Rumor: THQ all but dead, cancels 2014 games, looking for a buyer

[Gorb]

depends what the retrib team have been doing for the last year...

You mean all of the ones that weren't fired?

Because that doesn't leave many.

[Mokino]

Indeed Gorb. I wouldn't be surprised if DoW 3 simply vanishes into the ether never to be seen.

[CommissarRezail]

Indeed Gorb. I wouldn't be surprised if DoW 3 simply vanishes into the ether never to be seen.

Wait Wait, I remember, someone said " what we was working on was awesome, i hope you guys get the play it" So it could mean they was working on dow 3. Besides if its drop in the warp, I jump into the rift my self to get it.

[Shaitan]

I'm pretty positive that DoW3 is being worked and will be the next game to follow CoH2. Does it have a bunch of Relic employees working on it? Perhaps not, but I'm sure it's in some stage of development. Things would have to be really dire for them to not have some sort of plan after CoH2. In all likelihood work on DoW3 begun shortly before Retribution shipped (at least in some capacity) and continues now. It wouldn't really make sense financially - especially if you plan on eventually digging yourself out of the hole - for THQ to decide to stop work on it, ESPECIALLY when they bought the rights from GW to make it.

I know guys at Relic have denied, which is exactly what they're supposed to do. Why would Danny Bilson talk about it and having seen it if he had not? I wouldn't hold my breath, I think it's a long way off and could very well be cancelled for all we know but I don't think we're in such dire straits yet.

EDIT:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...ore-games-boss

Most interesting part ... in relation to DoW3.

I have to ask about Dawn of War 3, which you've spoken to Eurogamer about before. You mentioned an announcement that didn't materialise. What's happening with it?

Danny Bilson: There's a lot of rethinking going on right now with the RTS 40k stuff. We're going to do something different, but we're in a bit of a rethinking mode. What we had to do at Relic was prioritise Company of Heroes 2 now and then move back to 40k. With that we moved that over here for a bit - just a bit - because we needed to load all the resource onto making Company of Heroes 2 awesome.

But look, everybody at Relic loves 40k. I love 40k. I also have tremendous respect for Games Workshop and the people I work with there. They're some of the best people I've ever worked with in my career. So I personally feel really strongly about that brand.

So Dawn of War 3 isn't dead?

Danny Bilson: No. But we're doing some rethinking. What that really has to do with is the RTS business, and what's the best way to present RTS? We're not getting out of RTS. It's just, what's the best way to present it in the future? We'll be talking more about that later. There are aspects of Company of Heroes we haven't talked about that are progressive and forward thinking, that we'll roll out between now and the launch of the game. We're just giving you the first look at Company of Heroes 2. There's actually more to it.

[Croaxleigh]

That interview makes it sound like it's either not in production or it's been scrapped/backburnered. He says "rethinking" three times and talks about how they're "going to do something different." So most likely what happened was a conversation like this:

Relic: "Hey, are we going to do DoW3 next?"
Bilson: "This just in: Relic working on DoW3!!!1!"
Relic: "We are? I mean, we just asked about it... does that mean you want us to go ahead and start on it?"
Bilson: "This just in: Relic talking about DoW3, huge features planned, official announcement coming soon!!!!!1!!"
Relic: "Uh... ok. So what about this CoH2 stuff that we've been working on?"
Bilson: "This just in: Relic rethinking DoW3! Now focusing on CoH2!!"
Relic: "..."

[Shaitan]

It's still in pre-production by the looks of it, which for me is fine, if THQ ends up surviving. I want CoH2 to get as much support as possible. Once they've made CoH2 awesome, I will be happy to see DoW3 get announced. Besides, DoW3 being a bit further away means that there's a better chance of them implementing models and ideas from soon to be released 6th edition codex in 40k.

[ÜberJumper]

FINALLY it comes out.

"What's DoW3?"

[Shaitan]

Interesting interview with Danny Bilson http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...s-f2p-hands-on.

The most relevant part

Q: Was there ever a temptation to go free-to-play?

Danny Bilson: Yes. Yes, we've looked at it.

Q: What was the deciding factor for not doing it?

Danny Bilson: I can't say we're not for sure because we're still looking at business models. So I don't really want to go into that, but we've talked about it and looked at it. We're talking about a lot of other stuff. Relic is working on experimenting and our desire is for them to lead us into the PC free-to-play world. And they're high quality, they've been PC game builders for years and they are tasked with that mission right now, and it's underway.

Q: Is not an area any publisher can afford to ignore anymore...

Danny Bilson: I love it. We've got a studio up there that is seriously investing in that.

Q: Do you think anyone has the free-to-play core game covered yet?

Danny Bilson: There's League Of Legends which is DoTa, repackaged. They've done really well, has been a phenomenal success. And that's a very hardcore game, almost too hardcore for me. I just get slaughtered! There is room in that world. I believe it, Relic believes it, Brian believes it and in the coming year you'll hear more from us about that.

Maybe DoW3 will go free to play? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Sparki]

moving Relic to a free-to-play company

°-° that's something.

I'm sure Relic will do well as such. There are a lot of good examples as they stated.

If Dark Millenium will have a decent multiplayer, then it doesn't have to be a MMO.
I'd still love to see it as a f2p-model at least, but hell with it. Interesting interviewer and I like the fact that that it was so open and giving us some background info.

It is all great news if you ask me.
I'd rather have THQ chunking out real tripple-A stuff but one has to keep it real and those are the right decisions.

[CommissarRezail]

Yeah Dark Millenium could be a battle field 1942 type of game. Hopeffully me being a guardsmen with a npc squad. It be interesting. Plus we still can have tanks and planes. Not to mention titans.

[Croaxleigh]

Given that a) this is the guy that's no longer with the company, b) this is the guy who's developed a reputation for talking out of his ass, and c) the "experiment" that they did with free-to-play was killed before it even made it out of beta, I wouldn't hold my breath about Relic producing free-to-play games. I wouldn't necessarily hold my breath in regards to Dark Millennium (or whatever it becomes) having a great multiplayer experience, either; the game likely would have been canceled completely if they hadn't poured so much money into it, so they're likely going to shove as much of it into a single-player campaign as they can fit and add some basic MP elements a la Space Marine.

Right now THQ can't afford to put the money and effort into a major push of AAA products; they're finishing up what they've got going in hopes of making money, just like they're doing a reverse split to keep from being delisted from the stock exchange. Right now the keyword at THQ is likely "stability", which in the gaming industry typically translates more to "generic" than "extraordinary."

[Gorb]

They received solid feedback from CoH:O Croaxleigh.

There's a lot of work that went into DM:O as well, I know people were disappointed internally when progress on that was reprioritised.

(also, arguably, SM MP was more expansive than SM SP )

Finally (one-liners, hoorah), you're underestimating the amount of focus they've given Relic to put into CoH 2. It's not "finishing up what they've got going", it's "cancel/halt everything else and get this one done right". Time will tell if they manage that, however.

[Sparki]

I still hope and assume DM:O will be released, it is just some "major delay" that rolled in. I doubt it will go as far as Duke Nukem Forever's abnoxious record.

To be honest - and along with free2play, something like a mix between Star Trek Online and that Mabinogi Heroes/Vindictus MMORPGs could be fun. With Relic and such, the development and beyond should be cool. They wouldn't have to go over-the-top with features either since WH40k is just awesome on its own. They just need to do it right, as mentioned with COH2.

Anyhow, that is wishful thining.

This is probably for another thread, but I was wondering what will happen if all these restructuring plans and such of THQ fail in some worst case situation fashion (gods forbid)?
Is it that realistic that with COH2 that they can really pull themselves out of this gloomy state?

[Liljagare]

I am still hoping someone else will pickup the rights, and that we will see Space Hulk again, and a Epic based game.

Gief TITANS!

[Mokino]

Sparki, COH2 probably won't be the game that saves them.

I guarantee that Saints Row 3 was their biggest earner last year. PC games simply do not sell the volumes that console and multiplatform releases do.

[Nanaki]

More bad news for THQ, that they apparently attempt to cover up by doing it during E3

[Mokino]

Sounds like they sold the license to EA for cash to stay afloat.

[CommissarRezail]

Because THQ could not stop for Death, He kindly stopped for THQ, and then bought UFC license, and walked away.

[Nalkor]

Death: SO I HAD TO GO OUT TODAY TO FIND A RATHER WEIRD THING HAPPENING. TURNS OUT AN ENTIRE COMPANY DIED YET THEY'RE STILL ALIVE SOMEHOW, I'M NOT SURE HOW TO HANDLE IT EVEN NOW.

[Gorb]

Kevin Dent's tweets are beginning to bug me with their attitude. Who the hell is this guy, apart from someone who tweets on everything publisher-related?

[Hirmetrium]

Sorry Gorb? who is Kevin Dent?

Very bad news about the sale of the UFC license.

[Gorb]

From the article:

Industry insider Kevin Dent tweeted: "Here is a classic jerk move, you wait until the press day of E3 press events and THEN you shutter THQ San Diego."

As something of a Twitter/developer-following junkie, I see him surfacing quite a lot. He was talking about the Relic layoffs a lot.

[sporty]

You needn't look farther than the first post of this thread, actually. Have to agree with Gorb though, that information could've been brought across less judgemental if the schedule "coincidence" is just his interpretation.

[Akranadas]

In the end, any time to tell people they are out of a job is a jerk move.

[Caeltos]

THQ's Jason Rubin said he wants to give his team of designers and developers the resources they need to make titles like Saints Row: The Third on the same playing field as Red Dead Redemption.

Rubin spoke to Gamasutra at E3 for an extensive interview about the plans and changes he has floating around his skull to save the fledgling publisher, the chief of which is changing the company's approach to the development process.

"The atmosphere under which they have been making games is not nearly as conducive as Sony, to put it mildly. They've had a hard time."

Rubin said he sees a lot of potential in the company's designers and developers but they have to have enough to work with, something THQ has been unwilling or weary to do in the past since a large portion of their funding have only come from a select few titles and franchises. He believes THQ can turn a title into the next Red Dead Redemption, as he put it, because developers with Rockstar "had enough money to do visuals, gameplay and story. In Saints Row, they had to pick a subset of that, but I think that team has the capability to do everything."

He also sees a lot of potential in not thinking as laterally as THQ once has in terms of competing just for core gamers. The buzz around titles at E3 like South Park: The Stick of Truth over old favorites like the new Halo after Monday's Microsoft press conference show that their audiences are always ready for something new instead of the same old, same old and can compete just as well by developing new audiences while taking risks on more unique games.

"At the end of the day, my experience with developers is… the most important thing is to make great titles. If they know they're going to be able to, they believe, and I believe those titles will find an audience one way or another."

Shameless copy-paste from http://www.gametrailers.com/side-mis...ld-leadership/

[Starblade]

Merging with the thread on THQ in the lounge.

[Afoxi]

On Saints Row The Third:

"Why couldn't that be a Red Dead Redemption or a Skyrim?" he said. "I look at that title and I say, ‘Who cares what it is and why it got to be what it is? From that team we can make something that isn't embarrassing."


and


"I don't think (Volition) chose to do what they did because they had all of the options available to them. It was the environment at the time.


"I know I can change that."

That was before the article got corrected. Either the journalist was sloppy or the guy went back and asked the article to be fixed.

Sources:
http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/...12-jason-rubin
https://twitter.com/#!/Jason_Rubin


Considering I decided to give Saints Row a second chance and I'm enjoying it, I'm not pleased with either one of them.


Also note to self:

[Trizzdog]

But it's fucking Burt Reynolds!

I'd say Saint's Row is spot on for what it aims to be. I don't understand what "turning it into the next Red Dead Redemption / Skyrim" means for it. A more comprehensive world? I don't think the purpose and design of the series fits into that.

Regardless of what people think, I believe Saint's Row is a hit, and is fine as is. If they were to make a mega-world-do-whatever-big-hueg-game, they should start with a new IP that's... serious enough to do that.

[Nalkor]

Sorry, but jumping out of a plane in a tank and shooting other tanks before having to leap out of that tank and into another tank to blow up even more tanks is just so awesome that trying to make it more serious like Skyrim or Red Dead Redemption would kill it for me. It's like Painkiller, by not taking itself seriously, it's totally fucking awesome.

[Afoxi]

and shooting other tanks before having to leap out of that tank and into another tank to blow up even more tanks

Just thought i should clarify in case people were wondering, that this entire sequence does in fact, happen in mid air.

[Mantaray]

also beating down steelport PD officers with a baseball bat complimented by a giant purple dildo is very satisfying.

[Busby]

Just thought i should clarify in case people were wondering, that this entire sequence does in fact, happen in mid air.

And then it directly results in a zombie outbreak.

@Mantaray, the best part about the penetrator is that it has a unique unholstering animation.

[Afoxi]

also beating down steelport PD officers with a baseball bat complimented by a giant purple dildo is very satisfying.

Fuck your bat and/or dildo, I have a proper giant anime sword complete with anime-styled charm on a chain doohicky attached to the hilt.

[Mantaray]

but its much more contextual when i make my protagonist look like a sister of battle.

[TDATL]

Saints Row 3 was pretty good but I can't forgive them for killing Gat! He was the coolest character in the whole series.

[Maktaka]

The problem was they killed Gat offscreen. During the intro. Without any real context. My response was a thoroughly confused "Wait, what?"

Volition commented after the game came out they didn't have time to polish up the story to where they wanted it to be. It was originally much more ambitious with more content planned, but time and budget constraints forced a downsize, leaving some characters without much of a role outside of brief windows in certain chapters (I'm looking at you Angel and Shaundi). That's the sort of stuff they're talking about, the time and money needed to make more content. The architecture of the neighborhoods also isn't very distinct, to the point that even after 60 hours of gameplay, I still don't feel like I could place myself on the map if you had me drive around a random city block, something that didn't happen in SR2.

[Hirmetrium]

I picked up Saint's Row the Third in the recent steam sale, with all the DLC, and I gotta say, its a pretty impressive title.

There's something immensely satisfying about the game, that I just can't put my finger on. GTA takes itself very seriously, as do other open worlders - saint's row revels in the ridiculous, making it very light hearted and easy to play.

I will say one thing - Brian Crecente is an absolute dick in that article. How can you say "I don't want my family seeing me play this because I'll be embarrassed" but condone the sort of violence in COD? I'm more embarrassed to play COD than I am to play SR3, ever. SR3 will always be tongue in cheek. The violence that COD, or other war shooters shows is much more horrible. That said, my mother would cringe at the BDSM house with the gimps pulling the horse and carriages; but even then its better than a generic war-shooter.

Guess it shows the sort of society we live in. I will admit its not something for children - but my girlfriend would get a good laugh out the game. Some game's are not for everyone too - Saint's caters to a mature audience whom are childish enough to find great entertainment in it.

EDIT: Fuck me did Rubin (and Crecente) make a massive fuck up of that. You do not diss your own dev teams - no matter what you think, when that team is the sole reason you even have a job, you do not say a word against them. Especially in a public relations interview like this.

Lets see what Rubin does with DMO. If he can actually make something of that financial sinkhole, then he's on his way to my good books.

[YurdleTheTurtle]

Some more not-so-good news:
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2012/07/0...ing-its-future

Basically, they announced a reverse split. I have no idea how business works but apparently it's a last-ditch sort of move in order to keep their stocks from being unlisted.

If anyone has a better idea of what this means please explain. Other than that, things still are looking pessimistic for THQ's future. Hoping they don't go down under because, you know, Relic...

[Weavern]

Yurdle the article explains it rather well. A reverse split is an effor tto boost the stock price by reducing the volume of shares on the market. Interms of their balance sheet it does nothing, as the company stock issance (the oustanding debt shareholders own in the company) is still the same, the # of shares is the only difference. Basically in an effort to remain listed, they are changing the # of shares in the market by merging 10 shares into 1. The value that the current stock holders have invested in the company remains unchanged for the most part.

This has nothing to do with the underlying finances or strength of THQ. But more a move to prevent a massive loss of face of being delisted off the exchange. Forcing major issues to get them registered somewhere else which may reduce their ability to issue stock.

[Trizzdog]

Having a reverse split is a negative thing because there are less shares to go around, less to be made off dividends, and less to be gained when stocks gain value. There is plenty of justification for the move, hence why it was done. The stock merge alone won't scare away investors. I mean, the stock was worth hardly anything before the move, merging doesn't change its face value. It's the performance in their next quarter that will decide their fate.

[sporty]

Was a long way coming, but now the nebulous Guillermo del Toro game Insane is officially cancelled.

Some (or more? ) good news too, THQ axing divisions on a scale like overexploitative logging in Russia finally resulted in actual profits, namely for Q1 of fiscal 2013.

[Hirmetrium]

The loss of Danny Bilson has likely seriously deteriorated the relationship between THQ and Guillermo del Toro. From what I understand, they were good friends?

It's very good news that they are in profit. Very good. Might be almost out of the woods.

I will however, point out that they have been heavily critisized for pulling out of the mobile and wireless market (which is noted as the fastest growing area).

[Gorb]

The critics should learn that when you don't have any money to finish your existing titles, money to invest into R&D is of an even lesser importance.

Who exactly is criticising them Hirm and why can't they see that such a market is completely superfluous for a publisher that can't even publish games at the moment?

[Hirmetrium]

One of the journo's in the comments over on vg247.com. Might be Pat?

I myself find it torn. THQ's mobile development is indeed in shambles, and they have no money for normal games, let alone mobile games; at the same time, you don't discard a very, very popular market that can easily be broken into with cheaply developed games with cool mechanics that can become very addictive and make a tidy profit. I can see why people would be upset with that.

I will say, at the moment, looking at peoples radars that Darksiders 2 is out next week and there is very, very little fanfare or anticipation from any of the websites. "Hotly anticipated" lists are missing the game, which always bodes poor sales.

Darksiders 2 is 27th on this very long list of preorders. I don't know how accurate Play's charts are, but IIRC they are very popular and their preorder chart isn't that far off the truth. It's up against Sleeping Dogs and Fall of Cybertron. Their stupid UK release date is not helping matters.

I wonder how much THQ is pinning on Darksiders 2.

EDIT: Amazon is looking a bit healthier. 11. It's still behind sleeping dogs however.

Why on earth is it releasing on the 21st? Surely, or all things, if its releasing on a Tuesday, why not the same week as the US release?!

[Gorb]

Sod knows. I have long since ceased to have any faith in THQ scheduling and marketing, despite the excellent people we know from THQ UK.

[Shuma]

Who exactly is criticising them Hirm and why can't they see that such a market is completely superfluous for a publisher that can't even publish games at the moment?

I guess this is relevant, but, Nintendo's investors have been pushing nintendo for years to abandon the console market and just make games for phones. You know, even though the Wii sold like hotcakes.

[gorays]

So its offical, relic recectly started working on a new game, and I think its Dawn of War 3.

http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/da...l_studios.html

[Hirmetrium]

As much as I want it to be DOW3, I just don't want another free to play game. Those things are shitty, massive money sinks. I cannot bring myself to buy any sort of pack for any game at the moment because you are basically paying for a bonus for the first few days - and if you can't play, your losing out.

There's some silly speculation in that article. Why the hell would Relic be pre-producing a third COH game already, when this one hasn't even released? The second one isn't even done. Why would you sideline the man who made assassins creed, Ubi's license to print money at the moment? THQ should be giving him free reign.

Assuming each studio has the capacity to make two games at once still, Volition is working on Saint's 4 and something else to replace Red Faction, Vigil has just done Darksiders 2 and is working on an FPS AND Dark Millennium (with Relic still?), and Montreal is up to something (likely something big). Relic sounds like its just finished finalizing the Essence 3.0 engine, and is now going to work on a new game with it. Most definitely DOW3, alongside COH2.

I will add one last point - Rubin seems to be having a very positive impact on the company, after that disastrous Verge interview (where he was misquoted for weeks about how he didn't like Saints Row 3 and Darksiders 2). I question some of his decisions (mobile games for one, because its foolish not to consider it a bit), and I daresay his impact will not be felt for a while (after this initial shakeup) as he starts to influence new games.

[Bowkers]

Lol that article. Seems to forget all other games other than CoH that Relic have done in the strategy arena...

[FriendlyFire]

@Hirm: I see it as a way of refocusing. They really need to have a strong foundation before spreading out again (see the uDraw fiasco). Chasing after the current trend is treacherous, as you're going after something that's inherently fickle. The Wii was one such thing, and just about only Nintendo profited from it much thanks to hardware sold at a profit and their first-party games having unparalleled knowledge of the platform and its limitations.

They know they can sell AAA PC/console games well because they've already done so in the past and the market has not dramatically changed in that regard. It's more logical to concentrate, in a time of crisis, on stuff that works, and then branch out into possibly more lucrative but also more risky markets.

The thing that THQ needs to fix is its rather abysmal marketing though. There really isn't a lot of hype surrounding any of its games, except perhaps CoH2, and that's largely due to the fact Relic is revered as a RTS developer.