's Avatar
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    Well it went War in Heaven ---> enslaver plague ----> stasis to avoid starvation -----> 40k

    No doubt a few worlds have woken up in the past but most are slowly arising now, if they had woken up prior to now and removed the C'tan why wouldn't they have started rebuilding their empire then instead of going back to bed for another age or two?

  28. #78
    Spawn wrangler SilverTabby's Avatar
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    Has anyone actually read the fluff yet? Or is this all conjecture based on rumour...?

    Seriously, some people need to calm down til they've actually read the book...
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  29. #79
    Member Ewokz's Avatar
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    The rumors just seem to smack of the somewhat awfully thought out fluff that's been appearing over the last few codex's, course as you said its just rumor's at the moment, but still it would be quite a big fuck-up to say the C'tan are mostly being recon'd and it then not being true. And who's not being calm, if I'm conveying emotion in my posts its not intentional. I'm more curious as to where they're going with this than I am annoyed (so far ). I'm mostly just pointing out the various holes in 40k background if this turns out to be true.

  30. Tabletop Senior Member  #80
    What a handsome fella AridMonk's Avatar
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    The guy who has leaked this has been wrong before. So not as big a fuckup as you may think.

  31. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #81
    Californication . . . Gorb's Avatar
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    Ewokz, there are always holes in the 40k backstory, for every race. Some critical parts of 40k history come down to various stupidly-powerful beings acting like idiots

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ewokz
    Well it went War in Heaven ---> enslaver plague ----> stasis to avoid starvation -----> 40k
    Well now it looks more like:
    Necrontyr Empire--->Necrontyr attack Old Ones, lose, find C'Tan and become Necrons--->War in Heaven--->Old Ones are killed by the C'Tan--->C'Tan killed by Necrons--->Young races nerdrage--->Some warp thing happens (Enslaver plauge maybe)--->Stasis untill young races die out.

    The C'Tan are background only but there are still C'Tan shareds as Elites in the army.

  33. #83
    Member Ewokz's Avatar
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    Necrontyr Empire--->Necrontyr attack Old Ones, lose, find C'Tan and become Necrons--->War in Heaven--->Old Ones are killed by the C'Tan--->C'Tan killed by Necrons--->Young races nerdrage--->Some warp thing happens (Enslaver plauge maybe)--->Stasis untill young races die out.
    Doesn't make sense for them to hide while the enslavers wipe the slate though, they are a highly technological race, why wait for millions of year while new races reclaim the galaxy and tech up? Wouldn't it have made more sense to take the galaxy themselves, the enslavers couldn't exactly do anything to the Crons so they were hardly a threat; more of a trump card for battles against psychic races TBH.

    Ewokz, there are always holes in the 40k backstory, for every race. Some critical parts of 40k history come down to various stupidly-powerful beings acting like idiots
    True but such things are usually wrapped up in layers of confusion, for one we don't know if the Emperor was trying to start the HH for instance, such stupidity usually has some sort of explanation. The holes I'm referring too are also more of a "why did that happen?" type hole as well, the moons of varl, the gothic war etc. Those events are central to the Deciever trying to put itself and its kin in a position of Invincibility, without the C'tan those events just wouldn't of happened. It'd be like killing Horus before the HH then keeping the HH as cannon (minus Horus) It wouldn't make sense.

  34. Modding Senior Member Tabletop Senior Member Boardwars Senior Member  #84
    Californication . . . Gorb's Avatar
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    Except that it still might have? Under the orders of whatever Overlord was active at the time?

  35. #85
    Forum Farseer Akranadas's Avatar
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    Maybe there will be more reason for Necrons to fight Tyranids now.

  36. #86
    Member Ewokz's Avatar
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    Except that it still might have? Under the orders of whatever Overlord was active at the time?
    But it comes down to why would they be created in the first place? They were created to stop C'tan, designed by the Eldar god Varl. Without the motivation to create them they wouldn't have been made, and even had they been forged there would have been no reason for the Necron's to fear them. They have a single purpose, sure they can destroy worlds as well, but Eldar have plenty of tech which does that.
    Why manipulate an entire war for the destruction of something which doesn't mater? Seems somewhat pointless.

  37. #87
    So, wll the necrons still have the same style ranking? bronze gold platinum? and when one day another one just fill that rank? Will tomb spyders work the same?

  38. #88
    Member Evistro's Avatar
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    I used to play Marines, Chaos and Tau back when I played TT. But Necrons were my favorite to paint and, to me, had the most interesting background; A God feeding on their sun and they make a pact to live forever... Sounded fine to me. :/
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  39. #89
    Sword Munkeh in Spaaaace Sword_Monkey's Avatar
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    If you read the fluff leaks on Dakka Dakka from one of the earlier links you'll see that the Necron timeline has been changed to suggest that they were extremely weakened from their fight with the Old Ones, so much so the Eldar threatened to wipe them out. That's the reason why they went into stasis. The Eldar naturally hunted them down, but probably only half-heartedly, as they approached the Fall (who wants to go tomb hunting when there are hot chicks to strip with your mind powers?). The only Craftworld that stayed true to the hunt was Alaitoc apparently.

    So that part seems pretty logical.

    Saying anything about the blanks would be pure conjecture as we've heard nothing of them so far. However it was a lovely bit of fluff that helped explain Culexus assassins in a really cool way. Going on the old fluff however the Necron, or rather the C'tan had a fear of the warp and everything psychic so they made such plans to have 'blanks'. Now we have the new fluff which suggests the Necron do not use psychic powers (see Cryptek fluff) but there is no mention of anything anti-psyker. From a mercenary corporation point of view Pariahs could remain with a simple fluff explanation, so GW can keep selling them. But now I'm diving into the completely hypothetical.

  40. #90
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    I'm quite excited by the new release. It's pretty clear that the older armies go stagnant without good updating, Necrons, DE. In my area there are virtually no Tau players and I know they're hungry for an update. Chaos Space Marine players are also hungry for an update too. And based on most of the responses, about 50% of the range have inspired the majority of us, although not necessarily the same 50% of the models. (what I mean by this is that the majority of people have found positive things to say about roughly 1/2 of what's on offer.) I hope that this does inspire some players to try something new. I have a friend who owns 2k of Necrons that sit on the shelf because he was restricted to a 2 monolith warrior gun line with destroyers and scarab swarms. At least this variation should allow for some creative list building.

    And I know I made the comment on the fluff page too, but I feel it should be included here. All of those who feel like this is the end of the world, I have to say "Moar panic for the panic god!"
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  41. Tabletop Senior Member  #91
    What a handsome fella AridMonk's Avatar
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    Some new info on Dakka Dakka here, with this little snippet in it:

    Anrakyr the Traveller (they guy traveling around awakening Tomb Worlds and collecting a tithe of troops from those he does) has a few special rules, but one of them is so cool I thought I'd share it. It allows the Necron player to pick an enemy vehicle each shooting phase within 18" and on a D6 roll of 3+, the Necron player is able to fire with that vehicle as if it were his (counting as not moving for the shooting attack and ignoring any shaken/stunned results on it)...in other words he 'hacks' into the vehicle and momentarily takes control!

    I can't imagine too many people ever taking this guy over the Stormlord (although he is 50 pts cheaper), but that ability could just do some crazy things, especially in Apocalypse games where you could shoot with an enemy titan or other super-heavy vehicle!
    Which I think is just the coolest fucking thing ever.

  42. #92
    Interesting... The questions that pop in to my head:
    -if you use it on a walker, can you opt to run instead of shooting? To your guns or away from assault range?
    -what about squadrons?
    -eldar star engines, can you ram this fellow? Or move him to dangerous terrain for some immobilised results?
    -can he pop smokes to disallow next turn vehicle shooting?

    I know anwsers are not known, but, you know, brainstorming here a bit.
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  43. #93
    Not sure about the first three, but poping smoke is done in the movement phase so you won't be able to do that.

  44. #94
    My bad. I always have that problem with that...

  45. Tabletop Senior Member Company of Heroes Senior Member Forum Subscriber  #95
    Don't make me angry. Ap0k's Avatar
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    the Necron player is able to fire with that vehicle
    Assuming it's actually written like that in the rules, it means you get to take whatever shots it's normally able to take, and that's it. No running/ramming, and whether it's in a squadron is irrelevant, since it specifies vehicle in the singular.

    Either way, trying to speculate on rumoured rules without knowing the actual terms of them (or if they even exist) isn't going to be a very good idea.

  46. #96
    I remember when Necrons were new. When they were T8, 2+ Sv and rolled I'll Be Back every, single turn. When they were fluffed as fighting against the Legion of the Damned that one time: both sides fearless, silent and disappearing when they "die". When Scarabs (not "scarab swarms", "scarabs") subtracted 3 points from the AV of any vehicle they landed on (yes, "landed", yes "on").

    Yes, they had weird Egyptian collars. Yes, they had "scarabs". And, I admit, their "gauss weapons" were ridiculous. But they were a unique force. One squad (and three scarabs) was a small (perfectly legal) army in and of itself. Two squads was a full and proper army. They had their own scenarios (you could optionally use) and they were mysterious death machines.

    Then they were made into an "advanced guard" style army. Made more than solitary warriors, now they were a proper "force" that fit in with these new fangled Force Organisation charts that 40k now uses. We started to see some fluff, and that fluff made Necrons make sense as an army. And it carried the promise of more to come. Then Necrons got a codex. They got plastic miniatures. And while elements of the C'tan fluff were dumb, other elements (the Gothic War, "so that's where those swords come from", Grim Reaper, etc) were kinda cool.

    Now I'm not against the change and evolution of armies. Splitting "Undead" into "Vampire Counts" and "Tomb Kings" was one of the best changes they ever made to Fantasy (not to Blood Bowl, but that's neither here nor there). Instead of "generic zombies and skeletons and vampires and mummies - oh my!" you had two distinct factions, which both had interesting back-stories and motivations. They were unique (enough). Yes, "Mummies" got a butt-load of "expanded" (read: completely rewritten) fluff to become the "Tomb Kings" and yes, that fluff caused a lot of problems ("so, how come so many historic warhammer battles had mummies backing up vampires?"), but they came out the other end the better for it.

    But...

    40k is not fantasy. We don't have Space Dwarfs or Space Rats (anymore) and that's a good thing. "Tomb Kings In Space" (or "Space Mummies" if you're an old codger like me) strikes me as being dumb. Necrons are not (and never were) Space Mummies. I play Tomb Kings, and I play Necrons, and they play completely differently. If anything, Tomb Kings play a hell of a lot like Imperial Guard: structured orders/incantations; powerful artillery; expendable, weakling troops units that are less bad at shooting than they are at assault; lackluster counter-charge units (Ogyrns, meet Ushabti - Characters, I believe you've already been introduced); mobile fire bases, both even begin with "ch". If you could take armies made entirely of Tomb Guard and Chariots, then maybe, yeah.

    The similarities that did exist between the two races were fine and good. The Empire and the Imperium had similarities, but they were by no means the same. Making "Mummies" (Egyptian in real life) the "Tomb Kings" (an Egyptian themed army) was also fine and good. Making Necrons (killer robots in space) an Egyptian themed army just seems like it's a stretch too far. They're now a carbon clone army (or the poor man's Dark Eldar) and god help us all when the "Star Vampire Counts" who created the "Space Tomb Kings" get their own codex.

    Don't get me wrong, this isn't an angry rant. I'm just laying out my first impression, and if I've been verbose then it's only because I wanted to be very clear.

    Now, I realise that this is going to come across as shameless toadying but it's how I honestly feel:

    Dawn of War (Dark Crusade) got Necrons right. Fielding C'tan in 40k was dumb. A Necron Lord using "Aspect of the Night Bringer" was beautiful. Necrons as the silent terrors intent on wiping out all life - even down to the biological level - was great. The wargear for the Necron Lord, the solid reliability of Necron Warriors, single unit "old-style" scarabs and swarms of attack scarabs, rampant teleportation - Dawn of War was a fantastic showcase of what Necrons could be. (Ok, Destroyer Lords possessing vehicles was a bit much, but the limited vehicle hacking that's being rumoured actually seems to be about right.) When I played Dawn of War, I built up massive units of Warriors and loads of Flayed Ones. I'd have loved to see a codex where Flayed Ones got moved to Troops and but Fade Out occurred if you didn't have any units of Warriors left. I realise that wish-listing is pointless, but all Necrons needed was a facelift and a few new units (as more Necrons woke up). What they got was a complete overhaul (right down to brand new buttocks) that's wiped the last traces of the "Toughness Eight Schwarzenegger" army they used to be right out of them.

    The reason I like Necrons was captured perfectly by Dawn of War... but seems to have been missed completely by this new update. It's not the end of the world. I like Egyptians. The wife (who paints any models she finds interesting) loves Egyptians. And I do like Tomb Kings. But even though I like Wood Elves, I wouldn't like to see 40k fluff horribly hacked to pieces so we have Wood-Craftworld Eldar clinging to their wraithbone Athel Lorens and High-Exodite Eldar who "as it turns out" have Nox-like flying cities and huge Dark Eldar-esque populations as they rebuild their lost Empire using their Harlequins and the knowledge of the Black Library. Yeah, GW could do it. Yes, it would give us an interesting mirror of Fantasy and open up new troupes. Yes, it would give Citadel licence to sculpt new miniatures (which is the aim of the game and all). But it wouldn't make the Eldar any better. In fact, it would be taking the defining aspects of what makes the Eldar the Eldar and completely writing over them with a whole new "Space Elf" army all the while merrily singing "well they had Space Elf elements anyway". And that's exactly what has happened here by turning Necrons into Space Mummies.

    Necrons are dead, long live Necrons.

  47. #97
    This brought a tear to my eye. Expressed how necrons evolved, was so moving.

  48. #98
    @ 819244 - I... don't think I can say anything more than you did. It's like my own mind is being spoken, out on the page of this forum.

  49. #99
    Member BigSteve's Avatar
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    Can some nice fellow give me a TL;DR version of the retcon?

    They are no longer the old ones sworn enemies, tricked by the C'Tan into the living metal tombs? What are they now?

  50. #100


    I'm in FULL support of GW going back to the original Tomb King looking Necrons. SOOOOO Much better now.

    Now to quote some guy from the TWC forums because I really liked what he had to say concerning the new Necrons. I used to think Necrons were a boring race before, but now they are rivaling my love for the Tau Empire. I totally digg this new direction with Necrons for important reasons mentioned in this quote.

    There is a dramatic change in the fluff in this codex from the previous incarnation of the Necrons. The Necrontyr's empire was massive at one point, but the different Lords in the empire started to turn against each other in civil war. To prevent this from happening the overall ruler of the Necrons (the Silent King) started the war against the Old Ones specifically to give them a common enemy to fight against to prevent his empire from destroying itself. Of course, the Old Ones ended up kicking their butts and in desperation, the Silent King found the C'Tan and agreed to the Deceiver's pact without realizing what he was doing. However, after the Necrons helped the C'Tan to kill off the last Old Ones, the Silent King then ordered the Necrons to turn on the C'Tan in vengeance and utterly destroyed the C'Tan into tiny shards. This war agains the C'Tan weakened the Necrons overall so much they decided to go into stasis to avoid the vengeance of the Eldar (the C'Tan had killed the Old Ones, but not all their children).


    Now that the Necrons have reawakened in the 41st millennium, their goal is no longer to 'harvest' souls for the C'Tan (the C'Tan shards are now their slaves) as it was in the old book, but rather to reestablish the great Necron empire that spanned the galaxy before the war with the Old Ones began. However, the overall hierarchy of the Necron people is gone for the most part, leaving each individual Empire to once again rule for itself. This means each Tomb World (or cluster of Necron worlds) is essentially a separate little empire to itself, with a full backstory and idiosyncrasies. While Necron warriors are pretty much just automatons and Immortals not too much better, every other higher Necron being is now much more like an actual person, as their essence is simply trapped inside a metal body.



    So there is lots of crazy nuance to Necron culture that was never present before. The codex now has plenty of 'quote' boxes featuring memorable quotes from Necron Lords like other races have in their books. There are some Necron Lords who honor valor in battle, there are a few Necron Lords who trade with other races, and although an uneasy alliance apparently, yes Necrons and Blood Angels did end up fighting against a Tyranid Hive Fleet together. Oh, and there is definitely plenty of reason to have Necron vs. Necron action now (as the old feuds between competing Necron Lords flare back up again).


    All in all, it is a major tonal shift. While part of me recoils from it, the other part of me thinks that Necrons as they were had no distinct 'character' that each player could choose to get behind. Yes, the race as a whole had 'character' in how it was organized and functioned, but there was never any really good reason that a player should have his Necron force painted and modeled 'X' way as opposed to another player with his Necron army looking 'Y' way. People certainly painted their Necrons in different (neat) ways, but there was never really any good fluff giving players inspiration to do so.



    The only real 'personality' in the old book was the Deceiver, and that frankly wasn't the Necrons, it was their god. The mindless mission that all Necrons were on was basically really similar to Tyranids...the Necrons were coming to harvest every living thing in the galaxy (yawn).
    This new incarnation, love it or hate it, gives the Necrons a whole wide array of personality and every single empire has different goals and motives (not to mention paint schemes, markings, etc). Some Necron Lords are obsessed with finding the perfect flesh bodies to transfer their sentience back into. One Necron Tomb World was damaged during the great sleep and erased all the Necron sentience and has started basically commanding its Necrons like true robots (and is actively attacking other Necron worlds to take them over and keep growing), and there are of course dozens more little stories. The Silent King, who put himself into exile (for his unforgivable crime against his people) by leaving the galaxy after defeating the C'Tan encountered the Tyranids in the void between galaxies and has returned to spur the Necrons into action against the Tyranids (realizing that if the Tyranids wipe the galaxy clean of biological matter, then the Necrons will never find a form to transfer their minds back into).


    Oh, and the biggest rival of the Necrons is now actually the Altaoic (sp?) Craftworld. Apparently they are the only Eldar who stayed true on the original path to seek out and destroy Necron Tomb Worlds while the rest of the Eldar got all caught up and destroyed in their decadence and then the Fall. Altaoic rangers have traveled the galaxy far and wide over the millennia (ever since the Necrons went to sleep) to track down and destroy or hamper Tomb Worlds from reawakening.
    So with this new direction there is now tons of different possibilities for players to make Necrons forces different from each other and there are neat new takes on 'nemesis' races like Eldar & Tyranids to drive gaming plots as well as good reason for Necron on Necron battles.



    And as for totally destroying the background of the C'Tan, the codex does allude to the fact that there are lots of unaccounted for C'Tan shards still allegedly cast around the galaxy. The Necron are always trying to hunt them down and imprison them (in pocket dimension prisons), but this does still leave the door totally wide open for a shard of 'The Dragon' to be on Mars and for shards of 'The Deceiver' to have done all the crazy things that's been written about him in novels. Essentially, the full power C'Tan were massively, massively powerful, and the 'shard' versions of them are closer to the idea of what we had in the last codex anyway (something that can be killed/banished on a battlefield).



    HQ choices: • Imotekh the Stormlord (Lord of the Sau): The most powerful Necron Overlord currently. A master strategist whose nemesis is the Orks (since their random nature is the only thing that can accidentally disrupt his flawless plans).

    • Nemesor Zahndrekh: Overlord damaged in the great sleep who still thinks he is flesh and blood fighting the war of secession against his brother Necrontyr. Therefore, he is one of the few Necron Lords who still fights with honor and valor towards his enemies. Has a bodyguard named Vargard Obryron.

    • Illuminor Szeras: The Necrontyr who took the C'Tan's knowledge to do bio-transfer and actually made it a reality...so he's the chief architect within the Necrons for actually making the bio-transference happen. He is a master of technology and can augment D3 units in the army with an augmentation.

    • Orikan the Diviner: A master astromancer (a Cryptek specializing in tech that can predict the future), he is renown for knowing what will happen and when. During the game he is able to achieve a 'powered up' state that gives him a greatly increases statline, but this boost can randomly end on any turn dropping him back down to his regular stats.

    • Anrakyr the Traveller: A Necron Lord whose goal is to unite the Necron Empires again. He travels to Tomb Worlds still sleeping and kills the 'lesser' inhabitants that may live there unaware they are on a Tomb World, the 'price' for this service is to claim a tithe from the newly awakened legions. Some Necrons see him as a golden crusader others don't want reunification and would rather see him dead.

    • Trazyn the Infinite: He is a Necron who woke very early and is fascinated with studying and collecting history. His tomb world is filled with secret trinkets including (I quote) 'a giant of a man clad in baroque power armor' (start your wild theories here!). He even will attack other Necron tomb worlds to capture artifacts from them that he doesn't think they deserve. He is the character that has the CC ability to pick one type of model he killed that round and inflict wounds on all models of that type in the combat.

    • Necron Overlord: Generic DIY Necron Overlord (guy who rules a Tomb World) with plenty of options. Can ride on a Catacomb Command Barge (which is a one man transport) as can all the named 'Lords' above, but not those that are Crypteks in their fluff (Illuminor Szeras & Orikan the Diviner). Also can be a Destroyer Lord instead.

    • Royal Court: 0-5 regular Necron Lords (lieutenants to the Overlords) as well as 0-5 Crypteks. Crypteks are masters of Necron technology, whose abilities sometimes appear like sorcery to other races, but they do not have any psychic powers...all their abilities do not require a psychic test or anything like that (nor are they ever referred to as psychic powers in any way). Any member of the Court (Lord or Cryptek) can be split off at the start of the game to lead a unit of Warriors, Immortals, Lychguard or Deathmarks (but only one per unit). Neither Lords nor Crypteks are ICs.

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