Wargame: European Escalation

[Busby]

Chaparral is actually a good idea, yea. Again like the Stingers though, the reason I am using Riflemen is for the Bradley. You can only call in 4 by themselves but you can call in 40 if you have riflemen ride in on them. I've had some success with the Blowpipe, and the reason I want to have them is most of my infantry flank attacks end up with my special forces getting nomed on by angry gunships. The Legion are really good infantry too, you are right. Maybe put the stingers in Huey/Blackhawk, drop the SAS and grab the Legion instead. That way the Deltas can have some air cover, I have some very mobile AA units if I need them, and I also have the Legion. Also I can throw the Zippo in there, I don't know why I forgot about it.

[Killer_Zero]

Downloading a 1gb update for this. Is it a full version pre-load or is it just a beta update?

[Wize]

Seems to be a beta update

Hi,

New patch on its way ...

Here are the main changes:
- Main gun of the BMP 685 is renamed from 2A70 to 2A48-1. No change of stats, just an historical fixing.
- Number of command stars needed to unlock the East-German MFRW BM-21 increase from 2 to 3.
- Number of command stars needed to unlock the Soviet BMP-3 decrease from 4 to 3.
- Ammo load for the BTR-152E ZPTU-2 & BTR-152E ZPTU-4 increase from 1.200 to 2.400.
- Range of fire of the TOS-1 Buratino decrease from 4.900m to 3.500m (IRL range).
- Fixing the TOS-1 Buratino minimum range so that he can't stun/harm itself.
- Accuracy of the STROP-1 increase from 5 to 7.
- Ammunitions load for the M53/59 Praga increase from 680 to 900.
- Ammunitions load for the STROP-1 increase from 480 to 900.
- Ammunitions load for the STROP-2 increase from 800 to 1.400.
- Rate of fire of the M53/59 Praga, STROP-1 & STROP-2 slightly increased.
- Price of STROP-1 increase of 5$.
- Price of T-80 decrease of 5$.
- Price of T-80B decrease of 5$.
- Price of T-80BV decrease of 5$.
- Price of T-80U decrease of 5$.
- Price of T-72B increase of 25$.
- Accuracy of the Rangers’ Redeye missile is increased from 4 to 8.
- Accuracy of the TO-55 & Flammpanzer TO-55 decreases from 7 to 3.
- Fixing the minimum range of the Spetsnaz's RPO Rys so that they can't stun/harm themselves.
- Max. speed for M901 ITW increase from 60 to 65km/h.
- Availability of MT-LB Shturm decrease from 12 à 8.
- Number of soldier per Piechota Zmech. squad is 5. No change in their stats, they were already 5 but a graphical bug made them appear like 10.
- Accuracy of MT-LB Strela-10 increase from 2 to 4.
- Price of M201 MILAN decrease of 5$.
- Price of M901 ITW decrease of 5$.
- MG-3 ammos of Jaguar 2 decrease from 3.200 to 2.000 rounds.
- Price of TOS-1 Buratino increase of 15$.
- Price of Jaguar 2 increase of 5$.
- Price of MT-LB Shturm increase of 5$.

[Busby]

Its a new patch.

http://www.wargame-ee.com/forum/view...hp?f=11&t=1793

Some things I've noticed:

- Price of T-72B increase of 25$.

Whaaaaaat. Wow. I already considered the T-72s to be pretty meh tanks (the huge lack of gun accuracy) but... Really? The ATGMs are pretty nice but wow, $25 increase. That is just insane.

- Number of command stars needed to unlock the Soviet BMP-3 decrease from 4 to 3.
- Price of T-80 decrease of 5$.
- Price of T-80B decrease of 5$.
- Price of T-80BV decrease of 5$.
- Price of T-80U decrease of 5$.
- Accuracy of MT-LB Strela-10 increase from 2 to 4.

Great. But they are still useless units. :/ The Strela even more so now the STROP-2 got a little buff.

[Trizzdog]

I like how the rangers went from absolute poop to... niche? Also burrito nerf

At least my gimmick strats are still intact.

[Busby]

Rangers, now with less poop and more MANPAD.

Actually, I think they just made the recon Bradley (even more) useless. Buy Rangers + Bradley and you get a decent AA missile with very good optics and a Bradley. Buy a Bradley CFV for the same price, and get very good optics and a Bradley. Drrr, I wonder which one I want.

[Infidelicious]

Bleh. T72 tree is worthless now. The only one worth bringing in was the B, and now it's shit.

[Brenil]

T-80 worthless? Uh.. okay.

I think the problem with the T-72 vs. T-80 was that the T-72b was too good while the majority of the T-80 variants were merely 'okay'. Now it seems that the T-72B, while still good, is a bit overpriced, and the lesser versions of the T-80 are slightly more affordable. That said, the T-80U is still a beast and basically an improved version of the T-72B in almost all respects. Yes, it's more expensive, but it can take a licking and dish out the pain quite convincingly.

I don't get the STROP improvements. It's still inferior in every way to the Tungusaka except for speed, which doesn't help a whole lot when Hellfires are raining down on your army and you're trying in vain to get your STROPs in range to do something.

As for the rest of the patch. I'm surprised the biggest imbalances in the game haven't even been mentioned: the MALKA and French Foreign Legion.

The MALKA is just absolute bullshit, as it has twice the range of all NATO artillery (the same range as the MLRS, which is supposed to be anti-artillery), 10 accuracy, fast firing, and 203mm of pain. It's literally impossible to win against someone using those. On the opposite side, the French Foreign Legion with their FAMAS of murder everything, can kill twice their resources in infantry, even if the opposing infantry is dug-in. It's damn silly to watch someone (/cough, Trizz) derp around with these troops murdering everything from infantry to tanks while taking few casualties.

Then lastly, there is the question as of artillery as a whole and the issue of why so many units are overpriced garbage. Artillery + FOB, as Infi has pointed out, is of dubious balance. The ability to sit in your base (which I am very guilty of) and lay down a rain of steel with impunity really can hurt the gameplay as a whole. The solution might be to remove FOB, as Infi has suggested, or to have some sort of diminishing returns on over use of one unit at the FOB or other way to mitigate base artillery spam. Either way, something needs to be done.

As for the unit imbalance of useful and useless, this is a more pressing issue that becomes more and more obvious the more you play. There's units that are useful, useless, and mandatory. The more you play, the more you come to realize that soon your deck will be filled with mostly mandatory units in order to compete, semi-useful units for color of variety, and useless units because you didn't know any better. I don't know if it'll ever be balanced given the number of units per side, but it is becoming slightly depressing to realize that most units outside the standard (usually U.S. vs. Russia variety) are the only ones really worth buying. There are exceptions, but for the most part, the majority of units in the game are quite frankly, bad at everything. This needs to be addressed.

[Trizzdog]

How not to use "move fast".

[Cortlendt]

Will the release have game modes other than destruction?

[Wize]

Isn't there already a Confrontation game mode?

[Busby]

I think the problem with the T-72 vs. T-80 was that the T-72b was too good while the majority of the T-80 variants were merely 'okay'. Now it seems that the T-72B, while still good, is a bit overpriced, and the lesser versions of the T-80 are slightly more affordable. That said, the T-80U is still a beast and basically an improved version of the T-72B in almost all respects. Yes, it's more expensive, but it can take a licking and dish out the pain quite convincingly.

T-80 group is still useless. Its too expensive for what it is capable off, that is missing main cannon shots and ATGMs. The T-72b was the only thing that made the T-72 family worthwhile. You are honestly better off buying T-62/64 variants. The T-80U also has the downside of only being able to field two of them.

I don't get the STROP improvements. It's still inferior in every way to the Tungusaka except for speed, which doesn't help a whole lot when Hellfires are raining down on your army and you're trying in vain to get your STROPs in range to do something.

You can have two STROP 2s for roughly the price of one Tung. And with that you get 4 Iglas, with a sexy 9 accuracy, and a gun nearly as powerful as the best Flackpanzer's at a shorter range, but on a unit that goes 100km/h. Is it a replacement for the Tung? Probably not, but I'm considering dropping Tungs completely, as I have had bad experiences of a pair of them wasting sixteen missiles to take down one hovering Kiowa, and using the BUK + STROP 2 instead.

[Trizzdog]

After iterating the deck choices for the game, and looking at the cost of some units vs others, I'm pretty sure whatever method they used for calculating unit value is broken.

[killerpoodle]

I've just downloaded this, anyone up for helping a beginner get to grips with it?

[Dark_Avenger]

Buy recon units, Watch out for infantry in woods.

[Shoota Fodder]

So the servers are down. I assume this is in preparation for the full release. I'm simply oozing with excitement.

[Busby]

Beta servers are down. Full game is going live in <24 hours.

Edit:

- Availability of Gazelle Canon decrease from 20 to 16.
- Availability of AH-1S Cobra decrease from 14 to 12.
- Availability of AH-1E Cobra decrease from 10 to 8.
- Front armor of HEMTT increase from 0 to 1.
- Price of 2S19 Msta increase of 5$.
- HE shell load of 2S19 Msta decrease from 60 to 50.
- AP shell load of 2S19 Msta decrease from 15 to 10.
- Availability of 2S19 Msta decrease from 12 to 4.
- Price of BMP 685 increase of 5$.
- Price of AML-90 Lynx increase of 5$.
- Area effect of all SAM missiles slightly increase to limit concentrations of helicopters.
- Aiming time of all artillery unit (shell or MLRS) is increased by +2 seconds.
- Ammunition cost (in supply) of all shell artillery units is increased by x2.
- Reloading time between salvos of all shell artillery units is increased by x3.

[Wize]

The game will be available tonight (GMT+1) it's just a matter of hours .

According to the official website administrator.

EDIT: And that's a pretty heavy change for artillery, 2 times for ammunition cost and 3 times longer reload time?
But as I read it, that is just for shell artillery?

[scoiatollo]

The artillery change is needed imo, 1v1 camping in your base shelling sectors already work to a certain extend, must be more than annoying in any game with more than 2players tbh...

[Inquisitor Lok]

:o thats in like... 5 hours?

Excited!

[timbab]

I'm so glad they nerfed Arty before retail, yes!

Arty is gonna be used carefully at last, as a precision tool.

[Misiok]

Oh, balance patch that balances stuff in the right direction? Makes me want the game now.

[Trizzdog]

We'll see how the balance change regarding artillery works, but:

- Price of AML-90 Lynx increase of 5$.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Inquisitor Lok]

Game is up on Steam. Mines updating as i type

Edit; So objectives in the SP gain you command stars which can also be used in the MP:P Ive netted 25 from the first two missions alone (completing all objectives)

Units in SP also get unlocked as mission progress and i think unlocking them for MP/ SP in carried over to the other so you arent unlocking things twice.

[Mantaray]

right.. make arty more res-hungry. therefore: buy more FoB's at start

[Misiok]

So the game is out, for like, over a day and you guys suddenly stopped posting? This interests me, I was interested on hows the campaign and everything that the beta didn't have.

[Wize]

I just came home and now have to download the last 7 gigs, but it's almost done.
Besides it was released yesterday late evening I think, so it's not even a day. ; )

[Inquisitor Lok]

The first couple of missions in the Campaign have been fun for me. Ive slightly learned some hotkeys finally xD (although some of the ones they mention dont actually work like hitting M to make units move on roads)

I havent touched MP since DLing the final version since last night though so dont know if/ how its changed :P

[Wize]

Apparently you're getting XP a lot slower than we did in the Beta, but you will be able to get Command points from the campaign.
So it's possible to unlock other units without playing the multiplayer.

[timbab]

Just finished the first 5 NATO missions, I kinda like the single player, the last one was annoying though, haha, couldn't call in Leos and what not, my units seemed pretty capped.

Just got enough stars for my full BETA NATO deck, so me is happy now. Might go at the other SP missions later, get more experimental unlocks or build my Soviet deck.

Btw, is it just me or are normal Patton's really, really, really good in the Campaign? I've had 2 defend my base against T72s and up, waves of them.

But I still can't select DX11. *Shake fist*

[Busby]

The single player campaign is actually rather hard. Losing units, especially expensive good ones, in a mission can really screw you over. Once those units are dead, they are dead. You can never have them again. Ever. You are horrible person for letting what-his-name die, and get punished for it.

[timbab]

Haha yea, but I'm learning to really babysit tanks with it, it's nice.

Zippo's saved my ass in the 5th mission.

[Inquisitor Lok]

That fifth mission man... took me so long to get all the stars for xD

[timbab]

I still gotta redo it for saving the Brit Outpost, but screw it for a while.


The first American mission is a cakewalk if you go left, but just don't go through the forest, that's all I gotta say, lol, trying to get to the German units from the North or the woods is suicide.

[Inquisitor Lok]

What annoys me about some of the objectives (the ones where you have to keep something secured and its an AI controlling the CV) is when your AI CV decides it wants to go off on its own for a bit to explore the European country side and brave russian gunships and tanks... i had to of lost like 3 or 4 of them that way xD

[Brenil]

T-80 group is still useless. Its too expensive for what it is capable off, that is missing main cannon shots and ATGMs. The T-72b was the only thing that made the T-72 family worthwhile. You are honestly better off buying T-62/64 variants. The T-80U also has the downside of only being able to field two of them.

I was only advocating the use of the T-80U, the rest of the variants are lackluster, like I already said. You're preaching to the choir.

You can have two STROP 2s for roughly the price of one Tung. And with that you get 4 Iglas, with a sexy 9 accuracy, and a gun nearly as powerful as the best Flackpanzer's at a shorter range, but on a unit that goes 100km/h. Is it a replacement for the Tung? Probably not, but I'm considering dropping Tungs completely, as I have had bad experiences of a pair of them wasting sixteen missiles to take down one hovering Kiowa, and using the BUK + STROP 2 instead.

The problem with the STROP is their range. Speed means nothing when its raining Hellfires or the enemy is dug-in where the choppers are firing at you from. When it comes to beating people who know how to use helicopters, range is everything. STROPs really are only decent at point defense because of their speed and ability to ambush flanking forces. For frontline anti-air duty, range is king.

[Misiok]

Goddamnit, the game's nowhere to be found here. Argh. Why did they skimp on advertisements? I mean, seriously, no review site knows about it or anything and nowhere cept for online stores can I order it from, and screw Steam and its ridiculous prices.

[Trizzdog]

I'm just going to leave this here.

(you might want to view the image directly to get a better look at the text)

[Wize]

Total Victory indeed, but what is that KillingUrDoodz dude spazzing about?

Also, did you already had better units unlocked by playing the campaign?

[Cortlendt]

Is there a Relicnews clan already?

[lizardmech]

Total Victory indeed, but what is that KillingUrDoodz dude spazzing about?

Also, did you already had better units unlocked by playing the campaign?

Some players just send an unending stream of expensive units to their death. They don't realize if they order 20 helicopters after the game starts that they come out in small batches not a huge pack.

[Afoxi]

Is there a Relicnews clan already?

TOTAL FAGOT

Total Victory indeed, but what is that KillingUrDoodz dude spazzing about?

That's just Black being... Black. As in the person, black, not a racial stereotype.

[Wize]

Has anyone had the problem that enemy units might get stuck outside the border?
I need to clear the last zone in level 2 of the campaign, but some units are stuck outside the border, and my units can't reach nor shoot at them.
Those units can fire at me though.

[timbab]

Man there are some retarded campaign missions.

It's the first time I REALLY notice how buggy the unit control is, especially the selection. Enemy AI seems to magically know where your command vehicles or scouts are too, while totally ignoring open flanks, etc, etc.

The further you go down the tree, the less fun they become. I've finished both the NATO sets and am on my second Polish mission now.

[Wize]

I thought the AI was pretty good, but that's mostly because it knows where my units are.
At one point I had an open flank in between two fronts and the AI moved a couple of tanks right in between, I had to pull back some troops if I wanted to stop them from moving in on my CV.

The selection is indeed a bit iffy, but it's better to click on the name than on the units.
It makes it more annoying when you want to select a group, but not all of the units.

[timbab]

I can manage fine in MP, SP is just really weird sometimes.

Often I'd select a unit to move to X, only to see my freaking previous unit, like a cmd vehicle or heli moves right into their line of fire, it's totally frustrating.

And an example to them knowing where your units are, one, in one of the first NATO missions where you have to catch up to your front line (you're in enemy territory), I moved to the USA units first, no problem, then decided to flank to the Germans, through the forest, everything is going fine, it just takes forever but I'd imagine it would be worth it, what happens? TONS of enemy units stacked up right at the edge of where I want to exit to, it's literally the only spot where they had units near the forest.

Or, in the French NATO mission where you have to gather 2000 resource points, not lose a single command unit and hold that one hill for 15 minutes, I was nearly done, and this asshole hind just flies straight over my defended side, knows exactly where one of my cmd vehicles are and shoots it down, resulting in me not getting the 5 stars for the bonus, total BS.

Honestly I'm glad I'm over half way through, but it's kind of fun using units you normally wouldn't.

And oh yea, Zippo's are my new favorite unit in anything defense related. In one game, one Zippo had around 25+ kills, especially near edges/higher position, or assaulting higher positions (they ignore the terrain difference and shoot at an angle.

[Cortlendt]

I'm slightly confused with the campaign, shall I save my stars for the multiplayer deck or I can unlock any unit freely and do not regret it later?

[Inquisitor Lok]

The units you unlock are available in both SP(when once the unit becomes available to use) and MP. So spend away!

[LoneWolf666]

So how is SP, anyway?

[Misiok]

So I got this game. I also steam added Trizz. How about we get some games going?