I looked up at all the previous points you made actually and that sums up what I need to know. I think I'll grab this.
Is there any Vehicle module damage in this game?
I looked up at all the previous points you made actually and that sums up what I need to know. I think I'll grab this.
Is there any Vehicle module damage in this game?
Vehicle Module Damage? You can disable things like firing computers for about a minute(cant remember the exact amount of time) while they restart and such. Dont know if thats what you mean though.
I've seen vehicles throw tracks after getting bogged down in the mud and rugged terrain or after a good pounding from artillery.
After a little bit of trial and error, it seems that the Tunguska does actually out-range the Apache with its missiles. I recommend actually having both the Tunguska and the Kub/Buk in your deck however. While some of their uses overlap, they serve different roles.
Can someone sum up a review of the MP portion of the game? I'm slowly getting more and more interested in it, and I'd like to know more before I buy it.
Yeah, but it was boring, slow and too much of a 'this button does this and this button makes the unit go pew pew'.
I'm more interested in - how does the game run, how is the balance, how are the controls and stuff like that.
Well the game is slower than most RTS in terms of flow.
You can have a nicely set up army, get into combat, and lose your whole stack if you don't play it smart in a matter of minutes, while you can still continue fighting with new units, you're extremely crippled. It's all about fighting and moving smart, flanking actually really pays off. Nothing is really overpowered in my eyes, it's pretty rock paper scissor, AA (And infantry + their vehicles in cover) > Air, Air > anything not AA, Arty/HE stuff > inf (But if you manage to engage the arty in closer quarters, they're gone), Inf > all only if they're in forest cover, otherwise they're dead instantly, you can still kill tanks with lighter AT jeeps or fast light armored vehicles if you play it right, etc, etc. Having the biggest and baddest units won't win the game for you, if anything, it's extremely risky because if they get destroyed, you're out a ton of points.
For example, on my first game I grabbed some infantry from the starter deck, positioned them nicely in the middle in a few wooded areas, a guy 16 levels above me attacked me with the best NATO units, but he used it badly and thought he could overrun me, resulting in his whole army being destroyed.
Units constantly need to be resupplied also, be it by trucks or by helicopter supply runs. It adds a really nice element to the game.
There is also a crapload of different units to pretty much suit everyones playstyle, be it stealthy, hard armored, long range/medium range support, infantry combat, long distance air drops, etc, etc.
Honestly, this is the most fun strategy game I've played in ages, it doesn't feel like RUSE at all, it just has the large scale elements of it. Combat is sort of World in Conflict, but not really, I don't know, I really, really like it, especially if you play with a friend or two on the same team and work together.
I feel like this is a silly question to ask, but will there be a demo? I don't want to shell out $40 for an awesome game only to find it won't work with my system.
Author: Children of Kadesh, Children of Kadesh (book 2), The Taiidan Civil War, The Fire ,Tradition, Outcry (oneshot), Chronicles of the Nadiim-Basad,
and maker of the Map of the Homeworld universe, and the Homeworld 2 Grand Strategy Game. Responsible for Cataclysm 2nd. Also has a running short story collection.
Never played RUSE, or WiC, but am having a real blast playing this. It's a lot like CoH in some ways when it comes to directional armor and unit positioning, but with a much stronger emphasis on recon and logistics. Stumbling onto infantry with your MBT column will result in the quick death of all your armor despite the fact that that infantry costs 1/10th of the tanks.
Tank battles are really fun too, smart unit positioning can absolutely wreck a larger tank force. I just finished a game where I had 2 squads of 2 M1A1s that ran into 14 T-62s and T-72s, and from using my range advantage and better stabilizers I destroyed the entire column with no losses.
I do hope they add the ability to call in infantry without a vehicle and a way to construct more FOBs though.
Agreed. It has every detail you love from CoH but are the size of flies when you zoom out on 150 km squared map. I love CoH but most tanks battles did not occur with both sides 100 meters from each other. Sure in the cities that happens but other wise, no. Also unlike WiC and CoH there is no off map support, which I kind of miss but you can instead have your anti air, helicopters, helicopter transports, artillery, and flanking reinforcements all happening on the map. The level of detail with ammo, armor, fuel, and vechicle damage great than Men at War. In addition, the maps are so huge that supplies actually matter. I can't tell you how many times I have wanted to wage a ware of attrition in other games and then I find out it is not a sound strategy. In this game it is if you are playing to a average amount of points. Example, a SAM unit or anti-tank missile Bradley may only have 4 rockets. Once those are gone, you can't pick up ammo boxes. You have to run a supply truck out in the field. What is nice is they auto resupply once the truck is with in range. However, I have found that a squad of tanks with no fuel require a few trucks (or supply helicopters). With the 360 units this game has, the game will be worth having for single player alone. But the multiplexer so far is amazing. I have had a genuenly good experience launching flanking maneuvers and flying in chopper support. I highly recommend this game.
I think that Men Of War still has better damage model.The level of detail with ammo, armor, fuel, and vechicle damage great than Men at War
Unfortunately I wont be able to invest a lot of time into multiplayer before the release. Guys please post some useful units to unlock first when the game goes live.
I think my only complaint about the game so far is how "flat" the maps are. The only terrain features that matter right now are forests and buildings, which is too bad. I would have liked naturally defendable areas like rivers and cliffs. Perhaps in new / other maps...
On a side note, every piece of land appears too well manicured. I mean, look at the perfectly plateaued hills. The prim and proper forests. The aesthetically pleasing fields of grass. Good thing it all gets flattened and catches on fire easy.
Also I find it funny how the game offers so many redundant and poor choices for your deck. I appreciate the ability to deploy to deploy masses of T34/85s uselessly, and being able to choose essentially the same infantry but with a different hat.
@Trizz, I'm sure they'll add more interesting terrain in the future, or maybe even retail, but I did have a slight 'Out of sight' even though in range, due to terrain (not forest) on the left side on Hell's Highway.
A thing I also love is the range play. You can have a Jeep TOW, or multiples and just kite heavy tanks, but stay alive, because of your speed and 500-600 range advantage.
I didn't think I'd like the infantry in this game, but I absolutely love it, and even though I got like Dragon II's with Bradleys, my Jagers are still my 'most used unit', they're amazing, cheap as dirty but pack such a punch. In one game my friend and I were playing against someone who had double our level and the other one had tripple, we almost lost and got pushed back on Hell's Highway pretty badly, but in one forest I had 3-4 Jagers and some basic Leos, man, they killed at least 15-20 T55s and T64s. Then from the other side, a huge blob of T55s and T64s was at our FOBs, I just had 1 TOW jeep and a VAB Meph with missles, I threw them in the treeline at the base, had rolands behind them, and due to the range bonus, I stopped the whole blob and we won, rofl. It was epic.
From what I know, the game has small hills where you gain advantage, but if the enemy is directly under the hill you won't see it if you're on top, and it works in both ways. Unit directly under the hill won't see what's on it.
From what I've seen the damage model is just a dice roll when the conditions are right. If a unit takes fire, the game rolls dice to see if it suffers a critical hit. Same with travelling through forests.
What about the mesas? They make good AA sites but defending them can be tricky. Sitting on the ridge line exposes you, being too close just asks for some spunky infantry to walk up and LAW you.I think my only complaint about the game so far is how "flat" the maps are. The only terrain features that matter right now are forests and buildings, which is too bad. I would have liked naturally defendable areas like rivers and cliffs. Perhaps in new / other maps...
Its not really RPS. Like MoW, everything has the opportunity to kill everything else expect in some extreme circumstances such as missile AA vs ground units. Infantry in fast transports or in forests can take out tanks pretty well but die if left in the open. The only really hard counter is AA vs Helo mostly due to cost differences, but a well microed Helo is extremely dangerous so I think it works out.Nothing is really overpowered in my eyes, it's pretty rock paper scissor,
In terms of balance? Well, I think AAA is a little bit too well rounded and stuns tanks a tad bit too well. And my beloved T-55 and its variants are probably too good for there cost. Otherwise everything seems rather well done other then confirmed bugs or unintentional mistakes.
I love how a squad of 2 Abrams wipes the floor of 8 of my allies T-72/T-80 army (he admitted they weren't the best variant), but my Shilkas can practically stunlock them long enough for a random Motostrelski squad to finish them off.
So the most annoying thing in wargame:ee are helicopter rushers, artillery spammers, and team mates stealing supplies from your base once his has run out.
I have had success dealing with the first two. The last... >=\
"I'm busy ramming bits of flaming rotting walking corpse down the throat of a floating kitten and I'm going to do it until it gets heart attack." --Afoxi, Spiral Knights.
I remember RUSE having plane rushing/all-in-ing, artillery spam and stupid teammates (who might not steal your resources immediately but were annoying in their own rights) and after the free DLC, nuclear artillery spammers.
Funny you say Arty spammers. I just had a 4v4 game where I scored 4,000 points out of the 7,000 needed for victory and only lost a single Hind VP to a dam Roland. It would seem that MLRS systems do not, in fact, counter T-55s and Tungs. Who knew?
Last edited by Busby; 15th Feb 12 at 10:06 AM.
The best part is when the ally spammers are on your side, using lowtech variants with poor accuracy, and constantly firing into unsighted terrain using up all your supplies and hitting nothing in the process.So the most annoying thing in wargame:ee are helicopter rushers, artillery spammers, and team mates stealing supplies from your base once his has run out.
It's so freaking cheap when they shoot you right at the start (when you're leaving your main base).
What is your guy's favorite method of killing arty that's defended? I've been trying some fast armored Recon flanks, but while I have some success with it, it never really works as well as I hope.
And, best units to clear infantry with out arty? Mortars?
Also, does anyone have any experience with the heli recon, especially those with 'Exceptional' optics? How is their few range?
Having arty on my team do corrected bombardment while i scout, or having someone else airdrop spetsnaz in the woods nearby?
Really the best option you have might be to counter recon and make sure all they can do is blind fire, while trying your darnest to get corrected shots for your team's arty.
One option that rarely works but tends to work spectacularly if it does is to push actual light/medium tanks into their base. AA will stun tanks, so the more the merrier, meaning don't bring heavy tanks unless it's your plan to keep their things distracted while you rush lighter things around to their AAA/Arty.
A lot of combat happens around the control zones, and a lot of people haven't wrapped their heads around the fact that you can avoid these zones altogether, so sneaking is viable.
counter-artillery works well if you call it in on demand. if it is defended so much the better. the inaccuracy at that range should net you the kills before he can react.
mortars are artillery >.<And, best units to clear infantry with out arty? Mortars?
clear infantry out with elite riflemen.
also. the Russians get a bloody nasty napalm on one of their tanks. use that.
Flame-throwers. Special forces also do pretty well, particularly Spetnaz and SAS who also count as recon units.And, best units to clear infantry with out arty? Mortars?
Edit: Also, Gunship rocket pods with attack position command.
Helicopter recon is extremely good, mostly because it is not as heavily impacted by ground clutter as ground units. They are very useful though you should keep an eye on them as they die even faster to AA then other helicopters. I personal use the Mi-2 (very good optics I believe) for my Russian deck rather then the more expensive exceptional one, but I do use the Gazelle for my NATO deck and there is a noticeable difference, but not a crippling one.Also, does anyone have any experience with the heli recon, especially those with 'Exceptional' optics? How is their few range?
The kiowa warrior variant is also a good recon helo, and it comes armed with 4 hellfire missles you can take potshots with.
I am getting a bit depressed at the metagame atm, p. much anybody really does is sit back and arty each other to death. I think the arty morale damage mechanic needs to be changed so that it's less effective vs armor, also ATGMs are just flat out too good atm. They practically make tanks useless, particularly high tech MBTs since they can still be 1 shotted by ATGMs.
You're kidding. I had a squad of 4 T-62M-Vs that couldn't flank a Challenger? My Tunguska pins it down, salvo after salvo of ATGMs hits the damn thing and I swear I saw three or four missiles bounce off.
Yea ATGMs are godly. I don't even use tanks, not worth it, cheaper ATGM vehicles that have longer range > any tank, lol.
But I do love my infantry. <3
to be fair afoxi... the challenger is meant to do that XD
Make no mistake, cheap tanks like the older variant T-62 and most T-55s are worth it for their speed and ability to entrench and point their armor towards random light vehicles that might be thinking of sneaking to your command centers, and providing fire support for your infantry.
Tier up when you're dealing with artillery and/or other tanks, don't tier up when facing ATGMs.
Level 10 = 25 stars. BRB, unlocking T-64, Buratino, T-55 and Airdrop Spetnaz.
Holy crap, someone just rushed us with only APCs, cheap ones with autocannons.
He rolled over EVERYTHING. He said he wins every game like this, even if he's outnumbered.
Well I guess, there is cheap tactics in every game... lol. It's the most OP thing I've encountered.
Everyone I've seen so far is godawful, granted it's only been like 4 games... but high tech tanks seem like kind of a waste. ATGMs and flanking attacks with crappy tanks have killed sooooo many Leopard 2's. Also, me and Black murdered 20 pieces of artillery in the last game we played... then the enemy surrendered.
Last edited by Infidelicious; 16th Feb 12 at 11:11 AM.
Lolol Bastion nerf. 10 -> 6 acc.
The 100 pointers are like the heavy tanks in Men of War. They are great units, but they can't win the war by themselves. They need to be used correctly, supported by other units, to be effective, just like helicopters. But yea. I've also killed so many Leo 2s, Challengers, and Abrams with my T-55s. The AMV-1s snipe them with BASTIONS while the AMs eat up their shots. Then my BMP 685's either charge or flank them and unleash there rather amazing guns into the nice delicious arse armour. Those units combined with some ground and air recon, plus a pair of reasonably vetted Tunguskas have held me through nearly every kind of situation other then a Cobra spam once; and that was my fault as I had the Tungs in a group, out of missiles, and I didn't charge my tanks at them to use the rather decent HMGs on them.
That seems a little... Drastic. Most of the changes are good. We will see about the BASTION nerf though. My poor AMV-1s...Lolol Bastion nerf. 10 -> 6 acc.
I really hope they don't start fucking with weapon stats for the sole purpose of "balance." The asymmetrical nature of the Pact and NATO units is what makes this game so much fun.
More and more rushes, ffs shit like that ruins the game.
Most rushes straight into the other base just destroys it completely lol and it's near unstoppable.
They need to change autocannons ability to wreck tanks moral. It's common to see autocannon spam at the front of most tank rushes now and it makes enemy tanks useless within seconds.
Anybody interested in starting a group? I'm tired of getting teammates who decide to flank ALL THE WAY AROUND on hells highway (instead of, you know, supporting my attack) and then run out of fuel before doing anything. I'm bentguru in-game
They made AA tanks less effective on ground target, they reduced ground range and morale damage.
So, just unlocked M1A1 Abrams, and dear god they're beasts. Highly mobile, very accurate even on the move, and tough enough to withstand a few ATGM strikes before either getting out of range or blowing that AT team to hell. And they absolutely destroy WP tanks, anything less than a T-72B has no chance at all and gets 1-2 shotted from max range by moving M1A1s. I've had multiple games now where a 4 tank platoon has destroyed upwards of 30 tanks during the course of a game, including T-80 variants, with barely any losses.
In fact the only game where I've lost my entire platoon was a 2v2 on joint strike where my M1A1s rolled up the entire left of side of the map in tandem with recon and rolands, destroyed 2.5k worth of equipment, and were pushing on the enemy base 1 shotting their desperation ATGM jeeps until I ran out of fuel short of their fob and get sniped out with missles from range.
I cannot play this anymore due to Access Violation crash always occurring first 5-10 mins into the game.
Also I've started to dislike attrition based victory conditions. Wish for an objective based take and hold game mode.
In case anybody was interested I uploaded a few replays. Two of which feature M1A1s being the sharp end of the stick, the third just has ridiculous tank battles and good combined artillery/tank usage (highly suggest you just use track cam on one of the M1 abrams and watch the show).
btw, has anybody else noticed lots of WP players massing vet T-62s recently? Ever since the patch I've been seeing it in droves, my theory is that lots of WP players are used to the T-55MV variant (whichever one had the bastion) and have kept the "cheap mass tanks" strategy going since the bastion nerf.
Yup, a lot have been switching, but I'm seeing a ton of M1A1s too. Russian infantry eats M1A1s alive though.
Lately I've been toying around with using really cheap stuff effectively, like TOW jeeps and Wiesels, has been working really well. Nothing like a pack of TOW jeeps mowing down 8-12 expensive tanks. Trying to experiment as much as possible to be honest before the release.
If anyone wants to team up sometime, add me in game: Timbab.
Edit: Where does it save the replays to?
My main concern with the BASTION nerf is that it hurt the already unused BMP-3. The poor thing is just too expensive as an IFV, compared to the BMP-1 and the BMP-2, for a missile that is worse then the BMP-2s. If it's 100mm, which is the same one on the BMP 685 (a very good tank for 40 points, I might add), had the same AP value it might be worthwhile, but it doesn't and is purely HE. While the BASTION nerf was fully justified on the T-55 and T-62, the BMP-3 now has a huge lack of anti-tank ability compared to its predecessors. I'm not sure it was worth it before the nerf, now I'm pretty sure its not worth it.
Finally got enough school work done to justify purchasing the game. Had several fun matches (on crazy low settings for a 4 year old laptop...).
Turns out that infantry entrenched in cover are pretty invulnerable, I fended off several attacks using formations of infantry in wood lines. Also, I found that I'm going through supplies very quickly, have other people noticed this?
People who use indirect fire with tanks just totally rape infantry in woods, I just learned the hard way. :/
Flame tanks are better than indirect tank fire really, 1 or 2 zippos will ruin an infantry formations day very fast.
Just had another game with 5 clanners, 2 of them + me vs the other 3, all of them lvl 20+. Despite losing my recon heli like a nub and my command track getting sniped (leading to me not being able to reinforce at all) my initial 2 M1A1s took out my opponents first 8 T-62 variants, the subsequent 4 T-55-MVs, and many many BMP-1s that he tried to spam to stop them.
Each AP 10 ATGM only did a couple of blocks of damage on my front armor, but from max range my M1A1s were 1 shotting APCs. Best tanks ever. We won 3000 points to 1400 or so despite the fact that they earned 1800 command points over the course of the game compared to our 800
Last edited by Bentguru; 17th Feb 12 at 3:51 PM.
Yea I know, but I've had someone in T55s totally wreck my Jagers and ATGM troops in a few shots. It's the first time it has happened to me like that. Also any anti tank vehicle I threw at them (and I've fought quite a lot with them) just got murdered by cheap tanks. Kind of shocked me.
So this is what I have planned for a NATO deck. Assume all variants unlocked.
M577 CPC (Armored Command)
UH-1A (Fast Command)
Super Chinook (Bulk supply)
HEMTT (Armored Supply)
Puma (Fast Supply) (can be removed/exchanged)
ERC-90 SAGAIE (Light Tank/Recon)
M3 Bradley CFV (IFV/Recon)
OH-58C Kiowa (Heli/Recon)
M60A2E1 Starship (Cheap Tank)
M551 Sheridan (Fast Tank)
Leopard 2 (Fast Heavy Tank)
Challenger 1 (Flagship Heavy)
MBT-70 (can be removed/exchanged)
ATGM Dragon 2 + M2 Bradley IFV (ATGM Infantry)(can be removed/exchanged)
Stinger + M2 Bradley IFV (AA Infantry)
Riflemen + M2 Bradley IFV (LAW Infantry)
Green Jackets + Lynx AH.1 (Recon/Elite)
- Need Suggestion for Non-elite LAW Infantry -
M109 Paladin (General Purpose Artillery)
M163 Vulcan (Heli flood prevention)
M48 Chapparal (Long Range SAM, Anti ATGM Heli)
AMX 30 Roland (Accurate SAM)
AH-1S Cobra (Heavy Ground Attack)
UH-1M Heavy Hog (Cheap Ground Attack)
APCs don't count for deck size limit so that just about puts me at 25/25.
Lynx AH.1 TOW (AT Heli)
OH-58C/S (AA Heli)
AH-64 Apache (Shits and Giggles)
Comments - I have no idea what the odds are of me using the Leopard 2, Challenger, and Apache since experience with PACT shows that I hardly ever use my Heavy Tanks or Havocs.
Last edited by Afoxi; 17th Feb 12 at 4:30 PM.
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