Panzer Elite (Me) vs Brit (Noob game)

[TNTRandSGJ]

Hey guys, noob here.

I played this match against a guy I've known for a little bit and he was Brit and I do tend to have a lot of problems with Brits cause they are very aggresive, and I get my 3 PG squads out to start capping, and I always panic when they send all their units up near my base and be really aggresive.

And really from then on once he gets a light tank it pushes my guys back to the base, but luckily I remembered to grab an AT HT and manage to just about take it out, but then he brings some other units and takes it out.

I decide to go with Logistik because I know that I'll need to increase my fuel supply cause all Brits keep my points really low, so I get the Scout Car upgrade and stick it on 10 fuel which does help a bit, gives me a nice fuel boost.

But from then on he just puts an AT implacement down and so I can't really get any form of tank out cause implacements are just amazing against them. Then when I try to push with Infantry it just gets cut down by the Light Tanks cause they have that really amazing shotgun thing that just wipes me out.

The rest of the match is pretty pointless, I stop trying and just wait to get the Panther support group, cause I've never actually used them before, and they were ok, but again, implacements are just impossible to take out, plus the fact that he has 10 tanks by this time, and the Panthers are just helpless.

And then me and him have a funny text battle in chat cause he offensive GG's me! lol, he's cool though.

So yeah, any tips you guys got for me?

Main points I'm having a huge problems on are:

1. If the opponent is very aggressive and takes points that are close to my base, I start to panic and don't know what to do.

2. If he builds Light Tanks, Infantry are hopeless because of the shotgun ability, and Light ATs are OK, but still don't really do enough damage and they're very fragile.

3. AT and other implacements are too good for any of my tanks and infantry, can't bring them down, and if I do it's at a huge cost to my units.

Thanks a lot!!!

[hecubus23]

I'm watching right now so I'll offer something of a running commentary.

When he began pushing toward your base with his infantry, Kettenkrads should have run around behind and cut off his territory. Instead of having both of them capture the right side, let one do that while the other starts de-capping his territory. The Kettens are fast and should be able to out-capture and outrun the Brit infantry any day. Don't be afraid to be aggressive with them, they have a very long sight range so they can see any threats coming and get out fast if they need to. If units respond to them, just run off and go cap something else. Even if you can't finish capturing a sector, you should at least be able to de-cap it so it's not benefiting your opponent.

A Kampfgruppe Kompanie instead of Logistik would have been a good idea for the first building, as a mortar or even infantry halftrack would have done wonders to support your PGs and made it very difficult for him to continue capturing or building. Instead of worrying about trying to "OP" a sector with the scout car, use your forces to keep his tied up in combat while your Kettenkrads get you control of the map, or at the very least wreak havoc on his supply chain. You'll get more fuel naturally that way anyway.

Good use of the incendiary grenades to force him out of the trench!

Once again, kampfgruppe kompanie for panzerschreks will make quick work of the Stuart. The AT HT is great for crippling it so the schreks can finish it off, but you can see how long it took for the AT HT alone to actually bring it down.

Around 12:50 I see three PG units running over to capture one strat point while two Kettenkrads sit idle. Meanwhile, your AT HT is unsupported and quickly eliminated by PIAT sappers and a Stuart. Use your Kettenkrad to reconnect that point (or get the scout car on the fuel mobile and have it capture, then go back to camping the fuel) and use your infantry to fight. Once again, around 14:25 those three units are recapping the fuel by your base while two Kettens sit in the base and sappers cut off another point. Cap the fuel with the kettens, and use your PGs to drive the sappers off.

It was effectively over by the time the Panthers came out. They did good work mopping up the armor and field support trucks, but he drew you right into his 17 pounder by moving his HQ truck. It looked like you were moving both tanks as one. Keep in mind that AT emplacement has a limited firing arc, you should be able to move at least one of the tanks around it before he can re-face it. Don't try to go toe-to-toe with it, especially when he's got enough munitions to lean on the armor-piercing rounds cooldown.

"Come at me bro." Well, he doesn't need to at that point. You need to come at him, he's in control of the map. The third(!) panther battlegroup did an admirable job driving the Churchills out of your base, but you had no follow-up. It really comes down to not being aggressive enough at the start. Your opponent did an admirable job pressuring early, but PE cannot lay back and hope to win. Their game depends on being quick and denying the opponent's resources. Watch how he captures when he senses the advantage. He pushes for the cut-off points first, denying you the income of everything connected to them. He can then back-cap at his leisure. That's how you need to play as PE out of the gate.

The best advice I've ever seen here on playing PE is embodied in this quote from BlackOmne, and it made a huge difference in my games with them. (This is a recent quote, but I know I read this strategy here before, apologies if I'm attributing its origins wrong).

Send your starting ket to cap the nearest medium/high resource sector (preferrably fuel) to the Allied side that it can do so safely OR cap a cut-off strat sector if the map has one. Send your pgrens to immediately (before they building a building) guard those sectors the first ket caps - they should lurk near the points and only attack after an opposing unit begins to cap the sector to maximize when the enemy unit is vulnerable. Build a second ket after building at least two pgrens and send it to beginning connecting fuel sectors to your bases and work it toward the first ket, which should continue to cap forward sectors near the enemy base (and thereby doubling capping time for the enemy units). Meanwhile, you can build the first PE building with your third or fourth pgren. That's being hyperaggressive with the PE.

Extrapolate this philosophy throughout the game. Especially against the British, this approach of harassment and denial of resources should keep him from digging in. If you keep the pressure on, he shouldn't have time or resources to get that emplacement-wall going.

[TNTRandSGJ]

Wow that's some great advice hecubus23, thanks a lot man.

Ok so I'm gonna write a checklist here:

1. Always keep Kettenkrads capturing sectors, try and get behind the opponent if he's very aggressive. And just try and decap as much as possible if he's chasing the Kettenkrad.

2. Use units (PGs, Infantry HT and Mortar HT) to try and lure him into a spot, so that my Kettenkrads can sweep around behind his units and cap the map.

3. Keep using Incendiary Grenades if he uses a lot of trenches.

4. Get Panzershrek upgrade and use AT HT to treadbreak on Stuart Light Tanks, then move in with AT infantry. I have a question about this: What do I do if he uses the shotgun ability on my AT infantry? Do I just retreat and try again?

5. Use Kettenkrads to capture, and not PGs. Use PGs to fight!

6. Be really aggressive as PE, and I will use that quote from BlackOmne!

Thank you sir!

I'll probably upload a couple more replays soon with these ideas incorporated into my play, I won't bother uploading any if I forget to do something which you've mentioned. Only if I've done everything you've said and I still lose, then I'll upload a new replay, but hopefully I'll win erry game!

[hecubus23]

4. Get Panzershrek upgrade and use AT HT to treadbreak on Stuart Light Tanks, then move in with AT infantry. I have a question about this: What do I do if he uses the shotgun ability on my AT infantry? Do I just retreat and try again?

The best insurance against it is not to bunch up your squads. If you're approaching a crippled tank with two 'schreck squads, split them up and go around either side. He won't be able to hit both of them with the canister shot. It has a long cooldown so even if he gets one you'll be able to take it out with the other before he can use it again. It's also very costly munitions-wise (75 muni each use I believe), so if you've had success denying his access to munitions, he may not be able to use it at all. You can also keep your squads at long range, where they'll be in less danger from it. Panzerschrecks are less accurate at longer range, so be prepared for missed shots, but if the tank's crippled it's not going to get away. Of course, if you have the luxury, feel free to annihilate it with a Marder at extreme long range. If you have something to spot for it, the Marder can hit most things from well outside their firing ranges.

Don't feel like you have to try to hit every point on your checklist in games you play, flexibility and responding to what comes up are a big part of any game. None of it is hard and fast rules, I'm just trying to offer guidelines for what might have worked better in the circumstances we saw in that game. Keep playing, keep having fun, and you'll get a feel for what works against what. If something doesn't work, try a different approach.

I'm attaching a replay using the hyper-aggressive opening outlined in BlackOmne's quote against the Brits on that same map. It's against the AI, which unfortunately plays the Brits very poorly, but it should at least give you an idea for how the opening plays out in practice.

[TNTRandSGJ]

Ok I'll use that strategy for the light tanks, thank you

I just have a question or two:

Say I do an opening of 1 Kettenkrad, 3 PEG's (1 G43 upgrade), and I want to get out an AC ASAP, and all my PG's have to retreat back to base for whatever reason, is it better to build the Logitik/Kampfgruppe Kompanie and then Panzer-Jaeger Kommand with all 3 PG squads, or should I send out 2 of them back to harrassing the enemy? Or even just one squad? I'm just wondering whether it's best to always keep the enemy at bay or whether to get that AC as quickly as humanly possible by using all PG's squads to build the buildings.

Also, are PE a reactionary army? Should you always wait for your opponent to build whatever he wants, and THEN you react, or should you always try to take control of the game and make your opponent react to what you do?

What I've decided to do is use the same build for every game, even though it won't work all the time, I will eventually see what it does and does not work against and I can adapt my playstyle accordingly.

Pretty much just going for (if it's a big map 1 Kettenkrad, 3 PG's with 1 G43 upgrade, Kampfgruppe Kompanie, if he has MGs/Mortars or early implacements I'll grab a Mortar HT, Panzer-jaeger, AC, Panzershreks, PG squad and upgrade 2 squads with Shreks, one squad with MP44. And then I kind of try to react to what they bring out. This is when I normally pick the doctrine, if they go tanks I'll go Tank Destroyer to get Hetzer, and I get the repair upgrade for my troops. And then pretty much try and get as many upgrades as I can whilst still being able to reinforce my troops. I've only done this for 2 games and it's worked pretty good, granted my opponents weren't very good, but I felt with this strat I finish the game much earlier and it makes the game for me a lot easier cause I know exactly what I'm going to build, regardless of what the enemy brings out as it has good AT and good AI mixture.

And thanks for the replay! Gonna check it out now

[psykopatsak]

@reactonary: I prefer to be the one holding the initiative, and I think that the winner, regardless of army, is the one holding the initiative. If you're reactionary, you are destined to be just to late all the time, and it's easy for the one holding the initiative to predict what you're about to do. I had a few old replays for illustrating this purpose [now lost] where I, despite never playing brit in auto match 1v1, completely owned PE players (PE being my main army) as I could predict what they're up to all the time. Thus, I built a counter, and already while building that unit, I started preparing to get out that unit to counter his counter.

for example: If I built a Stuart to push away all his light viechles to his base and take out his base defence, I would fast tech to a firefly or get PIATs to take out that hetzer I knew was coming up (As I had denied fuel, no shrek or marder).

If you on the other hand play reactionary, and wait until you see that first tank coming to prepare your anti-tank, then you're too late and will have lost the momentum on the field.

[TNTRandSGJ]

Ok thanks psykopatsak, I've been doing what you said and taking control of the game.

I just have a question on how to deal with point harrass.

Say it's early game and I don't have a whole lot of mobility (AC), and I'm against USA, which are obviously great at capturing every point on the map all the time. Do I split my Panzer grenadiers up and take a couple of squads to deal with a Riflemen squad? And one squad to deal with Engineer squad? Or should I keep all my PG's together at all times and just slowly make my way to each point that the American is harrassing?

Gotta say I've been beating Brits more than Americans now because I'm trying to be ultra aggressive and using my Kettenkrad to capture the points whilst my PG's fight. But with American players they tend to split up their forces really well and capture really awkward points that are either too far away or they capture SP that cut all my resources off when all my PG's are too aggressive and they manage to slip an engineer squad through.

I've seen PE replays and they kind of split their PGs up, but they keep them close enough that they can leave 1 PG squad on their own to hold off a couple of Riflemen squads, but a few seconds later all the other PGs come for reinforcements and they manage to push the riflemen back. But I can't really work out how they do it. I will either spread them out too much or keep them too bundled up, the Pro's manage to get just the right amount of length, which is amazing.

[psykopatsak]

I try to keep my Pgrens rather centralised, and judging on the threat that captures points. If it's just a lone squad of engineers, a single squad or AC or whatever (newly repaired tank taking a little detour, etc). However, when there are a single riflemen sqd, you need to keep a backup if it would appear they are more than one.

Good players often change where they will commit their forces to keep the initiative. It's when this happens that you will have to decide wether to press your own advance or stop his, which option will benefit you the most, relative to him? Armoured cars are great but they're vulnerable to sticky bombs. However, lately it seems that infantry are vulnerable to grenades...

I will often have some part of main force that I will drive around whacking these harassing froces - as it's a strong force, it can kill off the harrassers pretty quickly, and as long as it's decently mobile as well (which it usually is, being PE) you can kill the squads one at a time, fast.

But a good american player is tough to beat as PE. I usually go with many kettens or even scout cars, and fieldcraft, to let my grenadiers capture stuff when they've forced the riflemen to retreat. If you can hold on to the fuel, you can get the upgrades to allow you to effectively fight. Kampfgruppe, Def operations, 1, preferably 2 marders, fieldcraft, repair and panzer IV are all those juicy stuff that we want but it costs so much fuel just to counter upgraded riflemen spam.

[Q77]

Yep, should have been more over the map IMO. I always go double ketten too against Brits (with some exceptions) so thats good for harrassing. But once he has a trench up early game, leave it alone. It will just stall you and kill your units and, in this case, makes you go for incendiary nades.
I'd recommend Kampfgruppe too. He didnt seem to care much about his units since he lost 2 BC's early game meaning you could have the upperhand pretty quick.
I mostly go for shrecks in HT's and end the game quick. This was a popular strat in the old patches but it still works nicely (if you get there fast). 2 HT's will quickly supress even brits and meanwhile you are upgrading shrecks and kill his trucks while reinforcing - and most dont even expect it. Even if you fail to kill him quickly it will keep him busy saving his base and meanwhile you can tech up.