I actually get the 106mm RR jeep in my french deck. Surprisingly effective to cover roads that go through woods. You could use those too if your intention is to spam RR units.
|
|
|
#351
I actually get the 106mm RR jeep in my french deck. Surprisingly effective to cover roads that go through woods. You could use those too if your intention is to spam RR units.
I realized something while looking over E-E forums: That morale doesn't have to spread if units take nearby casualties into account. Units could get demoralized by their buddies blowing up near them. And it's realistic too, who wouldn't ...
the M113 is a better unit for the same price though, and has more useful variants.
#354
When you said gun I thought you meant an actual gun, not a RR.It's a NATO unit, if that helps. A fuck it, I'll just tell you.
M113 106mm RR.
For 10 points I get an AC 2 AP 7 HE 0 gun. Each point in accuracy gives a 5% increase in chance to hit at max range (roughly speaking, it doesn't always show since hit chance doesn't go below 5%), each level of vet gives you more than that... around 6.5% or so if my memory serves.
So by spending an extra 10 points for max vet I turn the thing into an effective 8 AC 7 AP gun. Granted it's made of paper and can't hurt infantry, but dear god it will work well as a tank destroyer. PACT player spawning lots of ATGM tanks? throw 12 of these at him and let him choke on it.
Also I did not realize that vet 5 was so cheap on 10 point units. Time to spam the fuck out of that thing.
Vet effects scaling linearly, while rising in costs exponentially is probably the dumbest thing ever.
I have been using those m113 RRs for a while, the marder is better due to the m113s speed and fuel use. I still often use the m113s though, 8 - 10 vet ones cost nothing and can do a lot of damage. Usually I get them to help team mates who are about to get their FOB rushed by tanks. I don't think their damage changes by range because they are HEAT rather than canons, this makes them great against light units at range but they can't get in close and kill heavy tanks like the marder can.
Agreed inf
So, put the m113 106mm RR unit to the test today in a ranked game.
http://www.wargamereplays.org/index....=replay&id=106
when you're watching, pay close attention to the 3 T-64BVs during the battle. About halfway into the battle 4 rise pattons and 4 m113rrs open up on them. These things have 10 frontal armor and cost 130 a pop, my entire fire group costs 120. The T-64BVs take ONE VOLLEY and all 3 are at half health. 2nd volley hits them while they are trying to pull out and destroys them.
Why would you ever take heavy armor in this game...
#359
Just finished the campaign
Holy living fuck it just ends.. it just... ends. The least they could do was put in an epilogue video to wrap things up.
Patch was released today:
No nerfs to tank spam, if anything, they made spam more viable by increasing the cost of 'better' tanks. The meta for this game is getting out of hand. We played three games last night and every game Pact spammed a ton of stupid uselessly priced shit that we killed but didn't get hardly any points for what we eventually lost. Seriously, what is the point of good units? The only thing they're good for is losing you the game when they're overwhelmed by conscripts and forty-year old tanks.GENERIC:
- Readjustment of certain realistic payloads ammunition for armored cars (20-30mm).
- The minimum range for at least 1 AP damage is reduced: small AP will now have to approach much closer to inflict damage.
- Fixed issue likely to hit is too high, affecting units level 3 and 4.
NATO:
- Availability of Chasseur FAMAS decreases from 32 to 20.
- Availability of the Legion FAMAS decreases from 16 to 12.
- Availability of 2e FAMAS REP decreases from 12 to 8.
- The accuracy of Canon XM-150 of the MBT-70 decreases from 9 to 7.
- Cost of KPZ 70 has decreased by 5 deployment points.
- The speed of the UH-1M gunship increases from 175 km/h to 300 km/h. (error that does not take into account the new engines, such as UH-1D).
- Increased the M150 RoF to put on an equal footing with other vehicles to load external ATGM.
- Cost of UH-1C Heavy Hog has decreased by 5 deployment points.
- Cost of UH-1M Gunship has decreased by 5 deployment points.
- M551 Sheridan Speed increases by 5 km/h.
- M551A1 Sheridan Speed increases by 5 km/h.
- Improved optical M551 Sheridan to Normal.
- Improved optical M551A1 Sheridan to Normal.
PACT:
- Decreased range of recoilless Tarasnice (OT-62 OT & TOPS-2A-65 Vydra) to 1000.
- Cost of T-62M-1 has increased by 5 deployment points.
- Cost of T-62M-V has increased by 10 deployment points.
- Cost of Spadochroniarze has increased by 5 deployment points.
- Availability of Vysadkaru decreases from 20 to 8.
- Increased the RoF UAZ-469 Konkurs to put on an equal footing with other vehicles to load external ATGM.
NOTICE : If you did the XP SP3 compatibility workaround under windows 7/Vista, it's worth trying to undo that, because we fixed issues concerning this. This will allow you to run DX11 again.
DX11 provides higher performance on modern GPUS, plus AntiAliasing compatible SSAO and motion blur.
Fix : DX11 crash running with Fraps, TeamSpeak, or other overlays.
Fix : Mouse disappearing or clamped to a small region with Windows Vista/7 and font/icon magnification
Fix : DX11 crash in some cases.
Glitch Fix : Low brightness with graphics settings on Very Low.
Glitch Fix : VSync on as default setting.
Glitch Fix : Units are not blurred when you use the track cam.
Glitch Fix : On some graphics cards, when running DX9, trees and grass were a bit clipped on the top/sides.
Glitch Fix : Less flickering when max video memory has been reached.
Improvement : Improved tree/grass rendering performance.
Improvement : Large performance increase on nvidia graphics cards (up to +60% FPS) when you used Autodetect settings. As a rule, avoid manually setting the Instancing Mode to Hardware Instancing on nvidia cards.
Improvement : Tweaks on the graphics settings autodetection.
Improvement : The ground quality setting now adjusts the distance at which the trees pop. No need to hack the Option.ini anymore.
Improvement : The units are nicer when you run on low/very low graphics settings.
Improvement : The game generally uses a bit less video memory - so it will tolerate better graphics settings on powerful but low memory GPUs.
Improvement : The outgame GUI FPS is largely increased on old GPUs.
Improvement : The objects and textures appear faster on dual core systems.
Compatibility : If for some reason, the game fails to boot on DX11 under vista/7, it will show a dialog box allowing you to run in default settings mode with DX9 (DX11 can be enabled again through the options menu).
Compatiblity : Better crossfire support with DX9 under Vista/7.
Compatiblity : Disappearing trees fixed on NVidia 7xxx series.
Compatiblity : Shadows fixed on NVidia 7xxx series.
Geek Stuff : you can disable the Camera Flare in the Option.ini if you really want to. (RenderLensFlare = false)
Good is a relative term. As Stalin said, "Quantity has a quality all its own."Originally Posted by Brenil
The problem you are experiencing is the particular reason I don't call in "large and powerful" tanks: they are easy targets when swarmed, which is likely to happen when the only good Pact tank isn't that good at lower tiers. I use Leopard 1s and Pattons for NATO, which are just as good at taking out the Soviet tank swarm and can cover multiple angles (due to numbers), engage more targets (due to numbers), and cost less. Not only that, they have a quality and numbers that make up for their lack of ATGMs such a reasonable armor and weapon stability. There is really no point to NOT using smaller and more numerable tanks as well. Change your tactics to better deal with enemy swarms.
They will not change powerful MBTs to a lower point level. It would horribly unbalance the game. Therefore, you must adapt to fight the more numerous enemies that PACT uses.
Should I put in that Einstein quote about insanity, doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results? Guess I just did.
Synopsis of your post:
Spam cheap tanks to fight cheap tank spam.
Gotcha. Insightful as always Mirehn, even without quoting others to bolster your position.
Thank you, BrenilInsightful as always Mirehn. I always try to be helpful by pointing out other people's mistakes to improve their gameplay.
But in case anyone didn't understand my point, it's that if your tactics are ineffective against a specific strategy, changing your strategy will help you achieve victory. Continuing to use the same tactics that consistently fail will not net you victory.
I have already pointed one specific case to defeat PACT tank spam: upgraded but lower tier NATO tanks such as the Leopard 1A5 and Rise Pattons will enable you to defeat tank spam as well as allow you to call in a reasonable force comp in case your opponent doesn't have a full tank spam compliment.
#364
Hey Mirehn, guess what you're doing when you call in equitable cheap tanks to beat the cheap tanks. Hint: the same thing. But oh wait! I forgot! You're supposed to do it better. That's what we were missing!
Thanks Mirehn. I'll make sure to never use expensive tanks again because they don't fit in the meta, and it's better to forget about them. Maybe helicopters too, while I'm at it. Ah, who am I kidding. Cheap units all day erry day. Rest of the points in arty for superior tactics.
Also:
This is priceless. I really hope you see the irony gushing forth from this statement like a geyser of black gold.They will not change powerful MBTs to a lower point level. It would horribly unbalance the game. Therefore, you must adapt to fight the more numerous enemies that PACT uses.
So I finally drew somebody who tank rushs as pact. It wasn't a pure t-55 rush but his forcecomp wasn't bad. Apart from the complete lack of AA, but the fight was effectively over by the time my helo's showed up. I might have lost the town without the helos, but I had stopped his rush and come out far ahead points wise.
Pretty brutal fight on dual field though. 20 vet1 VTS1s + 4 vulcans + recon vs 12 T-55s, 7 T-64As, 7 T-62s, 10 FAGOT squads, 2 flamethrower tanks + some supply trucks.
http://www.wargamereplays.org/index....=replay&id=149
Last edited by Bentguru; 9th Mar 12 at 3:57 PM.
I guess there is no way to re-lock a unit once you've unlocked it.... Dang it!
... why would you want to re-lock a unit?
Just to free up stars for something useful.
That'd somewhat defeat the purpose of the progression system if you could just trade in stars.
Yeah, I know. I just hate when I buy something stupid. If you pick something useful then are only allowed to deploy 2 of it, for instance, it hurts your deck.
What would also be cool is if you could easily tell your units to face a certain direction since facing is so important. Like in Combat Mission.
People complain about tank spam too much. Or mibby I've just been up against bad players. My forces are normally made up of cheap light infantry with some light AT and a few ATGM's in the back. I see tank spam, I hide my whole force in the nearest forrest. They follow you in to about sight radius and then blam, at point blank range you take out there tanks as they come in squad at a time. The tanks at the back cant kill because of no line of sight, yet all my guns can focus on the few of their units. Although, a pinch of artillery would destroy this tactic, but I've yet to see a spammer use any. Another thing I've noticed is that most tank spammers I've played against lack multiple HQ's. So just sneak round and kick the shit out it while he's busy steamrollering your forces.
I guess it's all about defence in depth. He'll run out of steam eventually so just reinforce every choke point and make sure it's somewhere you can surprise his units, like the far side of a town, so he can't mass fire those main tanks guns on your units. Oh and always reinforce with one or two sams or flak tanks. A sneaky mig is disastrous.
"Celtic fans right now sit in silence and watch, and hope that the damage doesn't get any worse from this Graham Carey free kick. Away by Wilson. Teale. Still options waiting in the middle for St. Mirren...OH, AND THEY HAVE ANOTHER ONE! It's stunning! It's absolutely stunning at Hampden park! And it's Steven Thompson, who scores his thirteenth goal of the season, and that might just be the goal that takes St. Mirren into the league cup final!" - 27/01/2013
You know you can attack ground, right?
Yep.Or mibby I've just been up against bad players.
It should also be pointed out that it's usually the bad players that try this gamey type of shit as their entire 'battle plan'. If they could win the traditional way, they wouldn't need to tank spam.
Actually a significant amount of the top 10 players spam. GOLYO, who's #4 right now, does this unbelievably retarded TOPAS spam with 4-8 helos and just attack moves to the enemy base. He's not what would call good in any sense of the word but I expect he wins most of the time purely because most players aren't competent to crush his spam. Rushes are very effective right now, particularly when employed by a competent player.
I've been crushing the ladder so far (#9 right now I think) with a fast attack strategy that could be termed a spam since it contains 16 VTS1s in addition to a bunch of support units and tanks. And I'm not really sure there is a good build to it. Fwiw, shoota, if you hide in a forest I'll just surround you and fill in the rest of the map while you're locked in your base.
I love this game, but I agree with you guys. The moral system is broken. If you simulated the Abrams recon in force through the streets of
Baghdad, what do you think would happen in W-EE?
Why would you use Abrams on the Baghdad map? God... n00b.
Pattons all day 'ery day.
A mortar explodes nearby all the abrams are "routed" and stop functioning for 10 minutes, some guys with crappy RPGs then kill them all.
You'll know the game's moral is "fixed" when you can make the Abram's run through Baghdad. Or... are you being sarcastic? If so Bazinga!
It's more toward the point that heavy tanks in the game are useless because the morale system (and to a lesser degree, the hitpoint system) are so screwed up. This makes loads of cheaper tanks, like the Pattons, more viable than Challengers and Abrams in realistic game scenarios. Which is dumb.
So yeah, I found a game-breaking bug yesterday that explains why vetted cheap unit spam has been so amazingly effective.
http://www.wargame-ee.com/forum/view...hp?f=14&t=3532
tldr version; the 7.5% increase in accuracy you get per vet level is completely absolute and not range/movement dependent. So your horrendously shit gun that hits at 5% at max range with vet 1 will hit at ~13%, vet 2 ~19%, vet 3 ~25%, etc etc at max range while moving.
It's obviously game breaking, but please comment and keep the thread up on the boards. This really really needs to be fixed.
I commented. But, like I said there, I had an inkling it was broken, but not this badly.
I've always thought the pricing aspect of it was dumb, not broken, but dumb.
This though.... it just breaks the game. Completely.
I've not had time to look through all the change logs, but I'm quite impressed with how often they patch and update bugs and gameplay fixes in this game. Good developer support so far, lets hope it lasts.
Well, by now they're almost an indie studio, so they ought to do something with their time :P
Basic problems aren't addressed. It's a band aid.
This game worth getting at its current steam' weekend deal of 50% off?
I'd say yes. Whenever I've had the chance to play it I've enjoyed the game immensely. Lots of fun online play, etc. I got my money's worth out of it.
The game's worth the price of admission, especially if some of your friends have it as well. Most of the glaring issues (like tank spam) have been addressed and it's a solid game, just as long as you're not looking for Men of War-style infantry action, as that is the weakest part of the game.
Yea Wargame is defiantly worth it, particularly at 50% off.
I agree. The only issue I have is with the Ranked automatch system. The only players that seem to do that are spammers and people who abuse certain units. Best to avoid that and stick to standard games. Amazing game though, I'm really glad I picked it up.
This is different from other RTS games... how exactly?The only players that seem to do that are spammers and people who abuse certain units.
Well CoH isn't full of exploiters. It has some, yes, but in automatch I'd say it couldn't be more than one in six. No need for the tone.
There's no tone, it's simply pointing out that all RTS suffer from this and that singling Wargame out is more than a little unfair.
#394
I'd like to note that CoH has a faction built around spamming units...
Except only Wargame of the most recent games had the issue of somebody spamming the cheapest tank and rolling over everyone else.
The operative word being had. Shoota Fodder was referring to the present, not the past. That says nothing of the fact that there haven't exactly been a flood of RTS games recently, so once again that's an unfair statement.
#397
Just got this game, playing through the campaigns. I take it that one basically has to finish the single player and unlock enough command stars to even have a hope of playing multiplayer (lol only having leopard 1a1's).
Now that most people are beyond level 1, yea. The starter decks aren't that bad once you have the variants unlocked, though not amazing. I highly recommend getting good scout units first with your stars. For NATO that means the Luchas and the Gazelle. For Pact, you want the BRM-1 and the Mi-9. Those units a nigh vital for a competitive deck. Beyond that you will want good AA, so the Roland and Chap for NATO and the Tung and BUK for Pact. There are other good AA choices but those are IMHO, the best for new players. Just remember to keep a supply truck next the Chap and BUK at all times. And fully vet the Chap.
Don't bother with the Buk. The aiming time makes it a poor choice in most situations--it's only really useful for zoning out extremely large areas of a map which is only practical on the largest maps. It's operational range is also fairly low so mobility isn't high. If you want something to provide decent AA for Pact, go for the Tunguska or the Strop 2. Both are excellent choices. Don't discount AAA either. The Shilka is very potent especially since it has a stabilizer allowing for accurate fire while on the move. The Chap is likewise useless unless you like to babysit your AA with supply vehicles. It only has four missiles before it's out and it won't hit a damn thing unless it's vetted.
Also, ditch the Gazelle for NATO recon. The best choice for chopper recon is the Kiowa since it has the same optical quality as the Gazelle but is armed with four hellfire missiles.
#400
Gazelle is still a better choice for new players because it's less costly when you make a mistake. Which you will make many of early on because of how seemingly unpredictable AA fire is.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
