CnC: Generals 2 (By Bioware!?!?)

[konfeta]

http://kotaku.com/5866956/biowwares-...uer-generals-2

Your head asplode. So, which tank will be a companion you can bed?


http://www.gametrailers.com/video/vg...command/724611

TRAILERS

[Patman42x]

hmm, interesting to see how rumours tend to be true. looking forward to it. depending on their success i suppose they will reboot the original c&c franchise

[Inquisitor Lok]

Has Bioware done an RTS before? Could be interesting to see how they put there own spin on it. Looking forward to seeing more as i played C&C as a kid and always enjoyed it.

[konfeta]

Well, they shouldn't. They already raped its corpse with CnC 4. Red Alert series... could be decent, but I suspect RA4 would endure the same fate as CnC did, with RA3 being EA's earnest attempt at a good CnC game (as Tiberium Wars was) followed by a quick and dirty execution.

I hope Generals 2 has most of Generals 1 team. I know the first game received a lot of flack (and rightfully so), but Zero Hour was fantastic fun.

@lok it seems they merely using Bioware name as a marketing stunt. It's a different studio.

Seems to be this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EA_Los_Angeles

[Aesaar]

I liked both C&C3 and RA3, but C&C4 sucked. They obviously had no idea how to properly finish that storyline.

Have no idea what they plan on doing with this. Generals wasn't really a C&C game, since it had neither the gameplay or the setting of one. Since it was very average, I don't really care if they screw it up. Zero Hour's challenge mode was fun enough, and I'd hope they'd at least bring that back.

Just hoping for some modern gameplay. You know, tank armor facing, coax MGs, that sort of thing.

[Shuma]

It's like a nightmare from which i cant wake up.

@Konfeta:

Yeah, and look at what other game they made, C&C 4.

[BigSteve]

They refused to let players cancel pre-orders after the CNC4 demo came out.. terrible fucking studio with a terrible business model.

[Akranadas]

Frostbite 2? Holyshit it's going to look awesome!

[FriendlyFire]

That new "Bioware" studio indeed is just EALA repackaged, which was Westwood repackaged.

Whatever quality people were there have long since departed though.

[Akranadas]

True FriendlyFire, but Generals was almost entirely made by EA LA, rather than Westwood. And it turned out to be a bloody awesome RTS, especially when you applied Zero Hour onto it.

[Saberdark]

Well that's an interesting surprise. Never thought they'd go back to Generals. Always liked that one. It'll be interesting to see what they do.

[Trizzdog]

Can I still have terror technicals and mob mitosis? OH AND NEW SHOES!

[Stingra]

Holy shit what is this i can't even

[Hiroshi_Tea]

omg, what lol?
2013 though. that's a long ways off

[Shaitan]

I'm cautiously optimistic, I definately won't start saying how bad it will be until after we actually learn some details. It could end up being great, like the first one.

[gorays]

Not impressed with the visuals, reminds me of C&C 3 and 4.

[Saberdark]

More info, from here: http://www.commandandconquer.com/en/.../cncgenerals2#

In the near future, world leaders are mere seconds from signing a global treaty and bringing an end to war as we know it when a devastating terrorist attack rips through the peace conference, killing all in attendance. In a world left with no politicians, diplomats, or activists, only the Generals remain. It’s up to you to assume their roles, command of their forces, and put an end to global terrorism once and for all.

All-out War – Take control of three unique factions, competing for resources, building up your base of operation, and leading massive batteries of tanks, soldiers, and aircraft into battle.

Uncanny Sense of Realism – Frostbite 2 technology allows for visceral, visually stunning conflict at an epic scale. Incredibly detailed units and environments, dynamic physics, and exhilarating visual effects bring the battle to life in ways never before seen. This is the closest thing to real war without the consequences.

New Ways to Dominate or Ally with your Friends – Go beyond classic deathmatch with a selection of new multiplayer game modes, designed with both cooperative and competitive play in mind.

Thrilling Campaign – Command the war on terror in an electrifying single-player campaign. Experience the dramatic story from multiple perspectives—from heroic General to crazed terrorist—while engaging the enemy in pulse-pounding tactical combat.

Ever-evolving Experience – Enhance your game with an expanding array of downloadable content. From maps and units to factions, campaigns, and more, the fight against terrorism is deeper than ever.

Last bit about the DLC is somewhat worrying but we'll see.

[gorays]

Can't wait to see COH 2 in action though, Relic is the RTS visuals king.

[Gorb]

I loved me some CnC3 visuals, personally. Dat FX was so damn smooth and pretty.

[Shuma]

For fucks sake EA, the game is just announced and we're already getting DLC? Also:

In a world left with no politicians, diplomats, or activists, only the Generals remain

Wow, that must have been a huge conference.

[Akranadas]

Might as well tell people what they already know Shuma

[Guilliman]

Frostbite engine?? I love Generals, mainly because I could mod it. Man I loved making hyper realistic explosions. Or going overboard and making sure every payload provided utter destruction. If this game is modable as well (all I need is base gamefiles to text converter) I'm so over this.

[Sinogrim]

Has there actually been any frostbite engine driven game that has been moddable? Cause I can't think of one.

[LoneWolf666]

Hah! I actually guessed that one.

[Misiok]

So, things we learned - BioWare or Bioware no longer exists as you apparently EA is using the name for promotion or whatever. Might as well add Bioware to the corpse list raped by EA.
Generals never were a true CnC, just a decent strategy. This said they very well might just call it Battlefield Real Time Playing DLC client.

It does look pretty, but it's going to be probably on Origin and I fucking hate Origin.

Also, C&C3 was fucking great, even when it was made by EA. Had a really great atmosphere with the maps and whatnot. RA3 was a bit crazy, a bit too much for its own good I think but otherwise okay.

I don't really know what to think when it's so far yet.

[saki]

Can't wait to see COH 2 in action though, Relic is the RTS visuals king.

Well, they WERE kings of RTS visuals at that time. I do not know how many people have left/changed the company since then but if you compare DOW II to COH you'll see that the former one is a lot less stunning, GFX wise. To be honest I don't know if that has improved with the expansions.

Therefore I think its a far fetch to assume that the studio has still the same capabilities than five years ago. After all its the people behind the brand "relic" that make or break the game. The same will be true for this "Bioware", we will have to wait and see what they are capable of.

That being said, I'd love to play a game like COH with semi intelligent units, destruction etc. again.

[Ammon Ra]

Ever-evolving Experience – Enhance your game with an expanding array of downloadable content. From maps and units to factions, campaigns, and more, the fight against terrorism is deeper than ever.

...

Buy the paladin tank for €4.99
Buy the avenger SAM vehicle for €3.99
Buy the Chinese nuke cannon for €6.99
Buy the Sniper infantry for €2.49
Buy improved chemical warheads for GLA for €14.99
Buy black dragon napalm upgrade for China for €15.49
Buy the USA cold fusion control rod upgrade for €9.99
Buy the Chinese infantry general for €24.99
Buy the USA airforce general for €29.99
(...)
Buy all Generals 2 DLC for €199.99

etc...

-_-

That's what the pessimist in me is thinking, and probably not that far off. What will really make this cnc game sink or swim, is its moddability. It will swim for a while regardless of what it can or cannot do, but longevity of the game primarily depends on mods and user-made maps.

Knowing how modable the frostbite engine is, I'm not particularly optimistic about mods and Generals 2

[Akranadas]

Why is it that mods increase the longevity of a game, yet DLC does not in the same token?

[Busby]

First thought: Sonic boom, baby.

Second thought: Oh god DLC. God dam it EA stop destroying possibly awesome games with your pathetic war with Actilizzard for the "most evil video game publisher" crown. Oh and if its on Origin screw that.

[LoneWolf666]

Ever-evolving Experience – Enhance your game with an expanding array of downloadable content. From maps and units to factions, campaigns, and more, the fight against terrorism is deeper than ever

This is... interesting. This is the business model games have been moving towards in general, a more modular approach, if you will, away from full-fledged expansion packs. You buy the base game and then select what else you want from a menu, all to generate more $ for the developers and promote longevity. As long as the base is solid and the DLC reasonably priced, why not.

[Kien]

Oh crap I won't be able to enjoy this after playing the high quality Shockwave mod for Generals. No way anyone is gonna add as much content in any potential mod for this game. What made generals fun was the good looking explosions which made destruction very satisfying, something most RTS lacks.

[Jonny]

I'm slightly confused. Bioware is well known for slick, polished RPGs and nothing else, so how is it good advertising to slap their name on a game with no connection to any other Bioware game, of a genre Bioware have never entered, made by a studio with no actual links to Bioware itself? It's like Pepsi buying Ford and putting their name on the cars. The Pepsi Mustang would be sure to sell well.

Or has this thing got RPG elements? I've long thought that a mix between Bioware style RPG and sim/RTS gameplay would have serious potential.

[Shuma]

Might as well add Bioware to the corpse list raped by EA.

I thought we did that after Dragon Age II.

@Akra:

I'm sure DLC does increase the longetivity of games, otherwise that train game on Steam wouldn't have $1500 worth of DLC on it, but if i were given a choice of whether a game has DLC or a modding community, i'd pick a modding community, just look at the modding community the TES games have, don't even need DLC when you have that.

@Jonny:

Casual market, i doubt most casuals wouldn't know that Bioware is a RPG centric company, they just know it's good(not that i think that) so they'd buy it just because it says it's from bioware. Then again, i have no idea how that makes any sense since RTS games are anything but casual and this game appears to be a PC exclusive, so... Maybe EA has just gone insane or thinks everyone is incredibly stupid, or they just want all the creepy bioware fanbase to buy more of their games.

But would they? I don't thin this game has romance options.

[Aron_DeTomado]

Uncanny Sense of Realism – Frostbite 2 technology allows for visceral, visually stunning conflict at an epic scale. Incredibly detailed units and environments, dynamic physics, and exhilarating visual effects bring the battle to life in ways never before seen. This is the closest thing to real war without the consequences.

So their list of priorities as far as the engine is concerned is literally "Graphics, graphics, graphics, graphics, physics, and graphics"? Well, at least they're honest -_-

[konfeta]

Or has this thing got RPG elements? I've long thought that a mix between Bioware style RPG and sim/RTS gameplay would have serious potential.

IIIRC, Generals actually sort of pioneered RTS with RPG elements via the general system. WC3 had heroes, sure, but I don't remember any games that had the actual non-unit based RPG mechanics.

[CommissarRezail]

A sliver spark of excitement rolled up to me when i saw the trailer. If bioware doing it i got a little hope for. However what is victory games doing ???

[Saberdark]

Ammon got exactly what was worrying me. Regardless of anything else, if they start putting units out piecemeal this game will die. Strategy games need balance and you can't have that if people can buy better units. This was exactly the problem with Age of Empires Online.

Anyone saying this is the death of Bioware or whatever is being ridiculous. It's the same old C&C studio that's been put under the Bioware name for marketing purposes. It's not like they're taking the Mass Effect team or the Dragon Age team and saying: go make this RTS game. I do wonder a bit at the idea of putting Bioware as the name myself. Though when I showed the trailer to some friends they were a bit more interested than before when they saw Bioware until I explained the whole thing so maybe it's not so stupid after all.

[Jonny]

IIIRC, Generals actually sort of pioneered RTS with RPG elements via the general system. WC3 had heroes, sure, but I don't remember any games that had the actual non-unit based RPG mechanics.

I was thinking more about the story and character elements, instead of the RPG mechanics of XP and talent trees. A good example would be taking Mass Effect and mixing it with Homeworld, so instead of Commander Shepard crackin' wise and then playing in first person, Captain Shepard could crack wise and then order his fleet around.

[overmind2000]

Personally I hope they can put some more, charm or direction behind the title. Generals always felt a little weak on its world and story building side. I'd like to see some proper characters appearing as opposed to random generals (which in game were most unique units and random voice prompts).

As for RPG in RTS unit leveling has been part of C&C since the very early days - though titles like Warcraft III have taken it a step further with super units on the battlefield that upgrade over time. I'm of two minds about that - on the first the superunits can somewhat result in games being focused around a single spearhead attack with the superunit - with lesser forces being more easily overrun.


What I'd really love to see (and what they are hinting at - though I honestly try to avoid all EA early game release notes as so so so much gets cut and changed before a game goes gold) is bigger battlefields. The Red Alert series has pushed toward smaller and smaller battlefields and the C&C Tib series also was erring toward more compact battlegrounds. I really think there is a market for an RTS that pushes out for bigger battles with basic units and forces on the table - along with that old ability of remote bases as well (Supreme commander tried well at this, though was slightly undone by the special tier superunits).

If they could give me CoH with scores of tanks as opposed to 5 or 6 I'd be very happy

[Ammon Ra]

Why is it that mods increase the longevity of a game, yet DLC does not in the same token?

DLC is restricted by the universe and IP of the game. Mods are not.
DLC costs money. Mods do not.
DLC gets made faster. mods do not.

That's not to say that dlc won't increase the longevity of generals 2: they will. Just at the price of giving EA more money. Mods will supersede dlc in the longterm, depending on how easily the game is moddable, because they are longer/larger projects to begin with.

As for the teaser, I see some interesting USA buildings and units.
Walls (campaign only?),barracks, war factory, construction yard, powerplant(?), tech building(?), GDI Orca, and a USA vehicle that looks suspiciously like a NOD buggy.

[Misiok]

It's the same old C&C studio that's been put under the Bioware name for marketing purposes.

- My take on why are they promoting the old C&C studio under the new name is, well I'll put it in a few symbols - C&C 4.

Then again, i have no idea how that makes any sense since RTS games are anything but casual and this game appears to be a PC exclusive

Not exacly - EA did release Red Alert 3 on the consoles. And Supreme Commander 2 also got released on the consoles. RA3 was praised at being somewhat a good port, while SC2 suffered from alot of things, being a PC port didn't help it either. Then there's that fun-in-videos Halo RTS that I'd wish they'd port to PC but oh well. In any case, EA already tried porting RTS's to consoles so I don't know why they would not want to try again. Always more cash, right?

I thought we did that after Dragon Age II.

Well, I did like (M)ass Effect 1 and 2 still, and have somewhat hope for the third game. But Origin. Gah.

[konfeta]

I was thinking more about the story and character elements, instead of the RPG mechanics of XP and talent trees. A good example would be taking Mass Effect and mixing it with Homeworld, so instead of Commander Shepard crackin' wise and then playing in first person, Captain Shepard could crack wise and then order his fleet around.

Lulz. Story. In generals.

IGN: What's the story setup for Generals 2, and does it tie into the first one at all?

Jon Van Caneghem: Generals 2 takes place ten years after the events in Generals. At the beginning the world is actually at peace. There's a huge conference where a landmark peace treaty is about to be signed. But moments before that happens, a terrorist attack takes away all of the leaders in attendance. The only leaders who are left are the generals and that's where you come in. We have three factions in the game, the GLA, the EU and one more we aren't revealing – yet!

[overmind2000]

Wait no China -- does this mean no more nuke artillery, dragon tanks and miniguns (ok we'll probably still get the miniguns but nukes!)

[Shuma]

The third faction is aliens... No, they couldn't possibly be this stupid...

[Misiok]

I bet they're Scrin. That way they can make a reboot of Tiberium Saga by using prequels. Well, not Scrin but early Nod which and I bet Kane appears at the end of the mainstory to laugh at you for failing to bring his plan to a stop and show you the Origin(tm) of Tiberium where your brain will turn into a pulp.

[overmind2000]

Actually 3rd army could be Russia - considering that the GLA is generally set middle eastern areas and countries that are on the boarder of Russian lands/former Russian lands then they could be a viable option - especially if the EU is already one side in the conflict. EU and USA as both sides would make the game feel unbalanced (ie two typically allied sides against one single antagonist).

[konfeta]

Er, technically, China was a protagonist faction in Generals.

Personally, because I don't want China or USA go away, what I think will happen is one of these:
1. China is the third faction. USA returns as "Imperial America" or something hilariously over-the-top in an x-pack.
2. China/EU alliance (Zero Hour ending sort of implied this). USA a third faction.
3. China/absorbed USA (Zero Hour ending could lead into this) is the third faction.

[overmind2000]

Just a thought, but if they are pushing for larger scale battles then the GLA will have to be expanding beyond a simple terrorist organisation into something with a more substantial backing in arms, resources and people in order to field similar armies to the other.s

[LoneWolf666]

The EU?! Whaaa? That's an unlikely military bloc if I ever saw one. Then again... Isn't the Generals/Zero Hour storyline about the waning of US global power? This means no NATO, thus Europe needs to have its own military power.

The third faction... Russia? China? ... Brazil?

[Nerdfish]

A EU/Russia alliance and a China/US alliance would have distinct units and playstyle. Could work And GLA really need more tech to compete in Total annihilation scale warfare.
BTW: Anyone noticed the machine gun on the tank / gunship ? Perhaps tanks will finally stop sucking vs infantry.

Truly interesting choice of using a FPS engine to build an RTS I approve.
BTW, IMHO Bioware wasn't playing to their strength. they'd have been better off doing Dune III. Bioware is sophisticated enough to handle a story like Dune.