Free Weekend?

[Demonic Spoon]

Right then, I think we all know that the Space Marine multiplayer community is rather small. It was never huge to begin with any the early bugs and whatnot scared people off.

Has Relic considered doing a free weekend through Steam? Unlock all multiplayer maps and modes, including DLC, for everyone. Existing players may have reason to purchase the DLCs, and people who have never considered it would get to try it out. It'd be a shame to see SM die so soon after release - relic needs to do something to get the community going again.


Thoughts?

[Gorb]

Getting tired of people claiming the game is dying/dead. 938 players seen today, which is consistent of the "doom, gloom, game is dying" figures people have been posting for several weeks/a few months now (IIRC it's been around 1,000 for some time?). Sure, that's not a high number at all. But you can't argue that the game is dying simply because it isn't mainstream popular.

Not that a free weekend isn't a good idea (it's never a bad idea ) but I would also think that the DLC wouldn't go "free" for it's duration. Maybe it'd be a good marketing gimmick, I don't know. I feel/fear that the 40k brand doesn't have the exposure within the FPS market required to actually make an impact.

[Demonic Spoon]

Getting tired of people claiming the game is dying/dead. 938 players seen today, which is consistent of the "doom, gloom, game is dying" figures people have been posting for several weeks/a few months now (IIRC it's been around 1,000 for some time?). Sure, that's not a high number at all. But you can't argue that the game is dying simply because it isn't mainstream popular.

When I get online during East Cost primetime and have to spend a bunch of time jumping between game modes trying to find an actual game (and then when I do find a game, it's people clearly in a smattering of different geographical locations going by the pings) then its population is not nearly as high as it needs to be. It's barely worth my time getting on and trying to get a game right now.

Last night a friend and I quit out at about midnight and went to play Magicka instead because, again, we could not find a game.

I feel/fear that the 40k brand doesn't have the exposure within the FPS market required to actually make an impact.

SM's relative lack of population has little to do with the 40K IP.

[Gorb]

Well I wouldn't know the real reason for the apparent lack of popularity, hence why I said "I feel/fear"

Sucks to hear that you have issues getting games. I'm guessing you primarily play Versus (Exterminatus is p. easy to do with a few friends)? Again, free weekends are a good idea but I don't think THQ (or whomever is responsible) would offer the DLC content for that time as well.

[dirtyprotest]

...Has Relic considered doing a free weekend through Steam? ...

add playstation store & xbox live. good idea, injects enthusiasm.
MIght just be me but I've found any 8v8 games harder to find weekend 28-29 jan, contrary to CU dlc weekend, 8v8 matches seemed a-poppin.
any idea to pump up 8v8 games is going to improve gamer experience.

[Demonic Spoon]

Sucks to hear that you have issues getting games. I'm guessing you primarily play Versus (Exterminatus is p. easy to do with a few friends)? Again, free weekends are a good idea but I don't think THQ (or whomever is responsible) would offer the DLC content for that time as well.

Why would they be averse to giving away the map/game mode DLCs for a weekend? Are people going to play through Dreadnought Assault in a weekend and then decide "Hmm, nope I will never want to play in this game mode or on any of these maps again"?


Regardless, the state of SM is pretty awful. I don't own either of the DLCs, not because I'm not interested in owning them, but because I feel like that if I have trouble finding a game NOW, in a month it'll be even harder, and buying multiplayer DLC is worthless if no one else is playing it.

add playstation store & xbox live. good idea, injects enthusiasm.
MIght just be me but I've found any 8v8 games harder to find weekend 28-29 jan, contrary to CU dlc weekend, 8v8 matches seemed a-poppin.
any idea to pump up 8v8 games is going to improve gamer experience.

Do Sony/Microsoft even allow/have a mechanism for free weekends? If so, then sure...but I haven't ever heard of them.

[Pseudonymn]

I can't resist playing devil's advocate, it seems...

Gorb, what is it exactly about the argument that the game isn't dying that sets you and others off in the way that it does? Yes, you have a point, the numbers stand pat at ~950 most of the time. But nobody would argue that someone suffering from anorexia is living healthily or express optimism over their chances for survival over the long term. And yet this is pretty much exactly what we get from the Relic apologists whenever someone expresses pessimism over SM's population concerns. You may not like the wording used, but they are not invalid observations. And judging from other comments being made, the problem is not limited to just PC connections to Steam but has become systemic to across all platforms. At best SM's population is anemic. At worst, it's on its death bed and wouldn't take much to finally nudge it over the edge. You have to admit it, even to yourself.

So again, I have to ask, is it denial? Or do you make the argument merely for the sake of argument? Do the semantics really bother you that much? Or do you honestly believe that ~950 concurrent Steam connections for a 4.5 month old game, not all of which can be verified as playing MP by the way, should not be cause for concern?

[dirtyprotest]

...I feel like that if I have trouble finding a game NOW, in a month it'll be even harder...

Good point.
On xbox most populated sessions are prob STG classic rotation, though sessions taking longer to fill.
One issue to improve the situation , would be the removal of random dlc maps appearing in classic rotation - kicking half the players.
8v8's are the bottom line for me. Clearing obstacles to that goal would keep this game chugging along.

BTW i imagine psn & xbox have their claws firmly on DLC revenues, free weekend might be a tough call.

[Gorb]

Pseudonym: what is your definition of "anaemic" for a computer game with no established community/that isn't a successor of a popular franchise? You are declaring that as a fact when it is in fact merely your opinion. Before you used to use the numeric population of ~950 as an indication that the game is/was dying. Now, week and months on, the game still has that stable population.

That doesn't mean the game is dying. It doesn't mean the game is dead. It means the population is stable; low in comparison to a lot of games out there, but stable.

What I'm seeing in your post isn't "devil's advocate". It's "my facts are right and you are in denial if you think otherwise". Your opinion is not right.

Addendum: and yet again, I raise the point that there are two other communities that play this game. XBL and PSN, both of whom you constantly fail to mention or recognise, presumably because they throw a spanner in your repetitive arguments

@Demonic Spoon: I have no issues getting Exterminatus games (and by extension, Chaos Unleashed), simply because all it takes is three Steam friends. I can't speak for Dreadnought Assault because I haven't purchased it (money issues).

Your refusal to purchase is entirely your prerogative and I can't fault that, however I can't help but think the "I can't find games so I won't buy a game mode, then watch people complaining about the game mode because nobody can find games" a tad cyclic/self-causing

With regards to "why would they be averse" - they have to deal with three types of online stores, two of which (as has been mentioned) may not have the correct functionality (or business options) in place to allow such a sale. Of course, it's nice for us Steam folks to get free stuff for a weekend, but this isn't a primarily a Steam game. It isn't even primarily a PC game (remember how long people thought it was a console-only title for?).

[Liljagare]

*cough* And the PSN side of things is purdy much gone *poof* too.. Don't have a xbox so can't say anything about that portion!

[Shuma]

Addendum: and yet again, I raise the point that there are two other communities that play this game. XBL and PSN, both of whom you constantly fail to mention or recognise, presumably because they throw a spanner in your repetitive arguments

There's 2 people in this thread saying that the Xbox and PS3 communities are also dead, and if people don't bring those up is because we have no numbers of how many people are playing it on the consoles.

[ph03nIXx]

@Spoon

Well, somehow they heard you - but the message got distorted on the way. Free weekend for Retri ;-) this weekend + 66% off SM DLC...

[Gorb]

@Shuma: "games are harder to find", for me at least, does not translate to "game is dead". Of course, that's a personal measure

Again, my view on how populous the game is is as subjective as anybody's. Hence why I tend to avoid statements such as "I find games easily/I don't think the game is dead", and debate actual playing statistics found on Steam.

Certainly, I think you've used the "950 players means the game is dying before" - if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me - but as a person who is disappointed by SM, could you expand on what you think of the apparently-stable (albeit low) population of the game? This isn't an invitation to say what you think lead to this, given that we've all done that several times before (); I'm just intrigued as to how 950 players a month or two ago and 950 players now indicates that the game is "dying".

[Adonis]

There's 2 people in this thread saying that the Xbox and PS3 communities are also dead, and if people don't bring those up is because we have no numbers of how many people are playing it on the consoles.

Gorb's point is that people have been consistently basing their points and arguments solely on PC activity. The game is on three platforms, yet people keep giving the impression that the game is dead all across the board without taking into account that not everyone on here is playing the game on PC.

Bottom line: if you're going to post stats and the like, include stats from all three platforms and not just the version you're rocking.

[dirtyprotest]

@Spoon
Well, somehow they heard you - but the message got distorted on the way... 66% off SM DLC...

If it's true, Steam leads the way, hopefully PSN XBox follow suit.
not resolving party pooping premium maps on classic rotations, nonetheless a positive move.
Tandem a few free weekends with 66% discount, should see some casual gamers bite.

[Gorb]

On the upside, Chaos Unleashed is also 66% off (sadly, Dreadnought Assault and the new DLC packs aren't, but they are brand-new); £2.20 is fantastic value to persuade your friends with!

[Demonic Spoon]

Pseudonym: what is your definition of "anaemic" for a computer game with no established community/that isn't a successor of a popular franchise? You are declaring that as a fact when it is in fact merely your opinion. Before you used to use the numeric population of ~950 as an indication that the game is/was dying. Now, week and months on, the game still has that stable population.

That doesn't mean the game is dying. It doesn't mean the game is dead. It means the population is stable; low in comparison to a lot of games out there, but stable.

Okay, fine. It has a steady population that needs to be increasing to support Relic's increasing segmentation of the community through DLCs. 950 would be a fine number if I could log in and be reasonably confident that I could get a game, but it apparently isn't all of the time. While the fact that the population has remained steady is great to hear (also tempts me to grab Dreadnought assault...)

950 is still, by the way, rather low for what it could be. Space Marine scared away lots of people during the beginning for the netcode problems, which appear to be mostly fixed (at least, I see laggy games less often than I used to), but the base gameplay itself is fantastically fun. It could be higher. A lot higher. Hence, the suggestion for a free weekend.

@Demonic Spoon: I have no issues getting Exterminatus games (and by extension, Chaos Unleashed), simply because all it takes is three Steam friends. I can't speak for Dreadnought Assault because I haven't purchased it (money issues).

Your refusal to purchase is entirely your prerogative and I can't fault that, however I can't help but think the "I can't find games so I won't buy a game mode, then watch people complaining about the game mode because nobody can find games" a tad cyclic/self-causing

That's fantastic that you don't have trouble getting Exterminatus games, but that is hardly relevant at all to those of us who like Versus.

The point behind not buying the DLC was that I can't guarantee that there's any more people playing the DLC than there are playing the base game, and that if the player population is subsiding, I won't get much use out of it.

[Gorb]

My counterpoint was that, at the very least, Chaos Unleashed was worth the price. More now than ever with the sale

I also support the idea of a free weekend. My only objection was the expectation for unlocked DLC content. I don't think I've ever seen such a free event, even on Steam.

[Mac_Bug]

giving away free DLC for a weekend presents all sort of problems for games in general because the assumption is always you won't lose access to it at a later time (for example, if your save game is in the middle of a DLC mission). For MP only DLC that SM has it's probably doable though.

[dirtyprotest]

.... For MP only DLC that SM has it's probably doable though....

Would it be it be more of a struggle on console platforms than Steam?

A good multiplayer experience should maintain a healthy stack of 8v8 sessions.
freebies & discounts go some way to keeping current population sweet (might attract some new customers & bring back some old ones).

[fuggles]

If they do it then it might be worth disabling SP. I bought space marine in a moment of weakness as I was still light headed over having played an actual demo of something and everyone here was all psyched about the game. Bought it, quite enjoyed it I suppose, combat is crap and for this main reason I will never replay the SP campaign. Maybe if some campaign DLC with eldar or something comes out that breaks up the monotony then I would pop back in, but personally I was hoping for something more akin to Darksiders in terms of combat.

Quick google suggests that Xbox360 population is fine, PS3 is okay as long as you don't want to play Chaos Unreleased or whatnot as it would seem not many play with this. Both report that mw3 and battlefield have ganked the population. Sadly SM is relying a lot on the licence to carry it against the dedicated multiplayer games of last year, however if the population on PC is as bad as all that then it sounds like they have nothing to lose, although if THQ are in the brown stuff then a heavy discount on the game and DLC would be better I guess.

Just think, if steam let you play any game for free for an hour or two, then this wouldn't be an issue, man, I wish steam would do that.

[Dimension]

My experience is that there is always some seize ground classic and DA going on, as well as dreadnought assault. However, if you want to play seize ground on chaos unleashed, you're out of luck. Same thing happens if you want to play anything but seize ground. I haven't had a CTF game in more than a week, and I've never once had the opportunity to try out the new map control mode that was enabled with DA. Exterminatus seems fine.

So yeah, I don't ahve trouble getting games, but its somewhat limited as to which modes and rotations I can play...

[Uncle Benny]

Already had a smaller player base due to host troubles, finding games and such. Then they split the player base with paid game modes / maps. I don't have PS, but I have SM on PC & XBox, and I'm telling you that it's a total toss-up if I can find a game or not, between both systems.
Basically, it's come down to this:
I sit down to play a game, probably have to check through all 3 different modes. Even if I find a game, most likely it's a suck-all lagfest and unplayable. So, then I'll try my other platform, go through the same thing. So, I don't get to play when I want to, I can only play when the stars are aligned... You think that's acceptable? Seriously?

I love the fact that we have additional content, I have purchased all SM DLC on Steam except for Dreadnought Assault (but I will soon! ), and most of it on XBox. I'm just completely sick and tired of being treated like crap because I have a valid complaint about performance. I don't have an issue with either Gorb or Pseudonym in anything else but the fact that any damned thread that pops up about Space Marine, whether pro, con, or neutral, I see (in either order) Gorb defending, Pseudonym attacking, back and forth. This is what the problem seems to be with Space Marine, the average player has been drowned out by the Defenders and the Attackers. Any positive comment gets you lumped in with the Defenders, and if you say anything negative, no matter how you say it, you're just another Attacker and therefore your opinion is null. Seriously, you guys (Dolts/Relic/THQ) need to get off this kick of filing all comments "Bitch Rant" or "Glowing Review".

I love Space Marines graphics, visuals, gameplay, even the sound is spectacular! The MP weapon options and perks, the armour customization, I absolutely love it. I do not like the split player base, and I utterly hate the shitty matchmaking and non-sensical host selection/migration. I understand that Relic isn't vastly experienced with this genre, but as a business, they don't get to answer complaints with excuses. The fact that they keep releasing paid DLC, while failing to address the continuing issues that have plagued SM's playability from the start, just underscores why we, the relatively silent majority, feel unheard and unappreciated.

I'm sorry for the long rant, but I'm just so tired of seeing the same arguments from the same people over the same things. No, the game is not dead, but it does have a player base equal to or less that of Retribution, a game that came out over six months prior, even after the addition of new game modes and new content.

So, please, stop trying to Attack or Defend, and just Understand. I love the game, but I can't give any criticism (or even positive feedback!) if my voice (and many others) are drowned out by either one group of people who will never acknowledge that the complaints are valid, or the other group that just won't ever be satisfied.
___________________________________

To reiterate, Pseudonym, I don't really know you, but don't have any problem with you. Gorb, you're totally cool with me - in fact, I like your posts on any subject except Space Marine . I just used you guys as examples, because you are honestly two of the best examples of the two most visibly "factions" in regards to SM. Don't hate me because I'm beautiful...
___________________________________

Back OT, free DLC is a no-way-Jose, especially since you can already preview Armour Sets in Customizer, and the paid modes/maps pretty much sell themselves as long as you already play the game. I think a 66% discount on a game that is less than 6 months old (and the majority of its DLC) is already quite the draw, yes?

Better yet, GIVE US DISPLAYED STATISTICS so we can see how many players are in each mode, so we don't have to be freaking detectives in order to find a game!!!
That's my new soapbox, natch.

[Gorb]

As another counterpoint, it'd be nice if you stopped lumping me in with the "defender" group and actually pay attention to the points made. I have conceded numerous suggestions and I have even made some of my own. No game is perfect, I'm not here trying to pretend Space Marine is some kind of perfect FPS game which we should all aspire to play because it is That Amazing.

All I do is attempt to counter the respective points made by others, including their assumptions - while (attempting to) refrain from making assumptions of my own.

I don't think I've ever "treated you like crap", nor have I seen others (even from the "attacking" side) treat you like crap. You might be making a point, a stand or whatever, but you are glossing over what is actually being discussed. Nor have I ever said that it is acceptable that you have trouble finding stable games. I have never said that.

[Uncle Benny]

I don't think I've ever "treated you like crap", nor have I seen others (even from the "attacking" side) treat you like crap. You might be making a point, a stand or whatever, but you are glossing over what is actually being discussed. Nor have I ever said that it is acceptable that you have trouble finding stable games. I have never said that.

Gorb, I have never felt that you treated me, or anyone else on any of the other boards I've seen you on, with any disrespect. In fact, I never said anything about people on the RN forums being rude or hateful, I just used you guys as examples. Please understand, I don't think you're a ranting fanboy, although it is sometimes fun to see smoke come out your ears when you get labeled that way While you do indeed allow that there are issues that need to be addressed, your posts are consistently defensive; even while agreeing on the existence of issues, your posts do honestly tend to minimize the severity of those issues. I truly did not mean to imply that you were one of the truly douchey "STFU, SM is awesome, UR just n00b" crew, I do apologize for giving that impression. I was more trying to compare your stance to Pseudonym's, which is pretty much:
Pseudonym: "I really like SM, but it's been completely FUBAR'd."
Gorb: "There are some problems, but it's not that bad as all that."

Sheesh, at least Pseudo made it easy on me:

can't resist playing devil's advocate, it seems...

In any case Gorb, the feeling of disrespect and dismissal I get is not from you, or anyone on these boards, but the SM community in general (as well as the general feeling I get from devs/pubs!). Let me again apologize for unintentionally painting you with such a frayed, musty, sticky brush as the true extremists.
I really don't have anything against you, I honestly think well of you, as well as most of the other oddballs, nincompoops and neer-do-wells that haunt these boards.
Forgiveness?

[Gorb]

Taken to PM

r.e. the state of the game - it is everyone's own prerogative to feel however they feel about the game. The reason why I get caught up defending it, barring my love for all things Relic, is that I have had a genuinely positive experience with Space Marine. However, I realise that people may be dissatisfied with Space Marine because they haven't had a positive experience - for example, Pseudonym's sound stuttering that I have been attempting to help diagnose via PM. Connectivity issues with host migration (or mainly selection) as well, particularly for those in Australia or other far-flung places (that have to pay more for the game itself!).

For me, it's little-to-no lag, acceptable Matchmaking waiting times (for a comparison, I play a game with 50,000 international players at any one time - Heroes of Newerth - and it still can take several minutes to find a game that is starting for me to join. Space Marine has around 1,000 players at any one time (if that) and I still find games in around 5 minutes. That's impressive, at least to me) and obviously a beautiful, immersive game that (for me) captures the feel of being a Space Marine perfectly.

Even though the Campaign is straightforward, I love the feeling of blowing Orks into giblets that much I'm genuinely having fun trying to farm some of the more annoying achievements (complete Part 1 on Hard without dying or restarting - nearly did it last night but those damn Bomb Squiqs killed me ) - this personal enjoyment of the game (that others may not share) is what drives me to defend the state of the game. Because for me, this is pretty much everything Space Marine should have been (mroe content is always nice, but I enjoy the finished product nonetheless). Stuff like Chaos Unleashed genuinely makes me squeeeee as well, because it's awesome.